WTF!!!!!

EXCLUSIVE: Here is a great holiday gift for soap fans: I’ve learned that Prospect Park has revived its plan to continue cancelled ABC daytime dramas All My Children and One Life To Live online. I hear the company behind USA hit Royal Pains has inked deals with SAG-AFTRA and DGA for the soaps’ production, eyed to begin in the first quarter of 2013.

http://www.deadline....ine-web-series/

I found the Todd denouement interesting at the time as I was fascinated with the whole Lord saga of secrets, but VERY early on, I could sense that he was now devouring the show. TPTB were entirely too generous to Todd and to RH for that matter. Had he had his Tina moment then stepped aside, fine, but his affects have been so long lasting and they let him commit the unholiest of holies, which was to make Viki take a back seat and look foolish all the while. I realize that we human beings have our issues and hangups, but Viki affording Todd so many second chances, justified by her daddy issues, just didn't ring true to me. Maybe that's my issue, maybe I didn't want to accept this particular weakness of Viki's, but it felt less character driven and more driven by committee to keep Todd on top. Didn't like.

It troubles me that they're signing actors without any writing team in place. I think they need union writers, but even beyond that, this sequence of events seems backwards, especially in this scaled back version of soaps where fewer characters are going to be featured. I would think the opposite path - locking in writers first, and then letting them have a say in which actors to bring back - would have the potential for stronger storytelling, because the people crafting the plots would feel more strongly about the canvas they're working with.

As for who the writers should be, that's pretty much impossible for me to say. Obviously, Agnes Nixon, who said ten years ago she no longer had the stamina to function as head writer on a longterm basis, is not a viable choice. All of the genre's other best writers are either no longer with us or were driven out of the industry by network interference. The veteran writers who stayed have seemingly sold their souls, and I find it hard to believe their cynicism and desperation can be unlearned. Those few new writers who were allowed to break out of the pack in recent years, no matter how much promise they may have initially shown, I think picked up a style of storytelling, no doubt to adapt to the pressure they were under for gimmicks and shock value, that would ultimately be destructive to a nascent creation like this. However, I disagree that bringing in someone from outside the soap genre would likely be successful.

Regarding the Linda Gottlieb comparisons, I'm not a fan, but trying to be as objective as possible, weren't her first months at OLTL not so great by nearly all accounts? I didn't watch until years later, but I've read that she initially toyed around with short-arc stories/short-term characters...wasn't her first major story about some random neighbor of Viki's who was a battered woman, and Viki and friends wringing their hands and trying to get her help? Wasn't it about six months before the first big ratings-grabbing/critically acclaimed stunt - Megan's death - and then didn't Malone acknowledge later in interviews that he failed to take Agnes Nixon's advice and plan something to follow that up with that built upon that momentum so viewers would stay tuned in?

My guess is this venture is getting one shot at whatever publicity the resurrection of these shows that have a place in pop culture will bring. They need to hit the ground running, or nobody will care. If the first "arc" ends up being all about Angie stoically holding the hand of some random hospital patient nobody ends up liking, then their best shot at success will have been wasted. In many ways, this format will be new territory for any writer, but I think someone with experience writing for these characters and the daytime audience has a better shot at getting it right, if they're actually talented and not burnt out.

A happy medium might be the best bet, something like the executive producer choices actually: up and coming writers who care about and have learned something from the genre, but whose egoes aren't invested in validating what their work amounted to at the end of the TV era, under admittedly impossible circumstances. Unfortunately, I don't know that anyone will have any way of knowing if they made the right choices until the finished product is completed.

As far as Foz McDermott, I actually don't think this guy compares that disfavorably to Gottlieb based on his resume. In her day, a daytime TV show getting a producer with solid - though by no means stellar - movie credentials was a feather in its cap. But at least on the production side, this venture needs someone who knows new media, and he has varied experiences that suggest that he might. I'm also not put off by his blog posts per se, in fact he comes across to me as a nice and down to earth guy. What does trouble me is that I feel like he should be using social media more effectively to communicate things that might scare off some future employers/clients, so that he can filter for different audiences. For a person heading up something like this, I would think being able to do a better job of influencing what happens when someone Googles you would be a job requirement.

