This is the Presidential Campaign Thread.

Barack Obama Vs. John McCain.

Edited November 6, 200817 yr by Toups

You don't know she will not be on the ticket. Wesley Clark, Bill Richardson, Joe Biden, Chris Dodd, would make good VP candidates but won't pull back that 30% going for McCain

I'm sorry, AMC, but without a link to something that says this is true, I just can't believe it.

If I find one, I will post it

Here you go:

Analysis: 'Hillary Democrats' could be up for grabs By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

2 hours, 36 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - With the racially tinged Democratic race drawing to an awkward close, Barack Obama and John McCain face the challenge of winning over "Hillary Democrats" — the white, working-class voters who favored the former first lady over Obama's historic candidacy.

ADVERTISEMENT

Obama and McCain clearly have set their sights on each other, a recognition of the long odds Clinton faces in trying to capture the Democratic presidential nomination. The McCain campaign figures some of her supporters might be up for grabs and won't necessarily vote Democratic in the general election in November.

"I've been saying for a year that you never count a Clinton out, but now people are laughing at me so I guess I've got to stop," McCain strategist Charlie Black said Friday. "But if you look at the blue-collar Democratic votes that Mrs. Clinton's been getting and then look at their opinions of Obama in these public polls, there's clearly an opportunity for McCain."

Clinton won more than two-thirds of the white voters without college degrees in the last three primaries — Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana — according to exit polls conducted for The Associated Press and the television networks. When those Clinton supporters were asked who they would vote for in an Obama-McCain matchup, just fewer than half said they would support Obama. Three in 10 said they would vote for McCain and the rest said they wouldn't vote for either.

Shrugging off those numbers, Obama spokesman Bill Burton expressed confidence that Democratic voters will unite behind the nominee. He argued that the Illinois senator also would attract "droves of independent voters and disaffected Republicans that he has already won over all across the country."

Clinton is trying to use her advantage with white working-class voters to persuade party leaders to disregard Obama's overall advantage at the ballot and nominate her. Her campaign circulated a letter Friday from 16 members of Congress arguing she's the strongest candidate to have at the top of the ticket in the fall because she has won most rural and suburban congressional swing districts.

Clinton told USA Today in an article published Thursday that AP exit polls "found how Senator Obama's support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

"There's a pattern emerging here," she said.

Republican pollster Whit Ayres said that based on focus groups he has conducted in swing states, including Missouri, Michigan and Florida, Clinton's claim that she would do better than Obama with blue-collar white voters is believable.

He said those voters support her because of the prosperous economic times they experienced when her husband was president. He also said they are uncomfortable with Obama because of his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who created a furor with his divisive comments, and questions about Obama's patriotism.

"It's cultural," Ayres said.

The older those voters are, the more likely they are to support Clinton. Whites without college degrees under 30 support Obama, although to a lesser extent than the college educated.

In the general election, Democrats trying to attract white, working-class voters immediately start at a disadvantage. The party's presidential candidates have not won a majority of white voters in more than three decades, according to exit polls over the years. The only Democrat to come close was Bill Clinton, who lost to Bob Dole among whites by 3 percentage points in 1996 and to President George H.W. Bush by 1 point in 1992.

This year, whites who do not have college degrees lean slightly toward the GOP, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News survey conducted last month, with 43 percent calling themselves Republicans and 38 percent considering themselves Democrats.

Ruy Teixeira, author of "America's Forgotten Majority: Why the White Working Class Still Matters," said Democrats have a better chance of winning more votes from this demographic this year because of the troubled economy, the war in Iraq and rising health care costs and millions who remain uninsured.

"These are voters who haven't been doing too well throughout the whole Bush administration and now are really sort of beside themselves, don't have a lot of faith in the Republican brand of economic management," said Teixeira, a Democrat not supporting either Obama or Clinton. "The question is can McCain push other issues in such a way as to prevent the Democrats from taking advantage of their built-in advantage on the issues that are going to be current in this election."

