Cat

OK, so I have a question. On other threads, there has been much debate about Daytime's penchant for rapists, and redeeming rapists, and pairing them up with their victim. Like rape is somehow romantic. I think the overwelming consensus is that this is one of those awful, misogynistic themes that run through soaps which should be retired. So how do you feel about it in context to Roger & Holly on GL? I watched a TV special called Roger Thorpe - The Scandal Years on YouTube. It looked like it was put together in the early 90s, and Michael Zaslow and Maureen Garrett presented it. The special had tons of clips detaling the characters and their history on the show (as an aside, the intense friendship between MZ and MG is plain to see -- they cuddle each other as they watch the clips. It is very moving to watch). They show the affair, the marriage, the rape (which is certainly not romanticized in any way), the trial, and Holly's shooting of Roger, which was somehow rather empowering as a viewer. Then the Santo Domingo scenes (sigh, a proper international shoot!) and later, Roger's return and how Holly was slowly being drawn to him again... I can't deny the intense chemistry between the two actors, and I buy that these two have something dark and troubled in them that binds them together again and again. They are obsessed with each other. At this point, I buy everything they are selling me. The rape is there and a huge factor in their relationship -- but it doesn't define the relationship completely. In some ways this is complex and refreshing. In other ways, it is worrying that I want to watch these two so much after what he did. What do you guys think? Is this yet another case of two actors who have chemistry overwelming the natural evolution of a SL? Or an organic, fascinating exploration of two people's very dark relationship? This brings to mind a scene from Santo Domingo... Holly and Roger are stuck in that grotto. Holly, sick with fear and anger, screams and rushes for him like she's about to strangle him. Roger does the same. Then they stop and just kind of look at each other. It is hard to describe the scene because there is so much going on in terms of emotions -- they seem to be mirrors of each other in a lot of ways. Other thoughts: Maureen Garrett's Holly is no weeping wallflower. I love how real and complicated she is, how multifaceted and witty and sad she can be. Her mellifluous, grave voice is so wonderful, I could listen to her speak all day -- such a contrast with the brittle, nasally voices of actresses today. They do not write characters like that anymore, but how I wish they did. So compelling and yet so recognizeably human. Chris Bernau -- what an amazing Alan! I only ever saw Ron Raines but CB blows him off the map. I know Roger and Alan were big rivals but at one point Roger confides in him about kidnapping Christina and leaving town, and it adds a whole different layer to this rivalry/frenemyship. Michael Zaslow is... no words. He brings energy and oxygen to every scene. Force of nature. Roger must have been as popular a character as Reva, perhaps even moreso (I've been watching 1983 GL and Reva is kind of hokey, a loud soap character like any other). It must have been a huge blow to the show when he was fired. Ross Marler -- hero or villain? Discuss.

That's how I felt about watching Santa Barbara, GH, Days back in the day. I'm sorry I missed GL the first time around and, while it's not the same, thank goodness for YouTube. I am catching up slowly but will undoubtedly be back in this thread to read posts and post random questions, lol.

Well, I saw the Maureen Garrett news and just because I am a soap fan, I clicked on the link which led to more links and some YouTube video regarding Holly and Roger's backstory. Oh. MY. GOD. I never knew. I never understood. I heard about GL -- the old GL, the great GL -- but my exposure to it was KZ and LW chewing anything in sight and some guy called Jeffrey stinking up the place. Oh, and Jammy. And then GL went outdoors and I just couldn't watch face something so cheap-looking. The Holly-Roger clips OTOH? Were amazing. I'm not just talking about marital rape which was tough and honest and MG did that story so much credit and honesty. I am talking about their stories involving Blake and Ed Bauer and these two incredibly complex, multifaceted characters. I just saw a clip where a drunken Holly tells Blake she never loved her. Astounded at how good the acting is, how drawn I am into the story. MG is just amazing. MZ is a force of nature. I am rediscovering something special about GL for the first time (I am also catching up on some 1983 clips of the show, it's a lot of fun). I am only sad to have discovered the show after its demise and not during its glory, as I did with AW.

YES! This whole scene makes me LMAO. That and Sonja kicking off her clothes and Heather saying "I saw so much of Sonja's of boobs and vajazzle in St Barts, I wondered if I should feed and water them." I love Sonja. Uncanny!

Oooooooooooo. I love me some Kennedy/Radziwill drama. Real Housewives of Cape Cod... starring Lee Radziwill, Taylor Swift, Carole R and Caroline Kennedy. Make it happen, Andy (And yes, I know it never could). It's funny because Carole's attitude -- put on a sweet face, bitch about the other ladies behind their back -- brings Jackie O to mind (yes, I know she's an untouchable icon, but she disparaged Martin Luther King privately while still accepting to appear front row at his funeral). Back to RHoNY -- Cheap once posted a jpeg of Sonja blow-drying her body while Ramona stood there like it was her own personal wind machine. It was when they were in St Barts. I thought of that today and literally LOL. Scene of the season IMO.