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by DeliaIrisFan

Hadn't Agnes pretty much checked out on OLTL by the time the creative herpes known as Todd infected the show? Has she ever discussed that character or story? I'd be intrigued to see her thoughts.

Malone did do some consulting with her early on (mainly to get pre 80s history since their plan of action was to return OLTL to its pre Rauch roots of romance and social issues and diversity, feeling Rauch had gone as far as he could go in the campier rich white direction) and for the AIDS story. From the Paley Center interview done in 1987 Agnes basically says that OLTL is doing really well and implies in her polite way that Rauch doesn't like her involved. But in the Brandon Buzz great radio interview with Susan Bedsow Horgan from a few years back, Horgan also mentions her, Malone and Griffith went to Nixon to ask for advice about Vicki's DID story and also to sorta get approval for making Victor such a monster (something I know some Nixon fans claim she would never do, and from what Horgan says, she seemed to think Nixon wouldn't approve of)--unless Horgan's a big liar she said, much to their surprise she was thrilled with the idea and had a bunch of ideas of her own.

Otherwise I get the impression with One Life she did leave it to their own devices, but was eager and willing to help consult if anyone asked (I know for a while--early 90s--she was official consultant for all of ABC Daytime). But she definitely kept much closer to Loving and especially AMC where, from what Hal Corley said, she would go to as many story meetings she could and give her thumbs up or down--though there were chunks like the early 2000s when she was nursing her husband she was less available--and of course she flat out said in the AMC tribut ebook last year that after a few months Pratt barred her completely from story meetings. I get the impression that for much of that time--especially once Frons came in, her opinion meant a lot less and if an exec or HW wanted a story and Nixon said no, they happily would overule her, but it sounds like she always was involved at AMC in some consulting capacity.

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

True, GUIDING LIGHT transitioned from radio to television. However, it still was in production when it did so, and it still was healthy, but from a creative standpoint, and from that of followers' interest. That isn't the same as reviving two soaps that have been off the air for close to two years, and were canceled in the first place due to declining ratings.

GL was off the air on radio for over 6 months however (due partly because of that lawsuit Irna lost from the scripter who claimed he co-created it--she ultimately did win the rights for a huge at the time fee), and when it came back, and moved to New York (after Chicago it had briefly recorded in LA which Agnes did not approve of), she completely restructured it just movie a couple of characters to the new version. Yes, I know it was a different era, etc, etc, and there were dozens of radio serials at the time, but... (That's why it's a bit of a lie when people claim it was consistantly and constantly on the air since 1937).

I look at web soaps like I see independent films. There are plenty of them and while most of them suck some of them have offered moments of great creativity and every now and then one of them hits a chord. Fu@k the people who don't care. This isn't about them.

Absolutely--or look at the myriad of indie gay films in particular in the past decade which 9/10 times are TERRIBLE but there are some real gems. But it can be frustrating wading through the junk...

(And then we get to the sub sub genre of gay web soaps--though I kinda like The Outs despite the amount of navel gazing)

Still, it's apples and oranges--obviously, while I don't expect huge budgets for PP, they want and have to do something on a different scale...

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

No, I'll give her credit for extending OLTL's years and pulling the show out of the late '80's. "But," I ask myself, "at what cost?".

See I don't buy that rationale... Yes, they should have worked harder to re-introduce classic families than create new ones, but I can't see any other writers/producers at that era doing that--ABC needed and wanted a soap with buzz, and they provided that while IMHO respecting the history (to be fair, I didn't get into OLTL till 1992--while I am very well versed now ont he history and seen hundreds of hours of older clips, I'm sure that plays a part). I guess to my mind--and it's fine to disagree--I have high doubt that any other team woul have done it better--only worse.

Jamey believed that ABC were gonna do a summer series of both soaps on ABC Family

So we can basically gurantee it would have been even more focused on the younger casts.

What does trouble me is that I feel like he should be using social media more effectively to communicate things that might scare off some future employers/clients, so that he can filter for different audiences. For a person heading up something like this, I would think being able to do a better job of influencing what happens when someone Googles you would be a job requirement.

