McCain has a very detailed plan of leadership, his extensive plan varies from domestic to world affairs. His plan does not get much play in the media. His attacks of Obama's plan, character, and lack of experience get more play because of the strong sensitivity to any negativity towards Obama.

[/quote

Oh so it's not because the media isn't interested then? It's only because they figure Obama's supporters are all sensitive and they want to push that buttion?

You have no intention of voting for Obama so wouldn't it be better for you to enlighten the posters on McCain's plan instead of trying to force them into this game of what is Obama's plan? It seems that if you provided them with food for thought that would be more positive than this back and forth over he has no plan or how will his plan work? Maybe they'd disagree with his plan but at least you would have put it out there instead of trying to put them on the defensive about Obama.

Even if your intentions are pure, since you find Obama's supporters sensitive then you are knowingly attempting to provoke them under the guise of having a debate. That's not a nice thing to do and I'm not saying you ought to be nice but really....... And you can't feign ignorance any longer since I've just pointed it out to you.

If they want to call him Mc anything but his name then they should call him McFinger on the trigger.

At the end of the day there are a host of people who want to see that invasion turned occupation ended, and the debt it has created eliminated. McCain wants to continue the occupation, start some more invasions aka wars and continue the economic stimulus packages. This would mean that China would have to dig deeper to lend out some more money to this super power and you think Europe won't find the mighty USA a bit of a joke then.

And we are not a joke now?

The rest of the world looks at our foreign policy and just shakes their collective heads.

A shame, really.

Without a universal healthcare program to pay for along with many other wasteful government being eliminated through McCain's plan, it will free us up to fight abroad to ensure our safety from the threat of terrorism. Obama's plan to turn tail and run and reduce millitary spending WILL definitely make us a joke. That's not the message that I would like us to send to the resurgent Russians.

I'm not the right person to share the threat of terrorism with simply because what is going on now has zero to do with terrorism and is based on fabrication anyway. Governing by terror is lame.

I believe Obama wants military to be deployed in Afgahnistan which is where the targeted groups have relocated.

Russia is not going to worry about the depleted military since it's obvious the occupation is taking its toll. Pulling back will allow some form of regeneration along with saving some money.

Anyway I am not going to engage in a debate over the military with you since I already know that we are worlds apart on what needs to happen and I would only be wasting my poor typing skills at this piont so I agree to disagree with you on this.

Oh so it's not because the media isn't interested then? It's only because they figure Obama's supporters are all sensitive and they want to push that buttion?

You have no intention of voting for Obama so wouldn't it be better for you to enlighten the posters on McCain's plan instead of trying to force them into this game of what is Obama's plan? It seems that if you provided them with food for thought that would be more positive than this back and forth over he has no plan or how will his plan work? Maybe they'd disagree with his plan but at least you would have put it out there instead of trying to put them on the defensive about Obama.

Even if your intentions are pure, since you find Obama's supporters sensitive then you are knowingly attempting to provoke them under the guise of having a debate. That's not a nice thing to do and I'm not saying you ought to be nice but really....... And you can't feign ignorance any longer since I've just pointed it out to you.

I'm not sure what the media's reasoning is behind not covering McCain's agenda. I know that the media should be interested in every aspect of the campaign. They are foremost interested in increasing their ratings. Negative attacks towards Obama are far more entertaining, especially when Obama supporters have shown a great deal of sensitivity towards them. The majority of the posters on this board serve as a microcosm of that effect.

Respectfully, Wales2004, I don't think it is your place to try to manage the way that I approach my comments.

My main focus on this board is to understand WHY people are so enthrawed with Obama. Getting to the meat of the matter is like pulling teeth. Obama supporters seem to be very vague and secretive about the reasonings behind their support. I've tried to figure out if it has something to do with his plans. Unfortunately, not many people can express that aspect. So I am beginning to rule that out. I would love to show details of McCain's plan, WHICH I HAVE SEVERAL TIMES IN THIS THREAD! Everytime I have thrown in tidbits of McCain's plan it has been disreguarded or completely ingnored with no comments. I have seen only rebuttals to my attack on Obama's plan. NO ONE has refuted the tidbits of McCains plan that I have posted. However, we both know that the majority of the people that post here are not interested in McCain's plan, which is why it has been overlooked.