I agree. I was disappointed by Carole because this seemed to be really her -- or a side to her that had been kept hidden because, you know, her MIL is Lee effing Radziwell and Andy was attracted to the cachet. It was kind of an eye-opener, actually. Heather was really the only one who came across exactly the same as she does on the show.

RHoNY reunion was great because one minute I was pulling for one lady, the next for another. Sonja proved why she needs to be back next season, as did Heather and Luann. Luann was smart to bring her beef with Carole down to the simplest, most relatable thing, which was that she was hurt that Carole would imply that the dresses were good enough for Michelle Obama but not good enough for her. It really made a mockery of Carole's non-elitist stand earlier when she talked about not using her princess title. And I say this is a big Carole fan but she did not come off well in that reunion as she does on the show. I know everybody hates Aviva but I still hope she sticks around. I thought her recounting of how she lost her leg was moving and not gonna lie, I teared up when she talked about screaming in pain as the machine crunched her leg. Ramona and Sonja had the grace to look affected during that segment, too. I do think Sonja and Ramona should have accepted Aviva's apology. I buy that she rewatched the show and saw how crazy and unreasonable she was being. I also buy that she saw public opinion shifting away from her and she decided to cut her losses. I actually liked the Aviva-Ramona friendship earlier in the season. Heather is fantastic. Ramona -- she's a slippery one. My verdict's still out on Crazy Pinot who throughs even her BFF Sonja under the bus.

Wait -- Jill Zarin was on NYC Reunion last night?! This I need to see! I haven't caught NYC Reunion yet but I am looking forward to it. It says something about how toxic RHoNJ has become when I consider two drunks vs. a one-legged tight-ass welcome entertainment. The saddest thing about RHoNJ is how ALL these women have become dead-eyed hysterics throwing their own aunts, uncles, sisters, brothers and children under the bus for the sake of fame and this show. Melissa seems the strongest and savviest and yet at the same time this chick buys as fiercely into the fantasy of the fabulous life as Teresa. "Joe and I could buy that house 5 times over" -- bitch please. The show has ruined these women's lives. It has bankrupted them financially, emotionally and morally. None of them can do anything but lie.

Damn -- Kim Richards has no excuse with that awful clown make-up. Her eyebrows look like they have been colored in with Crayola. Kyle always has fabulous, dewy make-up. She needs to lend out her make-up artist. Jacqueline Laurita's awful nose job threw her face completely out of whack.

While I *love* the new women -- especially Heather who is just so relatable and deadpan, the voice of the audience in a way -- I think the dynamic which works is the "new three" rubbing up against the "old three." I can't tell you what a pleasure it has been to see Ramona called out on her BS. I liked Ramona when she stood up for Bethenny against Jill and her crazy attack dog Kelly, but other than that Crazy-Eyes Pinot is narcissistic to the point of psychosis, and the fact that Heather and Aviva call her out on her behavior and trashiness is pure bliss for me (that, and her horrendous 90s dress sense). And the fact that LuAnn is now dealing with a woman who has a higher aristocratic title than she is pretty good, too. Finally, the Countess gets taken down a peg or two. Honestly, I thought Pirategate and helping Sona out made LuAnn viable again. On their own, Heather, Aviva and Carole might not generate the story and interest needed to keep RHoNY going (even though I think it is pretty clear that outside of the show, H, A and C would have zero interest in socializing with R, S and L). My gut tells me LuAnn and possibly Sonja will be gone next season. Carole may ask to be let out of her contract as she works on developing her show based on her book. I can't wait for Reunion to see them hash it all out. I want Sonja to see how Pinot threw her under the bus Monday night.

Also, Kathy's nose job looks cheap, her mouth looks weird, and her weave looks AWFUL. Teresa had the best dress there, green is a good color on her (LOL), it was also very cleopatra-esque, but that vaseline-smeared glitter all over her chest and face? Gross. I wanted to grab a kleenex and blot it.