I couldn't help but smirk and smh at the sight of those first few soap-related tweets, fascinated by how I was seeing this man's life change forever before my very eyes.

They were extremely influential and important. There was no way you could go back to pre-Rauch mentality, either; it was just a very different show back then.

True, but I think they did manage to respect its history and tone enough (again, I know people disagree).

I think websoaps could be great. I just don't have any patience for 99% of them because they're virtually all zero-budget crap following an Ellen Wheeler model - 'your favorites are here, so why do we need production values, storytelling or anything that is even vaguely professional? !@#$%^&*] you, you came here to look at Crystal Chappell!'

I remember the first one with ex soap stars I really tried was... Umm Goldrush or something? I can't even remember the name for sure--but it had a lot of ATWTers. the most frustrating thing was each episode was about 2 minutes when the credits were gone. I'm all for shorter soaps, but that's simply too little--especially since I seem to recall it was done every other week...

I mean these NesCafe Gold commercials soaps felt more compelling and complete (these are the UK originals, I know they did another series for the US brand Taster's Choice with Giles--I mean Anthony Stuart Head and the woman faking US accents a few years later):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meJDrMW6mns

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

Didnt ES also say that LG as an EP was not around for the actors. Makes me think of MAB & YR

Different actors felt very differently about Gottlieb--I am sure some of them felt she was around (much like Rauch). Either way, she wasn't out doing society events--she was notorious for working very hard on the show, one reason she decided to leave after two years. If MAB had done comparable quality soap, I would have excused her. John, you weren't a fan of that era of OLTL?

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

See I don't buy that rationale... Yes, they should have worked harder to re-introduce classic families than create new ones, but I can't see any other writers/producers at that era doing that--ABC needed and wanted a soap with buzz, and they provided that while IMHO respecting the history (to be fair, I didn't get into OLTL till 1992--while I am very well versed now ont he history and seen hundreds of hours of older clips, I'm sure that plays a part). I guess to my mind--and it's fine to disagree--I have high doubt that any other team woul have done it better--only worse.

So we can basically gurantee it would have been even more focused on the younger casts.

I grew up with a much more peripheral knowledge of OLTL compared to AMC during the '80s, and it was during LG's era that I found OLTL for myself. To this day, I remain a big fan of that era leading into SBH's tenure, and for me, it remains a stand alone era before things took a less favorable turn imho. I can understand why people may not care for it, because as I just said, it truly felt like a stand alone era and I can accept that fans can take it or leave it. For me, it was pretty damn ideal, and as I often said in the daily OLTL threads, it was the strength of that era that had me so gut hooked to the show and kept me hanging on for the show's remaining years (hoping it would return to some semblance of those early-mid '90s glory days).

I've heard that from more than Jamey Giddens. The GH revival turned their heads and they want the rights back. Probably not to put on a show again, but for something to capitalize on. Frankly, I'd trust them handing the rights back off to Frank sooner than I'd trust Prospect Park with the remaining beer in my fridge.

I think they'd mainly just sit on them, frankly--they like the idea of having the rights back, but... But who knows. Are things like marketing DVDs (or at least leasing the rights) for old episodes still in their power (I assume they are?)

I've never read anything about Todd from AN's perspective. Eric and I were talking about Susan Bedsow Horgan's Brandon's Buzz interview the other day, and as folks may remember, SBH randomly named the under five frat boys one episode and fortuitously dubbed RH's character Todd Manning. They loved RH and felt the need to add a layer of redemption to, for lack of a better word, prop Todd and make him rootable, thus blood tying him to St. Viki by way of Irene/Victor. SBH said that they did in fact consult with AN about the idea of making Victor Viki's sexual abuser bringing about her DID.

Beat me to it That is funny about the coincidence of Manning. While OLTL under Carlivati was getting a bit ridiculous with tying characters he liked to past characters--it does make sense to do, and back then wasn't quite as common (even if it's always been a soap cliche).

