Mitch

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

God love closeted gay actors; they wanted to protect their jobs and careers. I imagine the same folks who bought that Liberace was straight accepted JWS was as well.

JWS I can see...(or as a bartender in my hometown once said..."Gay guys aint got muscles." ..uh..I guess you never saw a gay guy...) but Clarke??? I cannot see anyone who took MC for straight...(didnt she play Tina Lord on OLTL too????)

On 4/23/2021 at 10:55 AM, Soapsuds said:

Which Clark? Reading your post not sure who is who...lol

 

Marsha Clarke sp? was a mole for Marland...while being the most hilarious unbelievable beard for JWS..(and he for her!)

On 4/23/2021 at 10:55 AM, Soapsuds said:

Harley said that Kobe didn't allow the cast to attend Charita funeral. To which Ellen joked and said I liked Kobe.

On that I can kind of see as television production is expensive and daytime never stops. Its too bad that the funeral wasn't held later or at least a wake where the cast could attend...(I know KT mentions going so she must not have been filming that day.)

On 4/24/2021 at 4:10 PM, victoria foxton said:

He created Sarah and Rusty. But was long gone by the time they were introduced.

Sarah and Rusy were kind of like Billy and H.B. where a name is thrown out by one writer (this time it was Long) and another writer used them. I always thought Sarah should have been harder, tougher and trashier then how she was played.

On 4/24/2021 at 4:59 PM, 72Hearts said:

I think I am the only one GL fan who thought Daniel Pilon was a pretty good Alan. He could twist his mouth cruelly, which I rather dug.

I don't think he was bad..and I can see why they thought he could short term it for Bernau. He was better then Raines..who just looked "grouchy" when he was supposed to be evil Its too bad as watching some of the early RR and when he is at the Amish Farm he is kind of sexy..so I can see where they thought he would make a good rogue...but then he got...old so fast, and he just wasn't Alan no matter what.

19 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

For Bert, they mentioned *in passing* that Mike sang at her service, yet no Mike on screen. I know by then TPTB had burned bridges with actors like Stewart and Roussel, but I'm guessing if asked to appear to honor Charita, both would have done it. Or, if they were looking to finally bring the characters back in recasts, then this would have been the opportunity to do so. But, as @vetsoapfan stated, there were no close friends, no family other than Ed...just horrid.

This would have been the perfect time to re energize the Bauer Family.  They had Alan in the wings coming back so at the very least bring back a recast Hope (sorry, never was a fan of ER's annoying Hope) with Stewart's Mike, but ideally I would want to bring in a recast Mike to put him with Alex getting ready for Alan's return. I would have brought back Aunt Meta during the previous holiday episodes to establish her for Bert's death (say she was in New York visiting Hope) and not have three major Bauers recast. Meta as they had for a bit during Labine's time would be a great foil for Claire, alternating between ringing her beads and supporting her as she knows how it is to be black sheep in the Bauer family and a "conflicted personality." Ideally, I would have recast Ed with MH going into the service. Then at least bring back Bea (she makes a phone call which I am sure was Curlee's doing) and Brown was on ATWT give her a few days as Nola so at least some of the old guard was back (and she could have mixed in up with Claire in a scene) and have the Justin actor return to have a few scenes with recast Phillip...all returns which could have given some strength the to paper thin plots going on at that time.

I think Kobe didn't give a [!@#$%^&*] and Ryder had no GL connection so they used the excuse of "People will bitch and moan if we bring back recasts for the funeral so what can we do?" when in reality they could care less if people bitched. I can see being pissed at Clarke for making them film on weekends (Clarke was a pain in the ass to begin with and she was Marland's "mole" on the GL set to see what other actors said so I am sure she was an instigator in DM's problems with MH) so just write her out of town or better yet recast.

The show was such [!@#$%^&*] at that time that I think a new writer would say the infamous line of Gloria Monty..."I don't know what the hell to do with all of you but put you in a plane and crash it!"

10 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

Here's the episode where Lesley Ann dies from DD. I've seen very little of her. So i don't hate or like her. Josh treated her like crap. She had no chemistry with sweet goofy Floyd or bitchy Miss Andrews. 

Ha..was Warren Busy at the Company Muscle Boy contest as his beard was being bit by the mouse? Warren being straight was more unbelievable then the Dreaming Death, Brandon being alive, Infinity and the Clone all put together!

