chrisml

I wanted to refresh my memory so I did a search on Conboy and all of the news stories about his exit at the time. The articles indicated he was fired because of the nudity. A couple articles said it was the last straw which indicates Conboy had been battling execs for a while (as the walkout article posted above confirms). In fact, a spokesperson even came out to say the nude scene that aired (the Marty West behind) was not what had been approved. I find that hard to believe, but who knows? IT felt like CBS passing the buck. Conboy's firing is even listed many places as a consequence of the Jackson/Timberlake debacle. Interesting that Goutman was not fired even though Mark Collier's backside was seen. Marty West has not worked as an actor since.

I highly doubt in a genre where the execs micromanage every detail that Conboy would have been allowed to go over budget or make financial decisions without approval. This was years after JFP spent a lot of money on the ER set for AW. I remember reading (as I wrote before) that Conboy was let go because of the moral panic that set in after the infamous Janet Jackson/Timberlake fiasco. If Conboy did sink the budget for yrs to come, he was allowed to do so. As for the visual look of the show, I don't think Rauch improved it. I thought it looked incredibly dark and rather bland. re: Conboy. I was a fan of the idea behind his GL opening, but that theme was mind-numbingly bad. It didn't feel GL-related at all. I liked the visuals seguewaying into the episode. Rauch's version looked incredibly cheap and the less said about Wheeler's versions the better.

To give MDP a small degree of credit, I rewatch some of the episodes and I'm not bored. However, I'm struck by two things: the disregard for character development and lack of longterm plotting. And when I compare it to spring/fall of 1988, her tenure looks better in comparison. With that said, Efulton you're so right. Mary's story was botched from the beginning. The timing was not right for it because of the Vinces, nuMJ and Kathleen's departure, etc. I'd really like to know who was in charge of approving MDP's stories/characters. Why was nearly every MDP story a failure in some way?

I get the criticism about the Ben Reade storyline, but it was compelling t.v. and Matt Bomer was sensational. He should have won the Emmy. The Maryann Carruthers storyline was an attempt to tell an umbrella storyline which I like, and while it insulted the memory of viewers, there were compelling moments/episodes. I don't known if that storyline is worse than the traveling through a painting, cloning, Amish Reva, kissing cousins, Tangie, etc. It always amuses me that for all the criticism of Conboy, it was a backside that got him fired.

I think Gottlieb's biggest faux pas was allowing Todd to become the "anti-hero" of the show. He should have been killed/writte off (much like Jake on AW), but soaps love their rapists. I don't watch any of the soaps now, so I don't know if that love for rapists still goes on. They created such a strong story with Marty's gang rape and then had to rewrite history (forgetting Todd had raped before) so they could turn Todd into what he became. Granted, it's not as bad as what Carlivati would do years later, but it's still icky and an insult.

I gave up on GL years before it ended. I would come back in every so often, but I rarely stayed a consistent viewer for very long. The Ellen Wheeler era just ruined it for me. I know the Conboy era gets the most flack, but I could at least enjoy it on an episode by episode basis even if the overriding stories did not grab me or make sense. Wheeler came in, and for me, there was a meanness and creepiness that she added that I found unsettling. I know Jonathan is the prime example of this, but other characters became so hateful and unlikeable.

I really like Considine and Alexander as well. I wouldn't say I hated the idea of thestoryline; it was more the execution. It had so many long-term possibilities. I disliked The Red Swan more, but this storyline was the pits because it ended with a whimper. For example, why couldn't Mary decide she still loved Reginald so there was a lot of conflict? What if Reginald was not turned into a moustache-twirling villain? What if MJ discovered the secret while going undercover? What if that's the secret and not the whole prostitution thing? They could still do the Scott is Donna's son if they wanted. Instead, they had Mary become so milquetoast and decide to become a therapist. Just what the audience wanted: Denise Alexander as a talk-to character.

