New in a sense "not seen here (on SON)". And I said I didn't know.

Ah I see.

Judging by the last 5-6 episodes, consistency of quality is up. There are still tonal differences between episodes...but each episode is CONSISTENTLY good. That is what I have been wishing for so long.

After Thursday's cliffhanger (Victor summoning Nick and Vic into his new "study")...I am now in AGONY waiting until Monday to see what he says. That is a PERFECT cliffhanger. No car crash or gun shot. A simple difficult (or happy?) conversation.... These writers UNDERSTAND what an audience wants.

I mean, I am literally jittery :-)...waiting until Monday's show. The three day respite seems torturous. That is a GREAT thing. That is what daytime should be.

So, for now (not making any long-term assumptions...not even having hope for anything but today...just like Tom Casiello counsels us), I am in bliss. My show is entertaining, history-based (sue me...I like the retcons...they are most based in historical possibility IMO), consistently written, with the suspense/drama based in relationships/conversations and not really events. THAT is what I love.

Moreover, the writing is slowly revealing characters in subtle ways (Adam banishing Zapato, Victor understanding Adam by what he does "when no one is looking", Heather stealing the letter and tolerating mild abuse).

I watch the show with people who have MUCH LESS commitment than I. But they watch, because it is my thing. In the last two weeks, they have been RUSHING to turn on the show...can't wait to see the next episode. BEFORE ME. That is a sign of a MUCH better show.

It could all be gone tomorrow...but that doesn't matter. For today, the show is great.

Oh, how nice this all sounds... Unfortunately, this is just the cosmetics. I've been talking with Y&RWorldTurner and I just don't see a real effort from Maria's side to improve this show. If she had the guts and will, the first thing she should have done was a thorough in-house clean. Meaning, see which writers you like, which show potential, keep them and remove the rest. This is just money thrown in fire - she keeps a team of gargantuan proportions which doesn't give results.

I mean, Y&RWorldTurner put it nicely: she fired some people which were good and hired an "untalented hack" Lisa Seidman. WHAT?! I'm not following... What sort of reasoning is this?

And you say it's consistently written. Yeah, that's why one episode is good, the other two plain suck. Besides, there's a whole lot of awful, awful stories like the Restless cr*p, CaLi etc. On top of all that, she had to invent a ridiculous retcon that Chloe is Esther's daughter... Yeah, real, compelling, fresh storytelling.

On top of all that, even though her family partly owns the show, she just can't get a firm hold of it. Instead, she let's her EP freely re-write her as if that were the most normaln thing in the world and now has problems with her co-HW...

Splendid, splendid. Bravo, Maria!

Edited September 8, 200817 yr by Sylph

Maria is not HW material, they should've found a respectable replacement after the strike. Perhaps they can demote her to AHW or Script Editor, but she has no business plotting long-term story projections.

The sad thing is, she has the HW position for life, given what her last name is. Billy Bell won't see that nepotism is ruining the reputation of his father's show.

Maria doesn't know a lot of people in the industry and probably knows very little about soap writers, which is why her hirinings have been less than impressive. Lisa Seidman? Amanda Beall? Keeping Scott Hamner? WTF!?

Has the show improved? Yes. Is it better than it was last year? Yes. However, you have to wonder when this will all come crashing down, and the show is still plagued by management problems, like Hogan and Maria's alleged hatred of one another, Griffith's rewrites and unconfirmed firing, and who will EP the show in the future, etc...

Has the show improved? Yes. Is it better than it was last year? Yes.

I agree completely. However, I have to add: all these stories are just OK stories, not sensational, masterful storytelling as some might claim. That's what I have a problem with. Instead of writing a full-blown bravura story (or, God forbid, stories) and giving the show a bit of its former glory, she's just writing one or two good stories and the rest can go into the litter bin.

I agree completely. However, I have to add: all these stories are just OK stories, not sensational, masterful storytelling as some might claim. That's what I have a problem with. Instead of writing a full-blown bravura story (or, God forbid, stories) and giving the show a bit of its former glory, she's just writing one or two good stories and the rest can go into the litter bin.

There's only really two major stories going on, which is fine for most other shows, but Y&R used to have as many as five major storylines going on at one time. However, those days are over, and no longer are stories paced slowly, sadly.

And we're still in the dark regarding the Griffith situation. He really needs to go, along with Hamner, he's the last big remnant of the horrible Latham era. I think if Maria and Hogan had someone like David Shaughnessy to work with, they could potentially get the show even more than they do now. I know the execution would be a lot better.

Edited September 8, 200817 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

There's only really two major stories going on, which is fine for most other shows, but Y&R used to have as many as five major storylines going on at one time. However, those days are over, and no longer are stories paced slowly, sadly.

And we're still in the dark regarding the Griffith situation. He really needs to go, along with Hamner, he's the last big remnant of the horrible Latham era. I think if Maria and Hogan had someone like David Shaughnessy to work with, their could potentially get the show even more than they do now. I know the execution would be a lot better.

