17 hours ago, GL95 said:

I don't even know what I want, but this Roger/Jenna Spaulding takeover is weirdly just a bunch of client poaching between Lewis and Spaulding and not a lot of fun. It coming in the immediate aftermath of Maureen's death with no Alex on the scene just makes it so there's really no true adversary for Roger to lord this over at this point. AM and I guess Henry are about as close as it gets, but AM is such a sad sack between the divorce and having only Nick as Spaulding family that there's not much fun in Roger lording anything over someone who never had power in the first place. Vanessa just moving back to Lewis Oil and Henry hanging out with her just makes this thing feel so low stakes right now, though I actually like the scrappy upstart Journal stuff as I think Rick Hearst/VI are both talented enough actors that they play the push/pull of AM/Nick well and have a good chemistry.

I had a feeling that had Bev not quit a year earlier then expected, that Alex would have been around during the fight for Spaulding.

To me, some of the elements were being put in place during the summer of 1992 (after Fiona opted to extend her stay past the initial 3 month stint she was hired for) with Jenna meeting Roger, Jenna blackmailing Alex to drop the charges against her, and Jenna's immigration situation came up.. which set up her quest to find her father.

I think Alex being gone for the original 6 to 8 weeks would have made share-holders nervous about the future of the company.. and that would have been the opening for Roger to take advantage of.

I'm sure that once Bev officially quit, the show had to work to rewrite/plan certain things... but I truly believe that Alex's next story would have been her fighting Roger/Jenna in the Spaulding take over story.

5 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I had a feeling that had Bev not quit a year earlier then expected, that Alex would have been around during the fight for Spaulding.

To me, some of the elements were being put in place during the summer of 1992 (after Fiona opted to extend her stay past the initial 3 month stint she was hired for) with Jenna meeting Roger, Jenna blackmailing Alex to drop the charges against her, and Jenna's immigration situation came up.. which set up her quest to find her father.

I think Alex being gone for the original 6 to 8 weeks would have made share-holders nervous about the future of the company.. and that would have been the opening for Roger to take advantage of.

I'm sure that once Bev officially quit, the show had to work to rewrite/plan certain things... but I truly believe that Alex's next story would have been her fighting Roger/Jenna in the Spaulding take over story.

I can see that-I feel like they were setting up her being distracted/blinded by Nick to lead to something bad happening. She was both distant from the company and also she was creating a ticking time bomb with AM as I think she was simultaneously underestimating what he might do while overestimating how far she could push him.

18 minutes ago, GL95 said:

When I first started watching 1990 eps it was striking how much more integrated the Spauldings were to the community as a whole. Maureen was the heart for sure, but Bev’s Alex was the ultimate insider who ran the town in many ways. The Spaulding mansion stopped being the center of “high society” after she left and it really impacted how the town felt like a community too.

Yes. Guiding Light for the most part lost its community vibe and umbrella storylines by the mid 1990s. 1993 starts the wobbling with Buzz' introduction and inane, pointless WTF characters such as MacCauley West (whom you are about to run into if you haven't already).

What Guiding Light never did well, IMO, is to introduce big important characters (Alex, Buzz) or bring back important characters from the past (Alan, Roger). I don't like "reveal" storylines at all, especially when done via some masquerade ball, wedding, etc. Having Alan reappear in a mask at a ball (with no one immediately being able to identify him) or having Roger run round in a mask for months on an island were really poor ideas. Having Roger swing from a vine at Phillip's wedding to usher in his reappearance in Springfield?! The Mr. Tashawa story in 1994? All were horrendous.

10 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Yes. Guiding Light for the most part lost its community vibe and umbrella storylines by the mid 1990s. 1993 starts the wobbling with Buzz' introduction and inane, pointless WTF characters such as MacCauley West (whom you are about to run into if you haven't already).

What Guiding Light never did well, IMO, is to introduce big important characters (Alex, Buzz) or bring back important characters from the past (Alan, Roger). I don't like "reveal" storylines at all, especially when done via some masquerade ball, wedding, etc. Having Alan reappear in a mask at a ball (with no one immediately being able to identify him) or having Roger run round in a mask for months on an island were really poor ideas. Having Roger swing from a vine at Phillip's wedding to usher in his reappearance in Springfield?! The Mr. Tashawa story in 1994? All were horrendous.