I completely agree about all of this, and I would that I wish Liz's return had been longer. I did not see her initial run but I wanted more from her second run. Caroline reminds me off Scott in that there were always beginnings of a storyline, but nothing ever went anywhere. Joy Bell was so charismatic. Allison Hossack was so good as Olivia, but it never went anywhere either. Swajeski's tenure was just as bad for false starts, untapped potential, and wasted characters/actors.

I think Gottlieb's work from 1991 to 1993 is excellent with a few misfires. It was compelling storytelling, and there was an empathy that was not always there on the show. That time did have the worst opening visuals even if I think the theme is gorgeous.

Obviously, Scott and Cheryl made a big impression on me since I still remember them 35+ years later even before seeing some of their episodes recently on YT. I thought Scott had so much potential, and it did seem like they were constantly creating storylines for him that went nowhere or they didn't develop. He had chemistry with everyone, but the writers never showed much interest in him. As Soaplovers points out, they didn't even write the expected beats for Cheryl when her dead mother returns. Cheryl also could have been spun into other stories as she had connections to Nancy, Ada, Mary, etc. Instead, it was nothing. I'm glad Anna Holbrook came on the show, but Alexandra Wilson's Josie was a poor replacement for Cheryl in my opinion. They wanted Denise Alexander, but then did not really do her justice. IT's bad enough and they had to rewrite/destroy the character of MJ so that Sally Spencer was sabotaged from the beginning. I find 1987 and early 1988 so frustrating on AW because it all just went so flat and icky (Lisa's backstory/the murders/getting rid of Quinn/MJ).

Thank you all for filling in the gaps of the Jake/Marley/Vicky stories. I was not a consistent viewer after 1991, and I definitely not watch more after Frankie's death. I just remember being disgusted by how Marley was written when Wheeler returned. I still think AW should have done what ATWT did: kill off Jake. Just throwing it out there: Are there characters from 1985 to 1991 that you feel didn't get a fair shake? Characters or performers you think should have lasted longer. I immediately think of Hank Cheyne's Scott and Sally Spencer's MJ. I'm sure I could think of many but those two come to mind.

I still wish Jake had been killed off when the "Who shot Jake?" storyline started. I think the obsession with Jake hurt the show for years. The storyline was so icky that the writers wanted us to side with Vicky rather than her sister who had been raped. Only on soaps. And I liked Joseph Barbara as Joe. I thought he was a charismatic actor, but soaps tend to flatten out those types of characters.

Thank you for posting that. I am glad I remembered correctly. Laibson and the network/P&G treated Timmins horribly. I was outraged even as a child that I never took to Evans's Paulina even though I like Evans as an actress. 1991 was a terrible time for AW because they lost Timmins, Heche, Holbrook, etc. and the replacements for the first two just made their absences even worse.

I'm probably wrong, but my impression was that the show wanted to lure Judi Evans to the show so they fired Cali Timmins to give Evans a character to play. I remember reading somewhere that Timmins said she was told she was going to have a new exciting story with the reveal of Jake's shooter, and then shortly after she was fired.

I think this is good assessment. The nuPaulina was more like Vicky so it didn't leave room for two Vickies on the show. I still don't understand why they didn't just cast Evans as Vicky if they wanted her so much. It would have at least made sense since AW viewers might have been more likely to watch DOOL. I suppose execs thought hiring Jensen Buchanan would be a big "get" but why would OLTL fans care that she moved to AW? Buchanan and Evans started around the time and I remember the audience reaction was not positive to either actress in the beginning.

I didn't like the Rose/Lily thing on ATWT. Found it immensely annoying. As for Justine, I'm all for campy stories, but this one just depended on the audience having amnesia and characters being absolutely stupid. It seems emblematic of AW in its last years: a storyline that insults the audience at every turn. I can't determine who was the EP when it started. Was it Valente or JFP who helmed the show when the storyline was going on? I'm always ready to blame JFP but I don't want to do so if it were not her. re: Marley. I thought Jensen Buchanan was terrible as Marley and Vicky. She took every inch of life out of Marley. I'll take Heche's terrible wig over anything Buchanan did. I can't think of a more dull actress than Buchanan who managed to get nominated for an Emmy. I'm sure there are more during the time the Emmies mattered, but Buchnaan was such a dud in my eyes. Didn't like her on AW. Thought she was a waste on GH (as did most viewers) and I have no memory of her YR.