13 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

 

ITA. Its radio years were astonishingly well done and mesmerizing! Every soap fan should listen to  1950's run of Meta Bauer's trial for murder.

 

The on-screen "tribute" to Bert Bauer after the character died was badly written in the first place, but the entire situation was made significantly worse by the fact that the show did not bring back any of the actors who had worked closely with her. M O'L was there, but he was one actor among so many irrelevant newbies gathered at the Bauer house.

 

I must say, however, that the interview just linked for us brought tears to my eyes. Who among the audience did not love and cherish Bert?

Yea, Bert's memorial really put a glaring focus on Kobe/Long's huge changes and the impact it had on the show. They had Parker, O'Leary, JVD,Kinkaid, WR, and Terseau as the only people left who had really any scenes of impact with her..(they even had Judi Evan off screen for that dumb ass Sampson Girl thing...you would think she would be there for MOL and to bring her back closer to Phillip, and Bev was on not there, though Alex had only one scene with Bert McKinnsey spoke fondly and highly of Charita on an interview when she just left Texas, which focuses on both of their mutual dislike and annoyance with Ruth Warrick!!)  Not only the actors who werent there but it was glaring how the tone of the show had totally changed from an warm ensemble show to a cold, campy show dominated by Reva and the Lewis men and Kyle Sampson,and a bunch of newbies.

6 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Here's the link:

 

https://the1a.org/segments/guiding-light/

Great story!!! I loved that they used the 70th anniversary episode sound bite as Ehlers as Irna and Boque as a network exec. As much as I dis Wheeler, that was a great imaginative episode.

15 hours ago, j swift said:

It is funny that you should mention their chemistry because according to this article about his casting the chemistry was a key component to Bolger being cast

That is why they should have cast him as someone else and just had Phillip skip town to go looking for Alan when Alex tells him she thinks he is actually alive.  Here comes this new hungry exec at Spaulding (is there any other at the factory or evil) who conspires with and against India.  I mean, India chasing after that feathered haired blond bore Simon????

5 hours ago, Vee said:

have no doubt Ellen Wheeler cared. She just simply wasn't qualified or competent in that position.

This is it..you can work 24/7 but if you aren't capable and you make wrong choice (putting JVD on recurring) after wrong choice (thinking that weird assassin guy and Hillbilly Bonnie would make a super couple) there are no kudos for you. I am also sick of hearing that Peapack saved GL for a couple of years...who cares...it sucked and should have gone off the air if the net and P & G didn't give a damn anymore.  Hey she could have ended up filming people having sex in roadside park restrooms who wants to see it..oh yes, she did film people have sex in park restrooms..so..no..just enough with Wheeler, she is where she belongs right now.

5 hours ago, Faulkner said:

haven’t watched enough of that era, but did they play up any of Phillip’s mental fragility with JB in the role? That I can’t really picture...

No..he truly was as if Bernau had a kid..but that was the problem...Phillip wasn't Alan's bio kid!

14 hours ago, gimmetoo said:

Much time spent on the Peapack experiment...they offered a better appreciation of how inventive Wheeler was in trying to keep the show on the air.  Wheeler was seemingly dedicated and hard working…they even mentioned her pulling all nighters in the studio.

Wheeler truly DID care..but caring, and hard work unfortunately does not help if you just don't have the talent and you continue to make the wrong decisions. She was put in a situation where she couldn't win...Conboy screwed the budget, years of Rauch left the show in tatters and a lot of history unusable from that time (ya can't mention a clone and time travel, what are you left with, the mob and the island???) the Bauers were beyond resurrection, and she had to deal with MADD and the network which just wanted GL gone. However, a better producer could have worked with that and had a more presentable product. Its no mystery why she ended up as a line producer for right wing crap shows.

I would have freaked out to be sitting next to Reva Shayne on the bus!

21 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

And he had a certain charm in clips as Phillip. 

He was sexy as hell on AW, even though I didn't care for that show. He would have worked on GL as he had really incredible chemistry, really the only sexual chemistry MKA had with a man, on GL..if he was just cast as someone other then Phillip.  GA owned Phillip and Bolger came off more as more east coast formal then GA's midwestern golden boy. He shoudl have been a young exec at Spaulding working his way into Alex's good gracess and they should give Phillip a rest until GA could return.

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Damn. No wonder why Will cheated lol

 

And people really complained about this?

I don't know..the guy answering the question kind of was acting like he has bodies buried in the basement!

