Mitch

1 hour ago, Joseph said:

Hey it's Carole Shelley not Shelby and I understand your point she made a great crazy Iris, I thought Carmen Duncan could be a nice replacement too, even if she probably go on a different direction with the Character the rest was Spot-on except Dina Merrill was kinda old if I'm not mistaken didn't Alex have her twins as a teenager?

Wasn't she a bit to old? I think hope were born onscreen in the 1960's

I think Courtney would have been great...and she was playing Dee while Roussell (sorry, never got the love for her) was playing Hope on GL.  I never understood why the never brought her back and have Alex luring her to SF to get Alan away from Annie/FauxAnnie/Olivia or the business. RR always looked ridiculous chasing after those sweet young things and not even Alex making a comment ("Here is Alan's late middle age crisis bimbo now!")

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Found the Goutman interview interesting and could appreciate his efforts with ATWT.

Re the vets and younger characters. I remember when Nancy was in scenes with Katie and there was blowback.

I'm sure Goutman felt he was doing the right thing in having Nancy on and involved with a younger character but if Nancy had been involved with a daughter of Frannie or Don's daughter Christina it would have worked better.

The show needed to refocus and simplify. Frannie, Andy, the Ward quads etc would immediately give the vets more opportunity to be involved or if budget didn't allow at least the onscreen characters were linked to them.

 

I agree..the show was so simple to write and produce..you have a core family (the Hughes) and you have three different families orbiting them...(get it...) Stewarts, Snyders, Walsh..and the people they interact, screw, blackmail and you got a show that writes itself. No desert islands, no stolen jewels, no aging clinics no weird pilots stuck on the island..no horse poisioning...

I thought the backlash with Nancy and Katie was ridiculous and more directed to Katie eating the show then anything else. What, seniors can't interact with non-family members, and actually, Katie is part of the family...being Margo's sister. Nancy had a history or taking under her wing the misquided girls of Oakdale...(all the while acting judgey on everyone else...) so I liked it.

On GL I have to add that I LOVED Brent/Marion and I thought the switching HIV test results was a good use of an old trope. I thought that he should have killed Fletcher or Buzz instead of Nadine but... I also liked the Nursery Rhyme Stalker...Holly didnt do anything that would make her irredeemable and it was fun to see smart Holly running around in her sexy stalker gear..plus it was funny, soaps have NOTORIOUSLY bad mothers running around.

13 minutes ago, KMan101 said:

 

 

 

I don't like Goutman but I still ultimately appreciate hearing from him, just like Phelps, and others.

 

I'm not shocked at all CBS and P&G wanted the soaps dead. They no longer served a purpose for P&G/Telenext. That was clear for years and years before they went off the air. We all knew they had no interest. I guess CBS never really wanted to 'buy' GL and ATWT if they wanted them dead so badly? I'd like more info here ...

 

And just featuring 'young people' doesn't generate a better demo. Sorry Goutman.

 

And who called Lisa unimportant? Goutman?

I have no idea why TPTB still pull out the youth card in chasing demos...yes young people are important to both attracting young viewers and keeping the story lines going...(seeing Josh and Reva and Lily and Holden acting like middle aged fools was boring and embarrassing..) but I know in college some of our favorite characters were Bert and H.B.

Goutman didn't mention Eileen or Lisa, its that troll above who says she wans't important.

Just now, Bill Bauer said:

I'm full of unpopular opinions because I'm usually quick to notice when the emperor has no clothes. However, one opinion I've really developed in my current rewatching of ATWT is that Scott Defreitas is a horrible actor. I think he's just a sentimental favorite because he grew up on the show and played the character so long. He had "moments" of good acting but, for the most part, he was very stiff and in some scenes his acting is downright laughable. 

And unfortunately, that sentiment kept the part from being recast.

20 minutes ago, Broderick said:

The Goutman interview wasn't bad.  (Sometimes it's interesting to hear from a person who's universally reviled, lol.)  But the dude asking the questions was horrid.  He didn't seem capable of asking even the most fundamental follow-up questions.   Goutman mentioned that CBS and P&G had "differing views about some issues".   Most interviewers would then ask, "Which issues?  Can you elaborate?", or something to that effect.  Locher said, "Oh, so they didn't play nice in the sandbox.  Wow.  Crazy.  Hmmm", or something, and just let it go.  He did that with 90% of the questions, as though he didn't even listen to Goutman's response. 

