Mitch

1 hour ago, amybrickwallace said:

How exactly did they break up Carol and Steve? I know that Rita Walter left ATWT (and not long after that, show business altogether), but was this a pairing that had any rooting value?

Never a big Steve fan but he lost his ..angry personality with Carol which made him easier to take. I get that was part of his character and Carol/Betsy helped him with that and they wanted to restore it going into the Betsy relationship but man, it is hard to see him yell at people like Kim and she just takes it.  

Going into this I think the Dobsons planned on having Natalie  coming in and having a custody fight over Amy now that Jay was dead and Steve and her have a similar relationship as she had with Jay..the only problem was the casting of Natalie...the actress did not have that kind of sex appeal, and the Dobs left and I think the new writers didn't know what to do with it. I think that Steve and Carol worked but more as supportive friends...(why does every relationship on soaps have to be romantic/sexual) which would have caused problems enough when her friend Steve hooked up with her enemy Natalie taking her to court over custody, etc.

As it worked out the new writers change whatever the Dobsons were planning with the Egyptian artifacts, to James working with/being blackmailed into a drug cartel.  Steve desperate to help his new family and make money, was involved with using his truck to transport the drugs..(as Marland would have him do later) and he was sent to jail for a while, and Carol divorced him and just kind of vanished. During the whole Betsy/Steve thing Carol was never mentioned!

12 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

 

Interesting...this is right before the ice storm..and Joyce setting Lisa's skirt on fire!  Getting ready for Natalie's return (she is married to the guy who owns the necklace...) and what a missed opportunity that was...and it seems Carol/Steve is a prototype to Betsy/Steve...they are trying to make Bob...more "modern" with the beard...James introducing that ugly ass set that lasted for years...Margo sure changes her tune quick in regards to her feelings toward John, they needed to let their animonsity linger longer..., the David actor was leaving to do the play, and we don't see him again until he has amnesia...I remember the talk of the gun, Lyla had it for a while, etc, so were the Dobson's planning on having John get shot and changed it with that dumb car hitting him? Also, I never understood where they were going with they Haley storyline and the Egyptian tomb and James implying he was coming into money (what happened to the Stenbeck fortune???) This was near the end of the Dobson's first tenure, and the other writer's changed it into a drug smuggling operation. A weird time for ATWT.

Christina is pretty old there...I always thought it was weird that she didn't think of Ed as more of her dad then Roger when she came back. The push and pull of thinking of Ed as her dad but wanting the approval of her bio dad would have been similar to Phillip and one thing to bring them together. But Long seemed to want to obscure that.

5 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

Good point on the Glenn Close comparison.

I always thought Liz Keifer was such a beauty. But I’ve always been partial to strawberry blondes.

I think Keifer was good as a more adult Blake that, while still making mistakes...was softer and warmer.  They really missed the boat in not making Ross and Blake the tentpole couple during Wheeler and Kreizman.

2 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Her Dinah was an ingenure.

The original Dinah (Jennifer G) was tall and more rough around the edges.  Gina T's Dinah was closer in regards to being rough around the edges to the original Dinah.

My mom used to say it was jarring going from wendy M's Dinah..who was more feminine and resembled Maeve Kinkaid...to Gina's Dinah..who wasn't.

Yea, the first Dinah was a big strapping girl with a bit of a tude..and then they recast with Paige, who I think was meant to fill the "Beth" void.  I actually think Gina actually played her like she was raised by carneys...she was tough and rough but still played her heart.

Roscoe Born- Alan Spaulding-GL

Lara Parker-Alexandra Spaulding-GL

The Spauldings needed a gothic powerful sexiness that was lost with RR (who would have made a great Mike Bauer) and Marj Dusay (who would have made a great..anyone but Alex.)

10 hours ago, Franko said:

If Grayson Hall hadn't died more than a decade earlier, I could see James E. Reilly wanting her as Tabitha on PASSIONS.

