Soaplovers

I agree that one of the strengths of the RH of Orange County was the constant revolving door of housewives. I think viewers will embrace the overhaul especially if it brings two or three new housewives especially if they are snarky and can cut Tamra/Vicki/Heather down to size.

Still bummed Lydia quit cause I think she had some snarky one liners, but I'm hoping for some new blood and some occasional visits from lauri or jeana.

So for long-term viewers, has the show been slowly going back to the show it once was.. or is there still more work to be done?

I've read some other board that has said Eileen's son Todd isn't acting like he used to act, that he is acting out of character... is that true?

Regarding the announcement of new housewives for OC? I do think that rumours of new housewives don't come in right away, that it gets reported as the season carries on. Lydia wasn't confirmed as a housewife till filming was over half-over.. same with Carlton and Joyce on RHOBH.

I do recall Kyle mentioning in an interview at the start of filming for season 4 that new housewives were hired and filming.. but that she didn't know who they were yet... so it's possible that could be going on with OC.

Started S1 and I'm not feeling it one bit. Dylan McDermott is a really good actor, but his meaty scenes always come off as whining. He was this way on The Practice too.

Not feeling Connie Britton either. I will give it a few more eppies and then check out S2, but so far, S3 is where it's at!

You see I liked Connie Britton in season 1, but of course, I like more low-key acting then over the top scene chewing that Ms. Lange has been doing for the last several years. I enjoyed Jessica Lange in season 1, but she wasn't the main star.. but more of a supporting character that stole the show.

Season 2 and 3 have gotten more over the top without a low-key actor to balance out the craziness. Plus, not feeling the whole concept of reusing actors from season to season. Though I do like that they have included Kathy Bates, Patti Lupone, and Angela Basset this season but with the subject matter in episode 3.. I might have to tune out.

I watched Delia's scenes today, and I sort of got a Roxy vibe.. but I think the character was fairly Delia. It was nice to find out that her son is running Ryan's, that she is still married to Roger and that both Roger/Delia were unfortunate victims of the recession. It does seem in character for Delia to revert to being dependent on the Ryan's family when things got tough in the real world, which we saw in 1980/1981, 1983, and in 1986. Delia seemed very dependent and like a lost soul.. which I think we got a glimpse of today while Roxy was a hell on wheels bitch that didn't depend on anyone.

I think the Dobson's are pretty good writers, but ATWT is a different show then GL was so their writing style didn't mesh with ATWT like it did with GL. I liked that P & G would switch up their writers, but they should have been more careful in switching writers to shows that would with the writers. I often wonder if the Dobson's should have been switched to Search for Tomorrow when the Corrington's had left to create Texas.

Back on topic, I think Marland ended up writing ATWT longer then he should have and I often think he should have been switched out in 1990/1991. Just not sure who could have written the show in his place if they had opted to switch him out.

What was the reason he only lasted two months or so at ATWT in late 1979?

Diane Franklin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diane_Franklin

What gets me in these clips, especially the one with John eating with Kim, is how much John is like Lucinda - everything he hated about Lucinda. He's so neurotic, so fussy, gossipy, insecure, pushy.

It is said that what we hate in others is what we hate in ourselves.

Were Delia and Roxy all that different from each other? If you looked at Delia in the 70s compared to Roxy then yes.. but what about Delia circa 1986 to 1989? Was she all that different from Roxy?

I guess either P&G was wary, or the Dobsons wanted to use these characters to try to make their new creations popular.

I'm voting for choice #2.

I do think Lisa/Nick would have been a better choice instead of Lisa w/Whit McCall and Nick w/Kim.

Didn't someone previously mention that Bob and Kim were reunited by SBH on a whim?

I was surprised at how many stories/characters were started under SBH that Marland carried on (i.e Sierra being Lucinda's daughter, Sierra/Craig, Shannon, plus bringing back Nancy/Chris... and starting Frannie with Steven Weber's character plus his shifty ex girlfriend Marie). While a part of me wonders what SBH would have done with these stories, I think Marland carried on quite well with these initial stories and added some great touches like Douglas Cummings, Duncan, etc. Though I think making Lily adopted by Iva was kind of unneeded even though there were some great scenes with the pitchfork.

Ed Fry who played Larry did a series of commercials with Mary Ellen Stuart (Frannie) for Rooms To Go for close to 15 years.

I really liked Mary Ellen as Frannie. I didn't care for Julianne Moore at all. I still don't like her all that much as an actress and never thought she was attractive.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who liked Mary Ellen Stuart as Frannie! She was nice, but also had a backbone and was intelligent for the most part. If she hadn't opted to leave the show right before Marland died, do you think the character of Frannie would have survived well into the 90s?

I don't recall which writers split David and Ellen (when he had amnesia and got involved with Linda Dano's Cynthia), but it was really the only interesting--and, sadly, short-lived--storyline for them in all of the 80's. Ellen briefly had her single life, but she and David reconciled pretty wuickly, IIRC. Cynthia was written out (although her fascinating daughter Karen stuck around). Although I liked David and Ellen, this was the only time I was INTERESTED in Them.

While David and Ellen were split (which was about a year), didn't she move into a singles community and date a handsome doctor?

I think the split started when Tom King was writer, and the Dobson's kept them separated for several months before they reunited in a Christmas 1982 wedding.

I think back in the 60s/70s, writers could write nice and good characters more 3-D without being so sickly sweet.

With that said, I wonder how Douglas Marland would have written for Lily had Lucy Deakins remained in the part? Based on the few episodes I saw with her version of Lily, she seemed more of a town boy then a spoiled princess.

FOr me, the show officially died in 1998 with the 'clone' Reva story.. and she basically being featured so much. Before 1998, the show still seemed fairly balanced and it still felt like GL.