Agreed...this is why people who defend Alan drive me crazy..its just like the shows were...he (they) get to an interesting idea that has potential and will be interesting and then they drop it!  Goutman brought up that they were looking for another venue for AW and failed but that was not followed up on...he also dropped it when CG brought up that they didnt have a problem with the first kiss or the second but then the third....Alan goes into..."Oh yes, people from the midwest and the south have problems with that.." Besides the generalization of the whole thing, let him finish his thought.

13 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

A while back we were talking about Tonio return after 1991...here is one clip of it...

 

 

Soapsuds I got to ask you since I am seeing it a lot...where is that clip from a" twink prison" storyline from????

12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Marland was only good as head writer on ATWT for only the first two years.  And his dialogue..yikes..so unrealistic.

 

Agreed..it all went down hill after those two years...and if I heard one more person say, "The key to any relationship is honesty..its what I value the most.."

Here's one..I LOVED Toby Poser's Amanda! Kathleen Cullen was as dull as dishwater ..Poser was fun and campy in all the right ways! I hated the dumb retro writing of her being Brandon's daughter but though the Malibu Madame was kind of good (and why was it everyone jumped on Amanda for being a madame but that boring self righteous Matt got a pass for being a Man-Ho??)

11 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Now once a recast Alex came back it became a lame trope of the shrewish mother-in-law instead and it was tedious. 

And since now EVERYONE in town treated Alex as an annoying joke..(when Alex stops Josh and Annie's wedding...shreicking the whole time, Vanessa practically pushes her out the door..."You've done quite enough damage for one day" as if she was a kid.) even Alan quite regarding her as a rival and more of an annoying pain in the butt..especially since they had her all over his love life...(as if Alex would care one bit about Tangie Hill) and they wrote, and Marj gave off, rather incestuous vibes for Alan.

Concerning Alex/Mindy..I get that she felt betrayed by someone she trusted...(even if they had to retro write the relationship as Mindy practically growing up in her house...Alex always treated the Lewises as inferior...) but I would have gone even farther..I could not see BevAlex marrying Roger unless he held something over her. That didn't make sense from the start.

20 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Budget or no budget doesn't excuse giving fans a shitty ending.

I agree on all those points, I was pointing out that the interview was interesting...I think an interview with Hitler would have been interesting too (not comparing the two but ...) I thought JFP's was but she was full of [!@#$%^&*].

I think what is most telling is that Gautman talks about trying to get attention for ATWT....like the show was ignored by the press, etc. I find this a continuing thread with MADD's tenure..she thought the clone was a success as it made people talk...but it wasn't a creative success or have any long term ratings success. He also talks about really "trying" things that didnt' always work out. Hey dummie..you have an established show with a strong longterm core family and more vets then anyone else...why not just do "soap opera" and do it well? I also thought it was interesting that he did recognize it was the most "midwestern" of the soaps and he didn't really know what to do with that or with the two different families of the Hughes and the Snyders as they were so different.  Huh?

I think that was always a problem on all the soaps, the execs in charge don't respect the form and try to be "innovative" but fail and the writers and producers don't understand or appreciate kitchen sink drama.  Gautman claims the sci fi thing on AW was a success and from what I can see the audience hated it. Keep it simple stupid!

22 hours ago, j swift said:

When Alexandra was introduced she had no interest in working for a living, and certainly she didn't care about a business that Alan created, but was not her family's legacy (a fact that was often forgotten by later writers).  However, I think it would have been an intriguing idea if Roger's scheme motivated Alex to learn more about business so that she would never be conned again. 

So Spaulding Enterprises was built by Alan? I thought Henry and Brandon were business partners and created it?Also when Alex first came back to town the business was very important to her and I remember she was really set on Phillip raised a Spaulding, and Lujack, who had Spaulding blood should run it eventually together and Ross was there to keep it going until that would happen.

17 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Alan only asked him about Martha because I left that question on his Facebook page and others responded. I see nothing was asked about Scott Bryce. Goutman has no explanation for his actions. 

We are boycotting his interview!

