Mitch

15 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

The idea of a bomb under the bassinet strikes me as stupid, cheap, garbage, plot-oriented writing, not interesting or exciting. It's the type of writing that made me give up on certain shows over the years

I'm okay with a bomb under the bassinet..once in a while...remember the days when it was during sweeps week and there were months and months of lead up to that bomb, and why we should care...(I remember on AMC Ray Gardner had planted a bomb in the Martin's basement on Thanksgiving or Christmas and it was very, very tense...(even if we knew AMC was not going to kill the Martins and their friends on a holiday) as we knew the characters and there was a lead up to it.  Soaps forgot self control and pacing..so Reva was in danger every other week and we could care less.

15 hours ago, titan1978 said:

But they always had a human story going while the action adventure stuff was going on.  Characters like Bobbie, Tony, Lucy, the Quartermaines, the Webber family- they were rarely in the full mix of the action storylines and were often involved in hospital stuff, affairs, raising families, etc.

This..that is why shows had a "boring" core family like the Hughes and Bauers. They were aspirational (upper middle class professionals) but not out of reach (mulit billionaires) and they had "normal" lives that helped ground the show. Being raised on the PG shows it was still easy to get into Monty's GH as they had a core family, celebrated the holidays, etc. I read once Monty wanted to fuse "Irna Phillips with the Edge of Night".

15 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

remember tuning out of ATWT after some godawful scene with Carly trapped in a toy chest hamming it up while the house burned down

I would be rooting for the fire..I can't imagine Carly would be in danger when she can chew the scenery and chew her way out of that toy chest.

Again, when Phelps has good writers and lets them write she can be good. A couple of years of her GL were perfect soap and it did balance big events with the Bauer kitchen. It was when Curlee left and Deas started eating the show that GL died.

11 hours ago, Bill Bauer said:

 

Thank you very much for that explanation, lilyredd. That makes sense the way you told it. I forgot about Martin Guest. I guess I was confused as well by the two suicides of two men connected to Lucinda who were never seen on the show. 

I never understood why Lily's name was Walsh and not Guest. I wish Lisa would have gone back to her old ways and when she found out why Martin killed himself...she exposed the truth..not worrying about Princess Lily. Or at least blackmailed and taunted Lucinda. 

I do remember Lucinda getting calls asking for "the widow Guest" which was the intro to Iva..though why was she doing that?

On 6/20/2021 at 6:05 AM, lilyredd said:

The couples here lack heat or joy or fun. I can see why Zenk enjoyed the writing for her character in later years. Here and so often with some of her pairings she looks so earnest instead of joyful. It must have been freeing to just play.

 

This totally describes Marland's ATWT..not only do the couples lack those two attributes but the families do too. Everyone seems to be together because they have to be, not that they like each other or have any deep bonds.  That's why Longs and Curlee's GL was so much better then ATWT..despite it not being structured as tightly as Marland would do or use history as much...ATWT is the friend you invite to the party because you would feel guilty if you didn't while GL was the friend you wanted to be there as you don't know what might happen.

13 hours ago, wonderwoman1951 said:

and while i had my issues with hogan schefer as headwriter, i have to give goutman credit for  casting scott holryod as paul ryan. but two years later, after former abc exec, barbara bloom, replaced lucy johnson at cbs daytime, holryod is fired and roger howarth — todd on one life to live — takes over. 

Babs Bloom is the entire root of all evil in the later years. Not only in casting...(ABC actors and can anyone forget the paunchy guy from Port Charles playing Dylan Lewis..no mention of Bridget and of course he was in love with Harley and he had no chemistry with anyone...) but because he was a frustrated writer, with ideas...like the infamous Clone!

"Didn't Bette love Lisa Brown on GL and want her to play her in a biopic?"

She did write her fan letters and said that Nola was the kind of part she would have played when she was younger. Bette also loved Eileen Fulton's Lisa...saying she was like an old time movie star in how she dressed and acted (which is weird as Bett wasnt into glam.)

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

On this board, I heard that she had problems with Beecroft but I honestly assumed it was a case of two actors that had chemistry onscreen and just rubbed each other the wrong way off screen, or that Beecroft rubbed Melanie the wrong way. Her account makes me think that his behavior was really disrespectful towards her and he breached her boundaries, and that it got so bad that she sought intervention. Really disturbing.

It really is too bad if true...Beecroft seems to have been his own worst enemy. I guess now I know the answer of why they never brought him back to GL..they needed a leading guy in his age range and really, why have Buzz Cooper when you have Tony Reardon...(I always wondered what the chemistry would be between he and Zimmer and there was no way Kimmer would put up with THAT crap!)