Besides, I believe that you should have a nice working relationship with your team. And not just treat them as working horses who will convert your stories into dialogue. I'm referring to the type of relationship Broderick had with Johnson and Beldner, let them pitch, that sort of stuff.

Synergy.

Oh, how nice this all sounds... Unfortunately, this is just the cosmetics. I've been talking with Y&RWorldTurner and I just don't see a real effort from Maria's side to improve this show. If she had the guts and will, the first thing she should have done was a thorough in-house clean. Meaning, see which writers you like, which show potential, keep them and remove the rest. This is just money thrown in fire - she keeps a team of gargantuan proportions which doesn't give results.

Since I am industry-naive, I cannot comment. Many, many writers are gone since January. It seems to me she IS housecleaning, but judiciously.

I mean, Y&RWorldTurner put it nicely: she fired some people which were good and hired an "untalented hack" Lisa Seidman. WHAT?! I'm not following... What sort of reasoning is this?

I have enjoyed some of the Seidman episodes. A lot. I have no basis on which to support the allegations of her "hackdom"

And you say it's consistently written. Yeah, that's why one episode is good, the other two plain suck. Besides, there's a whole lot of awful, awful stories like the Restless cr*p, CaLi etc. On top of all that, she had to invent a ridiculous retcon that Chloe is Esther's daughter... Yeah, real, compelling, fresh storytelling.

I do not personally agree here. Moreover, I think the "suck" (which is down to near-zero for me, at this point) owes itself to storylines/actors...not days. So "CaLi" or "Lane" generally sucks no matter who writes it. That is not the fault of the scriptwriter, when the phenomenon occurs across all writers. That is the fault of the HW, EP and other controlling forces that continue to foist a story that is not working.

On top of all that, even though her family partly owns the show, she just can't get a firm hold of it. Instead, she let's her EP freely re-write her as if that were the most normaln thing in the world and now has problems with her co-HW...

I read that she DID NOT let her EP "freely re-write", and that is why her EP is leaving. Is this false?

Yes, I have seen the rumors of her problems with her co-HW. Was that a TVGuide Canada item? If yes, then it MUST be true!

Splendid, splendid. Bravo, Maria!

The show is improved, and improving. Just about everyone acknowledges that. I am not personally aware of all the contextual constraints within which Ms. Arena Bell and her team are being forced to toil. Assuming that there are such constraints, and they are severe, I find it remarkable that she has been able to restore so much of the show's voice.

It is claimed that none of the stories are spectacular (forgive my paraphrase). What constitutes such a spectacular story? I find the Sabrina-Victor umbrella pretty compelling.

And, I give full marks for the Chloe retcon. It fits pretty well, IMO.

I see a lot more evidence of craftspersonship than some others are willing to give credit for. But I suspect this is the wrong thread to continue along these lines...

The show is improved, and improving.

I said it, too. But that's not the point: if you had a C and now get a B-, it's hardly an improvement. Make that a C and a D.

I said it, too. But that's not the point: if you had a C and now get a B-, it's hardly an improvement. Make that a C and a D.

You must not be an educator. Moving from a C to a B- IS an improvement, especially if it becomes a B in the next grading cycle, and then a B+.

It is unrealistic to expect to go from C to A+ in a single grading cycle.

Finally, when the remedial class is averaging C, to achieve a B- is an even more remarkable achievement.

And truly finally, I disagree with your B- grade...which is fine (all grades are subjective). I'd give the current product an A-, myself.

I love it when you disagree with me. You come from such opposite views, it's a joy to read what you write.

The show is good. But definitely not A material of any kind.

Edited September 9, 200817 yr by YRBB

The show is good. But definitely not A material of any kind.

Precisely what I'm saying. You only put it like a Spartan - concisely.

Latest Update

Y&R:

- Cherie Bennett & Jeff Gottsefeld OUT

Latest Update

Y&R:

- Cherie Bennett & Jeff Gottsefeld OUT

Heh.

I love it when you disagree with me. You come from such opposite views, it's a joy to read what you write.

I enjoy it too. I think it relates to (a) our already-discussed difference as "relativist vs. absolutist", and ( my general orientation to start every critical evaluation by looking at the positive aspects, and then interpreting the negative aspects in that light.

You have not confirmed if you are European, but from my time in Germany, I learned that many people there, culturally, offer criticism in your style. My style was called "quintessentially American" (although I am a Canadian by birth) at the time.

The show is good. But definitely not A material of any kind.

I disagree. My "A-" was an average grade. Focusing on the grading period beginning 8/1/08, there have been days (for me) that were A++ (8/6/08), and others that were in the lower Bs, and (for me) not much lower than B. Of course, I could distill that further into things that have been more consistently good and bad. But, on average, I believe Y&R is again in very good shape. I could see years of good story spinning from current and recently announced impending events.