Ha..actually, I could see him making her Tabitha's nosy neighbor and nemises who was interested in the supernatural...(i.e. the only person in Harmony who wasn't in a coma and saw what was going on...) Gladys

10 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 If Eileen is up to it. Alan should try to get her on the Locher Room. 

Over the weekend. I binged watched some ATWT from 2005. I only saw Lisa appear in one episode. Only at the very beginning.  In a scene with Dusty and Meg. Everyone is in their own bubble. Characters rarely crossed over. Made me miss the large group scenes Doug used to do. Everything felt off. The stories were forgettable. One of the stories featured was BJ/Katie/Henry. Which was awful.

Marland was great for using Lisa as a connector between stories...she would start out on one side of town helping a wayward stud or vixen, then stop in at Bob and Kim's for a gab and some recap...then go over to another side of town and trade barbs with John or Lucinda...its so weird that Lisa was involved with so many people (even without having a BIG storyline) either as helper,  or pain in the butt, that she is so forgotten during the last ten years.

15 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

  

Its so weird do see her not looking "Lisa-ish" Colleen Zenk posted on FB that she is trying to track Eileen down and get a number, she called her church and her library or something but of course they would give it out...especially to Babs!!! So it seems that the entire cast lost track of her..I hope she is doing good.

On 8/23/2021 at 10:34 PM, vetsoapfan said:

I did not want to see the Mac-dementia story on ATWT at all, but as you say: at least he was not a long-time favorite character and essential to the show. If they had given Nancy, Bob, Kim, Lisa or Ellen dementia, I would have gone nuclear. Fans would have revolted en masse, I'm sure. 

I agree that ending the plot quickly was the right decision.

Yea, I hated that story line, and I could have cared less about Mac. (I personally thought he was gross and Nancy wouldn't have married him, he looked like his jacket smelled of smoke..)  It was one of Marland's "See, I'm doing something RELEVANT" ..but I don't think anyone wanted to see Mac sh*tting his pants and anyone who lived through someone they love having dementia probably didn't want to see him spiral down, which is unfortunately the only way to go. There is just some stuff that won't work on soaps and a prolonged real illness is one. At least we never had to see more of his annoying daughter and grandkids!!!

Angelique on DS...even as a little kid I felt sorry for her...she just wanted Barnabas to pay attention to her..plus Victoria and Maggie were  boring..

3 hours ago, RavenWhitney said:

KC Collier was most likely a pen name for Millee Taggart.  She and King were romantic partners at that time and came in and out of the show's writing room over the next few years.  

Interesting thanks! She sure did better years later on GL then she did during this time on ATWT.

15 hours ago, will81 said:

I also found this, seems K.C was a novelist too. 

While the actress was totally miscast, there were more fish to fry on that show then a character with ties to the core. Too bad, another missed opportunity.

1 hour ago, will81 said:

 

Also apparently K.C Collier's first move in 1981 was to get rid of Natalie. Seems she left town the week of Aug 10, 1981. So I guess K.C's scripts were airing by that week. 

 

Does anyone know what else Collier did? I just find the credit for ATWT at this time and nothing else..could the name be a cover for someone else? What an odd time on the show...the Dobson's leave...Wagner quits, the 25th anniversary is Kim and Nick's wedding and no other celebration...then the strike and someone bringing all these new characters on for the summer who just disappeared in the fall.

18 hours ago, Efulton said:

I agree.  I wish they all could have taken a step back and figured out how to make it work.  

I did not start watching until 1976 but I have read many fans say 1972-75 was incredible.

That was Rauch's job to reign in his writer and talk to his actors to meet in the middle. I would think Dwyer would have been happy to play a bit more of an edge to her character...Nancy Hughes was controlling and even good Mom, Grandma and everyone's friend Bert Bauer had her moments.

I do remember some clips of Lemay on some primetime special on soaps or on some newsmagazine show when the soaps were at their 80s peak and Lemay was dissing what had to be Dwyer in reference to "An actress who actually thought she had the same qualities as the character, the good mom who was a wonderful cook and baker, and...she wasn't" Lemay still was holding a grudge against her so who knows if she could have delivered..Lemay could be bitchy indeed but he made for great interviews.

