Mitch64

Excuses me??? You didn't find Lujacks video with the Infinity Rings shoot up exciting? I mean, nothing could have made Kurt exciting, except if he was in my bed naked...(hey I was in college, we were the same age..) Oh, that made me think of Billy's trial, when they pulled out the Infinity video and Billy jumped like a dog to shoot Kyle and Malloy's...acting...as he flared his nostrils and screamed.."Love me brother" had all of us howling in the Student Lounge... I never like Josh after the Clone..it was creepy, sick and pervey, and a good excuse for Reva to leave his ass and hook up with hunky, gay island muscle boy. I never understood how anyone could have thought otherwise of that freak show..that made Roger and Alan look like princes. Vigard always looked like an underage, underfed boy to me..which grossed me out on Kelly (who come on, who didn't know JWS was gay back then..) I remember their love scene in the stream with steroid muscles over he skinny frame and her teeth were chattering and I just felt sorry for her.

Not to incite a certain poster with my thoughts but..Mac was gross to me( he looked like he reeked of ciggies) and Nancy was so classy. I know Marland said he wanted to show that romance continued on in older people but...I think Nancy written as Nancy should be (not the sweet grandmother Marland turned her into) would not want another man around, or would make his life hell with her demanding nature. At least show them adjusting to each other, Nancy having to deal that gross Mac is not Chris, and Mac knowing that Nancy is not Bernice...(because of course Mac would be married to a Bernice.) I think the best tentpole was Bert..she didn't seem to ever want to get married (and after Bill could you blame her) and she had a full and interesting life, apart from supporting her family. The writers always made sure she had a job (as a volunteer and later as head of the Patient Advocates) and friends of her own. Which made that scene in the Bauer kitchen, where drops a dish and can't pick it up and feel helpless) even more impactful. I know its part of the genre, but I wish soaps could show more people being happy single, or even just dating and not being single mindedly focused on Grand Love and marriage...soap characters would be exhausting to be friends with!

Well, it's not officially in the midwest but a lot of people I know from there consider themselves midwest...(maybe north?) But its..transitional and I agree, not from Alabama.. I come from Central Illinois and many people still speak with a twang, still left over from the migration from Kentucky, etc.

Jane..that was her name! I loved Jane. I know this was written about before but I can't believe the tone deafness on the network, writers, producers AND the viewers that YR had a black maid named Mamie!!!!! I may be dreaming this, but I think Long wrote a scene where Vera condemned Roger and Alex's tower plans as displacing people she knew (i.e. POC) if so good, and a good op for drama for Vera to quit after she tells Peanut out and that wakes Alex up. Though I will always love Vera for that scene where she is serving coffee or something and leaning over shoves her butt in Blake's face! God the show could be so good back then! I wish they brought Evans back to GL when Hearst left. I could see him channeling his inner Bauer especially since Simon left at that time and they could have recast Mike. I wish that they had Loyd, and whatever the butlers name was, who were at cross purposes at times carrying out their bosses schemes against each other...would have fallen in love and ran off together. Alan would huff and puff and JoanAlex would say, "Really Alan, did you think they spent ALL their time spying for us? Let's throw those boys a nice party at the Towers and start collecting resumes for lackeys!"

I loved Levy and found him oddly sexy, I hated they got rid of him to give DuhFrank the job...if there was every someone who would not be the Chief of Police it would be Frank Cooper. Vera I liked but she was problematic (the "Mammy Maid" thing.) I actually liked Alex's first "secretary" I forget her name but she was Nola's nanny I think and Alex hired her. I never understood why they wrote her off. Wanda I liked but that twang she had..Oklahoma is midwestern not southern and GL never understood that. I hated her writing but Megan McTavish as the Lola Fontaine was good, she was whore that somehow befriended Amanda ....maybe that is where the Malibu Madame came from...) and then Tony gave her a job at Company and she became part of the family before disappearing (when McTavish started writing for the show I would presume.) I loved Leo...someoen to do Roger's bidding. I loved when Taggert was writing and both Alex and Alan had their loyal henchmen. JoanAlex had the Indian guy and Alan had a butler, who if remember was pretty cute.

