DAYS: Frustrated by Hogan Sheffer

[Ryan]

IMissAremid,

Maybe I should have chosen my words carefully. I did not and do not want to offend anyone with my statements about EJ & Sami. It wasn't my intention to anger anyone in that fanbase, but in my passionate post, I spoke the first thing that came to mind (and I stand by it).

I've said this on the boards and on the show, no one can deny the chemistry between Alison & James. It's an amazing thing and I wish they would have never written the rape storyline, because it ruined them as a potential couple for many fans (including me). I think that it's sick to put Sami with her rapist, but I'm not going to take away your right to want them together.

Sami & Lucas are just like Sonny & Carly. It's a sick obsession between two people. It's not love, it's a psychological disorder. But the same way I can't take away your right to like EJ & Sami, you can't take away my right to like Sami & Lucas.

Just because Hogan is writing EJ & Sami with the possibility they could be together doesn't mean I'm not going to be a "Hogan supporter." I disagree with the story (and the way it's being told) but that doesn't mean I am going to hate Hogan for writing it. This isn't an Lumi/EJami thing, I'm not trying to discredit one couple and promote the other, both have their flaws but people like them anyway.

[ChangedBYSon]

With a full ratings point lost since last year, I honestly do blame Hogan more than I do Corday

for the drop off, and that's because Hogan is an ABOVE AVERAGE writer, he's actually "exceptional"

talent-wise, so even with the interference, he should be able to mannuever his vision onto the canvas.

I believe that he has, and I believe that it just hasn't caught on.

"DOOL" is not like other soaps. There's a distinct "escapism/realism" (passive/aggressive) tension that

has always defined the town of SALEM.

The show, from day one, has been about HEART. That's what the Hortons were, and somehow, that was

totally lost about 25 years ago, but the Bradys originally did a good job of keeping SALEM vital and alive.

There is a "STYLE" to DOOL that has always been present, and I think when you make everything "gritty"

all at once---and especially when you backburner the STARS of the show and use the veterans as day players,

you lose a lot of the familiarity that would keep regular viewers tuning in.

The show desperately needed to use the veterans to slowly introduce the "new teens". And frankly, none of

the new kids have the "star quality" or "charisma" that Melissa Anderson, Bo and Hope or Jennifer and Frankie

had back in the old days.

The only new character on "DOOL" who reeks of star quality is James Scott/E.J. Wells, but he's being poorly

written--and that's not Corday's fault.

Corday doesn't control the storylines. What he does is says, "Look--I need something big to happen on Wedn.

the 18th that will spike the ratings. Can we get John buried in snow or something? Oh, you don't like that idea.

Well until you get some ratings in here, buster, see that you make it happen."

This DOES hurt the writer's overall story when they're forced to introduce silly plot stunts---but at the same time,

if you keep the ratings up on your own with strong, compelling story, then you won't have SONY and NBC nagging

Corday to make something happen numbers-wise.

Earlier when I was talking about glamour not being on the show anymore, please let me remind you that "Bold and

The Beautiful", "Y&R", "AMC" and many shows have successfully used MODELS, Fashion shoots, fashion shows to

lure in young girl viewers and it's always worked for "DAYS" as well.

People seem to forget Hope Brady's glamorous storylines with bad boy Bo on lavish boats, crown ballroom dance

floors, sweeping music video-like montages, romantic lovemaking under sepia light.

That stuff appeals to women viewers.

They could also show Maggie Horton rinsing and cutting a chicken at the Horton table from time to time.

As Agnes Nixon said, a "cat fight" at the Beauty Parlor is something women can relate to, but notice there's

only POLICE STATIONS and "cubicles" on DOOL. The women on the show rarely go to the MALL and run

into "guest star" Naomi Campbell (imagine if they brought on her on for a guest shot and had Celeste clock

her with a cell phone!).

Yes, I'm being over the top--but there's so many ways to be creative, entertaining and tell very heartfelt

deeply dramatic stories about life and love in Salem and STILL keep it Salem, USA.

More than anything, the show needs to appeal to WOMEN.

And it's not at all.