Black said if McCain is to win over any "Hillary Democrats," he'll have to work for them and earn them, and he plans to do that.

"I think you'll see particularly his economic message and his health care message in very populous terms, and that he'll be talking to and meeting with people in that category," Black said. "A lot of these voters are conservative. A lot of them believe in a strong national defense."

They also believe in their guns, said strategist Mudcat Sanders, who advises Democrats on rural issues.

"He's got one thing he's got to do and he's got to say it clearly. He's got to say, `I'm not going to take anybody's gun,'" Sanders said. Obama has done that at times, such as when he was campaigning for Western voters. "It's not a litmus test. It shows you are in line with the culture."

Sanders said if Obama does that and spends time getting to know rural voters, he can win them over.

"He's got to embrace the culture is what he's got to do," Sanders said. "The boy's IQ looks like Pete Rose's liftime batting average. It's off the charts. But at the same token, that comes off to us as big city. The big city thing John Kerry never could shake, I think, is Obama's problem right now. But I think he can get those voters and lot more if he just gets out there among the people so they can get to know him."

Here you go:

Analysis: 'Hillary Democrats' could be up for grabs By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

2 hours, 36 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - With the racially tinged Democratic race drawing to an awkward close, Barack Obama and John McCain face the challenge of winning over "Hillary Democrats" — the white, working-class voters who favored the former first lady over Obama's historic candidacy.

ADVERTISEMENT

Obama and McCain clearly have set their sights on each other, a recognition of the long odds Clinton faces in trying to capture the Democratic presidential nomination. The McCain campaign figures some of her supporters might be up for grabs and won't necessarily vote Democratic in the general election in November.

"I've been saying for a year that you never count a Clinton out, but now people are laughing at me so I guess I've got to stop," McCain strategist Charlie Black said Friday. "But if you look at the blue-collar Democratic votes that Mrs. Clinton's been getting and then look at their opinions of Obama in these public polls, there's clearly an opportunity for McCain."

Clinton won more than two-thirds of the white voters without college degrees in the last three primaries — Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana — according to exit polls conducted for The Associated Press and the television networks. When those Clinton supporters were asked who they would vote for in an Obama-McCain matchup, just fewer than half said they would support Obama. Three in 10 said they would vote for McCain and the rest said they wouldn't vote for either.

Shrugging off those numbers, Obama spokesman Bill Burton expressed confidence that Democratic voters will unite behind the nominee. He argued that the Illinois senator also would attract "droves of independent voters and disaffected Republicans that he has already won over all across the country."

Clinton is trying to use her advantage with white working-class voters to persuade party leaders to disregard Obama's overall advantage at the ballot and nominate her. Her campaign circulated a letter Friday from 16 members of Congress arguing she's the strongest candidate to have at the top of the ticket in the fall because she has won most rural and suburban congressional swing districts.

Clinton told USA Today in an article published Thursday that AP exit polls "found how Senator Obama's support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

"There's a pattern emerging here," she said.

Republican pollster Whit Ayres said that based on focus groups he has conducted in swing states, including Missouri, Michigan and Florida, Clinton's claim that she would do better than Obama with blue-collar white voters is believable.

He said those voters support her because of the prosperous economic times they experienced when her husband was president. He also said they are uncomfortable with Obama because of his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who created a furor with his divisive comments, and questions about Obama's patriotism.

"It's cultural," Ayres said.

The older those voters are, the more likely they are to support Clinton. Whites without college degrees under 30 support Obama, although to a lesser extent than the college educated.

In the general election, Democrats trying to attract white, working-class voters immediately start at a disadvantage. The party's presidential candidates have not won a majority of white voters in more than three decades, according to exit polls over the years. The only Democrat to come close was Bill Clinton, who lost to Bob Dole among whites by 3 percentage points in 1996 and to President George H.W. Bush by 1 point in 1992.