And next year (granted it was during a writers strike) we had no picnic, no mention of one, we have Barbara coming into the penthouse from shopping (who goes shopping for anything more then Booze and food on the 4th) and finding Rick there. No mention of the family besides "Does Bob Hughes know you are back?" (why would she use his last name like they are slightly connected?) Not an improvement. I would say the Hughes family had become really upper middle class if that by that time..Chris owned a law firm (which seemed to be the only one in town) Bob was a doctor...but yea, they held firm to their middle class "bearing" but in town like Oakdale they would be near the top.

Thanks! I think soaps never really showed their elderly characters gradually failing...if they were they were shipped off camera. Sure they dealt with Bert's surgery, but she was still a firecracker and on it (and only 62 so hardly elderly) The way the show treated Don was really heartwarming and brought a sense of reality to a show ( I wish they had done a bit more and had Andy remark "Grand dad seemed out of it this morning" and have Bob talk about aging being natural and not scary...) I know they did tried to do that with that gross guy they married Nancy off with.. but it just seemed to be one of Marland's depressing "relevant" storylines and not natural or organic like Don's was. I still get tears in my eyes when the Bob gives his toast to his parents on the anniversary and Hastings tears up...and so does McLaughlin (while Wagner's Nancy is stoically calm..lol.) That is the kind of stuff that "binds" you to a show.

ATWT was in pretty good shape when they took over...really in term of the core being in place. Yes, they needed to offload some of the cast..half of them were middle aged lawyers I couldn't tell one from the other. And while I think Tom Tammi is hot...he did play Tom as almost a middle aged uptight guy..I can see why they wanted to reinvent Tom a bit. It was the warmed over stories that they used and how they started off integrating the new characters with the old (Nick with Kim, Lyla with Bob etc) its like they ran out of interest. What did Nancy think of Lyla and her two rebellious daughters who would be part of the family soon..we don't know...did Lyla have many scenes with Nancy and Chris? The set up to Margo having an affair with Bob's stepdaughters husband was good, but Bob was quickly taken out of that mix. Agreed that ATWT was cold compared to GL (while I always loved GL, messy as it was better) but they really distanced everyone from each other. Wagner said that as soon as Don was taken off contract he started to fail...I remember him having scenes after she left and he was fine...also, look how well the show did when they brought him back..he had few scenes and lines, but he was there and he was respected and the way the cast looked protective over him (implied that the characters knew he was failing ) added texture warmth and reality to the show.

I always liked that about GL..they had people deal with issues just like they do in the real world, without a therapist showing up to spout about "there are 1.5 million teen pregnancies a year, most of them in people below the poverty level, leading to childhood malnourishment" such as Marland would stop a show to do...Info would come up, but it would seem more like real people focusing on their problem then a "social issue."

I agree that Zaz's illness (well really his firing) through a wrench in part of the Meg story, they wrote that really great scene where after Holly and Fletcher argue over the Ross/Blake twin's thing, and Holly says "Roger is right in this, family comes first, even over honesty," and then Holly overhear's Roger having a moment with Meg talking about being different. I think the intention was for Roger to bond with Meg leading Holly to break her walls down (she always thought she was a terrible mother and having a special needs kid really pushed her neurosis over) Roj NOT Fletch, which would piss off our sanctimonious bore to no end...and then have Holly and Roger take sides with Blake, would have been a good story that they were headed to (I just couldn't take the Roger and Holly are TWU luv thing...) I think that is why I think Ed was better for Holly, she gets screwed up guys...and Fletch was just too shallow to be screwed up in the way Holly is attracted to. The Abby transplant thing got short shift because it was the Bauers...Rauch didn't know how to do a "real" story, and remember, this was the summer of San Christobel and RESCUE REVA that he and TPTB thought would skyrocket the show to the top...remember Kimmer in her usual b.s. touting her storyline (until it collapsed) that said viewers wanted "Calgone take me away" fantasy..(not if your in the tub Reva thanks!) There was no room..that was the summer there was no Bauer BBQ..the boards were lit up over both those things at the time.

Well, this was a misguided story from the start, developed by an earlier lamented group (McLaibey) and did not fit the character of Holly...However she existed and it would have been good to bring her back for visits played by an older actress. I wanted Ed and Holly reunited before the last episode...two supremely damaged people who somehow work, and could form a basis for a different king of core couple ( I can't see Holly sitting around the Bauer kitchen listening to peoples bullshit problem without rolling her eyes.) and I can see Ed talking her into forming a relationship with her. Maybe Fletch marries another woman who really is better for whatever her name was. The problem is when you introduce a clone the whole concept of reality goes out the window (Michael can grow a fetus but did not put research into some real developmental issue?) And yes Sean had a great chest and he was good with Dinah, but he came off as Reva and Dinah's gay muscle boy bestie..I never bought the dead wife story Sean..sorry!

