Roman

I KNEW IT!!! He rails against racism, saying that he never saw any.....AN

­D NOW THE JERK COMES OUT SAYING RACE HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT!! WASN'T HE PROUDLY SITTING IN THE BACK OF THE BUS?!?!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/01/herman-cain-accusations-race_n_1070564.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

I wouldn't take Wolf Blitzer's word on ANYTHING, but beyond that, I wouldn't say Romney is a political weakling. The media worships him, they always have (I remember one reporter gushing over how just being in the room with his masculine strength made them go aflutter), he has tons of money, and he's a robot. The media love Republican Presidents because it fulfills their insecurities about "strong father" and look, there's GWB in his flight suit, isn't he a stud, and so on.

It says a lot about Romney that he hasn't closed this up yet. Everything has gone his way.

Romney is just so bad that they are flocking to these people who cannot possibly win a general election with how many people they have turned off.

You know, I can't take a break. I love talking politics. But this mess is something I am not getting into anymore. I did that 3 years ago, and am really ashamed of how I acted back then. So, on with the circus!

http://redsfan.newsvine.com/_news/2011/10/19/8402883-south-carolina-gop-operative-admits-suppressing-black-vote-is-goal-of-voterid-law

Did I see Cain singing at a press conference today? I don't know if the charges are true or not, but the way he has handled the response does not help him right now. He and his team better get their heads on the same page and try their best to got out in front of this thing.

http://politic365.com/2011/10/20/silencing-south-carolina-voters/.

I am now going to talk politics with anyone else whop wants to talk politics. This response of your Max is exactly the reason why i did not want to start posting in this forum again. I responded to your comment, and I responded in a respectful manner. I personally, IMO, cannot say the same about you my friend.

I'll just take a little break, like others have, and maybe when things calm down a bit, I'll come back so we can talk about politics once again. I really hope that will be soon.

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Here's the full story:

http://politicaltick...riate-behavior/

These allegations are very serious. However, the thing that always makes me LMAO is that partisans/ideologues have a complete double standard when it comes to these things: When a member of the opposite political party is accused of such behavior, the assumption is usually made that such allegations are likely true; yet when a member of one's own political party is accused of such behavior, these allegations are immediately decried as a "political witch hunt."

Now after having made the above statement, I would not at all be surprised if (1) I am accused of pandering, or (2) presented with an argument that such allegations are more serious when made against GOP politicians because they impeached Clinton "for having an affair" (even though that is a blatant re-write of history, since Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath).

Well, I'm just proud that you know how people in one party or the other acts and how they determine how to fall on certain issues. I wish I had that power, my friend. LOL!

Also, and this is just me, but if we are to be honest about this, ALL of these politicians say one thing and do another. Now, I personally can't remember the last time a Senate Minority Leader spoke and said that the chief goal of the RP is to make the current POTUS one term. Not jobs, mind you. Not social issues, such as defunding PP, or signing a pledge not to raise taxes (on the top 1%), or suppressing the vote in the southern states, Or not wanting to work with this POTUS on any issue (when first being for it before this POTUS said he agreed and then going against it). This list goes on and on.

Now, i have and will continue to call out POLITICIANS. I don't care what party they are from. But if there is fairness when politics are discussed in this forum, then why is it that it's always one side or the other. Both parties are involved in this mess that THEY have gotten us into. My biggest hope is that the voter realizes who has been on their side and who has been taking care of the richest or the rich (and where are the jobs with the $2 trillion they all are sitting on?) and vote in their best interests, instead of believing whatever is being pushed on CNM.

Sexual harassment charges now being leveled against Cain. No response came until late this past evening. Four women charge him with SR from 20 years ago. Signed confidentiality agreements and took money to stay quite.

The stuff coming out of these candidates' mouths really has me saying....how do you honestly think that you will win a general election with the truly horrible things you have said? Romney has lied so much he can't remember what flip-flops go to what, Newt is trying to make himself the Elder Statesman, with all the garbage he has done, Bachmann's own TP is demanding she drop out (after her entire crew in NH walked out on her), then there's Cain....my goodness. Someone needs to tell him to just sell his books and then go away.

I now cannot help but LMAO every single day at this freak show. LOL!

Be who you are. But also, when myself or Brian or anyone else makes a comment that you might not agree with, please, don't get so defensive. In your response to me, that is what it seemed like, but Brian reaffirmed they same thing that I was saying, and also he was consistent with what he said to you. We are all trying to have a civil, yet passionate discussion on the politics of the day. If this is going to regress into the shouting matches we had 3 years ago...that truly would be a shame.