7 hours ago, Chris B said:

Seeing those ratings are interesting. I never knew GL suffered so much. No wonder they went to such lengths to get Kim Zimmer back. The one thing that is disappointing to see is that AW 100% could've survived if they had improved the quality of the show. DAYS was on the same network and if you look at their ratings, they shot up. If they could do it, AW could've done it. Unfortunately, the show had no vision from what I've heard of their 90s (I've only seen episodes from 70s-80s). I think had they agreed to give Harding Lemay a good two years in the early-mid 90s and just let him write, he could've not only fixed the show, but created stories with enough buzz to boost their ratings in the same way Jim Reilly did at DAYS.

Kimmer was back..this was the summer of McTrash as we lovingly called the producer and writer...it was a summer of Lonitrat..(Dinah convincing Roger he was going crazy) Alan trying to destroy 5th street and being bested by Buzz of all people, and poor Reva, stuck in the diner, begging Buzz for sex, and to top it all off,we got an angel as a character!

1 hour ago, Forever8 said:

 

I wish they had kept them fighting..though over something more interesting then Limp Richard.. They should have turned Cassie into a raving bitch (I mean, the kind the rest of the characters would notice) after Reva pulled the plug on Richie.

16 hours ago, j swift said:

That was another time, but I would hope today most writers and network executives would reject those types of portrayals of craven bisexual men as not the types of representation that we are looking for in soaps; which is why I would also not look forward to triangulated bisexual stories, the association of bisexuality and adultery is neither empowering nor respectful.

But isn't this kind of what is strangling any kind of story? Soaps have all kinds of people who are still considered "good" but have adulterous affairs.  I remember back during Curlee's run on GL where the black characters got to be "good" but not perfect..Gilly was ambitious and put career over a relationship, and she could actually play the same game that Roger and the Spauldings did, while not initiating it, she gave as good as she got in the subterfuge area. That would be intereseting to see in a gay character.   I have no desire to see another boring gay storyline like the ATWT.  I actaully thought Otalia was kind of interesting, besides the boring Natalia nobody thrown in there, as Olivia's voracious sexuality seemed to always be open to experimentation...(I thought they were going to write Jonathon that way for a bit but no..) and if the story continued I am sure they would be hamstrung and then write them out because they couldn't do the inevitable...Olivia would cheat on Natalia with a man or a woman as that is what Olivia does..not because she is bisexual..but becasue she is OIivia., but the fans of the couple and others would complain that it cast gay couples in a bad light. All couples, gay or straight don't need to be Chris and Nancy Hughes, or the storylines would dry up.

Edited to say, FrenchBug82 said it better then me! Totally agree.

12 hours ago, zanereed said:

I love your ideas for Poser, @vetsoapfan and @Mitchespecially this one above. I would have taken it a step further to make it more "soapy", with Poser's character coming to town thinking she is Alan's love child with Rita. Roger becomes suspicious of her claims and decides to have blood work done. To his shock (and delight?), Poser's character isn't a Spaulding, but a Bauer. Not only is she a Bauer, but the bio daughter of Ed! And only Roger knows this. I wonder if Lenore Kasdorf could have ever been persuaded to return at Rita? I think they wanted her to return in 1989 when Zaslow and Garrett came back, but she declined.

I love that idea! She comes back to find Alan who has left to go find Reva...(I would have had it that Alan didn't just happen to be driving thought Goshen and literally run into AmnesiaReva but a private eye firm found someone who may be her and he went to see for himself) and she is left dealing with Alex. While AM was all obsessed with the dullard Lucy she undermines him..Alex demands blood tests, Roger, of course, sees the results and fakes them, and while marrying Dinah for her trust fund ...with a hidden clause that he gets her money if she cheats...begins to ignore her and focus on the new girl in town, who he seduces to actaully get back at Ed...(eventually she would have a Bauer/Thorpe hellspawn as even intelligent sexually active people in SF never heard of birth control.)  I would even recast Rita if they needed to...and maybe LK would come back for a short term or sporadic appearances. Or just have her lie on her death bed and say she was not "sexually active" with Ed but was with Alan so it was his.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

t's always interesting to me how different viewers have such vastly opposing feelings on stories, characters and actors. There's nothing wrong with different opinions, of course, but sometimes they make me scratch my head. I thought Cullen's Amanda was absolutely wonderful, and adored her so much, whereas I loathed Poser's version.