Agreed...I really liked their GL (what I could remember of it) and kept the traditions there that Long kind of got rid of (the Christmas Eve kids party at Cedars..Mike singing there..the Bauers as the center...) but really ignored the Hughes (to be fair, they really used the Stewarts..) I don't take the argument that it was TPTB totally, as good old Bridget didn't let anyone strong arm her. Maybe Nancy was a hard matriarch to write for after the warm Bert? Maybe a long time married core couple was hard for them? I think they didn't want to write for ATWT and didn't care until the second time around, which was better. It was so cool to see Hastings on the Locher show, as soon as he had the Bob smile it was like, "Everything is okay." just like watching the show. I actually loved Dolan's personality and which they had infused some of that humor is her dour Margo...Hillary looks GREAT but she is my fave Margo...Marx's voice is sex on a stick still...and Zenk looks ageless as always. I didn't notice any tension between Zenk and Smith but probably years have gone by enough ( though when Zenk mentioned Fulton supporting her through problems and men, Smith had a knowing smirk...) I liked that Smith I think said that the shows family feeling behind the scenes was a great experience. I do love that Smith, or was it Dolan said that Wagner and Fulton kind of had some pushing up against each other (no wonder Wagner was always so good with those "Now Lisa DEAR! " admonitions!) From all reports Wagner was a bit "Nancyish" and Fulton seemed to share Lisa's impish sense of humor so I can see it, I wish they had followed up on it.

They aren't..these were from November and we had Dee's murder trail etc. These were actually good stories but again, they ripped out the core and it just didn't have that ATWT feeling (poor DM was put on recurring at this time and then he just disappeared before Tom and Margos wedding and when Marland brought him back) Fulton leaves in the spring, and she is gone for over a year I think,

Lisa in her annoying fluttery jittery phase...between her and Meg Ryan's Betsy.... Poor Chris..just..standing there like an extra that no one interacts with.

I think it was Sheri Anderson who brought in Sarah...that was during the bad corporate espionage thing of Lewis Oil and Josh was hiding a pregnant Reva and brought Sarah in...my question...did Long or any of the writers ever mention Sarah...I thought she would be a trashy battle axe but they made her seem like a sweet country mother...why had she not spoken to her kids? But yea, all we needed was another family member of Reva...(it would have been funny if Sarah was an old battle axe who gave Reva hell."My daughter is a slut, sure..damn where are my ciggies????"

Ha...Dr. Bob can still get it! Were is Ole Suzie Q???? Yes..but who knows.. I do remember an interview when Colleen said Colin was "her" Margo but..and rumors were that Colleen's affair with the Brian actor was causing drama, with Wagner even telling her to calm it down, but...Everywhere Hillary goes there seems to be trouble, but she always seems so "nice" on screen

I think they totally missed out on some really good tension by having Fletcher and Claire together during this time..Fletch would kind of be the middleman and have the push pull between the Bauers and Claire..who didn't need to be a psycho..but an edgy woman who always felt left out (and who is her own worst enemy.) They had time to turn this around as I am watching the Bert memorial..where Claire is being a bit softer...but they could have used Bert's death to really reset the show...maybe recast Ed with MH, bring back Mike for the episodes and reintroduce a recast Hope in anticipation of Alan's return.. (I see the good old soap trope of a flash of a mysterious hand holding the SF Journal with Bert's obituary..the cuffs say AS, and on to commercial) I would have used that time to bring back Meta as we mentioned, and who actually feels a connection to Claire as the black sheep..giving another perspective then Claire the weird high strung baby mama. She would both put a good work in for Claire and kick her ass when needed, which would bother Mo. A really good family storyline with no villains was screwed to make Claire a convenient nut job (I am suprised she didn't kidnap Chelle but I am sure Ryder was planning that...) I think the Bert/H.B. thing was planned from the get go but then Charita got sick...so Long changed course... Well, Zimmer would have a freaking fit is she wasnt paired up...but you are right..I liked Reva the most when she was kind of on her own, when Josh left, Kyle was married to Maeve and she bought a house, worked, was involved with other people then a grand romance (the Cain stuff didnt really count, she was helping him as he saved her.)

