vetsoapfan

Considering I'm more likely to binge on vintage series more than anything modern, his channel is just my up of tea.

@SoapDope, thank you so much for sharing this this link. I never would have even heard of it, let alone been able to watch and enjoy it, without your heads-up. This interviewer is much better than other hosts I've seen, and through perusing his channel, I see he's done many interviews with actors of yesteryear, whom I remember and would like to hear more about. I'm going to have fun with his celebrity talks. Gracias!

Thanks for the notification, @NothinButAttitude. This fascinating, if disheartening. No tacky, unfair or boorish behavior from TPTB surprises me anymore.

The show was drowning in missed opportunities and incoherent decisions for a long time. I won't say that none of TPTB in the last 15 years of TGL's existence cared about it; maybe some of them did. Unfortunately, wanting to do a good job does not equate to actually being able to do so. Having the talent, the perception, and a solid understanding of the soap genre were not in evidence among the show-runners, and that was painfully obvious on screen. Yes, little bits and pieces here and there worked, but it was all too little, too late. The irrational obsession with The Santos mob, San Cristocrap, Buzzard, and Reva's endless sci-fi/fantasy drivel had soiled Springfield through various regimes, and Wheeler didn't make sufficient changes to rebuild the show effectively. And ITA: the miniscule budget was not her fault. The resulting cheap and tacky look of TGL, thanks to the dearth of funds, was not her fault. But the often wretched material we witnessed during her tenure was at least her responsibility.

Yep. The nails began being driven into the show during the 1980s, and continued being being driven in by many subsequent PTB for the rest of the show's life (with brief respites under Calhoun, Curlee and even Taggart to a degree). There were many culprits, alas. Wheeler would not have been responsible for forcing Peapack onto the show (I'm sure that that mandate came from the higher ups), but didn't Ross Marler get killed off under her watch? That decision alone inspires significant ire. There were so many other weak and/or pointless characters on the canvas at that point, who could have been let go first. Jerry ver Dorn should have been held onto at all cost.

Yes, there are a lot more videos of the final years online, than the glory years, although that's perfectly understandable. Not everyone had VCRs way back when. Plus, blank tapes were expensive, so archiving episodes from the 1970s and early 1980s was not affordable for all viewers. In any case, I am so grateful for all the treasures that are in circulation: the massive number of radio broadcasts from 1950 dealing with Meta's murder trial, the string of kinescopes from 1966 dealing with Bert's troubled marriage to Bill, Holly's marital rape, Rita in the funhouse, Maureen's death, etc. As a die-hard fan, I always more more, of course, but I know we are lucky to have what we do have. This goes for the surviving material from all our favorite shows.

My first choice of a family to be represented on TGL would be the Bauers, for sure, but I'd have no problem with the Reardons and other clans being featured as well. I'd bet my retirement savings that more viewers would have preferred to see Bea return following Bert's death (or Meta, which did happen a decade later) than to be force-fed Miss Sally and Sarah, even more characters who orbited around the show-eater Reva.

Yes, and all things considered, it's such a shame that so few episodes of those years are available, while a huge number of the nadir years of TGL are floating around. We are lucky to have a lot of classic radio material and videos from the 1950s and 1960s, however.

Before the internet became a major presence in everyday life, a guy whom I "met" via trading circles (I had seen his classified WANT/HAVE ads in the back of TV magazines) told me that he had a plethora of TGL eps from 1976-77 on videotape, which he had recorded and saved for his late mom. I was very interested until he said he wanted a huge sum of money for them. I don't recall exactly the price, since it's been 47-ish years, but it was an outrageous demand that almost made me choke. I want to say $2000.00. I asked him to make me a short "sample" tape, with brief clips of some different episodes, so I could judge the quality (I was dubious these tapes even existed, and wanted proof). He gave me a flat NO, even though I offered to pay him in advance for the sample cassette. He then disappeared, which confirmed my suspicion that his story was BS and he was a con artist. But I really wanted to see those episodes again!

Long-time producer Lucy Ferri Rittenberg helmed TGL from 1952 to 1976, and I felt she understood the show, kept it consistent, and did a great job. The capable team of Robert Soderberg and Edith Sommer wrote the show from 1969 to 1973, and they also did well, IMHO. The only time I felt the show was moribund was under the sudden revolving-door of writers who worked on TGL during the two years between Soderberg/Sommer and the Dobsons. Fortunately, none of them lasted very long (James Lipton was the worst, UGH), and once the Dobsons came aboard, the writing improved. (The problem now was the influx of so many newbies.) Cassie and Richard. Manny. Boooooooring.

I do believe the 1950s and 1960s were the halcyon years for TGL. For several years in the 1970s, the show hovered in the middle of the pack, but IMHO, most of the shows were ON FIRE and providing us with top-notch drama during that decade. With such formidable competition airing around the dial, even soaps which impressed me with their excellence struggled. I've always said 1976 was one of DAYS' very best years, but it could only manage to come in at 7th place that year. I would not have been opposed to Holly pursuing a relationship with another woman, as long as it was handled maturely and honestly, and didn't get axed at the first sign of reactionary fan grumbling. For a long time, aggressive "stans" of certain couples and plots have campaigned and fought very vocally to have romantic couplings and storylines align with their personal, preferred dictates. TPTB should never listen to them. Writers should be given reign to pursue their own creative visions for the shows. Organized, politicized fanbases are often...nuts.