This year, whites who do not have college degrees lean slightly toward the GOP, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News survey conducted last month, with 43 percent calling themselves Republicans and 38 percent considering themselves Democrats.

Ruy Teixeira, author of "America's Forgotten Majority: Why the White Working Class Still Matters," said Democrats have a better chance of winning more votes from this demographic this year because of the troubled economy, the war in Iraq and rising health care costs and millions who remain uninsured.

"These are voters who haven't been doing too well throughout the whole Bush administration and now are really sort of beside themselves, don't have a lot of faith in the Republican brand of economic management," said Teixeira, a Democrat not supporting either Obama or Clinton. "The question is can McCain push other issues in such a way as to prevent the Democrats from taking advantage of their built-in advantage on the issues that are going to be current in this election."

Black said if McCain is to win over any "Hillary Democrats," he'll have to work for them and earn them, and he plans to do that.

"I think you'll see particularly his economic message and his health care message in very populous terms, and that he'll be talking to and meeting with people in that category," Black said. "A lot of these voters are conservative. A lot of them believe in a strong national defense."

They also believe in their guns, said strategist Mudcat Sanders, who advises Democrats on rural issues.

"He's got one thing he's got to do and he's got to say it clearly. He's got to say, `I'm not going to take anybody's gun,'" Sanders said. Obama has done that at times, such as when he was campaigning for Western voters. "It's not a litmus test. It shows you are in line with the culture."

Sanders said if Obama does that and spends time getting to know rural voters, he can win them over.

"He's got to embrace the culture is what he's got to do," Sanders said. "The boy's IQ looks like Pete Rose's liftime batting average. It's off the charts. But at the same token, that comes off to us as big city. The big city thing John Kerry never could shake, I think, is Obama's problem right now. But I think he can get those voters and lot more if he just gets out there among the people so they can get to know him."

Dude, this doesn't say anything about 30%.

You've confused me.

OK, let me explain. I'll try to speak in short sentences.

I like Obama and support Obama. I think Hillary should drop out of the race. She continues to stick her foot in her mouth. At this rate, she will kill any future she has in politics.

It has been a rough few months for democrats. There are people who are angry. I think it is in the best interest of Obama and the party for Obama to reach out to the Clinton folks. That doesn't mean Hillary has to be put on the ticket. I do think that it is necessary that her supporters now that there voice will be heard.

My reference to the Clintons dealt with Wesley Clark as a potential vice presidential candidate. The comment was made that he was a huge supporter of Clinton. I know that to be true also. Evan Bayh and Diane Feinstein, who were on my list of potential candidates, also are supporters of Clinton. I think it would be of great benefit to pick someone who is tight with the Clintons. ( That of course would also apply to Bill Richardson even though he has endorsed Obama.) I think after the primary, it would be beneficial to reach out to Clinton supporters and ensure they are involved in the campaign.

That is all I meant.

I don't have to believe it when the polls say that and, if you think he can win with 30% of her supporters going for McCain, think again. It won't happen. I hate to be pessimistic about it but I am also realistic about that risk and I hope Obama is as well. I would say someone who has a plan to create jobs, push a universal health care plan, improve schools, and end the war as someone who possesses an agenda of change and hope.

The problem that I am having with what you're saying is that you're basing it on a poll. How many people does 30% of her supporters represent and how do you know that some of those same people won't be on board if they like the vp candidate? In order for Obama to be a realist, he doesn't have to share your vision. The bottom line is that stands to alienate people as well if he selected her. He would be best served choosing someone who is more in sync with him because she isn't.

I do not think of it as offensive but yes I get that others do. I just feel she said it to show who she appeals to and it would be vague if she just said "the working class"...so she was specific since not everyone in the working class is for her. If people want to be offended over that comment, that is fine. But I will also speak up and say I find it non offensive. So agree to disagree on the white working class people comment...but agree on electing a Democrat to The White House

We seem to disagree on most things. C'est la vie.

Dude, this doesn't say anything about 30%.