God I would have so love for Brent to off Buzz...I would have had him gag him and tie him up first so we don't hear the caterwauling or arms flapping Deas would do. Plus it would have made more sense to have everyone think Buzz left to town and his family as usual. But I still think putting Deenie with Ed would have been good. Maybe Jean could have cheered up old sourpuss Simon up! I can imagine Van, Holly, Bridget, and Nola all giving that the sideeye. I can't decide if Nadine and Nola would be co conspirators or hate each other .

It had to be Claire. They had spent time putting Hillary and Fletch together....( she was the reason he came to SF..) and they gave them a comedic oddball relationship. During the cabin mystery they put Fletch with Claire for no reason and made her try comedy, which was not what the character was involved in before. I think it wasn't so much that they had to give Claire Hillary's plot, (as this was post DD, and after Clarke's time off) but more that Kobe MAY have been pissed and may have thought Clarke was leaving, so why give her a storyline? I think Long had Ed and Claire ONS planned but not the way it ended up (in Beruit, which was really stupid but..) I do think that they had problems with Stewart, and I know people like her but Elvera was not the greatest actress and I did hear she did not like what was given to her...and Kobe had it out for Clarke after the plot season thing..again, Kobe thought as long as Charita was there, all was good, and she actually was planning to put Bert and H.B. together so maybe she thought Bert would be given a whole new family( Bert Lewis????) Producers and writers take out their anger actors on characters all the time...McTrash...Rauchie had Dinah kill Hart because they were leaving and he didn't want them to ever come back (and actually gave Moniz some great material... I really felt Dinah coming apart. Again, I think this era is really interesting. I think Long and Kobe did a great job infusing the new characters into the show without pushing aside the core...but then the summer and fall of 85 the show just abruptly changes course.

Which is odd. Just as GL was going in this direction, ATWT was rebuilding and recentering the show around the Hughes. Its weird that PG would just let both shows flip flop when ATWT had higher ratings with a strong core they would naturally want GL the sister show to follow that?

Great idea...PG could be really, really stupid. I know in interviews Long said she was always really interested in Meta as she had this wild backstory, but then why were they considering her for Hannah? How long between Search ending and Long starting was there? I think Meta could have taken in her cousins kids in the years...say this Jack and Lanie had died when the kids were young and Meta during her time in SF took them in..that would give her a bit of a family ..though I think a now childless woman was perfect as town matriarch..I remember one BBBQ EVERYONE in town was addressing her as "Aunt Meta,".

Yea, that section of the Bauers came on after Long was there a while, when Johnny had cancer. If Long was going to ditch Bea ( I have no idea why she had it in for her) I could kinda see them bringing an extenion of the Bauers on that hadnt made it to the upper middle class...kind of going back to the orgins of the family. I liked the actors (I wish Lainie had been cast as Meta) and taking over Company/Boardinhouse ( I could see Meta taking over from Bea...especially since she had no children left, she could been the mother hen of all the young new characters who invariably lived at the BH first) made sense with connection to Maureen..they just werent written for at all..and Johnny was the only son brought on, and he was kinda dull and squeeky clean. Now an actual "Todd Bauer" someone who resented his cousins wealth and prestige would have been interesting, obviously Frankie couldnt play that type of character, and a Lacey who was the same (again, another actress) with other siblings, etc...COULD have worked. Its just odd that Long created them put them on contract, and they just sat around with Hawk and Sarah.

Transcripts are werent good then...I saw it and I remember her saying it, but a lot of people were talking at the time..

During one of the Locher shows...she said she "thinks" she was fired to free up money for "Justin." I am sure during the Rauch years Deas took pay cuts, just to continue working and getting that insurance, which I think is fine but as someone said, if only it was on a show I want watching. The writers did love writing for him, one of them was Hurst, who couldn't believe it when I posted something about not liking Buzz or the Coopers. She has mentioned that she felt the Coopers were like a warm blanket for her but I don't think she got them, or at least the Pam Long original intention (I actually like Hurst, she is willing to take criticism of the writing when she was there, admiting that there weere a lot of chefs in the kitchen.

The GL director told him to calm it down...Deas says he got pissed and just started sleepwalking through the scenes...which was fine by me!