[PhoenixRising05]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that we all know Days can be better, regardless of who we blame and what not. We've all been playing the blame game since January in some fashion. It just shows how much we all genuinely care about the show and the actors.

I think we all just need to hope things will get better. Changes have been made cosmetically but we have yet to see what influence Ed is going to have on the writing and stories, if any. I think he will and I have already noticed what looks like upcoming changes but we won't have any idea until we see what is oncreen in the next two months, which are months I think will be indicative of where the show is going. The actors have been confident that Ed's influence is going to fix all that is wrong and that he has given the show renewed direction. I hope that is true. The good news is the stories that have been widely regarded as failures are ending or have already ended. TTS is done and Santeen will be ending. With those two out of the way, the path can be paved for the feud story to focus on those in the here and now and, hopefully, that means more vet airtime. I would carefully monitor the next two months because they are to me the biggest months in Days history. If the show can show signs of change and promise, then I think there will be hope for good things to come. As much as I am enjoying the show, I recognize that it needs to make further changes and, if it does not make those changes, then I hate to think about the result.

I am just going to stay hopeful and optimistic that Ed being here will get the show on the right track. I know Hogan is capable. It's all a matter of whether Ed has the power to do what is necessary because I certainly don't trust Corday to do so. We'll see.

[IMissAremid]

Ryan,

Thanks for the clarification. For the record, I'm not offended, but it's sad that this show has given us a storyline so polarizing and unresolved for so long that we can't even simply discuss this show without having to add caveats to our statements like we don't want to start a war out of this or we're not trying to anger another fanbase. And this is yet another reason I am not a fan of Hogan Sheffer.

Also, so you know, I don't begrudge anyone the right to root for Lucas and Sami even though I'm not a fan nor do I begrudge anyone liking any couple for that matter. When I bring up Lucas and Sami's dysfunctional past it is ONLY to defend the legitimacy of the couple I support, not that I think there is anything wrong with Lucas and Sami fans for liking their couple. But hearing your description of Lucas and Sami, I have to say if I felt like Hogan really was writing them like that (and thus true to their history) maybe I wouldn't be so opposed to them at this point. Because the brilliant description of "it's not love, it's a psychological disorder" is precisely what *I* think is the case when it comes to the EJ-Sami dynamic and why I want to see that pairing explored. LOL. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Finally, I admit I am still confused about what being a "Hogan supporter" entails seeing so many people now, not just you Ryan, describe themselves as Hogan supporters yet express so many legitimate and serious concerns with his writing. I mean, even though I've taken issue with a lot of the aspects of his writing that I've outlined elsewhere in this thread, I wasn't so frustrated with him that I wanted him fired until about six weeks ago because I wanted him to stay just for the sake of stability and continuity so does that mean all that time I was bitching about him back then I was really a "Hogan supporter" by default? LOL. Just wondering.

[ChiTownBoi03]

Yeah, it is important to stay positive. Although, the upcoming spoilers leave a lot to be desired, for me anyway

[Ryan]

I <3 you IMissAremid

For me, being a true fan or supporter or someone who likes someone can admit when that person is doing a good job or a bad job. You can't dilute yourself into blindly accepting everything they do as great. You're only cheating yourself and those who you're having a discussion with.

For every good thing Hogan and his team has done for the show, there is a bad thing to go along with it. The ability to admit that, and accept that the person in question isn't without fault, shows maturity and intelligence on behalf of the poster. No one is without fault/blame, not even those we really like.

[Andrew]

i Agree that that women are not used at all, and they are all so weak, Sami was a bitch for a long time now she is weak. Kate is probaly the strongest woman right know, but that is not much. Joan Crawford, Bette Davis, Barbara Stanwyck where all great actors, but they are not alive, i think the should somehow get Susan Flannery back as Laura Spencer Horton to the show, that would attract wiewers..............................

[Y&RWorldTurner]

I don't know what people expect of Ed Scott, because if we compare his Y&R run, Scott had LITTLE TO NO INFLUENCE on the writing and storyline content. For 90% of his run, William J. Bell was the head-writer and everything we saw on our screens was Bell's creative vision, not Scott's. Also, when Bell stepped down, it's well known that Kay Alden and Ed Scott HATED one another and she never listened to him, in fact, it's well known that Alden contributed to Scott's firing from Y&R in 2001. Needless to say, that was not a happy working relationship.

