carolineg

43 minutes ago, Vee said:

There's no endgame there as long as Vanessa Marcil is alive IMO, lol. When this show goes off the air or MB quits or retires it will be Sonny and Brenda, hopefully not just with her coming back at the end.

I do think multiple regimes have known for many years Maurice and Laura just don't have it, and FV parked them together to try to keep the show stable and thought the FB, etc. or casual audience's loyalty for them would carry the day through endless mind-numbing couplehood sagas. Then that ended for a variety of reasons, probably not by his choice. It's always been a stopgap with LW in the role. And now that they've broken apart again I think it's more likely to stay that way than it was for far too long. JMO.

I want to believe this so much.  I agree with all the points about Mo and Laura just not having it.  I just don't want to get my hopes up and expect the worst lol.  

See, I think the only reason Sonny/Carly were kept apart so long in the 2000's is because Jax was a much better, more viable option.  Unless the show goes full steam with Carly/Jason I don't see Carly or Sonny having much else to do with who's currently on screen.  

Even if Carly/Jagger works I just don't see AH's Jagger as someone who's on the show long-term.   I don't want Sonny/Carly to be endgame, but I have made my peace with it. 

I don't think anyone including LW and MB love the idea and there are a lot of variables here like LW or MB leaving, getting VM back, a new pairing that sparks more interest, etc.   I would love to be wrong about this though.

8 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if Nina and Carly become unlikely allies to at least take down and expose Ava. Nina already knows what Ava’s game is, it’s just getting the likes of Carly and Jason to believe her. 

I like that idea.  I feel like this show tends to pit Carly against woman that she'd probably get along with if the weren't sleeping with Sonny/Jason.  I am not advocating Nina/Carly as bffs, but they have more in common than her and Olivia. 

8 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

But I liked Sonny/Nina!!  Though they were (well Sonny was) more interesting post-Nixon Falls because the duality that MB was doing with Mike/Sonny was all over him and clear to see no matter how Sonny tried to hide it. It was fascinating to watch for sure. 

 

I mean, I know Sonny/Nina have some fans and it isn't the worst Sonny pairing, but did ever think it was an endgame pairing?  

6 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Well I am not sure about kooky cousin, but I've been saying in the 'redeeming' Heather that she could very well be pulled back toward being cunning again and not over the top. 

Time will tell.

 

 

Yeah, the story has barely started.  I am just not a fan of the idea.  Execution is key here.

20 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

It’s even funny that Liz wasn't even invited to the bachelorette party. She’s romantically involved with Chase’s brother, that’s closer of a connection than some others have to BLQ that were invited, lol. 

Don't Brook Lynn and Liz dislike one another?  Going way back to the Adrianne Leon days because of Nik?    I can't even recall any AS and BH scenes, but I am sure they exist.

12 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

We all know how much JFP loved focus groups and how good she was at skewing the data to support her decisions/kinds of characters she wanted to focus on. Partner that with Frons who had certain sensibilities towards young women and flawed men as the leads on his network and we got the results in the 2000’s on GH and ABC daytime in general.

Sonny has always been a popular character. My argument back then and now is that if he and Carly and Jason are the most popular characters why does that not translate to ratings? Guza and JFP made a quality show that drove millions of viewers away during their tenure.

The ratings growth happened when FV and RC brought back tons of vets for the 50th, and their big ratings win was due to Robin returning from the dead a year later. None of those stories focused on Sonny, Carly, or Jason (who was gone). Even that ratings growth was beyond the show because they dragged it out due to KMc’s availability.

At this point in time, I am not sure anyone can bring in massive ratings on GH.  Even proven ratings winners like KMC and Vanessa.   They might get initial boosts, but the show has to be good.  And it really hasn't been for years.  