Me too. I was hoping against hope that the show's numbers would rebound once we had an experienced and erudite producer at the helm, along with sensitive, adult writing. I believe that soap fans are a hardy bunch, who will stick with our favorite shows even through long periods of poor writing and management decisions. We keep wishing, demanding, and/or expecting things to improve. Once we finally give up and accept that TIIC are not going anywhere, that our shows are probably never going to see a creative resurgence, we become disengaged and drift away from the programs we used to love. After we're gone, it's difficult to get us back. Once burned, twice shy, as the old adage goes. Folks point to General Hospital, under Gloria Monty and Douglas Marland/Pat Falken Smith, as evidence that even a soap which has languished in the toilet for years can have a miraculous recovery. But I feel that's the rare exception rather than the rule. Once TGL alienated and lost such a huge segment of its audience, I guess it was foolish of me to keep hope for its recovery alive...for 25 years, LOL.

Okay, I understand your point. I was mollified and touched by some of the returns as well. I could also quibble (and heaven knows, I do), but suggestions like Ed and Holly possibly rekindling something between them in the end was sweet. I was around and watching during the heyday of the 15-minute soaps, and I was thrilled when they all expanded to 30-minutes. That was my favorite format. When soaps later expanded to an hour (and AW even tried that ridiculous 90 minute experiment), I had qualms about the quality deteriorating. Admittedly, at first some shows fared better than others at 60 minutes, but the pace was punishing, and it was hard not to expect the quality to suffer. I think I was more upset at TGL's cancellation than AW's, because I could still dream up ways of reinvigorating Springfield. To me, AW was dead beyond repair. I agree that Wheeler was not solely responsible for TGL's fate. It was a goner, we all saw the writing on the wall. It would have gotten axed even with brilliant minds writing and producing it. Heck, AMC met the Grim Reaper on ABC, even with Agnes Nixon and Lorraine Broderick at the writing helm. Also, I will NEVER count Passions as a real soap, ROTF!🤢 There was an online continuation of AW too, after it left the airwaves. I glanced at both that and the TGL bit on Twitter, but have never really gravitated towards fan fiction. This is tragic; 57 is still so young. May she RIP.

Expanding the soaps to an hour per episode ended up being a detriment to the genre. The "filler" permeating most shows was disappointing, and the tight cohesion that most soaps had offered slackened. Previous writers really did lack foresight by not developing the Bauers more through birth. Killing off Chuckie, and even Kathy and Robin (related to Meta via marriage) didn't help. In the 1980s, however, TGL still had the potential to feature Mike, Hope, Alan-Michael, Ed, Rick, Michelle, Maureen, Hillary and a potentially returned-and-reformed Bill Bauer. Trudy and her descendants could have popped up. Meta could have (and should have) returned when Bert died, rather than 10 years later. Eleven or twelve Bauers on the canvas would have plenty, IMHO. Heck, even Mike, Hope, A-M, Ed (Mart Hulswit, please), Rick, Michelle, Maureen, Hillary and either Meta or Trudy would have more than satisfied me. Instead, TPTB in the 1980s slaughtered the family, and no one who replaced them in subsequent years ever repaired the damage by reintroducing past Bauer favorites. Although we were left with a faux Ed, an annoying/mugging Rick, and a poorly cast Michelle in the show's final years, I am pleased about the Bauers' lingering presence, even if it felt nominal by the end. And, actually, I agree with you about AW. It was shocking that it lasted as long as it did. ITA. Kelly could have also worked as Trudy's grandson. TGL did well in the 1950s. 1951/52 ratings: 9.4 (4th place) 1952/3 ratings: 11.3 (4th place) 1953/54 ratings: 14.2 (2nd place) 1954/55: 14.6 (2nd place) 1955/56: 13.0 (2nd place) 1956/57: 11.4 (First place, woohoo!) 1957/58: 10.1 (First place again) 1958/59: 9.7 (3rd place; ATWT was #1) 1959/60: 9.6 (2nd place) From 1960 to 1968, TGL held either the second or third-place position. Then, in 1968-69, it tumbled down to the 9th place in the ratings with 8.9 In the 1970s, TGL was usually in the middle of the ratings pack until 1976/77, when it jumped back up to third place. The show remained stable in the upper range of the charts until the mid-1980s...and the rest is history, alas. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_daytime_soap_opera_ratings