Also did you notice that Teresa called out into the wings "Ma! Ma! Did you hear that?!" If Kathy was calling Teresa's parents effing liars with her aunt right there, that is some fucked up [!@#$%^&*]. I wish Andy would bring Teresa's mom and dad and Kathy's mom to the sofa, gently talk to them without those hosebeast screaming at each other and see what they have to say because I would imagine that, unlike the nutcases on RHoNJ, Tre's parents are not famewhores and actually care about what happens to their family. I would also want to see that fake ho Melissa's face drop when her parents-in-law come in because you know they would tell Andy the truth about how she threw any Gorga family harmony under the bus in pursuit of a gig on RHoNJ and a "singing" career. I had so much other stuff to say, but then I read D-Listed and it kind of put this toxic show into context: http://dlisted.com/2012/10/01/speaking-scaring-wild-beasts Speaking Of Scaring Wild Beasts..... From Nishanto the bear scarer to Rosie the gorilla scarer.... On last night's reunion of The Real Housewives of New Jersey, the rabid animals from the New Jersey exhibit in the Bravo zoo were all stuffed into the old pageants gowns of Miss Venezuelas past and were forced to go after each other while a confused, scared, wonk-eyed gay squirrel looked on. And DAMN did they go after each other. In the clip above, new-faced Kathy goes after no forehead-having Theresa by calling her father a coward. Theresa returned the slap by bringing up Kathy's late father and that [!@#$%^&*] awoke the butch beauty beast! Former HSOTD and Kathy's sister Rosie nearly made Theresa's gorillas in the mist hairline jump back a few inches when she started screaming backstage. Rosie threatened to rip Theresa's head off and serve it to Kate Capshaw. Cousin Rosie went OFF like somebody just took the last Home Depot lumber cart that she had her eye on. We won't really know if Cousin Rosie ate Theresa's head off until part two airs next week, but this is all I needed to see.

Hahaha! The glory days of S1 and S2 NJ! BTW, you forgot that Danielle Staub makes 5! "Cuckoo! Cukoo!"

I miss the days of 4 women, too be honest. 7 feels a little overwelming. I'm just bummed all the NJ women came back. I just feel nothing for any of them now. At least they will be filming new VTs because Teresa in her bird-feather dress and her scary hairline pressing down on her eyebrows is the scariest thing I have ever seene. I don't know if she is at the moment, but I tuned in once a while back and shut it off after 5 minutes. It was Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Finally caught up on this week's RHoNY episode! A couple of things: The Aviva/Ramona fight... it tires me out just thinking about it and I just can't. Only that R & A met at Norma's at the Parker Meridien hotel on W56th, and this place has the BEST brunch IN THE WORLD. No joke. Go there if you are in town! Aviva's fur-collared gown: WANT. George had no bidness showing up at that domestic abuse charity event, and he is about as embarrassing as Ramona. Ramona looked like the Little Mermaid threw up on her in that dress. Sonja's scenes were very moving, and the best I have ever seen LuAnn. In fact, they were the best the RHoNY have been in two years. I know TPTB must be ready to let heads roll given this season's slow start, but I love it now and want all the ladies to comes back. I hated Heather at the beginning and now I love her so much, even that "Holla!" in the opening credits no longer annoys me. I liked Dina on RHoNJ but that HGTV show is awful, SO boring, and she comes across as boring and bitchy in it.

AMEN to ALL this. I get that Jill "powered" story but if you want to know what it would have been like if she had stayed on the know, picture RHoNJ as it is right now and ratchet up the unwatchable factor to 1000. Jill Zarin would think herself completely untouchable if she was ever asked back. She would be completely vicious and insufferable to watch. Having her turn on cast members she deems weak is like watching somebody kick a lame puppy in the head. It is awful. Want to see straight-arrows like Heather and Carole beg Andy to be bought out of their contracts? Bring Jill back. She will crush this show under the weight of her overinflated ego. P.S.: Hurrah for multi-year contracts!

I don't know why she is staying with him. Just like I didn't understand why she forced him to mount her in that vineyard in front of EVERYBODY after it was obvious he was taking a call from another woman. BTW, [!@#$%^&*] is a dealbreaker for me -- I have a problem with men who call women that hate-word, whether to their face or behind their back. So what's the deal? Is she completely dickmatized? Feeling the guilts because she bankrupted him? Saving face because his and her families came over to the US together? Completely no self-esteem? I don't understand why they are playing this charade.

Actually I think Joe is going to try and intimidate Andy with a staredown and a few "Watch your back" comments. JMO. Teresa will prob yap "There's no proof my huzzbind cheated" blah blah.

I've watched this show from time to time (don't feel the need to download it like I do with the RHs) but I can't hate. Kourtney or Khloe or whichever is the one who looks like a wookie is awesome. I like Kris Mom Pimp despite everything and Kim, while vapid, has surely the most amazing body I have ever seen on a woman. The family dynamic is the hook and I honestly feel that it is genuine.

