Mitch

On 10/8/2021 at 8:21 PM, DRW50 said:

can't remember all that  Kathryn  said, but I think it was after Nick and Kim had their  big romantic  rendezvous in Greece. Kathryn said she  got a lot of angry letters at the time. I suppose the P&G audience was not  expecting her to  be in that type of setting relatively quickly (by ATWT standards of that era) after Dan's death.  

 

Well, it was probably less then a year after Dan died. I think that the real problem was that Nick found out his wife Andrea was still alive in Greece and Kim STILL jumped in the sack with him.

Hays did sell her house in Illinois and had a large estate sale, with many ATWT items, I wish I had known, but I would feel morbid going through Kim Hughes house! She did go to the same facility as her mom as she knew the staff and loved the level of care. I have no idea what her situation is in terms of dementia, etc.

1 hour ago, j swift said:

Was there a scene when Whit and Co moved into the mansion or bought the newspaper? 

I read that his introduction was mistaking Margo for Lisa and making a pass at her in her sleep.  But, he seemed so established in Oakdale, with an old mansion full of stuff and a housekeeper, that I wondered if there was an establishing scene when he purchased all of the stuff?

No one knew that Lisa married...it came after Fulton's three month leave she took during those contract cycles. Lisa appeared and first scene got into a fight with ole Johnny Boy, was at the hospital talking to people etc. There was a rapist who was targeting Lisa's neighborhood and Margo wanted to be a decoy in her house...(how the rapist would just happen to pick Lisa's house when Margo was hiding???) Margo was hiding in her bed when we saw a guy come in and climb into the bed and Margo punched him out...we go to the hospital with Tom and Margo telling Lisa they caught the guy and he is getting his head bandaged and Lisa barged into confront him and then..."That's my HUSBAND"! Which is the first time the audience or characters knew who he was. (it was the Dobsons and they thought it was exciting and funny..)  They lived in Lisa's house while they were building the mansion..."In the cliffs overlooking the town" (uh, first we heard of it and there are no large cliffs in the midwest..) but the Fulton left and it took them a few months to cast BVF and I think that summer they had a party for opening the house.

1 hour ago, j swift said:

Even though she already had money, Whit brought with him a very nice house, somewhat loyal staff, and a newspaper.  From her time at the bookstore, Lisa displayed a love of reading, and writers.  So, perhaps the thought of a career in print media was appealing?

Ha..you thought more about this then the writers...I could see Lisa being swept away with a totally unOakdale kind of guy, who was in journalism and knew writers, and I could see Lisa being with a guy who she couldn't d*ck around with..(I ALWAYS wanted Reva to have a rough hewn guy who loved her but did not think she was the Goddess of love and called her on her crap..) and Lisa was not that rich when she married him. She was comfortable, but she ran Penny's bookstore and the created Fashion's with Babs. So I can see Lisa getting caught up in being RICH. I can also see Lisa wanting her own family as opposed to be Hughes adjacent all the time.  However none of this was ever in the writing, she just appeared one day married to Whit. I also think the problem was that the actor had so charisma and no chemistry with Fulton.

The actor was a friend of the Dobsons' and they were really, really into guys being aholes and thinking it was sexy...Steve, Nick and now Whit. I think the goal WAS to have Lisa and Whit have a temptuous relationship and when Fulton was there she did give Whit as good as she got in scenes...but then she got bored, and started playing Lisa as a ditz, and the writers leaned into that. then she left , and BVF was very placid as Lisa..as far as she got when he was attacking her own son or friends was "OH Whitttttt!"  A guy has to have a ton of charm to play a guy like Whit and the actor did not have it.  And yes, Lucinda came on to avenge her husband's suicide and then Marland retro wrote it and what came before didn't make any sense because of it.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

We did get a  number of characters who were moving on with their lives without a romantic relationship, like Lisa, Luke, Holden and Lily (although they were likely going to reunite). It's just the stories were either nonexistent, or badly told.

Yea, but Lisa's wasn't because she made a conscious decision..it was just cause "well we have to put her in there somewhere..." which as you said is bad writing. And if Holden and Lily had finally said, as I wish Carly and Jack and Reva and Josh would have said..."You know, we really need to take a breather from each other and repeating our mistakes and dragging other people down with us.  Lets' focus on our kids, our family, our jobs..." but again, bad writing but I would love to have a soap character just say, "Its okay to be single and not looking!"