The sole focus on Carly, Jason, Sonny has been a detriment to the show, but I still believe they are popular and familiar to people.  I just think the show hasn't done a great job building up the "next" generation of leads.  If they aren't the focus then who's next?  Liz?  Dante?  Sam?  Perhaps because the show always feels like it's on borrowed time or just laziness.  There is no reason to kill of female leads like Emily and Georgie, keeping Lulu and Lucky off canvas, poor casting for people like Willow and Michael, and poor writing/pairings for Maxie/Brook Lynn. 

There are some positives.  Recasting Kristina with Kate Mansi and making the teens more individual helps, but the show has a long way to go. 

BB definitely played Everett/Bobby different today.  Maybe someone actually finally told him where this story was going lol.  It's a drastic shift in the way he was playing the character before.  I think he's the villain in this, but I also am a bit concerned it might be DID too.  Because.......Ron.

I was a bit confused as I was doing something else while watching.  Are Wendy and Tripp just visiting Hong Kong or moving there?  And, hey, at least there is some movement in the who killed Li story.

I get that Rafe is mad at Ava, but he really did her dirty too with the Nicole situation.  I wish he wasn't so smug in scenes with her.  

18 minutes ago, Vee said:

I suspect the Saga of Heather's Hip is intended to transition AM/Heather into a role of Laura's kooky cousin/talk-to on canvas, still making mischief but not psychotic. It's certainly not something I'd come up with but so far I've been impressed with the performances and writing involved, and I appreciate their mining of the Webber family connectivity with the two women. So I'm provisionally open to it.

Idk, I can see some logic in 'redeeming' Heather, but I feel like at this point the character is pretty far gone.  It feels more like a Days of Our Lives story than a GH one.

13 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Oh, his whiplash of marriages is insane. Brenda would be a key choice. I just need to see less of Sonny. I really do.

At this point,  I can't believe any audience member can invest in Sonny's love life.  I know Sonny/Nina have a few intense, vocal fans, but even the most clueless viewers couldn't possibly think that marriage was going to last.  The energy and screentime for that could have been focused elsewhere.

I do admit I find some of the hospital stories quite dull and while Patrick/Robin put focus on the hospital again some of their stories were dreadful.  Blog Wars?  Robin's hunt for sperm?  Bleh.  I am not saying the focus shouldn't be on the hospital, but I don't find Heather's poison hip story very compelling if that's any indication of where PM/EK are going.

9 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

And transitioning him into a supporting role would also open the doors for [hopefully] a more hospital-centric soap once again.

Yes.  I think Sonny needs to settle down and take on a more mature role.  Sonny still acts as recklessly as he did in his 20's.   I think the show would be wise to stick with a pairing for him and move away from his love life.  I believe @Vee once suggested that Sonny marries Brenda and Vanessa could appear as often as she wanted or even have her living part time in Rome to explain her absence just to settle his romantic life once and for all.   I'd be fine with him marrying Carly and sticking with it too.  There just really isn't anything terribly interesting about Sonny's revolving romantic life.

I agree the truth about Sonny/MB lies somewhere in between and most offline viewers still watching GH tolerate whatever is thrown at them.  

I think it would be wise to transition Sonny into a more supporting role.  His character has run it's course honestly.  We keep seeing the same stories for Sonny-betrayal by a women, mob threats, breakdowns, etc.   I don't think it would be a great move to get rid of MB all together.

I remember hearing somewhere that Sonny is extremely popular with the average viewer and the online consensus of his character isn't the general opinion of the audience.   It was a long time ago and I have no idea if it's still true but it's always stuck in my head.   I honestly don't know a single person in my real life that watches GH these days so I have no way to poll anyone lol.

34 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Saw this today and thought of you @carolineg

 

Thanks!  The last appearance thus far for my Brenda!  Also probably the best scene of the entire return.  It made no real sense with the story but when you can just feel the illogical longing and love it still gets me.  Also 11 years ago makes me feel old.

30 minutes ago, Vee said:

It was a few years ago, and sounds like it still is somewhere. I'm amazed people are still at it. That Becky story is hilarious.

