P.J.

I'll never understand why they didn't give Ed an older, illegitimate son. (ATWT was always adding "surprise" children.) You can't tell me Ed didn't love and leave someone in all those years. I'm going to backtrack a bit--I just caught a scene from the very end of ER's run, where Hope finally stands up to Alan. She might not have been able to do a full out War of the Roses type story, but I think she could've definitely conveyed a stronger, more determined Hope.

Bringing back Hope to fill the Bauer matriarch would've made sense after Maureen died.

Ugh. I hated Calla. This is the only role I ever saw Lisby Larson in, and I just don't get it. She was shrill and grasping, and without one redeeming quality that I can recall. Tying her to the meek Lilian certainly didn't do her any favors. Jessie was just bland and boring. She didn't have any kind of spark. I love Vanessa and Ross' friendship. There was just a point in the '90's (for sure) where I wanted better story for them than what they got.

I get what you're saying. I know people loved Hope, and she's the only Hope I remember. But there's not really enough of her up online for me to see what everyone saw. She reminds me of ATWT's Lily...and frankly that's not really a good thing. ER comes off as very matronly at such a young age that it's confusing.

If the benchmark is "impact outlasted their run on the show", on GL I'd say Nola Reardon. Nola's popularity cemented the entire Reardon clan in Springfield (at least imo) which carries through to the 2000s and more if you consider that Michelle's connection to the Reardons was never forgotten. I truer example, perhaps: Carrie Todd. The brief marriage to Ross really changed his direction, making him into a reliable force for good in town. And while they didn't have any children, the ghost of Carrie kept Ross a bachelor for a decade.

I get annoyed by Reva-supporting Billy too. After the dirty she did him, really only marrying him to stay close to Josh, coming to town to chisel him for more money ugh...they never should've gotten along. NEVER. But, y'know...Reva's just being Reva. RME. I do firmly believe that in '89, the show kept their options open, and was seriously considering going Vanessa/Ross. In fact, I think in 89-90 a Ross/Vanessa/Billy triangle would've been a lot more compelling for Ross than the Ross/Holly thing. I really never understood why Ross perpetually got the fuzzy end of the lollipop in the romance department from Carrie to Blake. Now that I think about it, I'm a little surprised that (back in '83) they didn't try Ross/Hope. It would've been a lot more natural for Alan to blow a gasket over his ex-wife being romanced his rival (who Philip was growing closer to) than losing Trish to Ross.

There are times I forget how deliciously Chris Bernau played Alan. He's never cartoonish, even when Alan is clearly twirling his mustache.

Oh, me too! Maeve and Jordan's chem literally jumps off the screen to me. And they had it from their first scene. As Henry says at one point "they were born to fight". I think it's because they aren't overly sappy that I adore them so. Aside from Ross, (which is a lot of backstory) Vanessa's early romances are plot devices and short term. I also adore her chem with JvD, because you could always feel the history between Ross and Van with them. At some point, I just wanted Vanessa to be happy, and imo both Billy and Ross fit better with her. Billy's my number 1, but Ross was a close second.

I'm all in on ANY scenario that ends Van's relationship with BoyToy.

Yes. And I swear I heard in a convo between Henry and Vanessa that it had been Vanessa's plan to merge with Spaulding and then take it over. They really do dial back "business Vanessa" after Alan fires her in early '83. She actually does get back into Spaulding after Henry's heart attack in August, and Alan leaves her in charge while he's off on a trip, but he's set her up for failure, which she manages to avoid with help from Quint and her secretary Lance. It's after Alan proposes (and she winds up marrying Billy) that she leaves Spaulding. And after Alexandra arrives, it's always the Spauldings struggling over Spaulding Enterprises. I agree--it would've been nice to see Vanessa school the Spauldings, but somewhere along the line, the Chamberlains became more like a Greek chorus to the battles than players.

I can't argue that Vanessa wouldn't have been justified in steering clear of Billy. He is extra sensitive to feeling betrayed by her. But the heart wants... I have wondered if Marland would've gone back to Vanessa/Ross after Carrie (assuming he could've written her split personality the way he wanted to.)

As Mitch posted, they were from Chicago. As was Ross. They came to Springfield to merge Chamberlain Corp with Spaulding. Other than Alan and Ross, I'd imagine they were introduced. I haven't really seen anything that suggests otherwise. Vanessa doesn't seem to have any college friends in town (as Trish was introduced). You'd think she might know Justin and Jackie, since she dated Ross,but I haven't seen/read anything suggesting that. Henry knows about a connection between Lucille and Brandon, but Lucille doesn't seem to know Henry.

