Mitch

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Sadly, that nay be one of the key reasons why Lucinda had no serious, and long-term other pairings, other than John Dixon (although you can see attempts with characters, here and there).

 

Something came to mind in reading your post-- silence doesn't always equal consent. Scene partners (and the director) who allow another actor to go off on an ad-libbing tangent may not agree with it yet will let it go because in the fast-paced environment of daytime soaps, it might be easier and cost effective to just move on with the scene, rather than stopping to reshoot, particularly if the tangent is not too disruptive to the central drama.

This is not to slight Hubbard at all, who did some memorable, wonderful work but from the perspective of a writer who has also done some acting (onstage), it can be taxing for everyone--scene partners, director and writers to consistently have to deal that one actor who is always going off script.

Yea..I see in the reunions Martha give Liz the same look Lily would give Lucinda...so maybe it WAS Martha.  I also see from the reunions what a pain in the ass Liz must have been...it was all about her, she talks over people (more so then the rest..)

On 1/3/2021 at 8:48 PM, DRW50 said:

nothing against Peter Boynton, who was fine in other moments, but I don't think he had the charisma to pull that off.

He always came across as so stiff and uptight..and not the stiff and uptight guy who can be crazy in the sheets..he just always came off as a drag..so the women throwing themselves never seemed to work that well. I do wish they had hired a really sexy Latino guy..but...I think Marland would have felt it was too much and give him the vapors.

On 1/2/2021 at 7:41 PM, DRW50 said:

Marland seemed content to make various character changes when he took over - Kim and Betsy began sharing far fewer scenes, Steve

I hated that he ignore Betsy and Kim for Kim to focus on Frannie. The point of Bob and Kim was that they brought this family together of kids of different ages and (like Betsy) not bio kids to make a family.  Of course, I was watching the Meg Ryan years where all Kim did was support her (what a waste of a character) but the relationship was strong.

2 hours ago, Vee said:

That Carrie Nye story was a blatant ripoff of Peter Straub's Ghost Story both times, so I can't take it seriously tbh.

Actually, the Eli Simms one was the ripoff of Ghost Story. (town patriarchs are attacked by a mysterious foe...a girl comes to town looking like someone they harmed in the past..)..but hey..if you have to "borrow" from someone, it should be interesting. What soaps after 1993 would ever borrow anything from a book..it was other shows or movies.

3 hours ago, zanereed said:

 

I actually could believe that Bill Bauer knew the Lewis, Spaulding, and Chamberlain families, considering Bill's career in Public Relations. I always took the liberty of believing that these three families were some of Bill's top clients, so he and his company would take them on an annual fishing trip. Bill happened to be acquainted with Tom Reardon because of that.

 

The storyline, itself, was fine. It helped in intertwine the main Springfield families. What I was never happy with (and still not happy with) was that they used this storyline to kill off Bill Bauer, a character who had been on the show in some form or another since at least 1949. Bill's death was pretty much used as a plot device for the story, and there were no long-term effects on the Bauer family at all. If Bill's death had brought Simone Kinkaid (Bill's ex and Hillary's mother) back to town to spark a new storyline, that might have made the death serve a greater purpose. As it was, it didn't do much at all.

Agreed..and it did tie all the families together in a way which worked..if they had continued on with it being those 5 families being the main families going forward. Hate that they killed Bill, he needed to be around in the background and coming in on various events occassions...(imagine him at Bert's funeral.)

On 1/3/2021 at 10:40 AM, soapfan770 said:

That’s a good one. I remember liking Gentry’s Ed a whole lot more especially coming off Simon’s last two years as a sourpuss between drinking on Halloween 1994 to Ed telling Michelle she could not date her “cousin” J.  That said the show wasted Gentry’s time. The Bauer/Blue family feud was some good stuff yet Ed was barely used even though he was in the center of it all. Gentry & Tina Sloan had good chemistry and I remember Michelle being a tad bewildered  that Ed developed close relations with Lillian again but the show never followed up. Ed was diminished after a few months and soon appeared less than Meta to give advice. Gentry only lasted a year, and his Ed was mysteriously shipped off without any fanfare with the excuse being Ed was drinking again due to Michelle’s involvement with the Santos. 