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I minded, namely because Lucinda and Barbara were once feminist icons (daytime, which was not unproblematic, but still) and they ended on such a conventional note-unfortunate, imo

I agree...I wish they had shown that people don't need to be "coupled up" to be happy, or at least coupled in the conventional sense. I would have ended it that Babs who spent so much of her life chasing after, being effected by the men in her life, was okay with running her business and just having a younger lover (why does everyone have to be "married" in a soap and a wedding is so cliche for a TV show conclusion.) and Lisa is too busy with her businesses, her family and helping the new generation of Oakdale's wayward youth cover up paternities and past lives and lovers that she feels the same. So the last scene of both characters would have been them at Fashion's...Lisa, "So Barbara, its you and me and our businesses, did you ever think both of us would end up this way after all that time lost chasing men?" Babs going over to hug her, "No, but I am sure as hell glad it did! And are you the Lisa I know talking about endings?" Lisa "Oh honey, no, we have a LOT of life and a love or two left in us! Which reminds me, I just came back from the hotel and saw ole Lucy and Johnny Boy acting like newlyweds and trying to make me as the kids say, jelly...well I can tell you  by lunch they will be at each other's throats and he will be kicking that old hag out of his room like a dime store hooker!"

1 hour ago, zanereed said:

@Mitch: do you know *when* TPTB were trying to get Hulswit back in the role? This is the first time I've heard that he was ever approached to return after firing him in 1981. If it was during 1997, and he declined at TPTB then decided on Gentry, that's fascinating. However, as you said before over in the GL thread, the Bauer that should have been brought back during the Santos storyline would be *Mike Bauer*. That would have made much more sense and more interesting than Ed, even though the storyline involved Michelle. Regardless, Uncle Mike would have came back to protect Michelle as Ed would still be in Africa at that point. I even think that Don Stewart would have come back full time if they asked him to.

@vetsoapfan: I guess I don't see the opinion of Mart Hulswit as the best Ed Bauer being an unpopular one , but you know my opinions already when it comes to TGL.

Hulwist being asked...I don't know the for a fact (but I write it as if I do..) but I read that someplace..I thought here or maybe...the dreaded Datalounge! I think bringing Mike back and having sexual tension with Carmen would be kind of interesting...(but in my GL world Carmen would NOT be the cartoon Cruella DeVille mob boss, but more "mob adjacent" and protecting information that may include her dead husband's dealings with a certain Brandon Spaulding which Alan himself wants covered up.)

3 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

We may be in the minority on this board for liking the pairing of Casey and Lyla. Many don't seem to like Lyla much (or perhaps Sward's portrayal of the character).

I think Lyla made a great background character. To Marland's credit he did keep her on even though some of it was a bit forced (Lyla opens her house to borders...what is she, Bea Reardon...Lyla has a hot nightclub music career..a middle aged nurse in central Illinois???) I thought it was nice that she got a guy who truly loved her but I didn't  think they were on fire or anything.

I think the Dobson's screwed Lyla up...she came on as this tough ex-hootch with a past and then she was recast (due to Hastings not liking the first actress) and she was both softer and younger. I see clips of Sward back then and wow, she is a cute sexy thing but no fire, and they broke her off from Bob too soon...( Marland would have reconnected them after Dee's trial just for the impact of the reveal of Margo having an affair with Bob's stepdaughter's husband...and Lyla knew about it...I don't even remember a reveal coming out, the show was so disconnected with their families at that time..) and the Montgomery family was kind of on its own.  I did like Lyla being super protected Mommy of Craig and calling Betsy on her behavior!

On 9/25/2021 at 10:32 PM, Joseph said:

So what's the story of this one?

She needed a quarter for the parking meter in front...

I can't beieve they strangled Stephanie later....

13 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I'm confused about what happened to Whit McColl's house. I thought that went to Brian when Whit died. Perhaps Lisa was still living there but by 86, it looked like she was living in a different place, one that didn't resemble Whit's house. With so many missing episodes, recollection of events become disjointed and muddled.