Totally agree. Not that she wasn't layered, but Marland sure wasn't rushing to reform her either--much like Josh, actually. The pill story just kind of blew up out of nowhere. I honestly don't think Long cared enough about the why of it, as much as she needed a fast way to free Reva up for the romance with Kyle. I guess slipping on ice wasn't tragic enough for whatever reason. Vanessa's return in '89 is pitch perfect. The less said about Vanessa A.B. (after Billy) the better. The only thing about that relationship that I think rings true is Vanessa acting on what she thinks is right for her. Matt's opinion isn't changing her mind. I never bought that she would've given him the time of day. Not even as a fling, other than he should've been easily disposed of.

I do bless the Quolas for preserving what they did, and sharing it. Even if it's occasionally frustrating to have Vanessa scenes all chopped to hell. It's funny, Tony is slinging it all over Springfield, and not one pregnancy scare. I agree--Vanessa's basically a walking plot device for the first two years. She's not even in love (other than Ross, who treats her like crap, although arguably not without reason) as much as she's desperate for attention. While Tony is at least a decent man and available(even if I agree any sane woman should've run far and fast) Mark and Andy are creeps, and she knew Ed was still married and hung up on one if not two of his ex-wives..

True enough. And she's involved in the Quinton reveal.

Which leaves me wondering what direction he had planned for Vanessa. When he leaves in 1982, she's kind of directionless, at least imo. He couldn't have been serious about the pairing with Tony, fcol.

It had to be the original plan. Henry is already looking for his son when Quint arrives in town.

thanks for thinking of me, slick!

I think Long (or someone) tried to build back other families as the Lewises cycled in and out of town. They tried the Bauers with Johnny and his family, Long definitely tried the wacky Shaynes. Fletch and Lilian gets sisters, then we get the Coopers. I think some bad casting and some lackluster story (or both) doomed a lot of that.

Marland wrote all kind of gothic melodrama for Duncan and Shannon on ATWT. So that type of character wasn't out of his wheelhouse. I don't think Marland would've made him Henry's son if he didn't intend on having him stick around for some amount of time. Beecroft doesn't seem like the kind of guy who sticks around in the same place long. Whether or not Brown left because of the way Marland exited is anyone's guess. I don't think Marland would've made Quint/Nola as "perfect" for each other as they were though. This is the same guy who used Josh to break up Kelly and Morgan after all.

Yes. On a quick scan of eppys, Trish mentions Josh to Mike on 9/3/81 and Vanessa and Henry talk about a meeting with HB on 9/4/81. I can't immediately find a reference to Billy before Josh arrives, but in one of Josh's first convo's with Trish, he mentions Billy. There's not a lot of details about them, other than HB and Henry have been friends for years, and Trish describes her and Josh being bored during dinner as HB and Billy talk business. Marland plotted a year in advance, so it doesn't surprise me as much that the Lewises were at least mentioned. On ATWT, he would foreshadow new business people like Darryl Crawford and Damian Grimaldi coming to town all the time. Marland has them coming into money much later than Long did. Trish tells Mike that she wasn't "born" into money like Vanessa was, getting rich when she was 12. Under Long, HB hit his first oil well when Billy was a toddler, and Sally invested money in his company.

You know I do too. As much as I love Marland, I can't envision his Billy being as dynamic as Long's. And I suspect Josh would've remained more of a hothead/jerk, with stable older brother Billy reigning him in, much like the Seth/Holden relationship he wrote on ATWT. Trish and Josh were close---they just weren't overinvolved in each other's lives. Trish wasn't forced into the "little mother" role of the Lewis family until Reva blew into town.

Trish came to town first, around June 1981. But she had been mentioned long before that. Vanessa was telling Sarah in therapy that Trish was married to Andy Norris, and that Andy had abused her. (Andy was dating Katie in Springfield, who was Sarah's assistant/nurse which nowadays would be putting Sarah in an awkward position) The Lewises as a family started getting mentioned around this time, HB and Billy by name, and they are supposedly coming to town during this time. A deal with Lewis Oil is also the focal point of Diane Ballard's machinations, as she blackmails Henry (with the knowledge he fathered Quinton) into pressing HB into terms more favorable to Spaulding before she's killed. Josh came to town in October 1981. The backstory of Josh being hustled by Andy and Leslie Ann (aka Candy) for half a million was written by Marland. He created Josh as the black sheep of the family, where Long turned it around and made Billy into the screwup and Josh as more of the romantic loner. The Lewises as a family aren't considered "loud" or "invasive" until Billy and Mindy show up in May 1983. Granted, I get the "loud" part. I think the invasive critcism is mostly a reaction to other vets getting written out and Reva's arrival when the show pushes her front and center.

LOL...Keith Charles sure got around. Obviously, viewers at the time would've known about how old Hope was supposed to be, but 40 yrs later, and missing a significant amount of episodes, the waters are muddy. Thanks everyone!