titan1978

I think part of what happened was Frons felt GH was strong enough with JFP and Guza. But look at AMC and OLTL- I think they assumed it was nearing the end within the decade and he left all those EP’s in place even when he burned through HW on AMC. Although I do think he fired Guza and then was fired himself.

Riche herself has said she should have left sooner. Two shows was too much, and the main show had been troubled for a bit before she left. She and Guza were allegedly not getting along, the show was very dark (nothing like it would be later though), and the interim HW team wasn’t exciting ABC. It just should have been someone else besides JFP. I truly do not know who at that point I would have given the show to. I do think Ed Scott would have been a better fit at GH than DAYS, but I also have a hard time imagining him there.

I think there was a lot of good material from the time Vanessa returned through a few years too. The contagion sweeps event, Metro Court, Scrubs and the refocus on the hospital, Laura waking up from her coma, the younger set of characters. A lot of good stuff happened then. What I remember is by the end of the Text Message Killer storyline I pretty much gave up on the show again. When I did want to watch, like when JJ was back as Lucky, or for Brenda’s return, the entire show was so dark and dreary and Sonny centric that I didn’t find much to enjoy. I had a lot of fun when Frank and Ron first arrived, until Robin’s return story finished. Killing off AJ again, the fluke mess, Stafford being cast…yeah it was a mess.

I kind of agree that the last time I truly enjoyed every aspect of the show was 1996. When Guza came back the writing improved dramatically, and there were many great storylines and time periods after 96. But that was the last time I enjoyed every story, every pairing, and was really excited to watch the show.

Clink/Boom always read to me as pure Guza. It was cool to see MVJ’s comments. That he had the ending in mind and now they all had to help get there. A credit to that writing team that it was a true twist, and a lot of character development happened to lead us there, and it also seemed like a natural outcome. I recently rewatched Guza’s first year (well he almost made it a year before Sunset Beach pulled him away), and so much happens all around, not just with Sonny/Brenda. I mean look at Laura- in like 7 months she and Luke went through a murder trial (Damian Smith), Lulu’s illness, the Nikolas reveal and return of the Cassadines.

Clink/Boom anniversary was this week too. Great insight posted by MVJ.

Andrea Evans is just so much fun to watch as Tina.

Another incredible anniversary! This was such a fantastic episode.

I know this lured me back after the horrible way Genie Francis was written out and several other terrible story directions when Pratt/Guza arrived. Everything was kind of a mess until VM’s return.

Meg became outsized in importance because she was a source of conflict, both direct and underlying, for Greg, Karen and Mack. And much like Michael on GH, it wore thin very quickly, and yet still went on and on. And then the grandmother arrived to make another story about Meg. I truly think what was missing was Lucy visiting at least one more time and just flat out deciding her parents and their life was just too boring for her, and telling them so. Maybe almost hooking up with lets say Kenny and embarrassing Valene. I also think it could have added some poignance for Gary and Val that their daughter was influenced more by JR than by them.

I was just thinking what a waste sticking Olivia with Harold was before you posted this. One of my least favorite pairings. I do not find Diana that compelling, never did. But I think it would have been nice to see her a few more times over the later seasons. Its so rare for a show to capture teenage angst without going too far into bratty. It also takes a really skilled younger performer to pull it off. Once they go too bratty, they almost always cut their losses.

Well, not so continuous that it stopped Donna Mills from getting a very flattering shorter haircut between seasons.

They did a fantastic job with Gary/Val/Ben/Abby. I genuinely wanted Gary and Abby to stay together and Val and Ben. I prefer them in those pairings, even if I also am a fan of the longing and history of Gary/Val. It does suck that Cathy and Gary no longer share much after this storyline. He would have been a natural source of antagonism and jealousy for Joshua had their friendship at least continued on more prominently.

The only two natural places I could see Richard are as Abby’s scheming lawyer or someone working for Sumner. And both placements kind of ice out Laura. And of the two, I prefer Constance and Laura. And I loved Abby’s rapport with her lawyer in season 5. They both bring an element of sardonic wit to their portrayals. And I really did miss Laura. This might be blasphemy, but I could have taken more seasons of Laura instead of what we did get for Valene. Its so funny to me that I also didn’t watch the show as it was airing back then. I was watching the more hip programming on NBC (LA LAW, Hill Street Blues). I caught episodes airing I think on TBS one summer when I was not in classes, it was almost the end of the show and I got really hooked in by what turned out to be the last 8 or so episodes. They even aired the special that happened just before the final episode. I fell in love with Abby even then, only in a couple of episodes and the special. Then it all started over again with season 1, and I got to see the classic storylines thanks to my VCR timer!

I love that interpretation, and it adds to the character’s backstory from before she arrived. Abby has an entire past that was not as explored as it could have been. I kind of wish we had gotten an origin season with implications for the present like we get with Mack/Anne. We know she is frustrated because she has all this talent and intelligence and feels unfulfilled as time went on before she was with Gary. Knots has the best set of characters by far during this period. They cut the right people and invested in the best new characters, minus Richard, who I think could have still had a place on the show. Although would Laura have been given the excellent development she received this season if Richard was still there?

It’s not as if Star Trek is the only property Paramount Plus has. I’m sure they take way more subscription losses when a season of Drag Race ends than any of their Star Trek shows. Im really looking forward to this season of Picard. It will be especially nice to see Dr.Crusher again, hopefully with something real to do.