They used to have a spoiler section with drops that I appreciated.  But when you looked at the actual daily threads both Kemo and BH had affairs with Steve and the Kemo one went south but Becky was his true love.  It was so exhausting to scroll and scroll with all the Liason 4 ever emoji tags that I just gave up on the entire board.  Anytime a mildly insightful point came up the spam just increased for non related pairings.  

25 minutes ago, Vee said:

Near as I can tell the only place any of these supposed 'rumors' actually come from is the mental hospital that used to be the old Daytime Dish. I haven't been there in forever but the last I checked years ago it was nothing but Jason couples stans gaslighting each other everyday that Becky or Kelly was going to get fired so the other one could be with Burton. So no, I don't particularly buy that Becky Herbst is going anywhere. It's been a long time since GH had any real insiders out there.

Daytime Dish is still a thing?  I remember about 10 years ago they had some decent insiders, but you had to work through 3000 pages of Jason shipper stans to get through it and it basically scared anyone with info off.   The days when everyone was convinced BH's first son was conceived by Steve through an illicit affair when the child literally looks like her husband's clone lol.  Wild times!

59 minutes ago, j swift said:

In the name of gender equatable progress, many schools have dropped their dress code policies because they were mostly coded toward girls, and often enforced by men.  That being said, Holly is dressed by a costume department who would be wise to make better choices than try to exploit the body of a character who is meant to be underage.

I mean, she looked great and it was a cute outfit, but in all interest of Nicole trying to reign Holly in for bad behavior, I can't see any mother being okay with that outfit.  It's just a minor thing and wardrobe often lacks to make sense.  But also Tate and Holly are just re-starting the school year in late April, also makes 0 sense for them to complete the year lol.  With Tate being pulled out of boarding school and in rehab and Holly being in a coma for months that seems implausible.

It's been awhile since I have been in high school clearly, but how can Holly wear half a top to class?  Nicole was okay with that outfit?  Her entire stomach was showing.  You'd immediately get sent to the office and have to wear your gym shirt if you showed up to school like that and I just went to a regular public high school in this century lol.  Maybe times have changed.  I like Sophia so far, but I hate when the sidekick is played as the slightly dumb one like Mimi and that's how she felt in this episode.

Oh, Eric. He thinks Sloan has a gambling addiction.  Lol.  Shopping addiction, substance abuse, an affair, and honestly blackmail are places I would go first before even considering GAMBLING!  I honestly can see why Sloan thinking she doctored the numbers and Eric wouldn't notice.  And, seriously, at the end of the day, is it that bad Sloan tried to help Eric get a job?  He isn't making money.  While I might be a bit peeved my significant other called a friend on my behalf the intentions aren't bad. 

And, uh, is Alex making reference to Dickens work with his Konstantin reference?  He knows that and expects Theresa to know that too?  Like, neither of seem that well read.  And Theresa there's a gym practically in your living room so it's funny she's going to an actual gym.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

Or: Drew gets openly involved with Nina a la Katherine and Damian Smith but two-times her with younger model Willow. And yes, there has been inappropriate chemistry with Willow and Drew and to a lesser extent Jason forever.

I do think Lois at Deception can work, but I would prefer to see her music life woven in somehow.

Works for me.  I want Willow to do something, anything interesting .

2 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Ding, ding, ding! I think that's it. I do love Lois still and will always have her BFF'S back so she ain't liking Nina. hehe. 

 

Now that you write it like that...lol. It never even occurred to me...the mother AND the daughter. One thing that I've been loving since EK/PM started is that links that I've forgotten about keep popping up, bringing with it interesting story possibilities.

 

And I admit...I've noticed weird sexual chemistry with Willow/Drew over the last few months, too. It could even lead to all of them being written out. Or Michael going dark. Let's see that inner Quartermaine pop out.

 

Lois was actually defending Nina, IMO.  Not shaming Brenda, but saying something about Nina/Sonny must be different.  And in a good way in regards to Nina/Sonny.  But it was back in December or something so I don't fault Lois.