There was a time he was either headwriting or consulting on ATWT right before Marland came back...and the producer was restoring the Hughes as the core family and bringing back Nancy and Chris. They were giving Nancy her old bite in scenes with John, "Oh hello Dr. Dixon, I see the mustache is about the only thing about you that has changed." and having some friction with Kim who just married Bob...with Lisa showing her old ways a bit by "advising" Kim on getitng into Nancy's good graces by making her favorite dish..."steak kidney pie" which Nancy hated. That was straight up Irna there and interesting that as soon as Marland came Nancy became Bert Bauer and Lisa went back to Bob and Kim's friend..so I think the domineering Mom thing was all Lemay (and I have to say much more interesting ....)

13 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

've seen many an actor praise a story that has been universally panned, only because they got a lot of airtime and were doing something different.

A lot of actors don't have much interest or awareness of the show as a whole.

Take any of Zimmer's bad stories on GL...she would praise them to heaven and back, all the while bombing on the screen and taking Reva as far away from Pam Long's creation as can be. She LOVED the clone story and it was crap...The weird thing is that interviews during post cancellation Zimmer GOT it and what GL was..I guess having an actor's ego and being tied up into that makes you blind...(sorry, but actors who reach a certain level seem like they would be horrible people to work with!)

2 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Wheeler was one of the people I was thinking of when I was wondering out loud how much the problem with dying soaps was the quality of the producers.
She did make a horrible no-good awful castastrophic call with Peapack and the style change but it was clearly intended as a Hail Mary to save the show. 
I generally hear that she was a decent person and loved soaps. So the question in my head is always: if she hadn't worked under the constraints she had with the crashing budget, would her record have been as bad? Was it inherent bad judgement or was it the fact they were no good answers to the show's problems?
I dunno.
 

Wheeler is another interesting person. She was considered for the EP position when Rauch left, and MADD, being MADD was afraid to let someone new take over, so she brought in old hack Conboy. I think at the the time, if Millet was still writing and with Wheeler having a budget her record would have been different. Again, I hate some of the choices she made but don't demonize her as Conboy blew the hell out of the budget with stuff like the stupid day glo fashion show and Shayne's baseball field...(all to spotlight his.."new find". I mean GL would have died anyway, PG and CBS were intent on that, but would we have some quality on the way to morgue? The last week of the show I could see that she and someone else got what we wanted to see, but...

On 8/12/2021 at 10:20 AM, wonderwoman1951 said:

and then there’s the barbara bloom factor, who arrived at cbs daytime

Oh the final nail was Babs! I just remember Dylan on GL being recast with that slovenly Brian whathisface from PC...the just brought him back, broke him off with Bridget, and had him panting after Harley (cause, what else, she was the ULTIMATE sexy woman who made Reva in her prime look like a hag) all to just cast her buddy.

On 8/12/2021 at 10:20 AM, wonderwoman1951 said:

as for eileen, i agree. she always saw herself as the ‘world turn’s star, even after her star had faded. her marriages all ended in divorce, she had no children. it seems as though her life is made up of ‘world turns and her cabaret act, along with her dogs, which is kind of sad

Fulton is such an interesting person...she played this iconic role and rode it for all it worth, resisting letting the character age, which it did and became this warm beloved figure, but nobody in the reunions mention her...the one with the Lien actress did but it was more about admiring her for her old style divaness then her person.  I do know that she seemed to screw things up in her need for attention, when the Dobson's were there they created a whole family around her but she wasnt happy, so she started playing Lisa as being a ditz, died her hair a clown orange and then left the show to move to California to do pilots...(for WHAT??) While I didn't like Sheffer, Lisa was slated to be in the Scotland story but Fulton went on complaining like it was 1972 again that she didn't have enough to do and he got pissy and took her out of it and then we never saw her.  She seems kind of sad figure...hurt by TPTB but by that time she should have had enough in the bank to say, "See YA!"