Actually it was pretty good..he has a definite point of view which I don't have on his choices but...he admits that CBS wanted ATWT gone and P & G wanted out of the business, which we all knew...but he seems to shrug off some of the cancellation on that and that there was not turning back...he does discuss the budget and using the vets and how he wasnt happy on how the show looked at the end and that they had to film outside as they didnt have money to buy a fake tree...He talks about the demos but he does seem to really buy into "young actors bring in the demos" and the old chestnut that Hogan was AMAZING.  I liked that we found out that Helen Wagner did not take anyone's [!@#$%^&*]..and he never mentions Eileen even if Alan brought her up along with the other vets. He seemed more genuine then JFP and happy in what he is doing and saying that "that ship has sailed" in terms of helming another soap.

15 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

I like Alex in this one. 
Annie on the other hand... God those writers didn't understand what had made Annie compelling in the first place.
 

Yes..I love Marj Alex in this one...different then Bev in an earthy ready to roll in the mud way but tough and savy. It reminds me of what JVD said about her in one of the reunions...she had a great sense of humor and told filthy jokes back stage all the while wearing diamonds and pearls. BevAlex was at home in the drawing room reading the racing forum and I see MarjAlex more out in the stables with the horses and dogs then coming in and changing for dinner. It could have worked that way...though I wish they had just made Marj a Spaulding cousin from Kansas City struggling for dominance against Alan.

Speaking of struggling for dominance..they really dropped the ball with Amanda. She is the eldest of Alan's kids (yes, I say she still is his kind and they did retro write it back as such with one line later) and she was continually ignored by Alan in favor of yes Phillip but even AM.  Now I loved Poser but time past enough from the Malibu Madame that I wish it had been Amanda coming back at that time instead of Joan/Alex...the Alex/Alan stuff had been done to death and they seemed to want to stick everyone in time and never let them move on it was time for the Spaudling kids to fight over power..I would have Alex and Alan making their peace and Alex being content to live in Europe with Nick and Susan and maybe adopted kids, and then Alan names Phillip definately as his heir apparent getting everything and Amanda is  "Uh...no!" and she comes back and causes the trouble with the ex-wives club, etc. I knows it unpopular but I loved Poser but a good recast would work.

And speaking of recasts...I kind of like FauxAnnie in this...but yes, they forgot what made RealAnnie work...so I wish they had revealed this was not Annie but an imposter sent by Annie to cause the trouble and she is a fruitcake who starts to really think she is Annie.

42 minutes ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Her "Capitol" stint is why I will go to my grave blaming the reason it didn't quite work as Alexandra on the writing rather than Marj. At least during her first stint.
The second one, the writing was even more atrocious but she was on "F it" mode and just hamming it up the wazoo.

Yea. in her Capitol clips she is very, very strong without being...screechy.  Hey even her recurring days, in the clips I always mention as Marj's strongest point on GL, when she faces off with FauxAnnie in the attic..Marj is great.. as whomever wrote the dialogue that day just got Alex...(and admittedly, Marj makes for an earthier Alex then Bev but that's okay.) I will ALWAYS want to say..."Ya got quite a bark on ya, don'tja honey!" in the way Marj says it. Marj played what was on the page..period. 

3 hours ago, Joseph said:

wonder why Marj as so luckwarm as Alex if in Capitol she was so good! Of course I didn't get the chance to compare her with the others 

The funny thing is..I watched a clip of Marj on Capitol (never watched it) and she was more Alexlike as Myrna then she ever was Alexlike on GL. I think Marj really was more realistic as a business woman then Bev...as in I could see BevAlex pulling the strings behind the scenes and throwing her weight around as majority shareholder, where I could see Marj in the boardroom and making deals.

1 hour ago, Dan said:

I also don't find it a coincidence that Joan got replaced right as the switch from Paul Rauch to John Conboy was also announced. It may have been a mutual exit, but I wouldn't find it surprising if Conboy wanted Marj back in the role once she was done on AMC. 

I don't know for fact, but I think Joan liked Rauch and Rauch knew how to deal with a diva like her and supported her when she was feeling adrift in soaps. I also think that the book thing was an excuse to get out but especially with Rauch gone. MADD was actually acting exec producer for a week or so until Conboy came on and she was the one who bright back Marj to fill out the material and it was Conboy who gave her a contract...(and turned Alex into a monstrosity at the same time.)

11 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I remember people saying he was too pretty to be Paul and that it made no sense that Paul would've gotten into the fashion world.

Considering what we got afterwards... A guy who didn't look like his parents and looked older than CZP. Awful loud mouth over the top over rated Roger Howarth.

 

And Sarah.. My god was she boring!

Not to mention that the only romantic interest I could find this Paul having was if Hank Elliot came back.  He and that Sarah look like they should have been on Days...vapid, young pretty things talking about their "corporations" ! But yea, I would take him over dog face any day.