Lisa lived in the mansion until she bought "Caroline's" and turned it into the Mona Lisa. So she moved into Doug Cummings (what an odd last name Marland..kind of like "Rod" for a rapist) old place above...(kind of weird Lisa moving into a murderers pad but I guess better then living in the place where Ole' Whit got konked on his toupe...) No mention of what happened to the mansion after that but it was a really ugly set.

Marland commented that when he joined the show it was the "Steve and Betsy" show and he wanted to turn it into an ensemble. You knew the writing was on the wall for Steve when he had another one of his hissy fits at Bob and Kim and...Nancy and Chris were in the room! See YA Stevie!

12 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

In his first year or so, what other characters got the chop?

Who did he bring in?

Yea, all of the characters previously mentioned plus, some guy who Lisa had taken under her wing..he was an ex con and Doug Cummings killed him. I liked him and he and Fulton had a weird younger man/older woman chemistry. I remember her saying she was pushing for them to get together, and then he was murdered and she was. "They made me wear black and cry and mourn and I never got to sleep with him!"

On 10/2/2021 at 2:25 PM, Xanthe said:

ut Cecile indulged in a lot of high comedy before she disappeared from Bay City in 1984 when she was investigating Royal Dunning's murder. I particularly remember the time she and Felicia dressed up as nuns and then told the police it was for a production of The Sound of Music. Oh, and when she went to talk to some witness with Wallingford and hilariously kept overlooking the fact that the witness' corpse was stuffed into his refrigerator. I

God, I loved the show at that time..there was so much comedy going on with that murder investigation and all the oddballs (Cecile, Felicia Wallingford, Jackee's character).

1 minute ago, Soapsuds said:

@Mitch I thought Jay was my boyfriend?

Aggh..there is always a vixen getting in my way. I am heading over to the Yacht Club to talk to Real Lisa on how to deal with this latest development!!!

There is always Kirk you know..he's rich.....

3 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I will say I actually liked Barbara Crompton as Mindy.  It's just that the show kept her in the Nick.and Alexandra too long.  The last few months of her stint, she felt more like Mindy..and had a good rapport with Robert Newman at Lewis Oil when she was working there..and had chemistry with MOL (who came back a few weeks before she left).

That's weird as that was the time I felt she came to life was during her last few months out of the dark cloud of Alex/Nick and with her family and Rick. Agree, she was one of the few women who had that kind of chemistry with him on screen.

1 hour ago, Craigger said:

But at 88, even if they do find her, how do any of you know what  she would be saying? Alan is most certainly not afraid of her or anything she'll say. Bring on Eileen. Go find her and to anyone on here who thinks that Alan is afraid of what she'll say - YOU contact Eileen and interview her. Go ahead. We'd love to see it!!!!

I don' t know how many older people you deal with but I can tell you, all the ladies in my family were spicy up to very end, and my Mom, was full of opinions and no problems letting you know them, and despite her dementia, could remember things from 70 years ago....(but ask her about 5 minutes..not so much.) As a matter of fact, she got spicier as people just dont give an F by then.  Don and Kathy have always been more laid back and not really treating the show as if it was their entire life.

1 minute ago, DramatistDreamer said:

It sounds somewhat convoluted.

Yeah, that was a genuine fashion designer, back when soaps could afford such things.

The last decade of the show could have used some interesting stories. I would have brought back Kim Ullrich Johnson as Betsey Stewart (no use trying to bring back the McColls, none of which had been seen since the late 80s, early 90s). I know the show claimed to have considered bringing back Steve but I really would have, for a brief story arc. I would've brought Dani and ignored that entire disgusting story that I heard of (which I thankfully never saw anyway, I would like to personally backhand the fool who wrote such an awful story) Dani and Craig , it never happened, .

The other day, I was watching an interview with Eileen Fulton, where she talked if returning to the show and having to step over Whit's body, . She also talked about the fun of doing scenes with Elizabeth Hubbard, the battles between Lisa and Lucinda and those early scenes with Lucinda putting her feet up on Whit's desk after she'd taken over his office. I would love to see those scenes!