1 hour ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Goutman was a very divisive figure, there is no room for debate about that. It's no secret that he had conflict with a few veteran actors. Long-time actors Martha Byrne and Scott Bryce had very negative experiences with him. Both Byrne and Bryce have spoken about their experiences on the show when he was EP. Byrne was a bit more circumspect, not wanting to divulge too many specific details, Bryce was more blunt. From my understanding, having listened to their actual words, they were marginalized, as was Fulton. Fulton also spoke of how hurtful her treatment was. As EP, the head of what goes on, day to day in production, if he wasn't at the root of this, honestly, I don't know who would be.

I also know of his reputation along other spheres, that are not ATWT-related. It's not good.

I think Byrne's problem was just at the very end and the contract negotiations ..Bryce was a more layered actor who was used to Marland's work and by the time he got there the network and MADD were all about...cartoon BAD and no depth. I think Byrne got along with him quite well until that time.

I think Goutman did work to keep the vets there..he just didn't know how to use them well. Kim and Bob and Lucinda were used quite well, and to tell you the truth, I would not have given them major story either...but I would not have cut off their family tree like they did, so I would have given their kids the most story and I would have them interact as support with their own robust lives.  I think Fulton, sad to say, would not have been happy unless she was LISA...the STAR of ATWT..she was the prototype of Zimmer, bitching if she had a day off back in her hey day. Again, I would have Lisa be a go to for the troubled grey characters of Oakdale, where she would energetically butt into their lives.  Again, I think Goutman saw them as adding color and texture to the show, but didn't know how to incorporate them as such.  I take a look at Rauch, who actually fought to keep MG, JVD and LK on contract (as soon as he left most were bumped to recurring) but really didn't give them good story when they were there.

On 8/9/2021 at 2:43 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Even in the midst of turbulence story-wise, it was a warm feeling to see people coming together, building a protective layer around other characters.

To be fair, Marland began to let that diminish during his time..which is when I stopped watching as often, and moved on to GL, which,  while not as prominent as with the Hughes, were recentering the Bauers with Ed and Mo as the center of town and the house "Everyone comes to when they want to celebrate or when something bad happens, people just start coming here," as Michele said once. As soon as that ended my viewing became sporadic there to.  I don't know why soaps can't figure out that the fantasy of the core HOME and family that is open to everyone is one viewers have no matter what their age.

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I would have written Lisa as embracing online dating. It would have been a fun storyline (which the show seemed to desperately need at that time) having Lisa learn how to use a computer and one of the younger people helping her set up a dating profile. Lisa was often at her best when she was surrounded by youthful energy

Agreed...Lisa was always best when clucking around young people, especially the bad girls and boys of town that she would take under her wing. The interesting thing about her that was often ignored is that under that whole "romantic fool" thing she had, it really wasn't the men but about belonging and having a family. Lisa was the prime example of a character creating a choosen family, which she did her whole time on the show, becoming a Hughes even when the [!@#$%^&*] hit the fan..and she  didn't need big storylines during the last two decades..she just needed a bunch of characters that she adopted around her that would come to her for her screwy advice and support. Bob and Kim you would go to for advice on an "honest" relationship, Lisa you would go to for advice on how to hide a body. So many easy ways to involve the vets without them being on everyday or having front burner stories. And yes, I hated that she ended up alone, not even going to her grandkids going away or around dour Tom and Margo (though I agree, I wouldnt want to be around them either.)