However, who knows what if Scott is involved in the writing content of this show? What's his relationship with Hogan like? Is Scott only involved in matters of production? There's a lot to think about...

[daysfan]

Okay, I think I want to just say it all right now.

Corday takes alot of blame, mostly for Winter, alot alot of blame, and mabye he takes blame now, but Hogan is NOT blameless.

Now I know Corday interferes, he takes alot of the blame for ALOT of the happenings in the past ten years, no matter who was writing. Such as 2001, Melaswan, Winter of this year, and probably more. He needs to learn to not interfere.

But Hogan takes a little blame for Winter, and a good amount for the Summer. I think, though Corday probably panicked alot, they should have thought out this DiMera story. To me, it looks like Corday saw his young people invasion failed, so suddenly he and Hogan had to come up with this huge Brady/DiMera story. Hogan makes nods to history, but it almost seems like he looked at history AFTER this was planned, and that is so wrong. I mean, Santo nor Colleen were ever mentioned before this except we saw Santo's grave in Italy. It looked like it was all just put together suddenly.

I find it hard to believe this was all over how their romance came to an end, and it is confusing. And suddenly these letters appear, and suddenly everyone is so avid about these two.

Sami should not have been front and center as much as she was, it was good for her to take a role, as was it good for EJ to take a role. But no Marlena? Marlena, Bo, Hope, Roman, and even John should have had HUGE roles. I also wish they hadn't kept Stefano so helpless and lying in beds and wheelchairs all Summer. At first, it seemed pretty good and sensible. After awhile, even though Andre has been excellent, it just seemed a bit...insulting, to keep the infamous man like that ALL through the feud. Also, Tony and Anna should have much much bigger roles. Tony needs to take way more of a role in trying to catch Andre, his arch foe. Though I did enjoy him coming up with the idea of Stefano's fake death.

TTS should have just never happened. Period. Stephanie should have been more of a supporting role, and Jeremy and Jett should have never even come to town. Nick, Chelsea, and Max just should have been backburned for awhile.

Hogan needs to work on continunity issues, as I mentioned before. Such as Jett and EJ being in the hospital for several days, while Sami who wasn't as injured as either of them is in there for weeks. Also I do not like the off screen stuff if it is critical.

I am a HUGE Hogan supporter and still want to see what else he can do, because yes some of it is Corday's fault, and I want to see how it is with Ed Scott there.

That is pretty much all....I don't think he should be fired quite yet, but he needs a GOOD replacement ready, and I can't really think of anyone good enough....

ETA: Sometimes I get irritated with how some characters treat women, such as harrassing them. Though, as IMA brought up once, that could be more Meg Kelly when she is SW. But also more importantly, going way back I am a tad irritated at how he made EJ Elvis Jr. and put him with Sami, as well as sometimes they throw the rape under the rug, when I really think they need to explore all that and not act like it never happened, though sometimes I have noticed Sami speaks of it, I believe.

[billyjill]

Actually I think in Days' case the recent testosterone-ification is a bit deeper ... The only ones doing their jobs on the show on a regular basis are the male cops (Bo, John pre-coma, Roman, and Steve in his honorary/vigilante capacity). Hope was a cop before Bo was! Yes she's a new mom, but yano, Bo's a new dad, it's perfectly reasonable to have them have equal time with the kid and equal time on the job. Marlena advising Carrie last summer I think was the last time I really saw her in a professional capacity, and that was under Milstein.

I think it's very clear that Hogan's a man's man and likes his manly men manning around doing manly man things. I have no problem with men being important and I was actually quite vocal against them being kind of emasculated in previous head writing terms ... but it shouldn't be this reactionary thing where now in retaliation women are kind of weakened. On this show, in the past 15 years or so, it has seemed to me that the only options for women are to be passive and simpering or bitchy and dark by rule. It's the whole madonna/whore dichotomy that has plagued depiction of women for a long old time. Between JER's cartoonish social conservatism and Sheffer's not-as-subtle-as-he-thinks affinity for counter-culture, the pendulum keeps swinging from one extreme to the other and nobody comes off as just plain human. And I think in the case of the depiction of women, it has had a snowballing effect over time. On the show we get prissy virgins and trashy sluts, ambitionless ditzes vs heartless bitches ... it's so binary. Which is disappointing, it really does affect things, we've had so many incarnations of uptight popular girl vs hip outsider girl, I'm just plain tired of it.