I have been ganged up on by the majority of the people on this board. I am trying to look past that and continue to talk about the real issues and how the candidates compare on those issues. Many times along the way the conversation has strayed from that. Some have called me a joke, some have come close to calling me mean. It is only human nature for my tone to take a more harsh shape.

Edited August 31, 200817 yr by Casey008

I'm not the right person to share the threat of terrorism with simply because what is going on now has zero to do with terrorism and is based on fabrication anyway. Governing by terror is lame.

I believe Obama wants military to be deployed in Afgahnistan which is where the targeted groups have relocated.

Russia is not going to worry about the depleted military since it's obvious the occupation is taking its toll. Pulling back will allow some form of regeneration along with saving some money.

Anyway I am not going to engage in a debate over the military with you since I already know that we are worlds apart on what needs to happen and I would only be wasting my poor typing skills at this piont so I agree to disagree with you on this.

Like it or not Iraq is a strategic placement in the middle east. Terrorism is most prevalent in that area of the world. I would personally rather have our troops there rather than here combating any future attacks.

We already have troops in Afgahnistan. I'm not sure how Obama will curb spending in the war by ramping up there..

With that being said. The surge has worked, and now even the Bush admin. is talking about a time table for withdrawal. It is becoming a mute point. I believe, with McCain, that we should ALWAYS have a presence in Iraq. Maybe not the same size that it is now, but always have troops stationed there. Much like Korea, Germany, Japan, Guam...so on..

This is what McCain meant, but his words have been twisted.

Edited August 30, 200817 yr by Casey008

I'm not sure what the media's reasoning is behind not covering McCain's agenda. I know that the media should be interested in every aspect of the campaign. They are foremost interested in increasing their ratings. Negative attacks towards Obama are far more entertaining, especially when Obama supporters have shown a great deal of sensitivity towards them. The majority of the posters on this board serve as a microcosm of that effect.

Respectfully, Wales2004, I don't think it is your place to try to manage the way that I approach my comments.

My main focus on this board is to understand WHY people are so enthrawed with Obama. Getting to the meat of the matter is like pulling teeth. Obama supporters seem to be very vague and secretive about the reasonings behind their support. I've tried to figure out if it has something to do with his plans. Unfortunately, not many people can express that aspect. So I am beginning to rule that out. I would love to show details of McCain's plan, but we both know that the majority of the people that post here are not interested in that.

I have been ganged up on by the majority of the people on this board. I am trying to look past that and continue to talk about the real issues and how the candidates compare on those issues. Many times along the way the conversation has strayed from that. Some have called me a joke, some have come close to calling me mean. It is only human nature for my tone to take a more harsh shape.

I am not trying to manage the way you post. I pointed out to you what I think you are doing and even if your intentions are pure you still are aware of the effect. That makes me believe that it's an intentional attempt to provoke people and I would have stopped pursuing this angle if I found that I wasn't getting the response I desired. If your desire is to understand why people are supporting Obama and you've struck out them why insist on forcing them into explaining his plan to you. Obviously, you don't care about his plan and you just want to show that they have no reason to support him at all.

I don't see why they need to explain their reasons any more than you or anyone else needs to explain theirs. It's not going to make any sort of impact and if you're attempting to do an anthropological study on the voting habits of Obama supporters good luck with that. I don't see why it's any more fascinating to find out why people support him than why people support McCain. I'm sure he has unhappy Republicans that are going to vote for him to vote party lines as well. But I'm not you so whatever works for you..

Despite the fact that I differ with Obama ion issues. I presently support him because I believe he will timely reduce the occupation, he will be a communicative diplomatic world leader and restore some of this nation's credibility overseas, he will not govern by fear and terror, and he will work to restore the nation's economy. I also believe he will do all he can to repair this nation's educational system. The bonus is that he's an effective speaker so the State of the Union ought to be more interesting and more kids may be drawn to pay attention. And he'll be the face of hope of many children every where as well and some adults too.

Anyway I am not going to engage in a debate over the military with you since I already know that we are worlds apart on what needs to happen and I would only be wasting my poor typing skills at this piont so I agree to disagree with you on this.

So you dont want to talk specifically about the war issue. I thought that might be some "food for thought" that we might be able to discuss the differences in the candidates.

(Not directed at you Wales2004) What exactly do you all want to talk about? Do you want me to leave this board so that you can all continue to pat each other on the back. Do you want me to leave so that you may continue to denounce McCain and Palin without having to worry about the same being done to Obama on this board?