3 out of 10 Hillary supporters say they will be for McCain and less than half are for Obama...3/10=30%

3 out of 10 Hillary supporters say they will be for McCain and less than half are for Obama...3/10=30%

I see.

And now.......read this....

From The Guardian:

Barack Obama took a rare day off to spend time with his family at home in Chicago after Tuesday's primaries in Indiana and North Carolina. But he fitted in one trip to his campaign headquarters, to call the most-courted group in the US today, the 250-plus undeclared superdelegates who could settle the Democratic race.

After millions of votes cast in primaries and caucuses across the states since Iowa on January 3, the outcome of one of the most hotly contested campaigns in US political history now rests with this tiny group with automatic voting rights.

The US media describes the undeclared superdelegates as "undecided". The reality is most have decided privately on Obama, seeing him as the best chance to beat Republican John McCain in November and raise their chances of re-election in Congressional elections the same day.

Since Tuesday, Clinton has had the endorsement of three superdelegates while he has announced 13, including seven yesterday. His campaign team is dripping them out every few hours to wear her down, gleefully sending out emails to the media announcing the dwindling number of delegates he needs to reach the 2,025 target.

The momentum has been with him since the SuperTuesday contests on February 3. Since then, he has picked up 113 of the undeclared superdelegates to her 22.

Although there are six primaries left, the contest is effectively over. Obama is behaving - and being treated - as the presumptive nominee.

He brought the House of Representatives to a near standstill on Thursday with a surprise appearance, with members calling him "Mr President", with even a pro-Clinton congresswoman asking him to sign her newspaper.

Clinton, meanwhile, resembles an increasingly forlorn figure, campaigning in the now largely irrelevant primaries.

The political action is now with the undeclared superdelegates, about a third of whom are in Congress. He needs them to close the race by reaching the magic number - 2,025 - half of the delegates to be seated at the Democratic convention in August. He has 1,857 delegates to her 1,697, according to the Associated Press.

Over the past 48 hours, the Guardian contacted about 20 superdelegates, ranging from Congress members to more obscure party members in places such as Hawaii. They have been taking calls on an almost daily basis for months and have largely opted for formulaic responses, combined with sighs, and, in the case of one congressman's staff, swearing in exasperation.

The Democratic party chairman in Idaho, Keith Roark, admitted he had been worried by Obama's "nightmare weeks" in March and again last month, when he was engaged in a row over his former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But Obama's recovery in Tuesday's primaries had gone a long way towards allaying his fears. "I wouldn't say I'm necessarily leaning, but I'm getting much closer to making up my mind."

So why are the superdelegates stalling? Many do not want to make an enemy of Clinton, who may end up as vice-president, majority leader in the Senate or, if McCain wins in November, the Democratic frontrunner in 2012.

Jennifer Duffy, managing editor of the Cook political newsletter, said: "I don't think they see any upside to doing it. Putting Obama over the top will be ascribed to someone ... and nobody wants that level of notoriety, especially if you're an elected official."

Others are holding out for political favours. On Thursday a California superdelegate, Steven Ybarra, offered his vote in exchange for a promise to spend $20m (£10m) to help Mexican-Americans.

Democratic strategist Erick Mullen said: "Holding out at this point is a win-win because superdelegates will leverage their support for everything … There's no incentive to rush in for free now."

Democratic senator and superdelegate Ron Wyden, from Oregon, is resisting pressure. He wants support from both for his healthcare plan next year.

There is an argument in the party that it would be undemocratic for superdelegates to make the decision, and they should abide by results in the primaries and caucuses. But Helen Knetzer, a superdelegate from Wichita, Kansas, disagrees. Knetzer, who is inundated with calls daily, wants to wait until she has consulted her organisation, the National Federation of Democratic Women. "I've had calls and letters saying I should go along with what my state did. I wasn't elected by my state. I was elected by my organisation."