Oh, Max, I'll be the judge of what's intellectually honest and what are blatant lies. Don't mean to offend, but that statement did come off as rather arrogant to me. JMO.

So, IYO, because MSNBC is marketed to 'liberals', they should be held to a different standard than the other two? And, once again, Max, you are painting everyone with a truly wide brush here. Limbaugh, O'Reilly and others have called themselves entertainers, not journalists, and yet, the ones you mentioned only come from Hollywood. If they are Americans, do they not have the same rights and privileges that we all have under our Constitution?

I'm trying to be fair here, but I'm starting to see a little bit of what Brian is talking about.

Well, let's see.

My problem with some of these remarks is that, I don't know many conservatives. I just know the ones I have seen or heard on television or the radio, and those I have read in print. I will try not paint a whole group of people by what a small group of those same people say and do. To myself, that is, arrogant presumption. As far as Buffet, one, do you know beyond a doubt that he doesn't make charitable contributions, Max? he has made these in private. Because he does not advertise these contributions does not mean he doesn't make them, yes? As far as MSNBC, there are two other CNNs who either have corporate owners or have international interests who have a big monetary stake in their companies (FOX NEWS). The same people who are railed against on the networks own a chunk of RM stock in News Corp.

I will always have deep difficulty in any political party that says one one hand, "we want small government" and on the other, creates legislation that will do nothing more than curtail the rights of many Americans. We have a CNM who helped intensify the war beat ten years ago, who then flipped and said it was wrong to invade Iraq without any culpability on their part.

That is where we as a people step in.

We are the bosses. We are the ones charged with keeping our government and the Forth Estate honest and above board. Maybe if we found out what and who these people truly represent, and stop with the broad paintbrush (of which I have used myself), we can truly fix many of the problems we ave.

I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on the animal catastrophe in Ohio, or the Gaddhafi stuff.

There's something behind that Ohio thing. That just doesn't sound right. Was it suicide or was he murdered? And was it him who let those animals out?

As for today's killing in Libya....what's goes around comes around.

Well, Brian, I'm not taking up for anyone, because there are people in this thread and on this board who I KNOW can speak for themselves. LOL But, one thing I learned and have tried to apply is that politicians are people just like us. Flawed, yes Lord. But I personally can't paint everyone of them with a broad brush. John Huntsmann is a man that, even though I don't agree with all his views (and no one will always agree with anyone else 100% of the time) he is what feel the Party needs to regain a foothold in politics. A moderate voice whose willing to call out he own party. He gets no play from the CNM and, because his views maybe are more to the center than those running for POTUS, he seems like some outsider who could never do a good job helping the American people.

I find myself a center-left person in my political ideas, but I now don't just say "all liberals" or "all conservatives" because that would be wrong. I never had and will not vote for any of these candidates running, because there isn't one thing any of them have said that even remotely reflects my POV. All politicians pander, but to just say anything and hope something sticks is not a person who I want in the big chair with their finger on the button.

As a vox populi, we all need to hold all elected officials accountable for any and everything, regardless of if we agree with then or not. JMO. I feel once a person can truly do that, I will listen to what they have to say.

And......I will also listen if they keep the personal attacks out of the discussion, which is what I did myself and which I saw certain members do 3 years ago. I this thread...it may not help you make your point.

Just saying.

And Max, those that you named are, IMO, dong somewhat the very same thing as FN, who openly helped and praised the TP, not to mention holding events for them, and defending their actions. This is the right of every American to civil disobedience. The very same things were said about of another group who protested for fair treatment and justice....

The Civil Rights Movement.

But, you did admit FN stinks to high heaven. I applaud you for that.

Well, it's not the same thing though. MSNBC reported the OWS story. Fox created the Tea Party story.

I know. I'm just making the point that one side can't be called out while the other side is left unchecked. Plus, MSNBC didn't start covering OWS until three to four weeks later. They had started in mid-Sept., and the only coverage I saw was on HuffPo.

Now max, let's call it down the middle. Fox actively promoted the Tea Party for the last year or so. Now, I'm trying to call this down the middle, but Max, if you're going to call out MSNBC, then be fair and call FN out as well. Now, you get on posters who you say are one-sided in their political views, but your statement about MSNBC seems rather one-sided considering you did not mention FN doing the very same thing. All I ask is let's be fair and call it down the middle. there is already enough of this division going on in American politics. All of them need to be held accountable, not just one side or the other.