I have noticed chemistry between Drew and Willow for awhile and a mother/daughter triangle sounds fun.  I just really hate all the players involved.  I think Katelyn MacMullen has anti-chemistry with CD and I think the Michael romance actually bores her as an actress.  I am in no way defending KMM, but I think she might be slightly more capable than just mooning over Michael and corralling her annoying children.

I have a hard time believing Carson or JaSam will ever be off the table permanently.  Sonny/Nina?  Probably.  But this show has shifted back to Carly/Sonny and Jason/Sam so many times after I thought they were done I would never say it's forever.  For now?  Yeah, but those two pairings have been default for so long I would never say never on them.

I have to agree about the whole radiation story.  They made a weekly promo about it and Deidre Hall gasped, "Paulina's radioactive" in the most dramatic way and everyone's healthy, Chanel was missing for an hour or two and got a sprained ankle, and it's all fine and good.  Even Julie being there at the cabin was weird.  She served no real purpose.  The entire thing could have been done without her.  The most pointless plot point ever and that's saying a lot on Days.

@j swiftI am pretty sure Ava was only the manager of the Bistro.  She didn't own any part of it.

6 minutes ago, Taoboi said:

Though I do feel like it has gotten a mention in the last year or so. But I could be wrong. 

Lois did to Sonny, but it was in a more "you hated Brenda when she betrayed you, but don't seem to hate Nina so you two most be soulmates" kind of way.  I don't count that lol.

36 minutes ago, Khan said:

Too bad the "age of MTV" has passed.  Otherwise, I could see Tracy buying Home & Heart(h) as a sort of wedding present for BLQ, and then BLQ and Lois revamping it into a music channel.

 

It does seem like the era where the music business seemed viable and cool in a way that it could easily be portrayed on screen has long passed, but the show acts like newspapers and magazines are still big business so I'd buy it.

I am also here for Willow/Drew.  They have had something weird I can't pinpoint for months.  Let's just go for broke and do a Willow/Nina/Drew love triangle.

5 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Right, and it’s not like Maxie doesn’t know who Brenda is, lol

Obviously, I haven't seen it yet, but it would seem more normal to just refer to Brenda by name as the Face of Deception in the 90's instead of her best friend just because Maxie would naturally know this information and what their relationship was, but whatever lol.  

2 minutes ago, Vee said:

I am all for Lois having a purpose, but they'd have to explain where her thriving music career is supposed to go lol. And she needs a proper story and man!

Yeah, I have no problem with Lois working for Deception, but she seems quite fulfilled with her career.  I'd rather her and Brook Lynn figure out something in the music business they can do together.

53 minutes ago, Vee said:

I doubt it. IIRC Hannah was a Riche mandate, and the disdain for her oozed out of the scripts. I liked LV with Billy Warlock, but looking at it now she was very green and it was probably time to go.

I feel like Hannah was barely used and halfway out the door long before she actually left.  With C level pairings with Taggert and AJ.  I doubt she would have been used as well.  She was one of those characters that seemed doomed from inception and it seems like LV was hired for her looks more than her experience.

9 minutes ago, Bright Eyes said:

 

@carolineg thought of you instantly when Lois mentioned her best friend. If the scenes with Maxie are insinuating that she could join Deception, hopefully that means that she's sticking around and will be given some purpose all her own.

Yay!  A Brenda mention?  Even in the most vague way and a possible sign Lois and Brenda might still be bff?  I can't catch it till later, but I assume it will make me happy.  Thanks for the heads up.

23 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

When Lois mentioned that her “best friend” was the face of Deception in the 90’s, I wondered if Frank was being a little bitch by not having Brenda mentioned by name. 

I feel like it's been years since Brenda was mentioned by name.

7 hours ago, titan1978 said:

IIRC the diamonds on the necklace were the Ice Princess cut up. And Victor ended up with it for his new weather machine? It was very convoluted. Cody just wanted the diamonds, I don’t think he was connected to the 60th anniversary story with Holly trying to get it and also Victor.