The remaining fantasy for Clinton supporters is that the contest could last through to the convention, at which point the superdelegates might override the will of the primaries and caucuses. Superdelegates recoil in horror at a scenario that would be seen as robbing Obama.

"That would be the Democratic party stabbing itself in the heart. I cannot imagine that would ever take place, and if it ever took place, I'm not sure there would be a Democratic party left," Roark said.

The problem that I am having with what you're saying is that you're basing it on a poll. How many people does 30% of her supporters represent and how do you know that some of those same people won't be on board if they like the vp candidate? In order for Obama to be a realist, he doesn't have to share your vision. The bottom line is that stands to alienate people as well if he selected her. He would be best served choosing someone who is more in sync with him because she isn't.

We seem to disagree on most things. C'est la vie.

30% is in the millions but it is still a big number that he should not risk. I would rather he put her on and not lose that 30% because that can impact his chances of winning. Odds are they will just want Hillary and not accept another as VP...I am not one of those 30%.

I disagree with Hillary not being in sync with Obama. They both have similar records in the Senate and are aimed for pretty much the same thing but have different actions in getting there. I share the same vision of Obama: Universal health care (although his seems to not cover as many as Hillary's does), environment protection, creating jobs, civil rights, women's rights, ending the war. That is my vision and it sounds like it is mine

Well politics we disagree but we both agree on getting a Democrat in The White House and that is important

Dude, this doesn't say anything about 30%.

I think the article was referring to 30 percent ( 3 out of 10) white voters without college degrees who voted in the last three primaries. I don't think white voters without a college degree from the states of Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana make up that large a percentage of voters. I think also they were walking out of the doors of the voting booth when they were asked the question.

Like you Roman, I think that is a pretty suspicious number. :lol:

I see.

And now.......read this....

From The Guardian:

Barack Obama took a rare day off to spend time with his family at home in Chicago after Tuesday's primaries in Indiana and North Carolina. But he fitted in one trip to his campaign headquarters, to call the most-courted group in the US today, the 250-plus undeclared superdelegates who could settle the Democratic race.

After millions of votes cast in primaries and caucuses across the states since Iowa on January 3, the outcome of one of the most hotly contested campaigns in US political history now rests with this tiny group with automatic voting rights.

The US media describes the undeclared superdelegates as "undecided". The reality is most have decided privately on Obama, seeing him as the best chance to beat Republican John McCain in November and raise their chances of re-election in Congressional elections the same day.

Since Tuesday, Clinton has had the endorsement of three superdelegates while he has announced 13, including seven yesterday. His campaign team is dripping them out every few hours to wear her down, gleefully sending out emails to the media announcing the dwindling number of delegates he needs to reach the 2,025 target.

The momentum has been with him since the SuperTuesday contests on February 3. Since then, he has picked up 113 of the undeclared superdelegates to her 22.

Although there are six primaries left, the contest is effectively over. Obama is behaving - and being treated - as the presumptive nominee.

He brought the House of Representatives to a near standstill on Thursday with a surprise appearance, with members calling him "Mr President", with even a pro-Clinton congresswoman asking him to sign her newspaper.

Clinton, meanwhile, resembles an increasingly forlorn figure, campaigning in the now largely irrelevant primaries.

The political action is now with the undeclared superdelegates, about a third of whom are in Congress. He needs them to close the race by reaching the magic number - 2,025 - half of the delegates to be seated at the Democratic convention in August. He has 1,857 delegates to her 1,697, according to the Associated Press.

Over the past 48 hours, the Guardian contacted about 20 superdelegates, ranging from Congress members to more obscure party members in places such as Hawaii. They have been taking calls on an almost daily basis for months and have largely opted for formulaic responses, combined with sighs, and, in the case of one congressman's staff, swearing in exasperation.

The Democratic party chairman in Idaho, Keith Roark, admitted he had been worried by Obama's "nightmare weeks" in March and again last month, when he was engaged in a row over his former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright. But Obama's recovery in Tuesday's primaries had gone a long way towards allaying his fears. "I wouldn't say I'm necessarily leaning, but I'm getting much closer to making up my mind."