On 6/15/2021 at 6:11 PM, Liberty City said:

Question: Had Christopher Goutman not replaced Felicia Minei Behr as executive producer, who would you have liked to see named?

Good question..not a clue for an answer. But as much crap as Goutman (rightly) gets..I don't think he was the major problem in the early years..I think MADD was more of the issue in trying to turn both GL and ATWT into ABC soaps era 1980s.

12 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

The stuff about Lisa Brown doesn't surprise me. About 8 years ago, a friend who worked behind the scenes at ATWT and GL described Lisa and Martha Byrne as being the "mean girls" on the World Turns set.

I can see that about Brown..I have read other people write about her on the set..what may be seen as bitchy and aloof might be a focus as one of the actresses said...but out right mean? Maybe that's why Kobe and Long minimized Nola, though she had more story left ( I would have killed off Quint as that was a one way road that ended..) But Martha? I read that she was the one who kept the morale up during the years after Marland leading up to Goutman and TPTB were grateful for that...(didnt last forever as we see how Goutman treated her.)

52 minutes ago, gimmetoo said:

In today's Locher...

 

Carolyn admitted Lisa Brown was not welcoming when she joined GL.  She placed the blame on herself saying she was intimidated by Lisa...but admitted that her pairing w/ Tom Nielsen didn't endear her to Lisa. Kristen V confirmed Lisa was always very "focused."  

Ohhhh..that MORGAN..still at it after all these years!!!

7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Yes, that is the main complaint I would have about Vigard's casting in that if you think about it too long, the pairing with Kelly is very questionable - I can't even remember if she was 18 when they first had sex (I know this was seen as no big deal at the time, but still...). I think the story would have worked more as a mistake on Kelly's part, with Morgan getting her heart broken and ending up together with Tim, or a new boy around her age. 

 

(with that said, I know the Morgan/Kelly/Nola story was very popular and Morgan and Kelly had a lot of fans - and I do think their wedding is lovely) 

 

I also liked Toby Poser as Amanda, I just thought they did her very dirty with the writing, especially the jabs at her hair. 

I remember Charita of all people saying something about Morgan being underage or too young in the press about it, and she seemed to not be a prude and never said negative things about the show. Yea, I know it was a fantasy that Marland minded later to have a kind of normal plain girl have this hot older guy in love...but as opposed to Lily and Holden it just seemed to be like..."Uh, this guy with this girl who looks like a pre teen boy..there has gotta be something else going on!"

Poser was one of the few people who had good chemistry with Marj, and their sparring was fun as opposed to just unpleasant with Marj screeching at whichever Mindy was around that day.  Again, I just wish she was another character. Alan or Ed's kid with Rita or if they wanted the Malibu Madame thing (which was dumb) a past lover of Alan's who he knew would drive Alex right up a wall, but then she has ideas of her own on how to grab power. I see Amanda as a younger Bev Alex..not above playing a game but for what she thinks is the greater good. Plus, it was always untapped potential for Amanda and Phillip to vie for power.

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Yes, Vigard had a very real screen presence, as well as chemistry with everyone. I found Morgan to be petulant and abrasive, but with KV in the role, I still wanted her on the show. When Jennifer Cooke took over, the character became pretty useless. 

 

Oh lord..Morgan...the prototype for Lily...EVERYONE is town was concerned about this petulant annoying girl. I gotta say..I thought the actress was a bit..uh...sexless..which to me made it look like overly muscled speedo boy was confused about his sexuality but maybe that is hindsight for me with JWS. But I was in the minority as those two were popular.

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I agree, although Cullen was always good. Compare her nuanced portrayal to that of her replacement. 

Alright now you crossed the line with dissing Poser : ) To be fair, she was really a totally different character at that time..and unlike say, Marj. who was not really playing the Alex we knew...I never liked the previous actress or how the character was written...(I can't get those damn dolls and her little girl clothes out of my mine...go Lucille GO!!) I do agree she was good as what the charcter was at that time...a pale girl who grew up in an attic and had no voice of her own, but I would have written her off too at that point to bring her back a few years later as stronger and more sophisticated and able to play at the table with Alan and Alex.  I do agree that Poser's Amanda, as much as I loved her was ridiculous in connection to what came before..I would have just had her been another character to be another thorn in Alex's side.

14 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Mark Evans was another one of those characters whom I was not sorry to see go. Watching the Mona Enright mess, I always thought that the story was such a mess because the writers had no idea where they were going with it.