You have no intention of voting for Obama so wouldn't it be better for you to enlighten the posters on McCain's plan instead of trying to force them into this game of what is Obama's plan? It seems that if you provided them with food for thought that would be more positive than this back and forth over he has no plan or how will his plan work? Maybe they'd disagree with his plan but at least you would have put it out there instead of trying to put them on the defensive about Obama.

Even if your intentions are pure, since you find Obama's supporters sensitive then you are knowingly attempting to provoke them under the guise of having a debate. That's not a nice thing to do and I'm not saying you ought to be nice but really....... And you can't feign ignorance any longer since I've just pointed it out to you

Wales2004, you are right, I have no intention of voting for Obama. Does that mean that I am not welcome?

Also, why would you be supporting a plan that you would have to go into "defensive" mode to explain? I think its just as important to point out that the holes in an argument during a debate while also supporting your own points.

I didn't know that it had become a bad thing to provoke a debate with people that have differing view points. Is that not what this thread was set up for? I didn't think the title of the thread was "Obama Supporters Only".

Like it or not Iraq is a strategic placement in the middle east. Terrorism is most prevalent in that area of the world. I would personally rather have our troops there rather than here combating any future attacks.

We already have troops in Afgahnistan. I'm not sure how Obama will curb spending in the war by ramping up there..

With that being said. The surge has worked, and now even the Bush admin. is talking about a time table for withdrawal. It is becoming a mute point. I believe, with McCain, that we should ALWAYS have a presence in Iraq. Maybe not the same size that it is now, but always have troops stationed there. Much like Korea, Germany, Japan, Guam...so on..

This is what McCain meant, but his words have been twisted.

I am going to backtrack here and respond to some of this but after this last response I will say no more.\

The invasion was built on false pretenses as there were no weapons of mass destruction and countless Americans lost their lives based on a lie. It is sheer lunacy to point to the surge as a success when not only are Americans still losing their lives but they should not have been there in the first place. I liken that to saying that if the police mistakenly went into a gym and shot and killed thirty people but brought three out alive and called it a success despite the obvious and costly error.

If Iran wants a base then fine but if they don't then they shouldn't have one. If you don't want other nations to come and set up shop in America then you ought to respect their right not to want anyone setting up shop in their country. Otherwise Democracy isn't what it claims. Find Bin Laden and find the nucleus of these groups instead of fooling people into thinking that occupation is the solution to peace.

In order for this to be debatable I would have to believe that the invasion was a good idea in the first place. I believed it was if it would result in capturing Bin Laden and it hasn't so it was a complete waste despite Saddam Hussein since he isn't Bin Laden. Good he's gone but the occupation goes on at a great cost and with that I'm done on the subject.

I don't see why they need to explain their reasons any more than you or anyone else needs to explain theirs. It's not going to make any sort of impact and if you're attempting to do an anthropological study on the voting habits of Obama supporters good luck with that.

May I ask you what do you feel the purpose of this thread is?

If you are putting your beliefs out there...is it so terrible for someone in return to ask for an explaination as to why? I didn't think so, but maybe I am wrong. What is with the sensitivity? Why hide how you feel? Why shy away from your convictions? No one is going to hurt you for your beliefs. This is not China! I have never encountered such ambiguousness . You are hear putting your thoughts out there on the WWW. I am not embarrased for the way I feel. Thats what free speech is all about! If anyone wants to know why...I will let them know.

Anyone that gives me intelligent responses (such as yourself Wales) shys away from why..others just spew out rash comments.

I'd like to understand everyone's attraction to Obama, because I personally dont have one. I'm seeing very very passionate faces on TV from Obama supporters. I hear passionate chants. I come to this board for an understanding as to why, and all I get is .."we dont have to tell you why"...."we are not into labels"....If that is too personal of a question, then I guess I am losing grip on the purpose of discussion.

Edited August 30, 200817 yr by Casey008

I am going to backtrack here and respond to some of this but after this last response I will say no more.\

The invasion was built on false pretenses as there were no weapons of mass destruction and countless Americans lost their lives based on a lie. It is sheer lunacy to point to the surge as a success when not only are Americans still losing their lives but they should not have been there in the first place. I liken that to saying that if the police mistakenly went into a gym and shot and killed thirty people but brought three out alive and called it a success despite the obvious and costly error.