Whenever anyone shares with the press how they ran a retcon by Ms. Nixon, the story is always an enthusiastic, "Go for it! Why not!?" Which is either, Agnes Nixon is game for anything, Agnes Nixon doesn't give a !@#$%^&*], or bullsh!t.

Right--to be honest, nobody is gonna say (true or not) that Nixon disliked their story. And Nixon, much to my frustration even if I appreciate her class, pretty much never talks bad about anyone publicly (the closest I can think of is refering to Pratt as a certain writer who was writing a style of show that was plot driven and not how she would write it, and mentioned being barred from the writing room--but she didn't dwell on it). Since I endlessly refer to Corley, I will once more, and he said at least in his time there (working for McT and LB) Agnes would be very firm and quick to turn down ideas she disliked. But by the Frons era if not even a bit before, her word was no longer taken as that of God's, and there's not much else you can do. In the A&E Biography of AMC filmed around 2002 I believe with Culliton you see a bit of her in the writing room talking about some story points.

The fact that apparently Agnes liked the idea of revisiting Vicki's DID and making Victor evil (although I hope she never gave her approval for making him rise from the dead some years later) also kinda proves how silly it is when any of us (and yes, I do this too) suggest that stories they dislike are ones Agnes must have hated or even fought against, and ones they do like must have had her input. Though for the record, while many fans hated it, to me it makes sense. I didn't grow up with Victor, but I know for a fact that often perpetrators of abuse, incest or worse, are people who rarely display those traits outside of the situation. Shouldn't more people be amazed that he spent a huge fortune and amount of man power building an underground secret city?

(And of course even St Aggie has come up with, and probably approved of, some terrible story ideas, some of which prob looked great on paper, and some that just never should have come up...)

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

I realize that the folks at PP proved themselves to be !@#$%^&*]-ups last go round, but I don't quite understand the vitriol for a company that at least tried. Do I hate the doctor who tried to save my loved one's life but was unsuccessful or do I sit and stew about a hospital full of doctors who never thought to try?

Edited January 9, 201312 yr by SFK

I found the Todd denouement interesting at the time as I was fascinated with the whole Lord saga of secrets, but VERY early on, I could sense that he was now devouring the show. TPTB were entirely too generous to Todd and to RH for that matter. Had he had his Tina moment then stepped aside, fine, but his affects have been so long lasting and they let him commit the unholiest of holies, which was to make Viki take a back seat and look foolish all the while. I realize that we human beings have our issues and hangups, but Viki affording Todd so many second chances, justified by her daddy issues, just didn't ring true to me. Maybe that's my issue, maybe I didn't want to accept this particular weakness of Viki's, but it felt less character driven and more driven by committee to keep Todd on top. Didn't like.

I think the "redemption" initially showed promise--and I admit at the time I liked it. It's more what it became (and continued to become under diferent writers) where, as you say, people began to bend over backwards to excuse him of anything. That's been something that semed to infect soaps around that era in general, but Todd is perhaps the key example. (I know others have traced it back at least to the 80s with characters like Steinbeck on ATWT but, that's slightly different). It really got ridiculous when we had stories recently like Vicki cutting Tina out of her life (and Tina never explaining that she kept quite about Tess because her own daughter's life was threatened) and then still excusing Todd.

It troubles me that they're signing actors without any writing team in place. I think they need union writers, but even beyond that, this sequence of events seems backwards, especially in this scaled back version of soaps where fewer characters are going to be featured. I would think the opposite path - locking in writers first, and then letting them have a say in which actors to bring back - would have the potential for stronger storytelling, because the people crafting the plots would feel more strongly about the canvas they're working with.

We don't really know about writers--they could have been approached and due to issues (like the WGA stuff) have been told to keep quiet. The last go around, a team was assembled for AMC and told not to announced anything (and maybe writers--Carliati aside--just aren't as twitter happy as actors).

Also, at this point, while your point is wise, I think it's equally wise to try to see who from the old cast you CAN get back and then build from there. Otherwise, why reboot?