That suffered from Marland starting it and the various writers not know what the hell he was going for. Plus, I am sorry, but I find Pinter skeevy no matter what he plays..really Colleen..really???

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Nice summary of what I was trying to say. Sometimes I know I use too many words. Occupational hazard.

Also, it was only two years ago that P&G was out there trying to promote the idea of "Choose Your Own Adventure" programming via streaming where they would produce content that sounded a lot like television shows.

They probably didn't really mean any of it, but the fact that they mentioned it, said a lot. 

P&G cut up into little pieces is still P&G...if they cannot totally control something they are out.  Not interested, etc.

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Can we get a cameo from Marie Masters?

And Kathy Hays..one last throw down to go!

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Many viewers seem to become ultra-fixated on their favorite performers/characters/romantic pairs; sometimes beyond all reason. I cringe when they wax on poetically and endlessly about how this actor or that character is "my reason to get up in the morning, the center of my entire universe!"

Ha..yes, weird. I remember her (I believe it was her..)going to one of the GL Fan Club Events and saying she met the Mel actress who was nice...but she didn't know who she played??? I mean, I HATED Buzz, the Santos and anything San Crud but I knew who those people were in relation to the story...reminds me of when they killed Richard a fan almost got hit by a car as she was so distracted he was leaving, or Della, who was this HUGE Gush fan and would disparage anyone else's opinion on their domination of the show and the changes and would tell people "real" fans would shut up, who almost threw herself off a cliff when Gus died..and "Ill NEVER watch this show again!" (scary that I remember all these people but damn if I can remember someone's birhtday!0

16 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

In one of his latest tweets, however, PM seemed to imply that he did not see the death of Maureen Bauer as serious as the death of other characters on TGL like Nadine Cooper and Ross Marler, and the elimination of Michael Zaslow from the canvas immediately upon his diagnosis.

Well, he did give Charita a back handed compliment that when she went from the "star" of the show, to the worried Mom and Grandma to everyone's supportive mother figure,  who takes coats, she committed to it. Obviously not realizing we all thought of her as the star to the show and that being support and not being kidnapped and chewing scenery everyday does not lessen your impact. I don't know how Nadine's death was more important then Mo's (and while I felt the character was a useless copy of later Nola, I thought the death was disgusting) but again, he, like Marland was so tied into that family as an ideal replacement of his own (maybe) he has a different view.

2 hours ago, KateW said:

 

@FrenchBug82, @MichaelGL, @robbwolff There were some plot holes in the Annie story but I chalked that up to the various EP/HW changes from 1994-1998.

 

Going from what was on YT yrs ago

JFP (1994-1995): Annie was introduced as a nurse from Chicago that won a fellowship at Cedars. Annie was shown drinking wine at a restaurant and beer at a pool hall. Annie and Rick's first meeting at Cedars hinted they shared a past in Chicago.

Laibson/McTavish (1995-1996): Annie was shown at an AA meeting where she spoke of being sober for one year. It was revealed that Annie was married to Rick and the marriage ended over her drinking and the involvement with Jake. 

Rauch/E&B (1997-1998): Annie was married to Eddie Banks and Annie faked her death to escape drug theft charges.

 

Annie also had a grandmother who lived in SF and we saw her with her...(Marah ran away and followed her to her home) who we never saw or heard mention of again.

4 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

'm not on Twitter enough to know who this Candace is, but now I want to go investigate her other posts, LOL!

No....Candace is very nice but a bit of a FAN and most likely is a living example of the Focus Group mentality the show wanted to gear itself to...she used to go to all the old fan club events,etc.  I was referring to her old posts on the MD boards..I think...and she would go NUTS over LW's Cassie.. and seemed to watch the show just for her and Richard and all the latest "stars" of GL like Manny and Gush..she was so PISSED off when the new actress took over to play Cassie but posted taht she was "Winning me OVER..she sent me a personal NOTE..." which I always thought was..odd. I think she moderates the FB GL page and after I and a couple of other people responded to a post saying Jonathon and Buzz were unlikeable...(not the actors mind you) I got my comment wiped and she sent me. chirpy message explaining that the board was only for "Positive people who love GL.." kind of thing, which was fine, she was nice about it (though my comment was mild to say the least..) She just always pops up on social media about GL so ...of course Candace responds!

3 hours ago, Forever8 said:

Didn't Mulcahey created Buzz or had something to do with the creation of him? I think I recall if not I'm not mistaken he based him off his father? 