10 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Personally, I thought Collins was a lot of fun in the role; significantly better than Marj Dusay, whom I always found to be breathy and hammy.

Joan always seemed to be having fun...(I know that behind the scenes, while she found the work exhausting, she had a lot of like and respect for not only the other actors, but soap actors in general seeing how hard they worked...the book thing was an excuse..it was too much for her and MADD was happy to go cheaper with Marj..) and gave Alex a bit of sometimes malicious whimsy we hadn't seen since BevAlex pre obsessing over Nick/Mindy. As soon as Marj came back she went to overreacting...(there is a scene where she is at the hospital and confronts Olivia about being preggers and Marj practically chews her face off where Joan would have been more quietly disdainful of Olivia's obvious lack of intelligence about birth control.)

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

She wasn't going to take over the role of Bea Reardon...

Bwhahah..."Oh...Matt dear, isn't your wife a bit..shall we say...past the point of having a baby dear? "

8 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

My theory is that it was intended to be a six-month stint as stunt casting while waiting for Marj's stint as Vanessa on AMC to be over - Vanessa had been written in enough of a corner that it didn't take a genius to know she'd be released soon. Turns out MD was free earlier than expected so when it turned out JC wasn't happy, it worked in everyone's favor.

GL had no intention of bringing Marj back as Alex... remember, Rauch and MADD fired her the first time and then brought her back non contract and didn't write for her so she went to AMC.  Joan was in New York and announced that she would be interested in doing a soap while she was there. Rauch had connections with her and they needed the publicity going into the anniversary year and they had the Alexandra role which was an easy fit.  The publicity was mishandled badly and the ratings didn't skyrocket so when Joan was tired of it, as I said MADD was happy to bring in Marj to finish things off. The stint was a  six month arc with an opening to come back for quest appearance (for Joan)with Taggert writing that Gus WAS Alan's son (by Rita not that dumb nun) and AM would come back and they would fight Alan and Phillp for Spaulding. As we know Rauch left and Conboy brought Weston in and they gave Marj a contract, making her Myra Clegg/Vanessa and drugging Alan and being the bad guy in the Gus mess and eventually being a drug dealer.  Originally there was no intention of Alex long term.

3 hours ago, Bill Bauer said:

Judge Lowell never made it to the 80s. The last year the character was on the cast list is 1978 or maybe 1979. I don't think he was seen much in the few years prior to that. He was most definitely not on the show in the 80s. 

Yes, I know that I started watching regularly (instead of it just being on in the background as a kid) in 79 and he was never mentioned. I know that the actor came to the 25th anniversary party so he was up and about and apparently no hard feeling so I wonder if he just wanted to retire? Odd that they just never mentioned him dying off camera. Alma was mentioned when Gregg Marx was Tom as an excuse for Fulton to take her 3 month hiatus at that time, he said she went to take care of her mother, "Grandma" in Florida who was sick. Then Alma was never mentioned again.

11 hours ago, j swift said:

My opinion was that Larkin had panache.  He wasn't conventionally sexy, and it stretched the imagination that young women like Roxie and Mindy would physically attracted to him, but his appeal was evident

I think he was a very handsome man..tho not sexy (to me) as Kyle as there was this weird bit of "rage" just under the service all the time. I could see Roxy and Mindy taken by this sophisticated classy guy so different then others.  Remember Bernau was not a ripped "hunk" and his younger time as Alan he looks like sex on a stick. I do think something about his looks changed after the car accident..maybe he needed some facial surgery and while still handsome as hell, maybe it just reinforced his tendancy to flair those nostrils which seemed OTT. 

I just watched Days for the first time in forever...(you know Re-Possessed) and found the guy playing John improved with age..(now that he dumped the mullet, and well, he still is the worst actor on earth) and looked much earthier and sexier then the plastic young people..but maybe its just my age.

10 hours ago, Joseph said:

Does Anyone know if Joan Collins as Alexandra was Any good ironically it's harder to find clips with her than with earlier Beverlee or Marj

Joan was MUCH better then Marj (love her R.I.P.) but she wasn't on long so maybe while the clips are hard to find. Look for the Ex-Wives Club clips and you see her in all her wiley Alex glory!

2 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

I think Sharon Gabet would have gone for that rather than go to AW, in hindsight.