When its principle competition, General Hospital, was a media sensation and getting monster ratings, TGL actually did pretty well. RATINGS PRE- AND POST GAIL KOBE & HER SCRIBES 1979/80 Ratings: 8.3 (TGL) 1981/82: 8.3 1981/82: 8.0 1982/83: 7.4 1983/84: 8.1 1984/85: 7.5 1985/86: 6.8 1986/87: 6.3 In the early 1980s, after Douglas Marland and then Pat Falken Smith departed General Hospital, that show lost its luster and started drifting down in the ratings. Ironically, even with weakened competition, TGL's ratings started taking a hit, too. From 1983 to 1986, with Gail Kobe as producer and Pamela Long, Richard Culliton and Jeff Ryder as writers, our show went from 8.1 to 6.8 to 6.3. After Kobe mercifully left in 1987, Long returned, but the rating remained low: 6.2. It's true that in 1983/84, TGL went from 7.4 (in 1982/83) to 8.1, but then dropped even lower, to 6.8 and later, 6.3. When TGL was facing its stiffest competition from GH (1979-82), it was well-written and produced, and enjoyed healthy ratings. After the change in producers and writers, however, the show lost a shocking two points by the end of the Kobe/Long/Culliton/Ryder era in 1987. It's accurate to say that the characters and concepts foisted on the show in the Kobe, etc., period remained front and center until TGL finally got cancelled, but was that a good thing? Kobe first gutted the soap of most of its pre-1983 history, and then subsequent PTB continued to focus on certain character types and themes that the overall audience seemed not to enjoy. The ratings' continued decline clearly indicated over the next few decades that something was not working. In my honest opinion, the fact that this once-popular soap was finally laid to rest with ratings of 1.6 in 2009 attests to the fact that Kobe's concept of the show ultimately decimated it and started its serious blood-letting. It never really recovered from the 1980s' debacles. (This is not to say that future writers and producers were innocent of inflicting additional damage. There are plenty of guilty players.)

I'm curious: what about TGL's last did did you appreciate? (No snark intended, BTW. I found a few elements in the final days of certain shows, which made me briefly feel like they were "my soaps" again. It made me appreciate sticking around to the bitter end.)

Yes, in my personal opinion, that is correct. 1983 wasn't as bad as subsequent years, but serious cracks were really beginning to show, and decisions made by TPTB did not bode well for anything be repaired. In 1984, the situation got drastically worse (again, IMHO) By 1985, TGL had largely been decimated. To me, it was like a corpse being dragged behind an exhausted, blind mule. (Okay, so I am exaggerating and being sarcastic, I admit. Sorry! Being a crusty curmudgeon is ingrained in my DNA. That being said, I do believe the show was on life support in its final years.)

While I personally found the show unwatchable for much of the 1980s, I didn't believe TGL was in serious danger of cancellation until the 1990s. From decades past, I knew that various long-running soaps had experienced both plunges and surges in the ratings, but as the years went by and TGL continued to dwell in the toilet, I realized it was living on borrowed time. It got to the point where I almost wanted cancellation to come, to put the old war horse out of its misery.

Oh, Duh! Of course! I completely zoned out about the change of locals, and was only thinking about the major events in TGL's overall history, which would have garnered attention in the newspapers. In this instance, it would make sense that the news stories would be restricted to Springfield residents. Thanks for the correction.

I'd say 1984-1988 were the nadir years of the 1980s. (Everything after 1993 sucked big time, too, IMHO. I was furious how poorly-handled and empty the tribute was. Meta Bauer's murder trial should have been included among the headlines.

May Terry/Danfling rest well. It's always sad to hear about a life ending before its time. I appreciate your letting us know, @slick jones.

I would have accepted a time lapse like that; one being mentioned and acknowledged.

The "youth mandate" hurt TEON (and most soaps, IMHO). Since the very beginning of the genre, fans of all ages have made it clear that they love soap characters of all ages. I have never understood how TPTB can be unaware or (just as possibly) indifferent to this fact. Replacing Maeve McGuire with Jayne Bentzen was a serious blunder. Not only was she a whopping 18 years younger that McGuire, she was a painfully wooden performer. Rona Barrett's Daytimers magazine posted a comment: "Although well liked by her cast-mates, most feel she should have remained a model." Ouch. Nicole never again attained the immense popularity the character has garnered under McGuire. It was like replacing Jacquie Courtney on AW with some of the dreadful actresses who somehow ended up in the role of Alice. Lisa Sloan was a better thespian that Bentzen, fortunately, but neither Bentzen nor Sloan ever felt like the "real" Nicole to me. Getting rid of Mandel Kramer as Bill Marceau was another slap in the face, but at least the character of Bill was hitting a believable age to retire from the police force. As you pointed out, some of the "model hunks" hired by the show simply weren't well cast. I personally found Derek Mallory to be...icky and completely unappealing, but the majority of the performers hired over the years I watched the series were quite good. The original leading man, Mike Karr, was recast twice, and the show really lucked out there. All three of the actors chosen for the role were fine.

Ah, yes, those gray "wings" the show used to stick on Ellen Demming's hair to make Meta look older. Hilarious. I did not realize Meta's pregnancy only lasted two months. Soaps are notorious for pregnancies lasting...forever! A shortened pregnancy like that would have vexed me at the time, for being absurdly unrealistic. Of course, I am used to kids being SORASed after they're born, although some shows handle the leaps in ages better than others. Curiously, their peculiar idiosyncrasies end up making our shows all the more charming, LOL!

I somehow missed your tagging me in the ATWT ep, @DRW50. Thank you, as always. I'd miss so much without kind folks tagging me!