I fear that the depiction of women on the show will be directly related to the philosophy of the particular writer. If Sheffer doesn't listen to people it won't really get any better.

But I don't think that women won't watch a male character IE Roman get buried alive, it's more that the particular plot point doesn't really have sufficient build-up.

[IMissAremid]

Great post. And it reminded me of that comment from Sheffer a while back of "giving the men their balls back." The sad thing is his way of doing that seems to be weakening the women more than strengthening the men.

[daysfan]

It is all part of that thing I believe definately Corday and mabye even Hogan need to learn: Balance. Balance between the men and women and doing their job, balance between characters, and other things.

[ZaraB]

I tried to watch it a few times this week -- and I barely recognized it. I can understand that there should be turnover. The same show featuring the exact same characters as even five years ago might be an even quicker death -- but the only characters I saw driving story that I recognized were Sami, Lucas, and EJ. Hope and Bo were there, but obviously supporting Belle and Shawn. I saw a lot of teens, teens I didn't know. I saw Patch and Kayla supporting a story. I flipped onto ATWT, where I at least recognized Cady McClain as Rosanna.

[KSlater]

What da' heck! I'm adding one more post to this thread.

With so my opinions flying around the web about why Days is tanking, I decided to talk about this with someone who is a general fan of Days today. This person doesn't surf the web. In fact, she barely can figure out how to use a computer.

She's my 74-year old mom.

So I asked her what she thought was wrong with Days. She's been watching on and off since Doug and Julie were the hot couple. She'd taken a few years off from the show, but is now back to watching regularly. She's lukewarm about the show right now, but there is one story holding her interest.

I told her about the ratings being in the toilet, the blame game and the discussions going on on the various websites and posters' theories about what has gone wrong with the show. I told her about one view that is gaining steam is that lack of a story for the big four -- Bo, Hope, John and Marlena -- and the focus on younger characters was the main reason for the ratings fall--in other words, a lack of balance.

She thought about it for awhile and said, "No. That's not it."

"The reason no one is watching is because the stories are crappy."

Her thoughts about balance -- "who cares!" (her words, not mine). She's old and blunt OK.

"Doesn't matter who is on. If the stories stink, the show stinks."

She then said that Days needs to learn how to keep the show fresh. Both of us today just watched the latest episode of EastEnders and we were blown away by how fantastic the show is right now--and interestingly enough, almost no characters that are being featured were on when we first started watching (in 2000). Between Days and EE, there's no comparison. She went on to say that Days should take a page from EE's playbook. Number one: write good stories. Number two: Kill off characters that no longer work, but make the departure of those characters lead into new stories with new characters that seamlessly moves on from the old. And when characters are written off the show, keep them gone. Days hangs onto to storylines and useless characters way too long.

The only story holding her interest is the Sami/EJ/Lucas triangle. She likes all three characters and won't be upset about whoever Sami ends up with.

She also mentioned Nick as a character that she really cares about. But she also said, "Who cares about the kids (China Lee's children) -- get rid of them. They serve no purpose. Why not give Nick a decent story that makes sense?" She also thinks that Jeremy and Jett should fly far away. The DiMeras -- she likes them but would like to see a better story. She also really wants to see Kate and Roman rekindle their romance and wonders why the show isn't making more of a story out of an Anna/Kate rivalry.

Write better stories, get better ratings.

Anyway, that's one non-analytical view from the non-messageboard world. I do have to say that my mom might not be the typical Days viewer though. This is a 74-year old woman who counts David Lynch's "Blue Velvet" as one of her favorite movies of all time.

[aMLCproduction]

I do agree that Sami is very tired. Boring almost. Jett, EJ, Jeremy, all newbies, thrown into Major stories, and we don't know who these folks are.I keep saying it, Get rid of Hogan and bring on Jack Smith but very good topic and posts