Its not that I was wedded to Toby as Amanda...I just loved her and thought her vampy campy but not OTT take was fun. She played the humor and the pathos well. I do think they needed to bring back Amanda but not boring Cullen (all I can remember is her in an attic and not able to get it on with HotGayBen and the constant talk of her being "frigid." in bed) I would have someone age appropriate, classy, smart who could hint about her bad past (Poser's Amanda would NEVER be locked in an attic or not able to get it on with her hunky husband..but then, she would have figured out Ben was gay..) but that she came out of it. I would have had her replace Alex and her anger would be by being supplanted by her two younger brothers in her fathers' eyes. Then phase Alan and Alex out for the next generation as you can only watch round 280 of Alan vs. Alex.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

I always love your ideas, but for decades now, I have wanted Rita to have been pregnant when she left town, but with ED'S baby. She might not know for sure who the father is, but in the end, I wanted more blood Bauers to replenish that family, which had been so decimated in the 1980s. I even wanted Hillary's brother, Paul Kinkaid, to be outed as another of Bill Bauer's children. 

I like the idea zanereed, but she comes to town thinking she is a Spaulding, she is bad, she is greedy, she is sarcastic and fun..but then she finds out she is actually a Bauer!!! I wanted Ed to have a kid with Rita, who Roger found and adopted, or took under his wing to learn the wicked ways of Thorpe.  He lies to the kid and tells him Alan is his father who abandoned him to and raises him to get revenge on the Spauldings.  Rog was playing a long con though and the kid is actually Ed's. I thought of it as a boy but Poser would have been great..trying to fit in and have dinner in the Bauer kitchen smoking and rolling her eyes "No Michelle, I don't care about your love life, and Rick, your impressions really suck!" I could kinda see MOL and Poser as siblings with their curly dark hair.  That time in 95 when  they brought Poser on and Alan is off with Reva in Amishville woudl have been perfect for a fake illegitimate to come back and claim her piece of the puzzle all to find out she too was fooled by Roger. 

5 hours ago, zanereed said:

I think Hulswit and MOL would have visually looked believable as father and son. I never saw Simon and MOL that way at all.

Agree. And despite his annoying schtick..MOL did come off as a warm nice guy.

1 hour ago, vetsoapfan said:

I ended up becoming impatient with M O'L's mugging, and wished the show had cast a better actor in that should-be-vital role, however

God, I hated his mugging, and when he did the Bill Murray Caddyshack impression during a dream episode I could tell he thought it was hi-LARIOUS. They needed to reign him in and also, stay away from the drama. Rick should have been a nice, stable guy who had his act together instead of this looser in love.  However, when he was low key he was right on target.

22 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

I also refuse to acknowledge Poser's dreadful pod-Amanda, and the idea that she was Alan's sister. Just no. That was impossible according to what we had all watched play out on screen

I can undestand them wanting to fit Poser in somehow..she was great..but not as Amanda (and yes, I prefer her A then Cullen's dishwater dull Amanda..but the age thing was hard to get over.) Why not just give Alan a daughter that he had in San Rios as Poser was slightly younger then the AM actor so it would fit in that way. Plus she was one of the few sparring partners who had chemistyr with  Marj..and her Amanda made Marj's Alex less mean as she just rolled her eyes and flipped her hair at her.

Regarding Simon...yes, I really do think the Bauer family was stalled with him in the role of Ed. He really had no chemistry with anyone, even MOL he seemed cold and distant from. His deciding to leave in 96 was the perfect time to bring back MH..with Parker gone they needed his warmth...so what if he had gained weight..its not like Ed was a himbo like Tony Santos or Grillo's Hart. A big warm guy is what the Bauer kitchen needed and I would have loved to see if MG and he could pick it back up..and save her from Fletcher Reade stepping over her lines.

Someone suggested Roscoe Borne for a recast Alan..(at least during RR's time.) I think he would make a really good, sexy Alan and I wonder if he would have had chemistry with Zimmer? I know Borne had his issues though so don't know how long he would have lasted.

15 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

One of the reasons why I think Prinz has remained so sharp is because she has continued to do theater. It's really hard to become inert when performing on a NYC stage.

It's also one reason why I don't really see her on a soap except for brief periods of time, she'd become bored, especially the way daytime soaps have stuck in the last 20 years.

Still, ATWT should've at least asked and gave her the first right of refusal but as I have long said, the last decade of the show was very poor, especially the decisions that were made BTS, so I wouldn't even expect them to remember that Bob had siblings.

