EricMontreal22

Trisha and Trucker were the only (arguable) supercouple the soap had though. LOL I loved them--I was kinda more iffy on Jeff when he returned post asylum and took off with an amnesiac Trish, but I didn't know his history at the time. Carl, thanks for the link, I hadn't seen those scenes before...

dc--as always your post is very welcome. I think Ann seems sympathetic in the Roger equation--in the movie they show her mad at him and his affair with a Countess... And then he pulls her aside and says he only always thought of her--and they have a love scene! Clip a few months later and he's putting the moves on Merrill, with some of the worst dialogue I have ever heard. I think part of the reason is he was a bad actor (glad they replaced him, though I haven't seen the replacement) That's where the pilot let me down (should I blame Marland and Mulcahey and their screenplay and not Nixon?) We see that Merrill worshipped him from a flashback and a book but I would have bought their awkward love scene in spade, if they had only shown us one scene of them being past lovers. Instead it kinda undermined Merrill's character that she would fall so hard when in the same room-though her scene where denies him are well done. Totally un-loved opinion but more and more I wonder if Loving would have done better with more Nixon and less Marland--the mix, oddly and interestingly, just didn't seem to mix.

Oh and Carl, forgot to say, no they didn't mention Naureen's AIDS research or even her job yet. I was thinking of the shocking number of recasts in the first year, but this actually seemed to be fairly common on soaps back in the day--Agnes Nixon has a bit of a rep for it--OLTL had a few, and AMC had a number of major recasts in the first few months. I suppose it's better, if you feel they're not working out, to do it sooner rather than later...

She's wonderful, but I adore her always. Whereas Bridges does well but plays it straight, Page is full on camp. I didn't see much of Meg (how long did she last?) but she did look too young. I loved her as Eugenia on AMC though--and woulda never put two and two together... Did they fire Cranston or did he leave on his own? Maybe when Meril was leaving they thought there was no use for him--but it seems odd (and odd they ditched both characters, frankly--ah if only we knew the behind the scenes stuff on early Loving). You're dead on about Ann's style, and Carl while I've seen very little of either Ann, I think I prefered her in the pilot (where I've seen much more of her). At least I did really like her (though it took a couple of scenes before I decided that). I find it odd if she was replaced and didn't leave on her own, but I guess weirder things have happened. Now I realize why I recognized Lorna, she certainly did improve as an actress. How long was she on?

ANd interestingly that Aug 30 summary you posted seems to pick up right where the movie ended--I guess it was the first month of summaries?

Kiberd was very early Trevor--they showed him having a thing/jealousy about his brother being a fancy professor (Doug, played by the excellent Bryan Kranston--sp) and a slight drinking prob but beign a good cop--no mention of his Vietnam backstory but obviously they're hinting at something (they mention the Donovon dad being in the hospital, I think he was killed offscreen?) And you see his wife Noreen briefly but more interacting with her sister, Merill. I loved Merill and DOug's loft sets, btw--very vintage 80s soap (and the location shooting at the college is beautiful though I guess not followed through with). I'll have to read the SOD summaries! Debbi Morgan plays someone with a connection to the prostitutes, when she talks to Merill she gets into Merill's car which goes off in a fire bomb (it's a little contrived why Merill, waiting for Doug to pick her up, has her car there and tells Debbi's character to go in it). I liked Ann very very much. She has an interesting slightly repressed or European air to her that's intriguing--in the way she talks even. And that gorgeous Alden Mansion set is there already. The ALdens we see are Cabot and Isabelle (who is played by an actress I had never seen in the role--Meg something?), and then Ann's family with Roger Forbes--Lorna and Jack who shows up mid way through, that's it. Oh Lloyd Bridges plays John Forbes--who had a past with Page's character who is now a secretary at the College (and SPOILER kills John at the end when it's discovered she helped facilitate the hooker ring--partly as revenge on Roger who she felt dropped her and her love to focus on his son, which is a little rushed, it might have been nice if they could have got Page and Bridges to stick around for the show's first month). Oh and Garth Slater is shown--he was acting President of Alden College for a year as an interim, but is unhappy because Cabot picks his son in law Roger to get the poistion, pushing Garth back to Dean. Page's character, Abigale, is his faithful secretary and it's hinted that Garth is the villain--and of course later we find out he is a creep with the incest story, but his wife and daughter aren't mentioned yet. I'm sure they were introduced that week or a week later. I do think that, while not amazing, the Lorna actress has improved immensely by that Feb 1984 online episode.