Yea, that is what I meant about father issues, which PM actually talks about on his Twitter. His father left him and his family behind and this was kind of PM's way of fixing the past and having the father come home and take responsibility..so its kind of like Marland's and idealized farm family thing.  PM seems really funny, smart and actually he is nice and appreciative of all the fans who respond but damn if I can not get his Buzz thing..you create a fantasy dad who is a loud mouth spitting, arm flapping clown???

17 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

 

 

The loud-mouthed irritant of Springfield himself, Buzz Cooper.

 

Other notable mentions: Roger Howarth as Todd Manning on OLTL and Franco on GH, Luke Spencer on GH, and...wait for it, Jean P's writing "talents."

 

Hold back my hair, I'm gonna hurl. LOL!

 

Thank God someone mentioned Roger Thorpe and Holly Norris!

 

I'm almost tempted to open my own Twitter account, to comment, but just reading the flame wars that ignite on that site are more than enough for me. 

Ha..I almost dug up my old Twitter account log in to reply...but why bother. Unfortunately the writers own daddy issues and his love for the actor almost tanked GL during that horrible year or two that it was all Buzz, all the time.  Of course, good old Candace had to chime in and agree with him...(its weird how you get to know these people from the message boards over the years...)

13 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

Pam Long wrote the Philip reveal. Marland did further stretch the story out from the original material the Dobsons provided.

 

I'm not sure I've ever seen a fan of theirs. Rumor is they were paired mostly because Lisa and Larry were together in real life at the time. The only interesting part is Emma's very hurt and bitter reaction, which is also another glimpse into Marland's increasingly dark (and for me more compelling) writing.

Well, while it was sad to see how watered down ole Johnny was by that point, and it was weird to see him with that boring drip...anything was better then John screwing Emma...ugggh, I remember a scene where he came down stairs and Emma comes rolling after him in her robe and says..."Lets go upstairs and we can rub our feet together to keep warm" and for some reason the image of Emma and John's feet rubbing together was the thing of nightmares!

21 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Who doesn't love a bride with a gun..lol..only on a soap. So who the hell did killed Diego? I wish they had left Holden off canvas and just do away with the Snyders.

15 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

And it signalled to the audience that, no, we were supposed to love Reva and root for her, not have a complicated love-hate relationship with her - which would have been more interesting and would have made Reva so much easier to swallow.

This is great...I LOVED original recipe Reva but even then she could be annoying..and as much as Long loved Reva..she understood it and had people who were not evil but snippy, like Alex and India give her hell once in a while but also other "good" people would sometime get annoyed...(my favorite was Billy, until he became "Reva Cheerleader" who always gave Reva hell in the begginning...)  Rauch made Reva the cartoon Vicki Lord of Springfield (with a dash of sex goddess thrown in...) whom everyone loved and she was always right...even Zimmer would make comments at that time that they were "Trying to turn me into Bert Bauer," and she is right..she has a scene with Dinah where she assures her that Vanessa knew all along that she would never do anything to intentionally hurt her, because "As a mother I know,"  (which is funny as she never had a chance to spend time with her kids being dead, then returned from the dead then fighting Josh, then mooning for Josh, then on trial for an assault on Annie.

11 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Annie could have had a similar situation with the door open to a return down the line..but left town with some dignity 

I don't mind Annie going out BIG, and I know that they wanted to make hay while the sun shines in ratings...but the ridiculous way..on a jet ski, hijacking a plane and then forciing the pilot to parachute out as she did to kill Reva...that's a lot of work for what a gun would do!  At least have her have some screen time with say, Lillian, or Rick to try to talk her down and to remember her real self..and she is just resigned.."Its too late," to give us some empathy and something for Watros to work with.

3 hours ago, MichaelGL said:

Not sure about the Eddie Banks exit for Annie; but didn't Annie and Rick also share a past? I always hoped they could've delved more into their history and maybe let her be a small thorn in Abby/Ricks side for years to come. 

Yea, agree, the Eddie Banks came out of nowhere and made no sense..besides giving Jeva an easy off...(they didn't contribute to anything..Annie was always EVIL!)  A better way was to somehow find out that Rick and Annie's divorce was not legal and that way give Reva pause as she was pulling Rick and Abby into her fight.  The connection of Annie to Rick and Ed (who was her sponsor) should have been there...maybe Rick could have seen the good in Annie much to Abby's annoyance..maybe Annie was preggers with Ricks kid and lost it as she was drinking...Ed constantly reminding Annie that she needed to go to meetings and her obession with Jeva was part of her addiction and Alan getting pissed off that Ed is interferring ("Once a Bauer always a Bauer") giving them some more conflict...tons of stuff. E & B was no good at the subtle B story stuff that made Springfield seem real and Rauch and MADD werent interested in anything not BIG!