As for who the writers should be, that's pretty much impossible for me to say. Obviously, Agnes Nixon, who said ten years ago she no longer had the stamina to function as head writer on a longterm basis, is not a viable choice. All of the genre's other best writers are either no longer with us or were driven out of the industry by network interference. The veteran writers who stayed have seemingly sold their souls, and I find it hard to believe their cynicism and desperation can be unlearned. Those few new writers who were allowed to break out of the pack in recent years, no matter how much promise they may have initially shown, I think picked up a style of storytelling, no doubt to adapt to the pressure they were under for gimmicks and shock value, that would ultimately be destructive to a nascent creation like this. However, I disagree that bringing in someone from outside the soap genre would likely be successful.

Would some of these writers who were turned off by all the network demands be willing to try again at a venue where they'd probably get less interference (and less money)?

Regarding the Linda Gottlieb comparisons, I'm not a fan, but trying to be as objective as possible, weren't her first months at OLTL not so great by nearly all accounts? I didn't watch until years later, but I've read that she initially toyed around with short-arc stories/short-term characters...wasn't her first major story about some random neighbor of Viki's who was a battered woman, and Viki and friends wringing their hands and trying to get her help? Wasn't it about six months before the first big ratings-grabbing/critically acclaimed stunt - Megan's death - and then didn't Malone acknowledge later in interviews that he failed to take Agnes Nixon's advice and plan something to follow that up with that built upon that momentum so viewers would stay tuned in?

Largely yes. But even Gottlieb (who clearly has an ego) has said she was learning and made mistakes. To be fair the death of Megan did directly lead into their first major story (where many think they first came around even if it did involve an outside character)--the inolvement of Andrew, Marty who had Lupus like Megan led directly into Marty's jealousy of Andrew and saying he molested Billy which led to Billy's coming out and the whole AIDS story and to Vicki and Sloan, etc.

And Megan's death was about four months into Malone's run--not that it makes a big diff. He was hired in Aug 91, his material began airing in Sep, and she died in Jan...

Malone and Giottlieb were learning. When Griffith who had soap structuring instincts joined Malone pretty soon after things really did gel--Gottlieb decided to hire him for that reason. I think that was a smart decision, and one you'd rarely see nowadays. They also hired Bedsow Horgan because of her huge history being on writing and production teams for PNG soaps to be on the writer's side for the same reason. To me that's actually quite a quick turnaround towards success for what was an extremely troubled soap, by a very novice soap team and hardly something to discredit them (while it does prove not everything Gottlieb did was great of course). While not as stylish, i think the show stayed strong, with the DID story, etc, under Bedsow Horgan as EP (Gottlieb appointed her as her successor), but when Josh Griffith left by his own choosing less than a year later, Horgan says she basically replaced him as co-headwriter while being EP and admits in the interview that it was a huge conflict of interest and the show quickly suffered (think Malone's never ending Italian mob thing, etc).

My guess is this venture is getting one shot at whatever publicity the resurrection of these shows that have a place in pop culture will bring. They need to hit the ground running, or nobody will care. If the first "arc" ends up being all about Angie stoically holding the hand of some random hospital patient nobody ends up liking, then their best shot at success will have been wasted. In many ways, this format will be new territory for any writer, but I think someone with experience writing for these characters and the daytime audience has a better shot at getting it right, if they're actually talented and not burnt out.

I agree. They need something to really pop in the first arcs for each show. Maybe if Agnes is involved enough she's helping do the initial setups.

As far as Foz McDermott, I actually don't think this guy compares that disfavorably to Gottlieb based on his resume. In her day, a daytime TV show getting a producer with solid - though by no means stellar - movie credentials was a feather in its cap. But at least on the production side, this venture needs someone who knows new media, and he has varied experiences that suggest that he might. I'm also not put off by his blog posts per se, in fact he comes across to me as a nice and down to earth guy. What does trouble me is that I feel like he should be using social media more effectively to communicate things that might scare off some future employers/clients, so that he can filter for different audiences. For a person heading up something like this, I would think being able to do a better job of influencing what happens when someone Googles you would be a job requirement.

Agreed on all accounts. He seems to know new media, which is why I assume he was chosen. But yeah, his name is now out there, he should be careful with what first comes out when you google.