And we really needed Ed for the Santos stuff...it was weird that they would get rid of him at that time...(and I think that Gentry would have weird chemistry with SS..not that Ed would get with her but she would be kind of turned on by him standing up to her...)I liked Gentry (agreed so tired of sour puss Simon) and the show did have the Bauers involved in the attack on Abby and her trial, etc. so they could have done a lot with him. I did like his chemistry with both MG and Lillian and I opposed to others, wouldnt have minded them getting together..(Ed was much more to blame for Mo then Lillian was.) I could even seen him with Alex...TPTB  were obviously no the least interested in rebuilding the Bauers.

17 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

And, between the resemblance between Annabelle and her mother, and Quint and Nola's involvement, it had those nice, Gothic touches that someone like Agnes Nixon would have appreciated.  I'm just sorry the writers didn't follow the same template for the mystery with Miss Piper and the Cottage of Doom.

I never understood why Nola and Quint weren't more involved with the Cottage of Doom.  Sacrilege but I would have killed off Quint in that storyline not Butch Hillary..there was nowhere to go with him. Carrie Nye threatening Nola and Nola not taking any of that crap would have been great...but they had to shoehorn annoying Fletch in..

44 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Granted, the storyline was built on an absurd premise (that Bill Bauer, Henry Chamberlain, H.B. Lewis, Tom Reardon and Brandon Spaulding were all friendly with each other and liked to go on fishing trips together) that contradicted established history.  (For one thing, the Lewises and Spauldings weren't even IN Springfield until the 1970's and early '80's).  But, on its' face, I think it was a well-told mystery that affected all the major families in town.

 

And it was a damn sight better than the Maryanne Caruthers mystery, too.   

Agreed..it was at the point in the show that all the families had equal time and they all "worked" together...Reardon's blue collar...Bauer's upper middle class professionals, Lewis'  "neuvo riche" as Alex would love to say, Spauldings and Chamerlins...rich aristocratic and dysfunctional.  The forumla should never had changed. Anway..the storyline itself while as you said, very premise was absurd it was a good tight mystery (and it didnt hurt to have Mr. Tony Reardon in the center of it all..)

1 hour ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

I'm making my way through those February 1991 episodes.  I'm not sure how much of this was posted before, but I think I skipped whatever bandstandmike had posted from earlier that year and started with the summer—although I always meant to go back and see how Curlee/Demorest, et al laid the groundwork for what came later.

 

I'm curious how far out in the middle of nowhere was Holly's (previously Reva's, I know) house supposed to be?  The way her first visitors were carrying on was surprising to me because, in later years, it seemed to be as centrally located as anywhere else in Springfield, like when Roger managed to drag himself there with a gunshot wound and hide out in her basement.  And Holly made a reference to setting up a fax machine and modem so that she could keep in touch with WSPR...was she supposed to be telecommuting or what?  I guess she was 30 years ahead of us (and technology).

 

In any event, I so hope there are more episodes coming and we get to see that party Nadine talked Holly into throwing there to introduce her to Springfield as the new Mrs. Billy Lewis.

Pam Long originally create 5th Street to be the down rent version of 7th Street, which was blue collar but respectable..When Harley first came on she was termed a "river rat" as she lived in the wrong side of the river. I do wish later writers had dug that up..like she she married Phillip and someone would snicker.."Wasnt she a river rat???"  Reva during her attempted suicide (and I agree with Zimmer, totally out of character) jumped from the rich side and was saved by Cain and dragged to the poor side...which is why she bought "Reva Bend." which was a dump until she let H.B. pay for renevations.  So, RevaBend was not out in the country.. in SF but the wrong side of SF. I do like Long's attention to geography and the class system....the Bauers, the Spauldings, the Chamberlines and the Lewises lived "on the hill" and then here was 7th Street and 5th Street, etc. I would think by the time Holly bought it, that area was gentrifying.