Not quite the same but similar, I couldn't believe how long they dragged out Nick being "revealed" as Alex's son. It is a pretty consistent theme-I remember Dinah thinking Hart was a private investigator for a really, really long time. And of course the Reva Amish storyline that still somehow dragged out for months even after Reva comes to Springfield where she is "revealed" at a ball.

It's actually kind of amazing that they didn't have Lucy just hang out with AM for months before she linked up with Buzz. They even had Buzz fully admit she was his daughter immediately when she showed up at the diner without dragging it out, though I suppose she was both there for AM and to try to soften Buzz so him lying about her would not achieve the second purpose.

14 minutes ago, GL95 said:

I can see that-I feel like they were setting up her being distracted/blinded by Nick to lead to something bad happening. She was both distant from the company and also she was creating a ticking time bomb with AM as I think she was simultaneously underestimating what he might do while overestimating how far she could push him.

Soaplovers' right on target here. Having Alex away for two months to "find herself" would present a window of opportunity for Roger to go after Spaulding, what with Alan, Phillip and Amanda also MIA. And, as you say, having Roger woo AM (especially after Alex hands the keys to Vanessa...why the hell would AM want to stay around?) Of course, Vanessa would slow Roger down, but maybe not stop him as Vanessa cannot always enact policy as a Spaulding would, simply because she isn't one. Vanessa's hesitancy to act would be a logical occurrence, especially in early 1993 (Maureen's death).

Conversely, if Vanessa did always enact policy, and made some serious mistakes in judgment, that in itself would make for some very interesting long-term business story prospects that affect everyone in town. (There's your next umbrella story- a corporate/employment/where do my loyalties lie type of thing).

I've spent zero time thinking about any of this, but man o man, it's tempting to dig in.

Whoaaaa....an idea here. Re-introduce Bradley Raines (Rebhorn) as Rogers' co-conspirator in bringing down Spaulding Enterprises. That would be aces.

Then, of course, you have Bradley turning on Roger, in a pseudo replay of Alan/Roger from the late 1970s/early 80s. Have Roger be the one defending turf. Maybe have Bradley make a play for Holly.

6 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Soaplovers' right on target here. Having Alex away for two months to "find herself" would present a window of opportunity for Roger to go after Spaulding, what with Alan, Phillip and Amanda also MIA. And, as you say, having Roger woo AM (especially after Alex hands the keys to Vanessa...why the hell would AM want to stay around?) Of course, Vanessa would slow Roger down, but maybe not stop him as Vanessa cannot always enact policy as a Spaulding would, simply because she isn't one. Vanessa's hesitancy to act would be a logical occurrence, especially in early 1993 (Maureen's death).

Conversely, if Vanessa did always enact policy, and made some serious mistakes in judgment, that in itself would make for some very interesting long-term business story prospects that affect everyone in town. (There's your next umbrella story- a corporate/employment/where do my loyalties lie type of thing).

I've spent zero time thinking about any of this, but man o man, it's tempting to dig in.

The Nick "I'm on the board as a reporter!" thing could've come into play if Vanessa either made a mistake or did something that Nick decided was sketchy. Even better, have Roger or AM plant bait for Nick to run with and have Nick blow things up without doing enough research because his arrogance wins out. Vanessa quits in disgust since Nick's journalism career is in flames and he has a sudden interest in pursuing being the heir apparent.

With the AM element, not only was Van in charge which AM for a hot minute was at peace with learning/waiting when he thought Nick wasn't Alex's son, but they laid the groundwork that Alex's plan was basically to have AM work alongside Nick for awhile to groom his eventual replacement as the heir apparent (which is a bit funny again with the timelines of the ages because Nick should be what, at least 15 years older than AM?).

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by GL95

16 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Whoaaaa....an idea here. Re-introduce Bradley Raines (Rebhorn) as Rogers' co-conspirator in bringing down Spaulding Enterprises. That would be aces.

Then, of course, you have Bradley turning on Roger, in a pseudo replay of Alan/Roger from the late 1970s/early 80s. Have Roger be the one defending turf. Maybe have Bradley make a play for Holly.

It would certainly invoke the specter of Phillip as well, which even without Phillip it would give Lillian something to do. Though this does really fit into the thoughts of a Spaulding Next Generation with no Alex/Alan on the scene at all and Phillip/AM being the central figures.