31 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

As much as I morbidly enjoyed the Brent/Marion storyline, the show was pretty awful and their first year or so really shines.  There is a sense of community again, pairings with rooting value, and the Annie story is so much soapy fun and uses the right characters.  Josh is a little stupid at times, but nothing compared to the men on Reilly’s DAYS at the same time.

Jarsh I can always forgive for stupidity as we all know what organ he really thought with.   I did think Josh was always an ass...he really DID help in Annie's breakdown and I wish Reva would have seen that if life went a different way she could have become Annie..it would have given them more color and just more of an interesting dynamic..unfortunately it was the start of Reva become self righteous in her own right.

The first year was good..I thought they made some bad choices..I would have used the Jeffery Morgan wrap up storyline to usher Buzz happily off with Jenna..I would have kept Bridget and Nola...(maybe pair Nola with Jessie's dad..) I am the minority and LOVED Poser's Amanda but while they were stuck with the "Brandon" thing..they could have easily reversed it and thrown Amanda with Ben Warren...it was time for Marj's Alex to go but Amanda was not a replacemetn...An Ed recast would have been good but I would have gone with another actor and made him the glue to keep the town together and had him help Holly (again..I liked the Nursery Rhyme stalker..it wasnt supernatural or science fiction and it didn't revolve around REEEVAAA!)

11 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

It’s disappointing that they (and I’m sure Rauch) decided to lean towards his less grounded OLTL tenure after this, with the Clone and the mystery island and all that.

Yes..I think they are better at turning a soap around then the long haul..they had good ideas...(I actually thought Annie framing Reva was imaginative and character appropriate) bringing back Van and Ed, and starting a class struggle thing (Jessie's dad hating the Bauers) but those good ideas would be dropped to go back to the perils of Reva and Annie became a cartoon (and Alan her lapdog..)  Though I don't think it the Clone or the stupid Island from Hell was their idea..

12 hours ago, lilyredd said:

I loved characters like Lucinda -rich, complicated, weird, over the top, intense and bad. Like Dorian and Alexandra and Iris and Alexis. Just delicious and fun. Too often their stories, however, were just Lady Capulet retreads when stories involved their bland children. 
 

There are enumerable examples of Lily being awful in a quiet manner. The one that stands out is her telling Lucinda she wished she had grown up poor. The audacity of such ignorance with no blow back and the unwillingness of the show to call her out on that crap! My dad lost his hearing as a kid because he couldn’t get proper medical care and cannot afford new hearing aids right now because my mom needed dental surgery. It was such a gross statement.  Strangely, the show could have granted her that wish later. She dumped all the stock Lucinda gave her and got rid of her trust fund during the disaffirming her illegal adoption (another nonsense move- it was illegal nothing to disaffirm.)  While she would never truly know poverty, I would have enjoyed seeing her not be secure in her finances and for her mother to stop gifting stock to someone who did not appreciate it.

 

They had Phillip Spaulding act the same way..however, Long and GL took the trouble to show that it was just a romantic fantasy (living as a poor writer) and not a reality that Phillip could have lived with for long, and he actually would get blow back from Alan...especially when he too wanted to revoke his adoption.  Marland seemed to romanticize his rural background...not only that, I grew up in Oakdale land (central Illinois) and most of the farmers I knew were not living hand to mouth or even in gentile poverty like the Snyders supposedly did. ..(though they seemed to time warp from the 1930s..) I agree..lets see Lily live poor for a year or two..like real poor, not working in a diner and not having any expenses poor.

it would be interesting to see why Marland was so fixated on Lily/Martha.  I can see why Kreizman fixated on Jonathon (he wanted to be him) or Harley (he wanted to sleep with her) but a late middle aged gay man's fixation on a teenage character (who wanst that much fun to begin with) was weird.

11 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I can believe Marland sketched out Carly..but she would have lacked fire and personality if Marland wrote her.

True..she would have been worried about Lily's upcoming birthday! I wonder what Long could have done with Carly? I always wonder what Long could have done if she took over after Marland.

5 hours ago, DRW50 said:

Thanks. He still looks pretty good. Silly P&G/CBS execs, as always.

Wow..he looks damn good!!! Too bad soaps are still viable..he would make a great Alan Spaulding type patriarch now.