It just baffles me that this country still thinks changing the party in office is going to fix anything. Clinton was Democrat and he made his share of mistakes. Then we had Bush the Republican who f*cked up immensely. So we went back to a Democrat, who hasn't done much of anything. No one sees the pattern? No sees that it doesn't matter if we shoved and Independent in there, the problems still exist. They're not going to go away. And a party stay or change isn't the answer.

IMO it's the system that's broken, and it's been broken for a long time. Doesn't matter if it's a Republican or Democrat at the helm, we're flawed from the inside out, not the outside in.

For the record, I'm registered as an Independent, but I am without a doubt an issue based voter. This isn't about parties for me; I think party politics has helped get this country into the trouble that its in...so it doesn't matter to me who is on each parties card when it's said and done. If I like one of their ideas, I vote for them. If not, I don't put in anything. I'd rather not vote for a candidate than have a party tell me who to vote for.

IA 1,00%. To me, Congress is the problem. Always has been. They are like children who don't get their way and blame each other instead of themselves. The Democrats have no spine or backbone, and the Republicans have been hijacked by the Tea Party.

The Anita Perry comments were absolutely laughable, especially her statement that God told her that her husband should run for president.

The Wall Street protesters are the Tea Party of the left. But when the Tea Party organizes and holds rallies, they are classified as uncivilized, rowdy, and disrespectful. However, in the mainstream (non-Rupert Murdoch) media--which many Democrats insist has no liberal bias--rarely (if ever) are such terms are used to describe the anti-Wall Street crowd.

What's even more baffling is that the Wall Street protesters are all fired up and ready to support Obama's re-election. While Obama is doing a great job at pandering to this crowd, the fact of the matter is that he has taken tons of Wall Street money for years (and has relationships with Wall Street lobbyists). If the anti-Wall Street crowd wants somebody who truly believes in their cause, they should support Dennis Kucinich, Howard Dean, or Bernard Sanders. (I purposely did not mention Ralph Nader as a realistic option, since these people hate him more than they hate Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld combined.)

Well, IMO, all politicians take big money from Wall Street. The last POTUS did it as well. See, it's just not one side with me, and that seems to be the on-going speech. It's one side or the other. I feel that one side deserves the lion's share of the responsibility for where we all are at right now, but both parties are to blame. The TP crowd held rallies every day, stood on the steps of the Capital building yelling and screaming at members of Congress, using racial and homophobic epitaphs, and carrying guns to events. And American has the right under the Constitution to civil discourse and peaceful assembly. Not just any group who I or others happen to agree with. There are now some in the RP who are talking about their hygiene, calling them Marxists and socialists, and making out to be some type of anarchist group. Instead, they should be listening to these Americans and find out what they really want (even though they've been saying it since September).

I am so happy and glad to see the majority party assemble and tell not only DC both the world that we are really sick and tired of members being sent to DC to line their own pockets and sell out the country at the expense of either being re-elected or to Big Fill-In-The-Blank. I just see none of the candidates for POTUS winning if they continue to run on social issues instead of economic issues. They need to stop saying "It's all Obama's fault" and come up with some solutions of their own that actually include getting people back to work, and maybe reversing NAFTA and returning many of these jobs back to the States (Clinton should have never signed that bill). But, if they want to keep talking about the POTUS in personal terms instead of what they will do, keep going.

It's not enough to say you should vote against the other person...you have to give the people someone to vote for. They just don't get that.

I do give you credit for calling out AP. Saved me the time in doing it.

Well, max, like I said, we will strongly see it differently. Yes i had a problem with Byrd's racist past, but I find myself having very serious problem with the bigotry of the Republican Party now. I've done my research, follow my politics every day, and they just don't make me comfortable to join that tent. Not at all. I defend and push the right for any gay American to marry or join our Armed Forces. I'm not asking who someone sleeps with or who they want to marry when it comes to defending our nation. I'm also waiting to see and hear where the RP's jobs' bill is. or, telling us some solution about getting the vast number of Americans back to work without including tax cuts for, everything, and cutting programs which they say are entitlements. Yes they are....they entitle people to survive. Do they need to be reformed? Hell yes. There are those who get benefits who don't need them at all. But many, many Americans do, and if we are still waiting on the Top 1% to create jobs (I would still like to know where they are), we are done for.