6 hours ago, alwaysAMC said:

Ed and Maureen wanting to go to Hamp's to watch the Super Bowl (or maybe some other important game)! Watching Hamp in a scene where he isn't reduced to playing a saxophone is amazing. I don't know who the lady he's with is, but it's cute. Then my favorite scene of the episode - Hamp, Ed, Ross, Fletcher and Billy watching the football game together. These are scenes I want to see more of. Bonding, friendship and realistic stuff.

Most importantly, @P.J. - Henry calling Jenna "Jen", and treating her like a daughter. Vanessa, looking way too overdressed, seeming way too upset with Henry's feelings for Jenna haha. Gosh I miss Henry, what a sweet man. Oh and this is when Billy was there...

Ohh and a note that Lillian left Ed!

No Reva. No Josh. And I loved this episode. GL was and could have been GL without them.

Wait till you see Hamp's bachelor party. The entire episode is the guys, it's hilarious.

The girl Hamp is with is his daughter Kat, played by Nia Long. I loved Hamp.

Vanessa isn't overdressed---although coming from the era you've watched, I can understand your reaction. Vanessa was always dressed to perfection in the before times. Right now she's president of Spaulding. Though this is kind of the start of the "let's turn Van into a JFP clone" era and she starts being swathed in extra fabric. Van didn't usually do turtlenecks. And YES...Vanessa is still a bit jelly when Henry lavishes attention on his substitute daughter figures. She did not take the news of Henry claiming to have fathered Jenna well----at all.

I see there's a bit of tension between Fletch and Billy. It's after Van dumped Fletch. :D and fun fact---that gathering? Aside from Hamp, Van's had all of them.

The Reva-less Era? PERFECTION. It's not even until Buzz shows up that it ever feels like one character is eating the show.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by P.J.

6 minutes ago, GL95 said:

The Nick "I'm on the board as a reporter!" thing could've come into play if Vanessa either made a mistake or did something that Nick decided was sketchy. Even better, have Roger or AM plant bait for Nick to run with and have Nick blow things up without doing enough research because his arrogance wins out. Vanessa quits in disgust since Nick's journalism career is in flames and he has a sudden interest in pursuing being the heir apparent.

Devious is great for a soap! Like this especially: "Even better, have Roger or AM plant bait for Nick to run with and have Nick blow things up without doing enough research because his arrogance wins out." Love that set-up. Love that it's Nick who unwittingly blows things up. That's really rather fantastic. Upon her return, perhaps Momma Alex is no longer so keen to call Nick her son.

That said, Nick doesn't have the chops to run a lemonade stand.

Besides, having Roger run behemoth Spaulding into the ground would take a year or two. Companies can run on nothing more than inertia for a year or two easily. I could see Roger rather appreciating that, as it gives him time to destroy not only the company, but run the Spaulding name into the ground.

4 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Devious is great for a soap! Like this especially: "Even better, have Roger or AM plant bait for Nick to run with and have Nick blow things up without doing enough research because his arrogance wins out." Love that set-up. Love that it's Nick who unwittingly blows things up. That's really rather fantastic. Upon her return, perhaps Momma Alex is no longer so keen to call Nick her son.

That said, Nick doesn't have the chops to run a lemonade stand.

Besides, having Roger run behemoth Spaulding into the ground would take a year or two. Companies can run on nothing more than inertia for a year or two easily. I could see Roger rather appreciating that, as it gives him time to destroy not only the company, but run the Spaulding name into the ground.

To be clear, Nick 100% has the hubris to think he can run Spaulding completely on his own but in no way does he have the chops. It's sort of funny in that period where AM is going full Spaulding that he's basically never wrong about anything, but he isn't particularly good at playing the long game so everything blows up in his face. He's just Cassandra running around going, "You see this is crazy putting a reporter on the board, right?" It's legitimately insane how Alex thinks Nick can just step in and do anything he wants, and even the fairly powerful/savvy characters like Henry/Vanessa realize they can only go so far in disagreeing with her about Nick.

12 minutes ago, GL95 said:

It would certainly invoke the specter of Phillip as well, which even without Phillip it would give Lillian something to do. Though this does really fit into the thoughts of a Spaulding Next Generation with no Alex/Alan on the scene at all and Phillip/AM being the central figures.