Yea, I don't think she and the Whit actor, or who we used to call, "Whit the wig" were fond of each other. From what Fulton says...(and you really can't rely on her..she likes a good story...) they were going to kill off Lisa and she called and said..."If you do, I'm going to play the body!" so they brought her back..and killed Whit instead, or us Fulton says, "Old dead Whit!"  I can't imagine Whit the wig was happy to be the corpse instead of her. 

How I wish Eileen was able to be on one of Alan's shows..she would totally go off on a tangent and not listen to a thing he says and dish about TPTB or at least tell a few good stories.

14 hours ago, Bill Bauer said:

I couldn't stand Peter Simon. I actually have a bad physical reaction when he pops up on screen. I'm not entirely sure why. I actually prefer Richard van Vleet and that's saying a lot!

Lord..more then one person saying they liked RVF as Ed..the world has gone MAD!!  I never like PS, I know he is a good actor but he comes across as so..disinterested and cold.  I heard they tried to get MH back but I just can't see Rauch and MADD and that group wanting to bring back a "fat" guy!

22 hours ago, Spoon said:

Rick could've easily have had a kid with Abby as she left town right after their split. I hated Ashley but at least making her a Bauer would give her a point as opposed to local rando with no strong ties to canvas.

Ashley was.uh a bit bigger...so she could have been a Bauer...(I like the Bauers to look like real people with some meat on their bones..following in Charita's mode..) and she was always butting in and giving people unwanted advice so yea. I can't see Abby hiding that fact from Rick, especially as that was the reason they gave for her wanting to leave, she wanted to focus on her career and delay kids...plus I always  wanted a bad Bauer on screen..and imagine an Annie offspring!

19 hours ago, Frank2803 said:

Although a smaller guy I could buy Justin Dea's Buzz being a tough guy and standing up to the two big bullies of Springfield 

Deas Buzz had a Napolean complex...and that worked except for the fact that no one brought him down a peg or two. I can see bulldog Buzz going after the big guys but I can' see Alan or Roger being intimidated by him. If by tough you mean loud..yes.

Following along the theme, an unpopular opinion might be that O'leary never came back as Rick and they recast the role either at the time they brought Rick back...(JFP was throwing a bone to fans in the aftermath of Mo dying) or later on, around the time O'leary indulged in his worst tendancies of mugging and thinking he was daytime's Bill Murray and lets face it, when he got sloppy fat!

30 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Oh, so this is the episode where Craig's lies all unravel!

No matter who was writing and who was in charge, this show stayed with having Steve crash swanky events looking like he just left the construction site. I wonder whether Frank Runyeon slightly lost interest once Meg Ryan left the show?

Ariel was just blithely going along scandalizing Barbara's name. Was this because she split with James?

So, Margo risks her life to save Barbara? This would not be the last time this happens. And again with no backup.

I was NOT expecting to hear an instrumental version of "Jamming" by Bob Marley and The Wailers as the models walked the catwalk. 

Also, although I have heard about another McColl, I am not familiar with this one. I may have seen her once before. Is she Brian, Diana and Kurt's aunt, or something?

That homicidal Richard or Davy Jenkins (who came up with that name??) looks strangely similar to the pyromaniac who was on that special Christmas episode of The Golden Girls, lol.

It seems as if The Earl Mitchell Center was the fulfillment of an idea that may have started with The Refuge.

I did giggle when Betsey, professing her love to Steve, says "I'm never going back to Craig" and I couldn't help but say "only when he offers you a job".

They made Frannie look so old in that outfit!

Also the Asian woman modelling a "kimono-style" dress seemed a little 'on the nose'. Designer's choice, I guess.

The music in the action sequences was so 70s!

Was this a real designer? Anyway...Charlene was a showgirl who was actaully Whit's REAL wife..they got drunk in Vegas and married and they never divorced...but she was nice and he I guess payed her off and they passed her off as "Aunt" Charlene. Lisa had issues with her but never knew the truth and when Eileen came back she just disappeared. I loved her and she was funny, they should have kept her around as I could see her becoming friends with Eileen's Lisa and possibly dating Bob before Kim..that would have caused Lisa to be jealous and if Nancy was back, a raised eyebrow.

I also love Diana, the vixen with a heart who actually liked Steve and as you see here, got over it to be friends with him. I wonder how Marland would have written her?