On 12/31/2020 at 6:33 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Whereas Liz Hubbard and Colleen Zenk seem to look back at their characters' periods as vixens/vamps with ambivalence, Melanie seems to embrace her character's unabashed sexuality, which I appreciate. When men play 'bad boys', I never remember any mentioning  regret or hesitation at taking on the role, why do so many women seem to do this? Perhaps it's a generational thing?

Well, I am sure Zenk was just embarrassed by the OTT that Sheffer made Babs..jumping out of the window??? Hubbard..love her but you can see she was a pain in the ass...she was on ALL the time and she complains?? I can see why writers and producers ignore actors..they can be a bit narcissistic.

19 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Granted, given the ever evolving nature of media, soaps probably would have always reached a natural conclusion, but I think the complete focus on commercialization which led to the plot driven writing, in my opinion, was a contributing factor. 

Good points!!! And yes, I think soaps were naturally going to end...I just wish they had done it with dignity. Everyone on FB etc, who are desperate for a GL reboot...really? You know it would suck...(sorry, could care less about the AMC reboot but if it works, good for them!)

16 hours ago, DRW50 said:

It wasn't until Emily's pairing with Jef Hamlin that I began to warm to her in the role, and sadly, that only lasted for less than a year before Emily was thrown into a heinous story which obliterated the character. She was then "redeemed" by rape (ugh) before the whole thing started all over again with her desperate efforts to ensnare Tom, which were just pathetic and foolish and toxic (all THAT over Scott Holmes Tom....really????).

 

Yes, she was miscast..they really just needed to either not recast Emily or give the character a breather.  I like her..but as someone else...(her helmet hair when she first came on was distracting as hell.) And yes..I had the biggest crush on Jeff Hamlin..why did they get rid of him..I mean, we all knew he was going to get screwed over by her but why just end it? I can actually see Emily gravitation towards Deas Tom or Marx's Tom..a nice big protective brother figure, but Holmes Tom had no warmth, no generosity of spririt if you will that is needed in the role, and came off as someone really hard to even like, much less love.

14 hours ago, DRW50 said:

The mid-90s seemed to be the peak of these firing campaigns, culminating in late 1996/early 1997 with the Jeff Trachta fan protest outside the studio, and the fans who sent canned goods into the ATWT studios demanding they "can-her" (Susan Batten's Connor). 

I think back then, at least on message boards, no one thought anyone was listening..so it was like talking amongst friends with no repercussions on the actors..(I learned my lesson when I made Frankie D's wife cry..) But agreed, that was the time the "fans" got ahead of themselves and TPTB took them too seriously...Point A is Brad Cole's mysteries "popularity" with a core group of women who constantly harranged the studio about him.

On 12/24/2020 at 3:34 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

While watching the GL fundraiser livestream, I can't remember whether it was Robert Newman, or Peter Simon, or maybe Grant Alexander who mentioned how, for many years, GL used to focus on characters celebrating Christmas, rather than existing storylines for their Christmas episodes, and that in later years, the show did the opposite, using the holiday as a backdrop, while centering existing storylines.

I mention this because I have noticed the exact same thing with ATWT. While watching an episode from 1985, the aspect of characters celebrating the holiday was the focus. Clearly, nuggets were being dropped of characters that we would see months, sometimes years later but the main focus was Christmas Eve, Frannie's birthday and Christmas.

I don't know whether it was a budget thing but, in the last years of the show, having a meaningful celebration of Christmas seemed almost like an afterthought, where the episodes insisted on ploughing ahead with the existing storylines.

It was Simon, and yes.. I think it was moving the shows towards a more plot driven focus and away from character driven that changed that.  I don't mind that the plot continues to move forward, as whatever we are dealing with in our lives continues during the holidays...its just when the plot completely dominates that it is a problem.  A good example is a GL episode where Beth comes home to Lillian on Christmas Eve and the fallout of Dylan being Reva and Billy's kid is dealt with. The simmering hostilities at the Spauldings is going on at Alex's party, and at WSPR you have the rest of the cast renacting the Christmas story and small issues and problems being healed (Ed and Fletcher make up...)  All in all a good example of plot and sentimental Christmas celebration..(as only Pam Long could do.)