I just finished the pilot... First of all, I pity any poor non soap fan who rented or bought this "movie" based on Bridges and Page's names, or that ridiculous blurb on the back. (The pilot has NO love scenes, though some making out and waking up in bed after fading to black and NO incest ) And it feels like an early 80s soap, more outdoor scenes, but I expected it to have the feel of a film, or at least Dynasty, not something shot on tape with basic sets. That said I loved it fo course. The actors playing Lorna and Roger weren't very good, but everyone else was I thought, Page was campy and wonderful smoking away throughout, it did a good job of setting up the basic families and stories and rivalries and affairs, and I'm sure I would have tuned into the daily show after watching it--though the prostitution ring story for the "movie" was pretty obvious (despite a great brief cameo from Debbi Morgan before she's blown up [!]). It's interesting that it really sets up the main story as Merril Vocheck and her being torn between Roger Forbes and Doug Donovan, with Roger torn between Ann and Merill. But Merill, I get the feeling, was pretty quickly phased out of the show (which is a shame, she's well played and appealing even if she and Roger get some of the worst dialogue--she at least pulls it off despite Roger, who has a tiny couple of decent moments). Oh and we don't even see Stacy Dononvan, though we hear about her and meet the other Donovans and that kitchen set they show in the youtube 1984 episode. They briefly introduce the slightly comic seeming, man's man Billy Bristow, the new coach, and his wife Rita Mae who has a bit of Opal Gardner or someone to her--she already seems to come on to Jack. I knew I recognized Rita Mae--it's the brilliant Pamela Blair who originated Val "Tits and Ass" in A Chorus Line (as well as Angel in Best Little Whorehouse and a ton of Broadway dance roles). These two seem like typical over the top Agnes Nixon creations--and I see they lasted till 1985, but I wonder if they ever got any story, I had never heard of either before in any synopsises or clips I had seen, which seems a waste at least of a great actress. (Apparently Pamela was also on Another World and was on AMC in 1985 as Maeda, which she won an Emmy for? I have no knowledge of the character...) Interestingly, the whole thing reminded me of an 80s Peyton Place. Not as instantly compelling or well acted perhaps, but the music (which was often lovely, I wonder if the show kept the themes for long) and just something about the feel. While watching I had a friend who was sleeping in the same room, and he woke up for the second half and asked afterwards if that was a later Peyton Place, and he's only seen a handful of PP episodes when I've watched--so there must be some odd similarity. Anyway a lot of fun, and makes me wish I could see the early weeks of Loving all the more--ut yeah pretty shockingly scandalous that someone thought to try to sell it off as an actual "thrilling" movie.

Thanks to the heads up from you guys, today I actually looked through the videos an old family run DVD rental place I walk by was getting rid of (yes, they apparently rented VHS until just the other week) and... Found the Loving pilot! Not in the best shape, but watchable. I'll post my thoughts I'm sure after I watch it tomorrow. The box is quite funny--it mentions from the creator of AMC and OLTL several times (though it says on the back "Story by Agnes Nixon, Teleplay by Douglas Marland and Patrick Mulcahey"). It also proudly brags that it's by the director, Michael Lindsay Hogg who did Brideshead Revisited which is a random fact I knew but had totally forgotten. The video is copyrighted 1983 dramatic Creations, so much have come out early in the show's run and the back description is kinda funny. The first paragraph reads: The movie stat started it all~! The romance, anger, greed and power. The movie that captivated millions with its mesmerising story and shocking love scenes. More powerful than DALLAS, more incestuous than DYNASTY! Then the final line is: The Forbes. The Aldens. Their dynasties will CONSUME you. LOL I don't honestly expect any of that, but I'm excited to see it.