They could have brought her back as Marland did, for special events and storylines..and especially towards the end of the show. They could have brought her daughter back and have her make visits, etc.  Shame that they had no imagination.

17 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Had they framed the story where Alex would trade insults with Mindy but had other stories not involving Mindy...would have made it better.

 

Her last scenes in 1992 read as a good bye more than a 8 week vacation.  Not only how she played the scenes..but the scenes themselves. 

They should have just let Alex leave for good, handing her stock over to Henry and Vanessa, who the writers had a place cards in the Jenna vs. Spaulding story...(and I like Van's dynamic with Jenna more then Alex's...how she didn't like her but came to be protective of her...) The Alex/Nick/Mindy thing had reached its expiration point by then..

I love the Character Profile of Van...I like how in that Peapack era scene with Mel, MK looked like someone's stylish mom who could still rip your throat out. I know Van/Billy and Ed/Holly were the end game but I wonder what it would have been like to have Van/Ed (they were sleeping together briefly when Van was a vixen..) too weird that she was his dead wifes best friend and had married his nephew? I think gradually it could have been a Bob/Kim thing of past lovers, turned friends getting togther.

14 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I loved Marj as Vanessa on AMC.  My feelings about her are not meant as a slight, I think she was very watchable.  As others have said, this was a tough recast to pull off.  She kind of plays her as exasperated and almost looney at times, and it’s like she got no background at all.  I think the actor should interpret the role but still they need to hold on to the essence of the character.

Yea, I would have loved Marj as a totally different character. Both Bev and CB played the Spauldings as "to the manor born" and quite different from the rest of midwestern SF and the Lewis. Not so much Marj and RR. RR would have made a great Mike Bauer, no matter what he came off as too nice and too fatherly that his "badness" just made him look like he had gas all the time. But agree, it was so weird that tightly controlled Alex was huffing and puffing and acting like a nutcase. I thought they were going to do a menopause storyline (not that women with menopause act like nuts but looking for some kind or explanation.) The worst had to be when smart Alex was tricked by Roger into thinking that a snake bit her and he was acting like he was sucking the venom out of her as she was moaning more in ecstasy then anything else, no a car hood no less. I know that JFP would take out her own venom on the actors characters, even after they left so I wonder if poor Marj had to play JFP working out her issues with Bev through Alex. But its in other regimes too, the change of Alex's character from JoanAlex purring and in control to Marj screaming and thowing chairs in the police department is striking.

14 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I wonder what Constance Towers could have done with Alexandra?  After Helena on GH, I feel she could have pulled off scenes with Roger and Mindy quite well as a colder, more calculating version of Bev’s Alex without going full out like Marj did.

I think she would have been great but too close to her GH character. I always thought that Lara Parker from Dark Shadows would have made a great Alex...I know they were considering RS from OLTL and Jane Elliot but Parker was away from soaps long enough to bring a fresh spin and not replay her old character. She would also bring that icy glamour with a just hidden "Ill cut a bitch" vibe Bev always gave. I think she and Zaz would have given off some heat.

3 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

 

Here is what I think. First let's set aside the absolute trashing of the character in latter years when she had nothing to do anymore with what Bev had played and where, frankly, I can't blame Marj for cashing the check and just phoning in a hysterical over-the-top caricature.

What this clip shows is that even in her early years the writing had shifted for the character already for one. And for two I can't entirely blame her for not trying to be Bev - no one could - and as someone who had played a recast before she knew it is better not to try.
They hired her because of how she played Capitol's Myrna and this is what she was channeling. It wasn't Alexander as BmK played her but it could have worked with stronger writing/stories.
When it didn't, she clearly could not be bothered to salvage whatever they were doing

I agree, as soon as Marj appeared the writing had changed...(I remember her coming home to the Spaulding mansion where Roger and Jenna were sleeping in her bed..and she gets in on top of them not knowing they were there..it was supposed to be comedic but it was stupid..Alex would have no idea what happened in her absence even though she was in NY before SF and could have easily found out, etc.)  

Yes, no one could play what Bev. did. but that is why they should have never recast..or just recast to finish up the Jenna vs. Spaulding storyline and had her leave..(if I was JFP I would have gotten on my hands and knees to get Bev to finish out the storyline.) Have Van assume the role or bring back Amanda...which would have been a smart thing to do...a fresh take with Amanda and A-M bonding against Roger and Jeana and then  bring back a recast Alan to pit them against each other.  Funny you mention Myrna Clegg, Alex wasnt Myrna but I gotta say, Marj was more fierce and Alex like as Myrna so I can kinda see why they chose her.