As I have said before..Marland is a colder writer so his family celebrations always seem stiff and formal compared to GL..but he actually seems to stop the plot more then  GL did.

20 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I just started watching and Kassie is in the group with the Bauers but wasn't Chelsea a Reardon?

All the Reardons except for Mo were gone when she was on, so she interacted with the Bauers the most and was considered one.  Bea was on for her intro, but she never worked with Lisa Brown, Melissa, or the Matt actor.

I just watched the reunion and it was great! Whatever faults Alan may have with not knowing some things, I do think he really did love the shows. It was great to see everyone...(though I did feel like a bit weird finding Little Bill attractive) and that they obviously really like each other. I agree that Evan seemed a bit standoffish but she has had a hell of a year so the fact that she even did this was great..PAS looks damn sexy now and I never thought one way or the other about him on the show, and Nancy looks great too...though, the weird musical interlude from SS was..weird...

19 minutes ago, slick jones said:

 

@AmandainNC28655

Oh my...Kristi sounds like Granny Clampet now. I couldn't tell what she looks like. Funny for someone who did under fives she, while not a great actress brought a lot of charm and life to that role. Krista looks great, and Kimmer looks happy and fun. Please, Mikey, no more impressions!

1 hour ago, Forever8 said:

I would watch that with some popcorn and a nice drink. Who else would be on the venue? 

Liz Hubbard would have to be on it.(though I don't care to hear about her acting "processes" just break bad Liz..).Beth Ehlers (just let her rip on Zimmer for writing about her in that book..) Maureen Garrett seems to not have a problem dropping a bomb or two in her laid back way..maybe Lisa Brown..Fiona actually stood up for Zaz and got backlash for it..who else?

10 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Imagine susan Pratt multiplied..and you would have Fulton in terms of doing Alan Locher's stream.

Oh, yea, have Susie Pratt join in along with the others..."The Divas of Soaps Grab TPTB's Balls and Rip Them Off for Good" would be streamed time and time again!

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I would love it if Hastings, Prinz and Fulton could do a livestream via Zoom or Skype but Alan had previously intimated that Fulton might be up to this, which also seems rather convenient for Alan since we know how averse he is toward any type of candor in which uncomfortable truths are told and anybody who has followed Fulton since the show's cancellation knows how deeply disrespected she felt during the final years of the show. I suspect that there would be some comparisons made between the show's early years and its final years and it might not be pretty, which Alan likely wants to avoid at all costs.

Can you imagine Alan trying to reign Fulton in..even just a few years ago, and even more now if she is starting to "not give even more damns," what people think. due to age. The only thing to add to the surreal would be Collen Zenk and Kim Zimmer joining at Happy Hour...

On 12/11/2020 at 9:23 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

 

Don Hastings may have mentioned a little bit about this, but if he did, it must have been brief.

 

Has Rosemary Prinz been invited to any of these reunions? She has done theater live streams, so I think she would do fine with the format. She'd also be a hoot! If no one contacts her for one of these reunions, it will have been a missed opportunity.

 

I know when Beth Ehlers was portraying Irna for the GL anniversary show...(and a great job she did..she was better as Irna then as Harley at that point) she mentioned that she went and talked to Hastings and Fulton, and that he was great on her mind set and Fulton gave her tips on how she spoke and her body language...so it would be great to hear from both of them in dept about Irna.

13 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

I forgot how bad 1986 was. This must be when everyone in town. Was working at HB's Summer Camp. 

 

God I remember this..I was in college and I still thought it sucked..Alan and India vs. Sour Kyle to find the "Andoran Gold," or whatever, everyone at that damn summer camp...(don't forget the lake monster) chemistry testing Billy Lewis with Roxie of all people, big hulking Dinah...the only saving grace was Reva spent a good part of the summer "snorkeling" at that camp and Zimmer was at her peak..she looked great.  Weird, as Marland was getting ATWT together and it was at its peak then...(before it became an overlay sincere morose show.)