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Wow, is that HBS' Margo?? She looks very "New Wave" 80s! Was her stylist from Soho? I can't wait to dig into this episode later on.

Thank you, @Soapsuds, you've made my Friday!

 

Somebody please ask Hillary Bailey Smith to give us the 411 on this one, I know she probably has a story about the styling on this episode!

This is a great episode..the 84 stuff post Dobsons-pre Marland was a lot of fun, more freewheeling and light hearted then what is to come. What are these episodes where the backstage guy appears..it doesnt look like the finished product but the credits role.

Richard Farichild was a psycho who the audience at first suspected of being James (who had fallen out of the plane a few months before) but he wasn't as we see. This was a really good strangers on a train thing that John meets him and casually mentions his old rival pain in the butt Bob Hughes. Richard shoots Bob expecting John to do..something for him..(I forgot that part..) Well Richard begins to fixate  on Babs cause James is gone and she is not a vixen yet so they needed her to do one last damnsel in distress thing. So Margo was wearing a wig to look like Babs to lure Richard out in the open. 

I love Ariel, who is really, really funny in this and actually Betsy VF is good as Lisa...a little more upidity but it was nice to have a breather from Fulton's jittery, stammering Lisa. If I was  a producer I might have kept BVF (unpopular opinion.) I love pre Marland people being bitchy to and about each other...I love fierce Lyla calling Betsy a slut, (this Lyla is actually interesting..)Lisa and Ariel bitchiness to each other. Marland would have written it as Lyla telling Craig to take the kid back because "Honesty is the best policy, and I am sure Betsy made mistakes but look at her feelings..." Blah, as campy as the show could be at this time the dialoque and the reactions were more realistic then Marland.  I dont know what the hell Lisa was wearing but how nice to see a show with a real budget.

I liked FT as Brian...(sorry, the guy who replaced him always skeeved me out..) And of course...my high school crush at the time..Jay!

23 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

You picked the wrong partner if he doesn't know who Betsy is.

HA...but i originally went out with him as he reminded me of Ross Marler with his suits and glasses so, it more then makes up for it!!!

19 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Do you know that I have met young people who do not know what The Wizard of Oz is??

Where they from...Pluto???

19 hours ago, vetsoapfan said:

Anyone who doesn't know either Betsy Stewart or Dorothy Gale is dead to me. DEAD!

Hahaha...we were at a game and I told my neighbor that his mom was Besty Stewart and he went nuts.."I used to watch that with my mom...Betsy was SO hot...I thought she was the perfect woman" and then I found out he ment Meg Ryan and I said..."No not the DUMB Betsy..the smart Betsy!!!!"

12 hours ago, mango said:

Thank you for sharing. She looks great! I'm a White Sox fan, so I think of her every time I hear Lucas' name. Here's to a long post-season run for Chicago.

Amen to that!!! I was telling my partner that Lucas was "Betsy Stewart's kid" and he of course was "Who the F is Betsy Stewart??" I said.."She's on MY show" ..he says.."Didn't that go off the air a long time ago?" It still lives in our hearts..

Go SOX!!!

18 hours ago, Spoon said:

I enjoyed the Cassie/Edmund pairing and seeing Edmund evolve into a more layered character.

I love DAM but..someone who was trying to kill a child....and while yes, he did try to kill Reva...depending on who you talk to that should have gotten him a medal...it was hard.  I know they kind of explained it as when he fell it knocked whatever tumor was in his head loose so he was more normal but...here is something non popular...I HATED Scott Holmes as Tom..he was stodgy, cranky and stiff.  I think DAM would have been a great recast..yes, it would have been another de-aging of Tom but he would have made Tom fun, and sexy again.

18 hours ago, Spoon said:

They should've gone full steam ahead with the Leah Bauer SOARSing. Was it ridiculous?  Yes, but so was Harley's daughter being a teenager TWICE! TPTB toyed with the idea of making Jeffrey Ed's son. They should've went for it. You would've had Ava as an instant Bauer plus a Bauer/Reva off-spring. Jeffrey was being rammed down our throats anyway, he might as well be a Bauer. Especially since Michael O'Leary was clearly no longer capable of driving story long-term.