If Iran wants a base then fine but if they don't then they shouldn't have one. If you don't want other nations to come and set up shop in America then you ought to respect their right not to want anyone setting up shop in their country. Otherwise Democracy isn't what it claims. Find Bin Laden and find the nucleus of these groups instead of fooling people into thinking that occupation is the solution to peace.

In order for this to be debatable I would have to believe that the invasion was a good idea in the first place. I believed it was if it would result in capturing Bin Laden and it hasn't so it was a complete waste despite Saddam Hussein since he isn't Bin Laden. Good he's gone but the occupation goes on at a great cost and with that I'm done on the subject.

We'll never know now what would have been had this not happened.

The lie has bben told. Hopefully the next president will not employ the cowboy diplomacy that this presindent has done.

Edited August 30, 200817 yr by Roman

May I ask you what do you feel the purpose of this thread is?

If you are putting your beliefs out there...is it so terrible for someone in return to ask for an explaination as to why? I didn't think so, but maybe I am wrong. What is with the sensitivity? Why hide how you feel? Why shy away from your convictions? No one is going to hurt you for your beliefs. This is not China! I have never encountered such ambiguousness . You are hear putting your thoughts out there on the WWW. I am not embarrased for the way I feel. Thats what free speech is all about! If anyone wants to know why...I will let them know.

Anyone that gives me intelligent responses (such as yourself Wales) shys away from why..others just spew out rash comments.

I'd like to understand everyone's attraction to Obama, because I personally dont have one. I'm seeing very very passionate faces on TV from Obama supporters. I hear passionate chants. I come to this board for an understanding as to why, and all I get is .."we dont have to tell you why"...."we are not into labels"....If that is too personal of a question, then I guess I am losing grip on the purpose of discussion.

I am starting to have trouble posting and I may have to reboot my pc but I just lost one of my responses to you. All I can remember of it now is that I didn't mean to make you feel unwelcome and my apologies for doing so and for giving the impression that I am speaking for anyone other than myself and expressing my own warped opinions.

I may be wrong but I think politics tends to be more a thing of passion and that may be why it's hard for some people to articulate exactly what draws them to candidates since some of it is based on intangibles.

From my own observations of this race versus others to which I've paid some attention, there seems to be an awful lot of burden placed on Obama to fulfill the media and pundits views of what he should be. He's made to bear a lot more responsibility for what others say or do than any candidate period. This is what draws me to speak up more than any other reason. It's not that I'm looking for fairness because i doesn't exist. I decided to speak up for the underdog.

I missed responding to the purpose of the thread question. I would think to have a discussion about the election.

I would think that it works well if it's an open enough exchange that includes discussion of the proposed policies of both as opposed to the defense of the proposed policies of one/

I may be missing the point though.

(Not directed at you Wales2004)

I didn't know that it had become a bad thing to provoke a debate with people that have differing view points. Is that not what this thread was set up for? I didn't think the title of the thread was "Obama Supporters Only".

Look. You can take that crap somewhere else. You make your points, you believe in them. No one is knocking you for being a McCain fan. It just so happens that the majority in this thread are for Obama, I can only think of 2 posters here who are for McCain. You and Kwing. Dont come in crying now, and asking stupid questions which you know the answer to. Maybe the forums @ JohnMccain.com would be better for you. You can hear things that sound like you say because this whole "people with different opinions" thing isn't working out for you.

Look. You can take that crap somewhere else. You make your points, you believe in them. No one is knocking you for being a McCain fan. It just so happens that the majority in this thread are for Obama, I can only think of 2 posters here who are for McCain. You and Kwing. Dont come in crying now, and asking stupid questions which you know the answer to. Maybe the forums @ JohnMccain.com would be better for you. You can hear things that sound like you say because this whole "people with different opinions" thing isn't working out for you.

I will be leaving after this comment. Now you guys will have no one with differing opinions. Have fun.

Casey, I sure hope that you reconsider: I'm a McCain supporter, and I think it is wonderful that you are arguing on behalf of him.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to praise Ryan, who happens to be an Obama supporter. Despite his own political views, he has always been so tolerant of what McCain suporters have had to say. Perhaps because Ryan is a solid moderate, he has also never engaged in any nasty personal attacks against McCain. Political discourse in this country would be so much more civil if everyone was a class act like Ryan.

Edited August 30, 200817 yr by Max