12 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

ATWT

Just remembered Lisa's son Chuck who was for some reason killed off in a car crash in 77? 

There was zilch fall out and it meant that in the 80's when he could have sorased into a new young lead he was gone.

Less for Lisa to do.

I still agree with Marland's first idea..he wanted to bring the kid back instead of Scott. I would have brought Dr. Shea back with him...(i.e. Shea faked his death and then to punish Lisa faked the kid's death..how I don't know but stranger things have happened.) I would have had him be the one to be the one to go after Betsy..sent by Shea to get back at Ellen and her family. Lots of interesting stories in that if a good writer could figure out the how of it all.

8 hours ago, cassadine1991 said:

I never truly noticed how much he’d make so much noise with his lips

 

 

He would have been a good fit as one of Carmen's henchmen (conspiring and then knocking her off) and NOT Roger's son.  I also never noticed the southern lilt in his voice and I can never forget his..flirty scene with Josh of all people...weird but interesting casting.Things could have come together, Blake joining forces with her brother, Ross caught in the middle but having antogonistic relationship with him and I love Togoni's tough street version of Dinah..."Well, hello Manners, did ya forget yar talkin to the mayor?"

14 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

Also, it's clear that Lisa was Oakdale's Great Connector. If you were new in town, it was best to make her acquaintance, as she would likely introduce you to the whole town. I wish I had someone like that in my life, networking would be easy

Every show needs someone like that..and Lisa was the perfect fit for it...knowing everyone by being the town's glam busybody and her mothering of all the young people and the lost souls. Gautman and MADD never got that she was important in that role (or that a role like that was important) and its to Diva Fulton's credit that I didn't hear her complain about it at that stage of the game.

45 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

From watching their goodbye episodes in spring 1985..you could see the writing on the wall regarding Quint and NOLA.  Some couples aren't meant to stay together forever.  I think Long tried to write for them...but by mid 1984..it was difficult.

 

So I would have had NOLA come back in 1995 eccentric with a hint of melancholy..and regrouping at the Boarding House.

I don't know that Long tried all that hard..after they were married and Eli Simms was over...they were sidelined.  I have no idea why they didn't get the Cabin Mystery...(I would have had Nola and Quint move into the cabin) or at least be more involved.  A mystery and ghosts and Nola wasn't all over it???

17 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

I think having him off on one of his archeological digs with an occasional suggested phone call would've sufficed until Michael Tylo was open to return. Once he did return, the show should've made them the matriarch and patriarch of the show as they were pseudo-Bauers. 

The problem was the magic was gone...Brown and Tylo didn't have much chemistry when he came back. I think Quint is a problematic character...almost more a plot point then a real character and he really didn't flourish outside Marland's gothic storyline. Though, they never wrote well for him after Marland left so he could have returned more adventerous and rough hewn on his second run. If it didn't work then he and Nola split up as he wants to travel the world on digs and she is tired of it. "Quinton, I really cannot stand to be kidnapped one more time by one of your rivals..I am getting too old for that!!!"

50 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

Agree.  And if bringing back Quint wasn't in the cards, then all they had to do was kill him off.  Hell, he could have been PRESUMED dead, lost on one of his archeological expeditions or something.  Suggesting he had cheated on Nola?  Quint wouldn't have done that.

I respectfully never get it when someone says that a character would NEVER cheat on someone...when it happens all the time to get people in real life...(hmmm Chris Hughes  never cheating on Nancy..Tom Horton never cheating on Alice..okay, I will go with that.) I think the problem with Nola and Quint is that they made him so much a pr*ck about it, even bringing her to Henry's funeral, and Nola being a sullen mope. That was out of character.

However, yes, I would have gone with Quint being presumed dead..(I would have it that it happened off screen during the Van/Bridget custody battle and why no one could go to her...and it would allow the character to search for him and go through a greiving process off camera) Henry goes and brings Nola back to Springfield for a visit while the kids are at school and then she promptly sees a void at both the Boardinghouse and the Reardons and at the Bauers..where she makes herself a lovable pain.  I was not wedded to Quola and think there was no where to go but to kill him off the first time around, and I thought Brown had great chemistry with Josh Evans and I would have brought him in as someone else..Chief of Police who always has Nola getting into his business...and then bring Quint back.