I was heavily distracted by Kathy's awful wig. That thing is going to scurry away and make a home for itself with BH's Lisa's fur hat! This show is funereal -- chronicle of a death foretold.

The producers clearly played the housewives against each other -- and they played us the audience because all everybody is doing is wondering who knew what and who was to blame? I suspect Teresa knew about the set-up and sanctioned it and maybe had last-minute stomach pangs because it might mean she got caught with the smoking gun in her hand. Let's face it: Teresa is crazy jealous of Melissa and cannot forgive her. Girl is from Naples and she is going to hold a grudge like nobody's business. Plus she wants to be right all the time and Queen Bee at all costs. And that means humiliating Melissa and making it seem like Melissa is the one who wants to get between Poison Gorga and his famb'ly. It's clear Pete Giudice knew what was going on because he congratulated Teresa on a "good job." Teresa must love the fact that Pete looks like Juicy Joe because it allows her to blame Joe's indiscretions on mistaking Pete for him. But Melissa is no angel and while I don't know or couldn't care less if she ever stripped, I think going onto a TV show with the express purpose of bringing down your SIL is not something that anybody can forgive right away. No wonder her parents-in-law don't want to see her. The way she was whispering to Poison what to say ("say 'Shame on you!'") in the car was very telling. Jacqueline, I think, was told about the set-up by a producer and that's probably why Andy Cohen didn't fire her ass when she refused to come to last year's Reunion. Because she was upset and it was a direct result of what the producers did behind the scenes. Sigh. I'm sure we will see tons more [!@#$%^&*]-stirring and grudge-holding at Reunion. IMO, this show went wrong at Season 3 when Kathy and Melissa joined. For the first time, I didn't understand a thing that was going on, from the fight at the christening onwards. Everything felt edited and fake in a much more acute way than other RH franchises. Everybody is playing a role and it is so obvious. I have never warmed particularly to either Kathy or Melissa but at this point I don't like anybody except Jacq's husband. RHoNJ jumped the shark in Season 3 but it is still sailing over the shark fin in S4. Everybody needs to be fired IMO and perhaps the NJ franchise she be retired for a year or two, if not forever.

What's she going to do now that her career as the next Gretchen Carlson has not taken off? Man that trampoline park? I wouldn't have minded if she had stayed one more season on RHoOC because I wanted to see her and Jim get humiliated some more.

So we sat through that looooooooooong ass season just for the Posche fashion show? Hell, they should have just shortened it to that godforsaken PFS mess, Juicy Joe's Napa booty call and anything involving Milania and Gia, and thrown out everything else. First of all, I can't anymore with Ricky Wakile and his inappropriate sexual jokes at [!@#$%^&*] business meetings. Melissa chasing that "singing career" is just . "We chose not to go with a label last year"? Bitch WTF ever. . Caroline and Jaq are so sour I can't even with them. I only liked Caroline when she and Lauren were looking over the premises of Cafface (that name is so wrong BTW). Dina, who I used to love, made a MAJOR mistake last week coming on the show to snigger about her sister with Teresa. It made her look so petty and hard-up for publicity. Teresa is living a life of her own invention for the cameras. I think we already know this. That Italian lesson was about as authentic as Stouffer's frozen lasagne. I can't make out whether Strippergate was something Tre set up or not. Probably. Though she did look wearied and cornered when that guy introduced himself. Like maybe she'd set it up beforehand with Kim D and then had last minute reservations about it. BTW, Teresa looks 1000 times better and younger with little-to-no make-up. I have to wonder if the palpitations Teresa had at the PFS were palpitations of guilt. There again, I don't know what to make of the fact that Teresa didn't scream "prostitution WHORE" at Melissa when Melissa claimed she couldn't place her former boss. I know Teresa is passive-aggressive but she seemed hesitant and off. Like I said, either she didn't know but knew Kim D was behind this, or she knew and was having second thoughts as to how the fallout was going to make her look.

Heather: I saw Sonja's nipples and vagina so much on that trip, I thought I should start petting and feeding them. This BITCH. I love Heather now. She and Carole are prob my favorite NY housewives and, like Heather, I could see both sides in the Aviva vs. Ramonja row which was infantile in the extreme and hit new levels of hysteria. I don't have anything to say except that Mario is probably booking Ramona into a "spa" as we speak. Sonja's drunkeness really reflects how unhappy and alone she feels. At the end of the day it is the clash of two types of personality -- loud-mouthed, rude, party girls vs. Aviva's self-obsessed, tight-assed homebody. End of. Carole is so... sigh. Awesomeness. And St Barts trip really revived the show. This is what it should have been like 5 episodes ago. RHoNJ by contrast is just... done.

We need Before and After Australia pictures of Jill, stat!