A Raven/India team up against Reva...with Alex throwing shade along the way...soap heaven for all of us gaylings back then!

5 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Let me ask something I have always wondered as delicately as I can: was Larkin M. considered attractive at the height of his popularity? 

There were many Kyle/Reva fans..so I would say so. I always thought he was more attractive when he first started on Edge, as that was before the flaming nostrils and over enunciating started.

I think Kyle was not the best role for him, he was Alan lite..but there was something in Malloy's acting that changed. From the reunions everyone seemed to kind of insinuate that he wasn't the easiest to get along with...(He confronted poor Terrel Anthony on his first day with a "Don't piss on my leg, I am the resident hunk" even though they were totally different characters) don't know if playing a character trying to essentially in the closet (married to society woman but turned on by Reva) was too close to his life or if he was drinking... I dont think the show or the actor were upset when he left. 

I wish they had just brought him on as Sky and had him fall for Reva and then Raven comes to town...THAT would have been fun to watch Gabot and Zimmer bitching and diva the place up.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

You can hear Wyndham's voice very clearly in this interview, which I remember @DRW50talking up over the years.

Wyndham seems to talk out of both sides of her mouth..as wasn't she bragging that NBC told her the only reason they kept AW on was HER, and that she thought up many, many storylines?  Anyway..good honest interview that she was pissed and someone rang Malone's beads!!!

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Amy, hope you enjoy this!

Thanks! God even in that ad Malloy is annoying and overly dramatic.  Not a great time on GL..poor Maeve..Vanessa reduced to be the hand writing housewife!

James Stenbeck was a Swedish Prince..which was stupid and never mentioned after the first year. On GL I can't believe even the fans of Richard and Cassie didn't think that storyline was stupid, GL couldn't afford to show the Spaulding Living room anymore (it became Carmen's den of cartoon evil) so they couldn't afford a royal set..which was just one throne room. Also on ATWT wasn't Bonnie a Scottish Princess or something? I just remember some dumb hunk chained to a wall (I think he was supposed to be Cricket's kid) and..I couldnt watch anymore. MADD had a royalty fetish?

16 minutes ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Agree w/everyone who thinks that Doug’s possession should have played out a little longer. Maybe the episode guarantee thing really did have something to do with it. If that’s the problem then I think it’s time to fix that somehow.

I am curious though how a good man like Doug was able to become possessed. I can’t imagine someone sneaking into his bedroom through the armoire and invading his dreams

Smoking hot chemistry between Johnny/Chanel too. I’m really anticipating how that storyline is going to play out.

Agreed it should go longer..and I also didn't get how the demon can take his soul..its not Doug's fault he is possessed....simply a "Marlena, look, if you don't let me in poor Dougo here is going to be dead, after he takes out a few of your friends first."  Someone up thread mentioned that if it went on longer people would think its dementia and that would be a good reason the devil got in..ala "The Excorcist 3" , which in addition to being much better then it gets credit for also has some really spooky dementia patients possessed and crawling on ceilings. The demon says that they are easier to take as their minds and wills are lost already. This could lead to Doug actually having dementia..caught early and controlled as much as it can by meds.

Working from home today and took a break to watch Days as I heard that EVIL IS BACK! I haven't watched since the looney Salem Stalker thing got out of control..( I watched that for the pure silly camp that Days always provides and hoping this does the same..)and I really haven't watch a soap episode since GL went off the air..(yes, that long.) Thoughts..its kind of sad that MarDevil is comforting and seeing Hall's eyes glowing, I almost felt warm and happy like Maureen Bauer was back in her kitchen. Its also nice to know that soaps haven't changed..its nice to know that Marlena is still doing stupid things to help someone else, even if it means the town will suffer...the old pros and characters are still more interesting then the "hot" kids...Dee Hall and the John actor look damn great...(though his acting is still terrible and I miss the bad 90s mullet he used to sport) as does Julie. It is nice to see more then two black actors on a soap and damn if that two of them are able to act their age and have a few pounds on them..they brought a level of "real" to the show. The sets seem almost Peapack terrible but the older actors made you not notice and good God they made John and Marlena the Tom and Alice Horton of today, grandparents to practically adult children! I actually like that they are bringing up the possession again...in the cracked up world of Days, it makes sense that this is an historic moment ..(just as long as we don't return to Melaswen!)

All in all it was nice to actually watch a soap again to laugh and yell at the screen..."She's possessed you duma** John!"