On 12/5/2020 at 8:31 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

What a fun episode. Those Meg/Emily scenes are pure soapy goodness. Jennifer Ashe and Melanie Smith are so good in this battle of Will's at Meg's hospital bedside. Had Jennifer Ashe stayed on, I am convinced that she/Meg would have had a much bigger imprint on the 90s ATWT. Ashe was so good at switching perspectives and emotions so quickly. At one point she looks so vulnerable and in the next moment she is turning the screws to Emily. And that look on her face when she discovers that she is actually pregnant after her public pretense is a subtle shift yet priceless. Speaking of reversals, the twists and turns in those scenes between Lucinda and Kirk were entertaining and fascinating, especially when Kirk questions Lucinda about her relationship with James Stenbeck and Lucinda is forced to admit that she was taken in by James' dark side. Suddenly, with that mysterious phone call, Lucinda looks at Kirk suspiciously.

A role reversal, of sorts, between Bob and Tom with son advising a sulky father to be open-minded about Nancy's blossoming relationship with Mac.

The choreography of character movements on ATWT in public spaces was second to none among daytime soaps at this time. Just take a moment to look at the blocking at the hospital, the Yacht Club, even Lucinda's office with characters moving in and out. The timing is Swiss sharp. The mention of Dusty reminded me of how irritated I was that, in later years the show decided to take a Harvard educated protoge of prominent businesswomen Lucinda Walsh and Adelaide Fitzgibbon and transform him into a two bit wannabe small-time good. Even Brian Bloom's childhood character in 'Once Upon A Time In America' was more complex and more convincing as a gangster. Also, I was reminded of adolescent Dusty gawking at swimsuit-clad Shannon at the Yacht Club and her half surprise, half amusement at Dusty checking her out.

 

I still believe that there are not enough episodes with other characters up on YouTube. I mean, didn't Nella work as a nurse at Memorial? Weren't she and Meg friends? Where was she? This must have been the time when Victoria Rowell was in the role and we see almost none of her on YouTube.

The show was so good even with character's I could care less about..and even with yet another sweaty Snyder making over Lily (and thank God MB got those eyebrows under control) with so many characters and the moving around it is hard to get bored or annoyed by characters you don't like. If you watch the same day episode of GL there are about 8 characters and the pace seems so slow, even with Zimmer doing her best to keep the energy up.   I gotta say I am with Bob (plus I hated Dan) and really dislike the soap trope that being single means you are "lonely" as Tom says. (uh no Tom, she was grieving its different you ass.)

12 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

While this story spiraled to the death of GL, I don't think anyone can deny how well written Ed's affair with Lillian was. But God, Ed was a selfish bastard. Something that always p*ssed me off was that he never had his feet held to the fire over the affair IMO. 

 

Watching this episode also raised all these "what ifs." What if they didn't kill Maureen and instead tossed her into Fletcher's orbit? I always felt those 2 had stellar chemistry and for once, it would've been nice to see him win despite the fact that he could irk my nerves at times. 

 

 

I really think this caused my dislike for PS as they wrote Ed like a total pr*ck...(but it was JFP's GL..the "star" of the show became selfish Buzz...) and it wasn't his fault, he just played what they wrote for him. He said in one of the reunions that he kept looking for Ed's redemption but it never came.   Maybe a recast would have worked that could seperate the character from PS's Ed.?

Nola did confront him later but her anger was more directed towards Lillian and they wrote her as bitter from her own husband's affair. They missed a great opportunity to have Nola come back and try to take over for Mo...in the kitchen (not Ed's bed) and trying to mother Chelle and hand out advice and screwing it up as only Nola could do. When she finds out what Ed did, the man she always thought of as a big brother perfect husband kind of guy her anger would be justified and having Ed use that to actually tell the audience how guilty he feels..would have been great.