So why are the superdelegates stalling? Many do not want to make an enemy of Clinton, who may end up as vice-president, majority leader in the Senate or, if McCain wins in November, the Democratic frontrunner in 2012.

Jennifer Duffy, managing editor of the Cook political newsletter, said: "I don't think they see any upside to doing it. Putting Obama over the top will be ascribed to someone ... and nobody wants that level of notoriety, especially if you're an elected official."

Others are holding out for political favours. On Thursday a California superdelegate, Steven Ybarra, offered his vote in exchange for a promise to spend $20m (£10m) to help Mexican-Americans.

Democratic strategist Erick Mullen said: "Holding out at this point is a win-win because superdelegates will leverage their support for everything … There's no incentive to rush in for free now."

Democratic senator and superdelegate Ron Wyden, from Oregon, is resisting pressure. He wants support from both for his healthcare plan next year.

There is an argument in the party that it would be undemocratic for superdelegates to make the decision, and they should abide by results in the primaries and caucuses. But Helen Knetzer, a superdelegate from Wichita, Kansas, disagrees. Knetzer, who is inundated with calls daily, wants to wait until she has consulted her organisation, the National Federation of Democratic Women. "I've had calls and letters saying I should go along with what my state did. I wasn't elected by my state. I was elected by my organisation."

The remaining fantasy for Clinton supporters is that the contest could last through to the convention, at which point the superdelegates might override the will of the primaries and caucuses. Superdelegates recoil in horror at a scenario that would be seen as robbing Obama.

"That would be the Democratic party stabbing itself in the heart. I cannot imagine that would ever take place, and if it ever took place, I'm not sure there would be a Democratic party left," Roark said.

This says nothing about the 30% who are agreeing to be for McCain if she is not on the ticket...and I don't put much stock in the Guardian. Sorry

I think the article was referring to 30 percent ( 3 out of 10) white voters without college degrees who voted in the last three primaries.

That could be it but I have seen an article about 30% of overall Hillary supporters. Let me look for more articles

Here it is...the numbers stand at 28% and 19%. It seems like they need each other: http://www.gallup.com/poll/105691/McCain-v...ers-McCain.aspx

Here you go:

Analysis: 'Hillary Democrats' could be up for grabs By NEDRA PICKLER, Associated Press Writer

2 hours, 36 minutes ago

WASHINGTON - With the racially tinged Democratic race drawing to an awkward close, Barack Obama and John McCain face the challenge of winning over "Hillary Democrats" — the white, working-class voters who favored the former first lady over Obama's historic candidacy.

ADVERTISEMENT

Obama and McCain clearly have set their sights on each other, a recognition of the long odds Clinton faces in trying to capture the Democratic presidential nomination. The McCain campaign figures some of her supporters might be up for grabs and won't necessarily vote Democratic in the general election in November.

"I've been saying for a year that you never count a Clinton out, but now people are laughing at me so I guess I've got to stop," McCain strategist Charlie Black said Friday. "But if you look at the blue-collar Democratic votes that Mrs. Clinton's been getting and then look at their opinions of Obama in these public polls, there's clearly an opportunity for McCain."

Clinton won more than two-thirds of the white voters without college degrees in the last three primaries — Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana — according to exit polls conducted for The Associated Press and the television networks. When those Clinton supporters were asked who they would vote for in an Obama-McCain matchup, just fewer than half said they would support Obama. Three in 10 said they would vote for McCain and the rest said they wouldn't vote for either.

Shrugging off those numbers, Obama spokesman Bill Burton expressed confidence that Democratic voters will unite behind the nominee. He argued that the Illinois senator also would attract "droves of independent voters and disaffected Republicans that he has already won over all across the country."