I don’t know what happened to it after they saved the day and Victor was killed. And Britt was also involved?

 

I think Britt also was making a claim of ownership on the necklace and was fighting Cody on it.  After she died I guess that claim didn't matter.  I really don't remember what happened to the necklace after Victor was killed either.  I *think* he might have had an attack of conscience and just dropped the whole thing because I don't think Cody has a legitimate claim if he's not Leo's son.  Not positive though.  Someone who was paying more attention than me might know better.

13 minutes ago, DeliaIrisFan said:

PS: I don't know why I care, but did I read correctly above that Cody really is Dominique's son?  From some scenes when I first tuned back in earlier this year for Bobbie's send-off, I thought Cody was pretending to be Dom's son for the money, and he was hiding the fact that Mac was his father because that would blow his cover.  I forgot/never realized Mac and Dominique had been an item once.  Then again, I've been confused that Cody is working in the Quartermaines' stable if he currently has Dom's inheritance.  I also thought Sasha was his accomplice and more of an ethically gray character given that she switched the paternity test.  So clearly I missed a lot...

Cody has pretty much always stated he was Dominique's son.  He pretended to be Dominique and her husband Leopold Taub's child for inheritance.  He wanted to inherit a necklace and I actually don't know how that ended.  I think Holly/Robert did something with said necklace, so I don't think there is any inheritance.  Anyhow, Cody found out Mac was his father but didn't want to burden him or something.  The Dominique/Mac timeline does not support this at all, but I believe Cody's endgame is to re-buy the Bell's mansion/estate in the end.  As far as Sasha I don't think she's ethically grey and mostly boring, but Cody did a hell of a lot to protect her from Gladys and her evil shrink so I think she felt she just owed him one.

1 hour ago, titan1978 said:

It was very strange. Not to mention this is all in such a short amount of time, a little over a year. It’s wild how messy the show was onscreen and off from end of summer 1996 to December 1997 (Guza officially credited again). The rough writing contributed to Maurice leaving, Vanessa almost leaving, and Genie refusing to return to the show (she was really happy at home with her two children, why leave that for the aggravation happening at the show).

 NLG was hired without an actual part to play, so Alexis wasn’t a well crafted character and they made it work on the fly. She has said that poor foundation is why she felt like they just did whatever with her for years.

Nobody was happy, even Guza was upset with the timing and he was leaving for a show he was going to have a created by credit on. Because the show was on fire and they had barely started.

I certainly don't envy the cast upheaval at the time.  Mo and Vanessa were quoted in magazines saying they were leaving together and a few weeks later Vanessa was back in for another year.  That had to derail a lot of plans.  Not to mention Genie's extension of her maternity leave.  They also had other minor to moderate issues (Kristina Wagner not coming to terms immediately, Miranda and recast Gina Cates flopping, KMC's college schedule, Rena's ins and outs, having to figure out something for Jane Elliot and Tracy last minute etc.)  I am not blaming the talent and most were worth the trouble, but it must have created some unforeseen issues.  It was just unfortunate timing all around.

39 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

The affair was, and how the affair began at first was going to repeat when the affair stopped and he became more of a stalker, the gifts were going to become creepy. I don’t know beyond that what was going to happen/what Culliton changed. But the affair and a certain unhinged behavior by Dorman was all Guza/Harris. I tend to believe the trial for sexual harassment was Guza because he loved trials. All his tenures involved major court cases.

Tin Man stuff was way after Guza’s projections, although I can’t remember if it was Culliton or the next writers that also started the Aztec doll nonsense.

Apologies for dropping all this in this thread but that’s where the discussion about SN was happening!

Again, thank you for your thoughtful reply.  I just find that whole era so strange.  Watching in in real time it didn't feel that bad, but when I try to figure out how a hospital story became about the mob way before that was GH's style I am always confused.  Add Jax get arrested for drug smuggling, Alexis wanting Stefan to think he was in love with his sister, Laura's fake death, and Aztec dolls it's just a very hard time to analyze.