17 hours ago, Forever8 said:

remember Susan going on at Kim about how she felt Kim didn't like "The Stewart Women" and I was like um... Other than Emily you and your daughter aren't Stewart women. And why did Allison change her last name from McDermott to Stewart anyway?  They had a great chance to revive the Lowell/Stewart legacy with Dani but the less of those scene when she called Craig "Daddy" in a sexual manner the better

Kim WAS a Stewart..so that used to be bug me too..especially when it was the Hughes/Stewart family were so tight knit...John used to rail about the "Hughes/Stewart axis runs this town" when self pitying whatever trouble he got himself into.  Also, Emily under Marland was always considered part of the extended Hughes family because of Betsy and Kim, though again, she along with Babs were the problem family members but she was still part of that unit. I miss the extended Hughes family and the comings and goings at Bob and Kim's house all day and all night.

On 8/2/2021 at 10:49 PM, kalbir said:

Re Maureen/Roger, theirs was such a fascinating dynamic. Maureen saw the good qualities in Roger, and while Roger didn't care about what the rest of Springfield thought of him, he cared about what Maureen thought of him. You could see hints of that when Roger and Maureen were trapped together during the blackout and when Roger visited Maureen's grave. Perhaps secretly deep down Roger might have been a little in love with Maureen but I don't think he ever would admit it or act on it. I think having Maureen turn to Roger in the aftermath of learning about the Ed/Lillian affair and Roger helping Maureen and Michelle leave Springfield and start over somewhere else might have played out better than killing off Maureen.

I like that Mo saw the good in Roger but didn't make excuses for him...later on with people like Jonathon (no comparison to Roger intended) they had people propping him up as he was just a big a** hole.  There was plenty of story for Ed with Mo still on the canvas..it is all b.s. JFP wanted to not only bring on her boy Deas to stink up the show but she wanted to make the Coopers the core family and obscure the Bauers and couldnt with Mo alive.  Mo could have left Ed and moved to the Boardinghouse with Chele and helped Bridget cover up her pregnancy...(this would need Bridget to lie to Mo on who the daddy was but it could have worked with this team.) Ed, left on his own becomes the drunk asshat that was always inside of him but had his Mom and then Mo around he held it back. Sides are taken...Van is torn, Holly supports Ed while everyone things she is still in love with him, Bridget is torn, Lillian becomes the new unexpected "slut of Springfield" in everyone's eyes. I think having Mo live gave Ed more story as he could go off the rails and there would still be safety net. Maybe a good time to bring Mike back to knock some sense into Ed and maybe its Mike and Mo who get together. So much could have happened..

2 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

So who is it going to be guys..

Murray or PAS

Aren't both of them 50?

Ha..imagine Cyrus and Danny..setting the Manny world ablaze...Cyrus.."So Danny, we can finally do that thing you whispered into Michelle's ear!"

5 minutes ago, victoria foxton said:

OMG!!! CW too (allegedly). BE was insatiable. Your idea for Cyrus was better than what played onscreen.

Why not add homophobe to the list of Alan's crimes...as he produces evidence.."Oh Alex, by the way, your husband is...GAY!" Alex coolly says, "I know Alan, unlike you, I lived in Europe! Now I have to go, Cyrus and I have some shopping to do..I'm sure there is a crazy younger blond out there you can find to bolster up your fragile elderly male ego! Don't forget the blue pills dear!"

19 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

After her disastrous affair. With the 2th Mallet. BE goes after a gay man. BTS GL was better than the actual show.

LOL..I wonder if this is true..as all the cast had to know Murray was gay..he never really hid it..but ya gotta hand it to BE..she had fine taste and was willing to try it all, including, if rumors are true.. a dabble with CW ) and somehow without being a die hard knock out...she got most of it...(she should be a gay icon!)

How interesting the GL storyline would have been if Cyrus was gay,...and Alex knew it and just wanted a charming, handsome friend and to save him from deportation, married him, and  didn't mind what he did outside until he fell in love with..???? Alan would find out and blackmail him into doing something but in the end Alex is cool with it and lets him go.

1 hour ago, Soapsuds said:

Now I know why Alan keeps interviewing him. it looks like Murray character likes twinks/younger guys.

If we could have only one middle aged gay guy on TV who isn't chasing after youth..but then I guess we would have to find one in real life so...