Two fo my friends say Sealed with a Kiss sounds like a Kylie track. Not sure I hear it though... As for Britney's bonus tracks, this has been her curse for a while. Remember the UK track Before the goodbye done with Bt? much better than much of her third album. Or from Circus the Gaga penned Quicksand--ace tune.

I have had a few Britney friends who complained of dubstep. Which makes me feel older than my birthday did...

This is shameful, but I kinda love Nicole Scherzingflopper's new album Killer Love. UK only release, nearly all RedOne--it's fun, she sounds great, and I wonder if Simon is waiting to release it in the US when she becomes an XFacotr Judge? (Poison, the lead, RedOneRipsOffToxicButItsFun single from this album was a top 3 there). She's still completely personality-less, but does fun club/dance and midtempo, and has a decent voice for good producers (RedOne Dave Aude and respectively)

I do kinda like it--as I do most things you like. It just it kinda on *this* side of insincere--if an ex sang it to you would you not role your eyes? Her only good song from her Born Again album. Stay away

I had a party for my birthday on the weekend (lol) and despite my best efforts, people kept putting on this CD whenever I seemed to leave the room or be in a conversation.

She'll def still be in the public eye for a while yet. But, yeah...

Again I'm not the one to ask--I never bought the Britney/Madonna comparison for instance. I think it's her moving into the orbit she'll exist in--hardcore fans, gay clubbers, etc. I think the material's solid--the problem is she can't perform it anymore--even in her recent video there's a dance break with edits every 15 seconds, and she just doesn't seem to be going for it--and dance was always her strongpoint. But I mean--who do you see as relevent music wise now to compare it with?

It sure has... I don't mind it. It's kinda Blackout II which IMHO was a smart move -- decent production (mostly anyway--will.I.am is the worst), impersonal songs, dance beats. I actually thought Circus made a mistake by throwing in the "personal" component (not to mention ballads). Keep in mind that I've never been a huge fan (and seeing her Circus tour--even at no cost--really kinda offended me just cuz she didn't even seem to be trying to dance anymore, no one expected her to sing)--but it's a fun record to put on when you're drinking with friends (is that a recommendation?)

I admit those are all good points...

I think she's great, and it's a solid album. I'm not sure I think it's much better than 19, and I know it's stupid, but I find it kinda annoying how big she's now become in the US when that album seemed to be ignored there. And I find the album kinda samey--by the end I start to get tired of it, and I'd love to hear her do some different stuff (no, I don't mean by that Kylie pop )

Ha ha and he's shirtless from the start! I do think the last 6 months of City were really strong and they had found their footing, their pacing (even ifsome characters like Tony Soleito were beyond annoying they managed to balance it out). I also think it would have worked better as a lkate night soap--I know several ABC affiliates claimed to be getting better numbers showing it after Nightline or whatever. At the time it was also the only ABC soap that was slowly (ok, very slowly) improving in the ratings, when AMC, GH and especially OLTL were starting to slip--but it had already been essentially canceled. I dunno, but I wish she would... But yeah the fact that there was zero AMC crossover whatsoever was pretty lame. I did like her on Loving (and especially City where her and Jacob helped cement the other characters), and it was about time the show got a Black presence (I know of course that Agnes wanted to bring Carla/Ellen Holly and I believe her mother too from OLTL over to Loving but Ellen saw that as kinda a diss). And that's a great interview. I know HW and EPs are notorious for saying what we want to hear and not acting on it, but they did seem to have a clear idea what was missing--and you can see they were starting to fix that with Racy and other characters.