At the time I liked that when Laura was slipping back into her catatonic state that she “remembered” that she did not kill Rick. It gave Lulu a story tied to Laura. I was hoping it would lead to Laura actually returning back then but that didn’t happen. Scotty being the killer was just as unfortunate as the whole storyline ended up being. Ned did have more to do than Mac or Tony, but still felt cast aside to me at a certain point. And I forgot about Skye/Rae and Alan. But again, what should have been centered on him even a little felt more centered on Skye. A way to bring her on the show and then not fully explore Alan’s side of things. I actually liked her as a Q though. The last I can recall for Tony being involved in with any impact- the horrible endgame storyline working with Helena, and then his death scenes with Lucas coming out. It is a miracle JFP survived that storyline as EP, it was a disaster on every level.

I think you can throw Ned on that list too. Guza (especially during JFP) kind of lumped all the Q’s together. They became the two days a week crew, and often their stories revolved around Jason, Emily, or Tracy and her kids (especially Dillon and Georgie/Lulu). Or just scenes of the entire family arguing. Luke being moved into their orbit gave them more screen time, but they were shells of their former glory. Once Tony kidnapped Michael and Carly shot him in open court his days were numbered as far as having an actual story. He stomped around complaining about the dangers of Sonny, but the show was so clearly written from Sonny’s perspective that he was painted as the bad guy long after he actually did anything awful to anybody. I can even remember Jackie Zeman saying that she hoped Bobbie and Tony would eventually reunite because that was the trajectory Monty set them on and she wanted that redemption for them and felt that was who Bobbie was supposed to be with. Same thing happened with Alan- once the drug storyline wrapped up he wasn’t driving his own story again as far as I can remember. To this day I think the loss of Alan Q was a huge mistake. Tony I can take or leave.

I had blocked that out for many reasons. Terry Brock- never more than a solid c player, no matter how hard they tried. But there used to be room on soaps for characters like Terry.

I remember reading that he was almost fired a couple of times. Once during Monty, but she changed her mind after audience response (I think he was in a coma?). Tony was always someone that things happened to, not often in charge of his own destiny. Back then that made him stand out, because pretty much every other character, especially the men, were action oriented or otherwise in control. Tony was like a classic heroine that kept having his heart broken or afflicted with various ailments. He was blind for a period of time, a couple of comas, lol. Nobody was as unlucky in love. And he was often judgmental and unforgiving.

I think Tony suffered from always being connected to someone more dynamic. First Frisco, then Lucy, then Bobbie. He was a solid supporting player, and I didn’t really pay much attention to him until Labine got there. She really gave him incredible material to work with. And Guza took the pieces that were left and took him on a really dark journey. The problem was he had no interest in Tony to either further explore that darkness to the ultimate ending or help him heal. They kind of half-assed the whole thing. I loved his relationship with Laura during the Labine era. The had a good friendship.

Season five has a momentum and excitement that is just wonderful. And I absolutely agree with @Vee about Abby. Until Greg, she is not exposed to this kind of power while having any of her own. Sure she has money now, but she’s married to Gary, not JR. And she wants it all. As she says about Gary- half a fortune is half a fortune. The show and Donna Mills wisely leave her humanity intact, and allow her to have many facets. I easily believe the Abby of this time and place loves Gary, even as she plots around and against him. The Abby of the end of the show, while still as delicious and complex, I just do not see her as ever loving that way again. I think the constant pull of Val on Gary plays a part in how much she can love again later too.

About GH- I have always been under the impression that it was everything all at once- Tom Donovan had stabilized ratings when he arrived and also modernized the equipment and spent money on the bts aspect of the show (both Denise Alexander and Leslie Charleson have mentioned this) Going from 30 to 45 minutes destabilized things again, causing ratings decline and poor storyline direction. Doug Marland was hired as HW, creating some new characters and refocusing existing storylines. ABC takes a meeting with Gloria and the legendary the show was going to be cancelled at the end of the next cycle became legend. It was also going to expand to 1 hour. According to GH people that were on/at the show at the time there is some truth to this. She watched the show, gave notes, and finally agreed to take over when they let her have a wide amount of creative control. She tossed out shows and reshot them with more drama focused direction, more urgency. I always took the story to be ABC felt the show was creatively running on empty as well as ratings decline. It was in rough shape for them as they were also hoping to expand. I have no doubt that if the Monty revolution had failed, the show would have probably been replaced. Maybe not at 13 weeks, but possibly within a year to allow development time.

Thank you for posting that @SFK! Now that I have seen more of Nancy Pinkerton I do love her Dorian. But Robin did embody that charm that made Dorian fun to watch as Erika said, even if she was truly screwing Viki over.

She really does do stellar work in this storyline. Karen is a raw nerve and ML doesn’t hide the ugliness Karen is going through. Reading @Veethoughts it’s interesting to see where things started vs where they are going. Abby is a perfect example. We see her trajectory to where she is now. She’s had a taste of autonomy and power, and at times this season almost seems desperate to hang onto any power at all. She walks a tightrope that in later seasons is more nuanced (even with the twins). Here she is directly at some of her most villainous behavior- Cathy, Apalune, Wolfbridge. Her fascination with Greg. She almost loses everything, and is never again so out of control on all fronts of her life that I can remember. And Gary, seasons 4-6 really are the best for Gary. We see real growth and maturity and he has great material to work with. I’ve watched a lot of Dallas, and I know they are different types of shows. Knots always interests me more because there are actual stories with human emotions and stakes intermingled with the larger than life aspects. I think Knots balances it better and gives their cast much deeper material to work on. Lotus Point is one of my favorite soap business storylines of all time. From the introduction it is so intricately plotted out and developed over years. Much more than Empire Valley later on.