Barack Obama Elected President!

[George008]

Not at all. My point was that you put down the quality of their workmanship, so I was lead to believe you had those feelings.

Buck and Kincaid!

I will admit I dont listen to 680 much anymore, because I dont want to hear the Braves score! LOL.

[Roman]

And they are the ones who set the prices for these cars?

And yes, I'm for any hard working american who continues to get screwed by big business in this country. I can't keep my head stuck up backside of big companies and then worry about how they won't continue to receive huge tax cuts......

While millions of jobs are being outsourced by these very same companies.

[George008]

Have you compared McCain's spending plan to Obama's?

I would be terrified to see Obama in charge with a Democratic lead congress. I think the spending allowed by Bush from the Republican lead congress will pail in comparison.

[Roman]

Yes, I have. That is why I made the statement. Don't assume just because someone disagrees with you that they have not done their homework.

That is your opinion, this is mine. We disagree. Period.

[George008]

I wasn't commenting on the price issue that you brought up. I was pointing out that you said Fords will break down in three years.

Alright, then based on the homework that you have done how will McCain not curb spending?

[Roman]

Just like alot of American made cars. I know those line workers are doing the best they can. That is where I fall. Ok?

http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/06/palin-asked-for-specifics-on-her-whine-of-mean-obamabiden-democrats-cant-answer/

[GoldenDogs]

Dude, without profits, there IS no business and those 1,500 people have no job anyway. I agree that it is upsetting to see people lose their jobs -- I'm very fortunate to have never been in that position. But I can see, from the standpoint of business, it is better to, for example, drop 10% of the workforce and keep the other 90% employed and the business viable, than to struggle along and ultimately have the business fail -- thereby throwing all 100% of the workforce out of work.

Where is the line for you, Roman? What is the threshold for business to make that hard decision? Should business risks losing everything and closing shop to avoid layoffs? Certainly you agree there must be a decent enough profit margin to make it even worthwhile to operate the business. Certainly you agree there must be some sort of financial reward for doing the hard work of operating a business...

My fiance's company last week laid off three employees. They were lesser paid drafters. And this some months after hiring a number of higher paid architects. My first question was why get rid of employees that cost less while keeping the higher paid ones? Well, it is a business decision... Things have slowed and those drafters weren't as versatile as the architects. This company is extremely profitable and has grown from small business to big business in recent years, in part due, much to Wales' dismay, school construction bonds. Well, without a state budget (those idiots in Sacramento again!!), higher fuel prices, etc., growth of the company has sold. Those particularly selective layoffs were strategic and done so as to keep the "bottom line" consistent, which will help eclipse an overall reduction in growth. The bosses did it to protect both the company and the existing employees. These guys are extremely generous with bonuses and raises and other nice perks. I don't think they are all that different from other business owners...

I just don't see the majority of business owners as evil tycoons chomping cigars with stuffed money bags decorating their offices, plotting to rake in more at the expense of their poor, downtrodden workers. Oh, I'm sure there are awful people here or there... but the bottom line, Roman, for most business owners is to keep their investments healthy. These people work long hours to ensure their companies are viable. I truly believe they deserve a tax break so that they can grow and staff their businesses accordingly...

[wiccachick_1]

Oh honey please. I'm pretending that baseball season is already over! hehe...it's just too painful. I listen because I'm just a sports junkie and I love college football. I'm a HUGE Georgia fan! GOOOOO DAWGS!!

but back to Ford.

Roman- we experienced similar issues with Ford down here in the South. Ford had a huge Taurus assembly plant in Doraville down here which they had to close. It was horrible and sad and my heart went out to the workers in that plant and it was a large number. Ford however had plenty of market indicators about the sale of that particular vehicle long before they shut down the plant. There were warning signs which the company should have seen and created a plan for the future to protect their workers. The market is fluid in good times and bad. The consumer demand is fluid. They could have taken the time offered by lowering assembly demand to refit the assembly plant for a new model to seemlessly adjust to a changing market. They chose not to do that.

I question Ford's business decisions. I question their business model that doesn't adjust well to change which is surprising for a company that is so old and has successfully made the adjustment in all sorts of markets and economic times. I think Ford would do well to make a change at the top and get some new thinking in their headquarters. They do have a viable product but their financial problems are of their own design.

Corporate tax breaks or not, their current SOP is a recipe in failure if they refuse to change.

[Roman]

Forget it. we see this completely differently.

Thank you. Thta is exactly what I'm saying.

[GoldenDogs]

Yup, we agree on this. I truly believe that, in most all cases, both parties are usually to blame for not working together as they should. When in power, the goal is to STAY in power. When not in power, the goal is to GET in power. It is all consuming to the parties and their politicians. It is hard to do the people's business when all that matters is controlling every branch of government!

[GoldenDogs]

Okay, Roman.. explain to me where my analysis is wrong on the issue...

[wiccachick_1]

Have you thought about WHY those jobs are being outsourced? The cost of doing business here is higher than in other places in the world and a part of that is the tax structure of this country. Adding additional taxes will only outsource MORE jobs and create a larger problem within this country. Other countries are not chomping at the bit to create a business presence (at least not a permanent one) in this country because of the tax burden to foreign corporations doing business here. That also helps prevent the creation of new jobs. It's a vicious cycle that will continue to feed itself. As jobs are lost, less consumer spending, less demand for product, more layoffs, etc, etc, etc.

The US should adopt the Fair Tax which would make us the world's largest tax shelter country and companies would be lining up at the borders to do business here and stimulate the economy. It would eliminate the use of taxation as a political weapon.

[George008]

Just in case anyone doesn't know, I like to call them the #1 ranked GA Bulldogs!

IA with you wholeheartedly. Ford's management and leadership has lead to their decline. I do give them credit in that gas prices have hurt them as well.

Roman, are you suggesting that government should become involved in the day to day decisions that faces businesses? Or do you just believe that they should not be allowed tax breaks?

[wiccachick_1]

Yes, we do agree there but I don't agree that other companies that have used their tax structure in responsible ways should have to suffer and cause a larger economic downturn because they can no longer do the right thing by their employees because of the cost to do so because Ford doesnt have it's ducks in a row. Business incentives are good for the American worker. Business taxes are expenses which a company can't control. Payroll is. If the business is forced to pay higher taxes, their only recourse to maintain a healthy business model is to lower expense in areas that they can control and that means payroll. That means job loss. Where a company may have three warehouse workers they will increase the workload and go with two. They will use one less person in accounting. Somehow they have to maintain a profit margin. That's WHY they are in business and that margin allows for raises, benefits, number of employees, unemployment insurance, and getting through the leaner times.

[wiccachick_1]

Yes, gas prices have hurt Ford because their highest selling vehicles were (until recently) the gas guzzling Explorer, Expedition, and Excursion. Their other high seller is the gas guzzling sports car the Mustang. They have an Escape Hybrid but instead of rewarding the consumer for wanting to use a more environmentally friendly vehicle by pricing the Escape hybrid competitively against the gas reliant version of the same vehicle, they make the hybrid 6 to $10,000 more expensive.

That's not a business intent on moving forward.

And btw, I knew there was a reason I felt comfortable discussing politics on this board. This has been the most informed, intelligent group of "debaters" on politics I've seen in a while. I love how there are representatives of multiple sides of the issues but no namecalling, flaming or full-on attacks. This is the greatest board EVER.

You guys, ALL of you guys, ROCK!!