HA..they backed off of that as the "internet" found out and went nuts...only a core group of, uh, women of a certain age..loved Cole and it came out when word got out..they just wanted to pretend everyone loved him so they backed off. They were also going to make Ashley Rick's daughter when he donated sperm but wisely canned that idea. What I think they should have done and can't believe they didn't, is make a daughter of Rick/Annie be alive..(didnt they say Annie miscarried Rick's kid) they LOVED pumping the Annie well, can you see a teenage version of Annie, who comes on acting all sweet, but has an agenda, coming in and being a Bauer too.."Michele, did anyone ever tell you that your annoying???"

13 hours ago, Frank2803 said:

To add on about Phillip as the villain. It was interesting because you rarely see the hero of the show becoming the villain. It's usually the villains who are getting redeemed.

Plus, for once, it was played by a good actor who was also physically threatening..not by what he did, but just his size. The lost a good op to bring him back and make him a bit darker..he would still have a relationship with Rick, Harley, etc but it would be constantly strained. And your right, it would be interesting to see someone in a soap's inner circle be a bit off the path..usually its someone, easily shunted aside not one from a core family.

2 hours ago, Frank2803 said:

Guiding Light's Edmund never worked for me as a supervillain 

I think making Phillip Spaulding into the supervillain of the show was interesting but it was ultimately a dud 

DAM was a good, but they needed to cut their losses on Eddie..too many times to San Crud. Phillip goes to hell was interesting...and I wish that he had come out of it a bit more dark, but big bads are only good short term. I do think that the end result of his death was that Alan dies,  and Phillip is suddenly the patriarch with Amanda and AM coming back for the funeral and Alex making occasional appearances to referee and make snide comments to one and all. Rick should have dumped his MOL really thinks he is funny but he is not schtick and been the Bauer patriarch and Phillips good angel, Beth matured and able to go to battle with Phillip when needed..etc.

58 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Yep he did use Meta quite well, and it was the never heard again Lighthouse Gala was first mentioned. He seemed to tease a pairing between Alan and Claire too. 

I forgot about the gala..must have been getting ready for the anniversary but then Taggert came in...and yes, Claire disappeared with Taggert and right when Ed came back.  A bit of an edge of Claire being F Buddys with Alan giving both Ed and boring Chelle the fits would have been fun.

1 hour ago, Broderick said:

Goutman also mentioned going on those "inconsistent remotes" because they couldn't afford to "rent a tree". 

"Dark Shadows" was never BIG-BUDGET, but they had a zillion "trees" in their studio, most of them being branches glued to music stands or something.  Those little kids on Dark Shadows could get lost in the "woods" and wander around all night, without ever leaving the studio.   It didn't look spectacular (obviously) but it set the atmosphere in a somewhat believable manner.  I was hoping Goutman would expand a bit more on the cost of "renting a tree" versus going on a remote, and if they simply didn't have the backstage personnel to figure out how to improvise with the props they already had.   

To be fair...DS was more "surreal" so the branches worked...and it was always a good laugh to see somone knock over a cardboard tombstone.

I do think it odd..I mean wouldn't cost more to send people out....but I also always wondered why soaps didn't do that even when they had budgets...seeing someone on a fake park bench with an obvious backdrop when you can go on the street to film that.

36 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

I enjoyed Lloyd "Lucky" Gold's tenure on GL, things were actually happening under him compared to his predecessor (cigarette girl, Blake becoming a joke, and mob shootouts in the Bauer kitchen.) With the exception of the time travel storyline, I enjoyed it. The show only got better when Taggart joined, and later Carolyn Culliton. Things got worse when Conboy/Weston's episodes started airing. 
 

Well Loralie was pretty stupid..not an alter but that anyone would think that this woman who looked exactly like Beth was any thing other then...Beth. Never understood the decision to just have her return a few weeks later with her alter in charge and no one knows. But it was a step in the right direction in terms of explaining why the character of Beth ran from simpering victim, to vixen, to out right bitch, to heroine and anything in between, but it wasnt followed up on. I do think Gold had a difficult period in that he was transitioning from San Crud, and while resurrecting Carmen..made the mob less prominent..he did do more with family stuff and little character things and used Aunt Meta well.