EricMontreal22

I admit those are all good points...

I think she's great, and it's a solid album. I'm not sure I think it's much better than 19, and I know it's stupid, but I find it kinda annoying how big she's now become in the US when that album seemed to be ignored there. And I find the album kinda samey--by the end I start to get tired of it, and I'd love to hear her do some different stuff (no, I don't mean by that Kylie pop )

Ha ha and he's shirtless from the start! I do think the last 6 months of City were really strong and they had found their footing, their pacing (even ifsome characters like Tony Soleito were beyond annoying they managed to balance it out). I also think it would have worked better as a lkate night soap--I know several ABC affiliates claimed to be getting better numbers showing it after Nightline or whatever. At the time it was also the only ABC soap that was slowly (ok, very slowly) improving in the ratings, when AMC, GH and especially OLTL were starting to slip--but it had already been essentially canceled. I dunno, but I wish she would... But yeah the fact that there was zero AMC crossover whatsoever was pretty lame. I did like her on Loving (and especially City where her and Jacob helped cement the other characters), and it was about time the show got a Black presence (I know of course that Agnes wanted to bring Carla/Ellen Holly and I believe her mother too from OLTL over to Loving but Ellen saw that as kinda a diss). And that's a great interview. I know HW and EPs are notorious for saying what we want to hear and not acting on it, but they did seem to have a clear idea what was missing--and you can see they were starting to fix that with Racy and other characters.

Ceara ran away to Corinth due to a fight with Jeremy--I believe she went to stay at Kate's boarding house. This was Fall 1991 (nov maybe?) and Jeremy went back to get her--Kate and Ally and others helped set them back together, I know WOST had one episode of Loviong from this era where they're locked in together in Kate's garage or tool shed or something. I had JUST started watching AMC around this time, and tuned into Loving for the cross over but still at the time wasn't too familiar with AMC's characters, and didn't get hooked permanently on Loving till the following Summer's Carter story. Off the top of my head, and briefly, Carter came to AMC terrorizing the new DA Galen (who was never really a fleshed out character though I think she was played by two different actresses--I remember one of the first times I heard an announcement in a soap about a recast, it was for her)--who had been his wife I believe. Trevor started helping Galen out with Carter, and in retribution Carter set fire to Trevor's house--which caused Natalie (soon to be NuNatalie with the rather dull Melody Anderson) to go blind. Carter felt guilty and (this is where my memory gets hazy) befriended a blind Natalie who couldn't recognize him, passing himself off as her nurse where he fell in love/obsessed with her. He eventually had her kidnapped to a houseboat. Meanwhile Hannaha nd Dinah Lee from Loving came to AMC to stay at Myrtle's boarding house--she was an old friend, and it turned out that Carter was from DInah Lee's past as well (I think--maybe it was Hannah's...) Anyway this all led up to a week long cross over on Loving where Carter ended up being chased to Corinth--I believe he tries to attack Dinah Lee in Pins and Jeremy and Trevor come in the nick of time. There was also a cute scene where Trevor meets Shana (his wife in real life) and they mention feeling sorry for anyone who marries them. WOST did post one episode at the end of the story--I wonder if I saved it? Anyway, Jeremy decides to stay in Corinth... And yes some Loving characters made cameos at that Spring 1992 wedding--later on on Loving, Myrtle showed up at Dinah lee's wedding I think )It was held at the Alden mansion). What I *never* got is when Angie from AMC moved to Loving, they never introuced her briefly first back on AMC to give fans of that show an idea she was back before moving her to Loving. Just seemed oddly done.

Ha let it be said that I loved the Dante Partou story with Curtis his little "pet" in the cage--Agnes at her Gotchic wackiest. You're right about the Heaven stuff, I was exagerating. I believe there was another threat to a character mentioned in heaven which again came to nothing... Don't remember Tess and Jeremy being paired... I mainly remember him briefly with Stacey, the Ava on the run story, the Hannah sexual harrassment story and Gilbert, his twin.

I liked Jocelyn and her incest storyline a lot--partly as she was never really played as the victim, yet, as you say, wasn't annoying either... The Azure and racism story I think were wen City was trying (as Gottlieb's OLTL recently had) with sorta shocking short term storylines. It was a mistake (as was doing a sub par retread oif the Loving Murders so soon) but the show found its footing about 6-8 months in.

SHana was an illegitimate Alden, though she was absorbed into the clan but always kinda an outsider. I think Stacy was kinda in a flux after Jack. The story with Clay making her think she saw his ghost (with, from what my 11 year old mind can remember--hologram projectors lol) was pretty far fetched (though not as far fetched as Ava doing a low budget version of Vicki's trip to Heaven or the infamous devil storyline). Still, I was sad to see the only original cast member--who had never really been too central but always a likeable presence--go in the murders. But I guess they did that partly to show they meant business. Jeremy IMHO never fit with anyone at Loving. The long trek with Ava where they ran from that GH villain (?) had cute/funny moments and went nowhere. I liked the character, and was glad they brought him over from AMC in a way, but except for Hannah crushing on him, he never had much of a use, and the evil twin story was not particularly well done. Angie, for example, fit in on the show much more immediately. I was shocked Ava wasn't going to The City (though Alex had many conversations with her off camera). For the most part, with the distance of time, I can say that I think they brought the right people to The City, but it probably would have brought more Loving viewers over if they had brought in a few core/older members. Then again, City's ratings were virtually the same as Loving's, so maybe at that point it didn't matter at all?