Lillian would have plenty to do in a secondary role in the Springfield the two of us have carved out. Imagine Lillian's role in a scenario where AM and Maureen work for Roger, where Amanda has married Ed, where Lillian tries to console/control/advise a drunk Phillip, who is now a real threat to out-of-town Beth and Lizzie. Lillian appeals to Rick, who is hesitant to help. Rick and Phillip's friendship is on the rocks. Lillian is on her own (though her past dealings with ex-hubby Bradley certainly had instilled considerable wisdom). Does Lillian press charges against Phillip?

Maybe Amanda and Lillian become co-heads of the Spaulding Foundation at Cedars. That would piss off Maureen. It would also provide Roger an opportunity to screw up Ed.

Meanwhile, Lillian's co-worker and friend Eve self-commits to an asylum, and Lillian tries to help her there. Ultimately, her efforts are for naught as Eve later commits suicide.

7 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

Lillian would have plenty to do in a secondary role in the Springfield the two of us have carved out. Imagine Lillian's role in a scenario where AM and Maureen work for Roger, where Amanda has married Ed, where Lillian tries to console/control/advise a drunk Phillip, who is now a real threat to out-of-town Beth and Lizzie. Lillian appeals to Rick, who is hesitant to help. Rick and Phillip's friendship is on the rocks. Lillian is on her own (though her past dealings with ex-hubby Bradley certainly had instilled considerable wisdom). Does Lillian press charges against Phillip?

Maybe Amanda and Lillian become co-heads of the Spaulding Foundation at Cedars. That would piss off Maureen. It would also provide Roger an opportunity to screw up Ed.

Meanwhile, Lillian's co-worker and friend Eve self-commits to an asylum, and Lillian tries to help her there. Ultimately, her efforts are for naught as Eve later commits suicide.

Drunk Phillip actually presents a potentially interesting dynamic with AM/Rick who are both the children of alcoholics. They would conceivably be drawn together to help Phillip, but also have the shared experience of knowing you can only do so much. I always enjoy the family dynamics on soaps, and I feel like AM/Rick/Phillip is something not really explored that had interesting potential. AM/Rick and AM/Phillip are actually related, but Rick/Phillip are much closer. One element of AM that I find interesting is how the show will at times mention him being half-Bauer to point out he's not all bad at heart, but most indications are that being raised by a Bauer was actually pretty sad for him in a way that really only Rick would understand.

Edited 49 minutes ago49 min by GL95

1 hour ago, Speed Racer said:

Conversely, if Vanessa did always enact policy, and made some serious mistakes in judgment, that in itself would make for some very interesting long-term business story prospects that affect everyone in town. (There's your next umbrella story- a corporate/employment/where do my loyalties lie type of thing).

There is an annoying tendency the show had of making anyone named Spaulding entitled to run Spaulding. Amanda was a music student with about two seconds of business experience before she just pushed her way to the Presidency when Alan went to jail. Phillip had a semester of college (although Alex does spend some time grooming him), and Alan Michael (at this point) had already been Roger's patsy once before Alex sets up a competition between Van and "the runt" (Van's words, not mine) for the Presidency. Vanessa was a businesswoman when A-M was born, FCOL. Now maybe it was just Alex's way of testing A-M's mettle, and maybe she knew Van wouldn't let the youngster win...but it's insulting on levels that Vanessa has to continually prove herself. Meanwhile, all a Spaulding needs is the name.

(There's also Nick and later Lizzie, but you get my point.)

There's also Van's loyalty to the Lewises at play at times, but still.

2 hours ago, Speed Racer said:

What Guiding Light never did well, IMO, is to introduce big important characters (Alex, Buzz) or bring back important characters from the past (Alan, Roger).

Well....but I love Alex's introduction. It sets her up perfectly. She's doing her own surveillance (she realizes Alan's connived with Bradley, that Phillip/Beth are in love and Alan doesn't like it, that Ross hates Alan, Alan is scheming to land Vanessa, etc) and learning all sorts of secrets that she'll use against Alan, but you also know she has affection for Alan, Phillip and Henry. As Reva says, "she's a woman to be reckoned with."

For every "big" splash and masquerade/mask, there's also AM parachuting into the Bauer barbecue, AM & Dinah crashing into pregnant Harley's car, Alan finding Reva in the middle of a massage in Tulsa, Ross being Roger's lawyer, Josh showing up as Reva wanders Springfield after her non-wedding to Kyle, Billy being the hammer to threaten Will, or Van simply showing up to hand Henry a copy of the London Times. All perfect in their own way.