Ceara ran away to Corinth due to a fight with Jeremy--I believe she went to stay at Kate's boarding house. This was Fall 1991 (nov maybe?) and Jeremy went back to get her--Kate and Ally and others helped set them back together, I know WOST had one episode of Loviong from this era where they're locked in together in Kate's garage or tool shed or something. I had JUST started watching AMC around this time, and tuned into Loving for the cross over but still at the time wasn't too familiar with AMC's characters, and didn't get hooked permanently on Loving till the following Summer's Carter story. Off the top of my head, and briefly, Carter came to AMC terrorizing the new DA Galen (who was never really a fleshed out character though I think she was played by two different actresses--I remember one of the first times I heard an announcement in a soap about a recast, it was for her)--who had been his wife I believe. Trevor started helping Galen out with Carter, and in retribution Carter set fire to Trevor's house--which caused Natalie (soon to be NuNatalie with the rather dull Melody Anderson) to go blind. Carter felt guilty and (this is where my memory gets hazy) befriended a blind Natalie who couldn't recognize him, passing himself off as her nurse where he fell in love/obsessed with her. He eventually had her kidnapped to a houseboat. Meanwhile Hannaha nd Dinah Lee from Loving came to AMC to stay at Myrtle's boarding house--she was an old friend, and it turned out that Carter was from DInah Lee's past as well (I think--maybe it was Hannah's...) Anyway this all led up to a week long cross over on Loving where Carter ended up being chased to Corinth--I believe he tries to attack Dinah Lee in Pins and Jeremy and Trevor come in the nick of time. There was also a cute scene where Trevor meets Shana (his wife in real life) and they mention feeling sorry for anyone who marries them. WOST did post one episode at the end of the story--I wonder if I saved it? Anyway, Jeremy decides to stay in Corinth... And yes some Loving characters made cameos at that Spring 1992 wedding--later on on Loving, Myrtle showed up at Dinah lee's wedding I think )It was held at the Alden mansion). What I *never* got is when Angie from AMC moved to Loving, they never introuced her briefly first back on AMC to give fans of that show an idea she was back before moving her to Loving. Just seemed oddly done.

Ha let it be said that I loved the Dante Partou story with Curtis his little "pet" in the cage--Agnes at her Gotchic wackiest. You're right about the Heaven stuff, I was exagerating. I believe there was another threat to a character mentioned in heaven which again came to nothing... Don't remember Tess and Jeremy being paired... I mainly remember him briefly with Stacey, the Ava on the run story, the Hannah sexual harrassment story and Gilbert, his twin.

I liked Jocelyn and her incest storyline a lot--partly as she was never really played as the victim, yet, as you say, wasn't annoying either... The Azure and racism story I think were wen City was trying (as Gottlieb's OLTL recently had) with sorta shocking short term storylines. It was a mistake (as was doing a sub par retread oif the Loving Murders so soon) but the show found its footing about 6-8 months in.

SHana was an illegitimate Alden, though she was absorbed into the clan but always kinda an outsider. I think Stacy was kinda in a flux after Jack. The story with Clay making her think she saw his ghost (with, from what my 11 year old mind can remember--hologram projectors lol) was pretty far fetched (though not as far fetched as Ava doing a low budget version of Vicki's trip to Heaven or the infamous devil storyline). Still, I was sad to see the only original cast member--who had never really been too central but always a likeable presence--go in the murders. But I guess they did that partly to show they meant business. Jeremy IMHO never fit with anyone at Loving. The long trek with Ava where they ran from that GH villain (?) had cute/funny moments and went nowhere. I liked the character, and was glad they brought him over from AMC in a way, but except for Hannah crushing on him, he never had much of a use, and the evil twin story was not particularly well done. Angie, for example, fit in on the show much more immediately. I was shocked Ava wasn't going to The City (though Alex had many conversations with her off camera). For the most part, with the distance of time, I can say that I think they brought the right people to The City, but it probably would have brought more Loving viewers over if they had brought in a few core/older members. Then again, City's ratings were virtually the same as Loving's, so maybe at that point it didn't matter at all?

A pretty standard Agnes Nixon plot--I didn't realize it happened during her return as HW, but it makes sense.

Cranston seems solid in the 1984 online ep... Thanks SFK, I had heard it was commercially released. Maybe I'll order it... Wow--amazon still has copies in stock they claim!