For someone like me, Carmen Duncan is Iris. I never saw McKinsey's Iris. It's a bit like how I felt when they brought back Robin Strasser as Dorian. I saw Strasser as an interloper since Elaine Princi was the Dorian I knew. I'm willing to give Swajeski some grace for not having a game plan for something as unforeseen as Watson's death, but she dragged out the Red Swan story so long that she had enough time to come up with a contingency plan.

No worries. I do think Sisters did not get the acclaim it deserved. For all the talk about the best dramas around the time of Sisters, it's "Murder She Wrote" that lasted the test of time and is still the most popular today. That show was written off as fluff from the beginning. I'm certainly not comparing it to other shows, but it's interesting that "Murder She Wrote" and "Golden Girls" never went out of fashion. I remember years ago when NEtflix stopped streaming MSW, and all hell broke loose. It got so bad that customer service reps would ask, "Is this about Murder, She Wrote" when you'd call up on Netflix customer service about anything. I'm almost afraid to go back and revisit Sisters because I wonder if it's as good as I remember (pre-Falconer dying/Georgie's fatal attraction nonsense).

There's Victoria Wyndham talk on the Guiding Light thread, and it made me upset yet again that they did not maintain the Iris/Rachel feud because Victoria Wyndham and Carmen Duncan were so good during "The Chief" storyline, and they just dropped it after Douglass Watson died. Instead, we got the "go nowhere interesting" Red Swan storyline. I wish Duncan and Wyndham had been given the material they deserved.

Wyndham probably relished playing Justine because it at least gave her something to do rather than being a talk-to for other characters. She had a hard time getting back to Rachel. It reminded me of when Dustin Hoffman played Rainman and then bits of that character showed up in other performances. I know some people said the same thing happened to Zimmer after the clone storyline, but I was not a consistent enough viewer to know.

Just to be clear. I'm not the Chris who was comparing Sisters to Thirtysomething. That's Chris2. I do think Sisters was an underrated show, and that it was dismissed because it was a female-centred programme.

I imagine Sisters was dismissed as a the t.v. version of the "chick lit" insult. T.v. critics and the Emmys tend not to reward shows like Sisters. I remember the snide U.S.A. today critic predicting the Lead Actress category (the year Ward won) and saying Angela Lanbsury should finally win since the emmy voters had decided (gasp!) to put two Sisters actresses in the category. Most of the time the Emmys do not recognise female-centred dramatic shows. Are Handmaid's Tale and Cagney and Lacey the only ones?

NBC probably did interfere once it became an emmy-winning show. I tend to blame the writers and producers as well because they did the same sorts of things during their time on Queer as Folk. Sela Ward wins the emmy, and they remove so much of the story that made the story so resonant to viewers. I'm leaving Clooney out of that as he was leaving no matter what, and Falconer was a minor part of the emmy-winning story. I checked out of Sisters early in the fifth season that I didn't even know there was a sixth season. I always thought it ended with season five. With the way season four went down, I have no interest to go back and watch the last two seasons.

I really liked Mark Frankel on the show. I wish Simon had lasted longer. Getting rid of Ed Molinaro was another blow. You're completely right. The therapist story was not natural. It felt forced and as if new writers came in and decided to take the show in a new direction. How do you go from an emmy-winning season to that? It still boggles my mind how the quality took such a sharp nosedive.

I never thought Tom Eplin or Jake were worth all the hoops the writers went through to keep him viable. The way they turned Marley into a nutjob at the end of the series to prop up Vicky and Jake was just so ugh ugh ugh. I can't believe they moved him to ATWT of all characters.