I blame both parties, but I put more of the blame on Republicans more than Democrats. Here is a bill that not one Republican voted for even though many pieces of legislation that was in there they backed, until Obama said he was for it as well. Is defeating him more important than the future of our country?

Brian, I concede that some of my messages are contradictory, and you have every right to call me out on it. The reason why I mentioned the fact that there are racists in the GOP was because if I did not do that, some liberal on this board would have likely chimed in and "reminded" us just how much the GOP hates black people. (Thus, you could say I was shamefully pandering.) The fact that Cain is doing so well is proof positive that the GOP is not a party full of racists (as I previously stated).

As you mentioned, there are indeed racists in the Democratic party. For instance, the late Robert Byrd--who served as Senate Majority Leader as recently as the late-80's--was once a member of the KKK. However, liberals had no problems with Byrd's racist past. This is in stark contrast to how they treated Trent Lott after he made his infamous comments at Strom Thurmond's 100th birthday party. With Democrats, the song is always the same: liberals who have a racist past are completly reformed, but conservatives with such histories still hate black people with the same intensity.

However, I do regrettably belive that there are probably more racists in the GOP than in the Democratic Party, and this is not pandering on my part. (But the percentage of racist Republicans as a whole is relatively small.) However, when the Democrats suggest that the Republicans captured the South mostly on issues of race, such a statement is very simplistic on their part. The fact of the matter is that Republican dominance in the South is also due to the Democratic Party's leftward position on other social issues such as gun owners' rights, abortion, and school prayer.

Well, you and I will just see things very differently. I will not vote for any Republican candidate. The bigotry that most of them that I have seen to have is really sad. That's from Herman Cain, to Rick Perry and so forth. Also, i personally can't say that the percentage of racist Republicans is small. IMO, it's too large to consider anything else that comes from the Republicans that I have seen in the public eye. To add, the Democratic Party had a shift starting in the early 1950s with Harry Truman running for his second term. the Dixiecrats left the Party and joined the Republican Party after being Independents because Truman made a stance for civil rights (as he spoke of during a speech to the NAACP) and the Dixiecrats would have none of that. To also add, I am one Independent who has voted Democrat who had a problem with RB's racist past. I also seem to remember that he atoned for it in his later life and, judging by his voting record up until his death, seemed to me to have made strides in making changes in his life. To say that liberals had no problem....well, I don't purpose to know all liberals like I don't know all conservatives, so I will not say what any of they think or do.

The GOP, IMO, has a very big problem right now in where they have taken the Party. A moderate voice is no longer welcomed in that party. John Huntsmann maybe the only Republican I would consider for the GOP ticket, but he has been shoved down so much by the MSM and his own party because of some of his moderate views, on top of going after his own party for some of the rhetoric that has been coming out the past years. These candidates and the Party in general needs to regain a much more moderate voice, if they have any chance of climbing out of the hole they've dug themselves into. I really hope they can, because with this US Congress we have now, we need more voices of moderation instead of what the nation has been getting.

JMO.

Sounds like to me the majority class are sick of it and will not take it anymore.

Well, for me, Obama's presidency could have won or lost in the first 6 months. IA with not going after the Bush Admin for war crimes. All that would have done is bogged down the country in a needless back-and-forth, and would have made legislating impossible (even though I still feel Cheney should serve the rest of his life in prison). But, in trying to work with Republicans, he did serious damage to himself. I completely understand trying to work with both sides of Congress, but the people wanted to see him take charge, make the right decisions &, win or lose, come out on the side of the American people. he instead decided to make speeches, say one thing and then behind closed doors do another, and seem like he was going after one group of voters (Independents) than governing for the entire country.

With that said, I still will vote for him. There is entirely too much baggage for any of the current candidates to change my mind, with the things that have been said and done by these people over the past 6-7 years or so, more or less. Rick Perry? No way. The voters in his own state can't stand him. Also, as with him, there is this class warfare that will win one if these candidates (most likely Romney) the nomination, but will be disastrous in the general election. they have turned off so many sections of our country that I say to them "How do you think you will get the votes of the people that you actively rail against in a general election?"

The Republican Party really needs to find the middle ground again. Hell, there are some, if very few, Republicans that i would vote for. But the ultra-right wing has hijacked this party. Until that changes......I personally don't see it getting any better for that party.

Hi everybody! Just wanted to say what's up. And....I will discuss politics with anyone who wants to in a good natured manner. i see that is what's been happening. I hope you all are doing well. Have a good day.

Ted Kennedy dies.

The end of Camelot.

R.I.P., sir. Your job is done.