Is it true that Another World had a brief ratings resurgence in the mid-80s due to Caitlin/Sally and Jacqueline Courtney's brief return? It didn't seem like the show gave Alice much to do during her year long return. I know she was a doctor, and had a brief romance with someone already on the canvas... but what do you think the show could have done to make better use of Alice? Other then a revisit of Rachel and her fighting over another man.. that is.

Also, I think the Mckinnon's could have stayed on even with the return of the Frames and Matthews in the late 80s. I could see harding Lemay having a ball writing the family... i mean the mom was presumed dead for years.. MJ was basically a surrogate mother while Kathleen was the free-spirit and Cheryl was the young princess who hardly remembered her mother...plus, I could have seem Harding Lemay bringing back Ben.. or at least mentioning him.

The question isn't if Nene is right or wrong, but how Mr. Cohen will try to edit the show to make nene look like the hurt party. You know that's what will happen... just like he will be obsessed with making Kyle the hurt party on RHOBH, as well.

I remember an interview with Colleen zenk before the show ended where she remembered her first week or two of episodes involved her saying sorry to almost everyone she came into contact.. and that she was intrigued to know why she was so sorry LOL

I agree that sometimes the Snyders seemed to be on a different soap then the rest of the canvas. After the first three years or so, it seemed like any attempt to connect the Snyders to the rest of the families came to an end... at least in a romantic sense.

I think once Marland passed, the follow up writers were on the right track writing each of the Snyders out one by one.. but I don't think the Kasnoff's were the right replacement family. I remember Mike was created, and he mentioned a sister named Stephanie who lived in Chicago who married for money.. but I don't recall mention of Sarah nor Mark. Shame they never cast Stephanie nor the mother character (whose name was Nora, I think).

I viewed Rosanna as Lily-lite, at least her first year or so on the show. I think that I preferred Tess to Debbie because at least Tess had ties to Hal and Barbara.. thus keeping some sort of tie/connection of the Snyder's to the rest of the canvas.

I think that the Snyders living on the farm isolated them to a certain extent as opposed to them living in town as a working class family. I always thought Marland's concept/creation of the Reardon's were better then his concept of the Snyders.. imho.

For me, I think the Snyder's both helped and hurt ATWT in the long-run. I think in the 80's through the mid-90s, the Snyder's served a strong purpose.. but I think by the late 90s, they should have been phased out along with that tacky Snyder kitchen set. To think that the show phased out the nice Hughes living room/kitchen set for that tacky Snyder set made me really question the show's wisdom.

I know Marland died in 1993, but I heard a rumour that he was in the midst of phasing out the Snyder's.. was that true, or was it just the follow-up writers phasing them out? Plus, is it true that Marland had the Kasnoff's in his story plans?

Did the Snyder's ever hang out at the Hughes family home, and vice versa?

Wasn't Pam a niece of John Dixon's? If so, I'm surprised that more wasn't done to keep her on the show. From what I recall, she was the good to Meg's grey shadings.

I think it's funny how Nene was angry at Diana/Marlo for not focusing on her.. when Nene has proven time and time again that she would pull that same crap if she doesn't get attention. I'm hoping eventually Queen Nene gets a rude awakening.

I like the 13 episode per season thing especially since this is more a continuing saga and the networks love to pre-empt. Plus, today's writers seem incapable of crafting a 22 episode season without filler... makes you wonder how they would have coped back in the days of 30 to 33 episode seasons.

Reading up on the show's history, I was intrigued with the character of Joyce Coleman. From what I gathered, her character's introduction helped to change the role of Lisa (i.e. from scheming bitch to more of an anti-heroine). I also noticed that she was not only hooked up with Grant, but also caused complications for Donald and Bob Hughes as well.

For long-time viewers, I was wondering if she was written better pre-Dobsons? I noticed that the Dobson's bought her back from the 'dead' and had her back for over a year before she moved away to start anew. Nowadays, I think she would have gone full-on psycho.. but back then I noticed that she had a job and even friends. I often wonder if the character could have continued past 1981, or if the character's stay from 1972/3 to 1981 was far too long? I bet Douglas Marland would have loved to write for her.

I think Tina Faye hosting helped this season. I'm still not comfortble with all the new cast but i'm sure i will be by the end of the season. I bet many of the featured players will become full cast members next season.

I didn't catch on that when you fo Weekend Update you don't get sketches anymore. but now that you said it, it's true. Even back in the Dennis Miller days. I don't remember him doing sketches, he was just the anchor. I hope they make an exception with her. I beleive they are setting up for her to be the first woman sole host of the anchor desk. I know Lorne wants Seth to stay until the end of the season but I think he'll be too busy in January starting his new show.

Actually I think Jane Curtain was sole anchor for one season back in the 70s.

I think Miami season 2 was all parties and fighting without very much delving into each housewives individual lives. And I think Miami season 3 seems the complete opposite, as if it is trying to evoke the format of Real Housewives of Orange County's first 3 seasons. I think producers should look at season 4 of OC, season 3 of NY, and season 3 of Atlanta for all how to balance out the drama with the look at the lives of the individual housewives.

I do like that we are seeing Joanna's friends, that don't involve just the housewives. It reminds me that these women have lives outside of the housewife show and makes the show seem more reality then scripted.

I remember in OC's season 3, we saw Lauri hang out with non-housewives and I don't think we had any housewives as her bridesmaids. Plus, she didn't invite all of the housewives to her wedding (Poor Quinn.. not even considered a housewife by the housewives themselves... it's no wonder Andy Cohen never mentions her LOL).

So if Alexis and Gretchen are both leaving RHOC... who will Tamra and Vicki pick on? Lydia? A new housewife?