And I agree, when they properly for Alex Marj was really good and solid. And, she has one of my favorite scenes in the horrible Alex druggin Alan storyline where RR is laying there like a sack and Alex goes to walk out, but then turns around to kick him...so not Alex but hilarious in its own right..I wanted to kick the boring sack that was RR's Alan!

20 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

And Sharon Collins, on Y&R.

Personally, I think it has rarely been employed well as a device. ATWT was particularly dumb, since we have actual scenes of Iva insisting that she could clearly recall every detail of giving birth to Lily. At least with Sharon, the specifics of her giving birth were never clarified in detail, so it didn't look as idiotic when TPTB attempted to rewrite the story.

True, but I will take THIS over a clone anyday!!!

On 3/28/2021 at 2:13 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Barbara Ryan and Lucinda Walsh (ATWT)

The richest woman in Oakdale, Lucinda, a business mogul started out as a mentor to Barbara Ryan, who was building a fashion/design empire. The two also became the proverbial thick as thieves duo who wreaked havoc on a number of unsuspecting residents of the town. Then Barbara became the prime suspect in the apparent murder of her ex-husband and Lucinda offered to take Barbara's soon to be struggling company under the Walsh Enterprises umbrella until Barbara was released from prison. Unfortunately, Lucinda decided that she wanted to keep "Simply Barbara", which, was generating surprisingly robust profits and when Barbara's fiance, a detective, managed to clear her name, found she couldn't get her company back, as it was now folded into W.E. To add insult to injury, Lucinda wanted Barbara to work for her, which set off animus between the two, especially when Barbara decided to start a new fashion design company, Barbara Ryan Originals (B.R.O.) with the intent of destroying "Simply Barbara". Later in their history, they would come to a detente and when each was diagnosed with cancer, one would comfort the other but they did clash more than once.

I would add Lisa and Babs...they would always snap at each other but would be there when the other needed them.

18 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I do think Marland lost the ability to write humor and banter.  Look what he ended up doing to Shannon before she was 'killed' off.

 

I never saw a lot of humor on his ATWT...everyone was so earnest like a Thomas Kinkaide photo.  

 

I almost said that Marland and "humor" should not be mentioned in the same sentence, but then I remember some stuff he did on GL when he was redeeming Nola and she was in London doing something with Quint...there is a slap stick fight between Nola and some other woman that was funny and campy and poking fun at the Dynasty cat fights...and I think..did Marland have a sick day? His ATWT is so earnestly morose especially in comparison to GL at the time, which, however badly written it was in periods..had a zestiness that was lacking in its sister soap. What happened to him? He even takes the fun out of Lisa..who I must say, had to put 50,000 miles on her car every year zipping back and forth between her businesses, the hospital, Bob and Kim's, Tom and Margos, and whomever else's business she was getting into.

12 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 Seeing Iva tell Lucinda that she can remember the day and the hour she gave birth to Lily makes it even dumber that there was ever a Rose. The reason why Iva failed to remember she had two whole babies was absurd.

I agree, but at least it is better then the tired old...there is an exact unrelated double of a character impersonating them. Maybe Iva and Alex had the same doctor deliver their kids?

40 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Compare this to the Country Club scenes with Alexandra and Roger, and the episodes just after.  Subtle, character based writing and performances.  Even when Beverlee could have gone into histrionics she played layers.

14 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

I think Marj could have played a better Alex. The writing wasn't there and she didn't always elevate it either. 

40 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I think this was trying to emulate it..but it was the Marvel comics version of that scene. I agree, Marj did quite well as a "different" version of Alex and strangely, I believed her more as a business woman then I did Bev...(Bev played the behind the scenes manipulating the strings better..."Oh me..why I just let others with more experience handle that..." as she takes a knife to your throat..) Again, both were dependent on the writing and also the directing..at that time I think JFP just wanted everyone to go OTT like Deas and Marj. The confrontation with Faux Annie really makes me want to see what Marj could have done with a harsher, more midwestern version of Alex.

It does make me laugh at all the faces and the throwing of chairs..for no reason at all..and Van/Maeve's look of embarrassment through this. I just wish they had progressed Van into the rich matriarch of SF role instead of sighing away with Matt and letting Dinah abuse her, and not recast Alex.  A non Ron Raines Alan really turned on by Biz Van and Van playing him would have been good.