A pretty standard Agnes Nixon plot--I didn't realize it happened during her return as HW, but it makes sense.

Cranston seems solid in the 1984 online ep... Thanks SFK, I had heard it was commercially released. Maybe I'll order it... Wow--amazon still has copies in stock they claim!

Yes. One of the episodes--I think Hannah found him? Or was it Steffi?--is on youtube. She's in that 1988 episode online where the new Lily is flirting with Jack... Man I wish I could see the pilot--I used to have it saved from WOST but never got around to watching it and don't seem to have it anymore...

The late 80s till 91 or 92 were really a mess, from what I can tell. The city became too corporate and big, lost the campus and small town feel entirely, etc.

I'll have to check youtube--he DOES have the Marland look, for sure. WOST had at least one episode with Trisha and Steve--I liked them from it, I also liked her with psycho Jeff (though having her go off air with him out of the institution and her amnesiac was kinda as odd exit...) There was another episode with AVa and Paul when he was in a wheelchair, which was an interesting match I thought. Dinah Lee and Trucker actually... weren't bad. But it wasn't Trucker and Trisha.

HAHA poor Tony. How long was he on ATWT? I think he pretty much gave up on acting and is living in some small city as a carpenter or something random now... It woulda been great if they coulda ended up with him and Trisha reunited--but Noelle leaving the show hurt that a lot.

When I started watching I DID get him mixed up with Clay. I suppose seeing his children, he was a bit too young, but it never crossed my mind... And you're right about their cast... I dunno, I sorta think maybe nothing would have helped raise Loving's ratings (except doing as Agnes wanted and sandwiching it between her other shows). Because often it was very good--and it had a strong cast, but did lack stability in every sense of the word.

So randolph was the original Clay/Alex? I always thought he was second for some reason... I agree it's nice to see they tried with Loving. That last one seems almost like a huge advertisement BEGGING people to tune in (and to be fair to ABC, throughout the 90s, despite the damaging quick turnaround of EPs and HWs, it's obvious by who they hired, and what they've said, that ABC *was* trying to bring people to Loving. I mean compare the situation now where AMC has had the same crap EP for 8 or 9 years now, which is I think longer than anyone except when Agnes was EP in the 70s! The OLTL piece you posted from the same issue, about Gottlieb shows the same enthusiasm).

That's fantastic--and going to take me a while to print and read. I have to admit, while he exemplifies the kind of "soap stud" I often find embarassing and am not usually drawn to--as a yougn teen I *loved* Trucker. Not a great actor, but I found him beyond handsome and also an exceedingly likeable character (and Trisha/Trucker were prob the closest Loving got to a true super couple who would get SOD time, etc--even if Ava and Alex and others came close)

She was GREAT in the murder mystery--the revelation is of course one of the great female soap scenes I think--but I thinmk you're right. I haven't seen much from the 80s (only what's online) but could it have been when she returned after a year or two in 1991?

Oh I meant which actress--I think it's Roya Megnot as Ava, but can't quite tell (LOL I know, I know--) and was wondering if it could be the briefly used first Ava, Patty Lotz. Even with what Gwyn became, it's a testament to the actress that she was an immediate favorite of mine.

I don't think these Loving promos from 1984 have been posted here yet--I just found them, though they'd been up for a year. Which Ava is that in the first one? and one from 88 which seems to continue the Jack/Lily story from that 1987 episode that's online

Isn't it also that he liked using theatre talent that didn't always wanna stick around on a soap for very long?

Why specifically? I think I can guess, but am curious...

That's true, even if you do a lot to change a soap, it's different coming in with a foundation.

Loved reading the opinion piece at the end. It sounds like the show wasn't very well liked... Lack of plot sometimes was a problem of Lemay's I take it, but you'd think by then he would know how to structure a soap better? The implied lack of feeling for the characters doesn't sound like Lemay though... I find all this fascinating.

I believe that the four shows were Ma Perkins, Helen Trent, Young Dr Malone and Happiness... I have a book on radio serials I can check on the weekend.

I've mentioned that when I was a teen I was really into the old radio soaps--I listened to those 50 or so consecutive Guiding Light episodes, as well as some 30s ones and various others. Besides Guiding Light, the show I found the most interesting was definitely Right to Happiness--its spin off of course (though I believe Irna handed over the writing job quite early on). I think it was one of the bigger hits too, and of course ran till the bitter end of the radio soap era, I wonder why they never did try to transition it, as a companion to GL on TV or something. Carl I think 4 or so soaps all left the airwaves at the same time (in 1960?) Right was one of them, but I can't remember the others (Yougn Dr Malone? Road of Life? Which of course both did try out on TV but I believe with different storylines)