Clinton is trying to use her advantage with white working-class voters to persuade party leaders to disregard Obama's overall advantage at the ballot and nominate her. Her campaign circulated a letter Friday from 16 members of Congress arguing she's the strongest candidate to have at the top of the ticket in the fall because she has won most rural and suburban congressional swing districts.

Clinton told USA Today in an article published Thursday that AP exit polls "found how Senator Obama's support among working, hardworking Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."

"There's a pattern emerging here," she said.

Republican pollster Whit Ayres said that based on focus groups he has conducted in swing states, including Missouri, Michigan and Florida, Clinton's claim that she would do better than Obama with blue-collar white voters is believable.

He said those voters support her because of the prosperous economic times they experienced when her husband was president. He also said they are uncomfortable with Obama because of his relationship with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright, who created a furor with his divisive comments, and questions about Obama's patriotism.

"It's cultural," Ayres said.

The older those voters are, the more likely they are to support Clinton. Whites without college degrees under 30 support Obama, although to a lesser extent than the college educated.

In the general election, Democrats trying to attract white, working-class voters immediately start at a disadvantage. The party's presidential candidates have not won a majority of white voters in more than three decades, according to exit polls over the years. The only Democrat to come close was Bill Clinton, who lost to Bob Dole among whites by 3 percentage points in 1996 and to President George H.W. Bush by 1 point in 1992.

This year, whites who do not have college degrees lean slightly toward the GOP, according to an Associated Press-Yahoo News survey conducted last month, with 43 percent calling themselves Republicans and 38 percent considering themselves Democrats.

Ruy Teixeira, author of "America's Forgotten Majority: Why the White Working Class Still Matters," said Democrats have a better chance of winning more votes from this demographic this year because of the troubled economy, the war in Iraq and rising health care costs and millions who remain uninsured.

"These are voters who haven't been doing too well throughout the whole Bush administration and now are really sort of beside themselves, don't have a lot of faith in the Republican brand of economic management," said Teixeira, a Democrat not supporting either Obama or Clinton. "The question is can McCain push other issues in such a way as to prevent the Democrats from taking advantage of their built-in advantage on the issues that are going to be current in this election."

Black said if McCain is to win over any "Hillary Democrats," he'll have to work for them and earn them, and he plans to do that.

"I think you'll see particularly his economic message and his health care message in very populous terms, and that he'll be talking to and meeting with people in that category," Black said. "A lot of these voters are conservative. A lot of them believe in a strong national defense."

They also believe in their guns, said strategist Mudcat Sanders, who advises Democrats on rural issues.

"He's got one thing he's got to do and he's got to say it clearly. He's got to say, `I'm not going to take anybody's gun,'" Sanders said. Obama has done that at times, such as when he was campaigning for Western voters. "It's not a litmus test. It shows you are in line with the culture."

Sanders said if Obama does that and spends time getting to know rural voters, he can win them over.

"He's got to embrace the culture is what he's got to do," Sanders said. "The boy's IQ looks like Pete Rose's liftime batting average. It's off the charts. But at the same token, that comes off to us as big city. The big city thing John Kerry never could shake, I think, is Obama's problem right now. But I think he can get those voters and lot more if he just gets out there among the people so they can get to know him."

AMC, that article is referring specifically to 30 percent of white voters without a college education who voted in three primaries. That 30 percent is not the entire voting public, it is not even all of the white voters. It doesn't even say if those voters traditionally vote democratic or republican. Saying it is 30 percent of voters is a little bit misleading.

I think the article was referring to 30 percent ( 3 out of 10) white voters without college degrees who voted in the last three primaries. I don't think white voters without a college degree from the states of Pennsylvania, North Carolina and Indiana make up that large a percentage of voters. I think also they were walking out of the doors of the voting booth when they were asked the question.

Like you Roman, I think that is a pretty suspicious number. :lol:

Thanks for keeping it simple. I think I got it the first time but was thrown off by something. 'Sorry.

I thought the information about crossover voting came from exit polls and I didn't place too much stock in that.