No one is ever going to write in that style anymore and I think the networks would try to prevent it.

Exactly. Even if you had that kind of writer, there's no way the people in charge at the networks would ever approve of a show with that kind of style and pacing. Don't forget, there are a few Bell-trained writers still on staff. Not to mention other soap writers at other shows who wrote in the 80's/early 90's under the greats as well. Their hands are tied now - this is what the networks believe the shows should be like, and they'll be this way until they end. And if the writers currently working who worked under Marland/Curlee/Nixon/LeMay/Bell/Slesar want to keep the jobs they have, they'll conform. Or leave the industry (as so many have).

Exactly. Even if you had that kind of writer, there's no way the people in charge at the networks would ever approve of a show with that kind of style and pacing. Don't forget, there are a few Bell-trained writers still on staff. Not to mention other soap writers at other shows who wrote in the 80's/early 90's under the greats as well. Their hands are tied now - this is what the networks believe the shows should be like, and they'll be this way until they end. And if the writers currently working who worked under Marland/Curlee/Nixon/LeMay/Bell/Slesar want to keep the jobs they have, they'll conform. Or leave the industry (as so many have).

So do you think stuff like 'Chance kisses Chloe on his fourth episode' is a WRITER'S choice, or a network choice?

So do you think stuff like 'Chance kisses Chloe on his fourth episode' is a WRITER'S choice, or a network choice?

It's a writers' choice, encouraged by the network, is my guess. But who knows? This kind of thing is happening all across soaps - it's not an MAB/Y&R problem solely. Lightning speed storytelling, emotional beats missed, stunt-storytelling. It's everywhere. It's a vicious cycle. This is what the networks want, so writers conform if they want to keep their jobs, writers get in the pattern, network approves it whole-heartedly. It's just around and around the bowl, until it finally gets flushed.

So do you think stuff like 'Chance kisses Chloe on his fourth episode' is a WRITER'S choice, or a network choice?

That's clearly the writer's choice. If they wanted a fast paced storyline with a kiss, they would have waited a month or so and they could have, but the writers didn't....

It's a writers' choice, encouraged by the network, is my guess. But who knows? This kind of thing is happening all across soaps - it's not an MAB/Y&R problem solely. Lightning speed storytelling, emotional beats missed, stunt-storytelling. It's everywhere. It's a vicious cycle. This is what the networks want, so writers conform if they want to keep their jobs, writers get in the pattern, network approves it whole-heartedly. It's just around and around the bowl, until it finally gets flushed.

I'm not fully buying that in Y&R's case, Maria is both the HW and EP, and she's married to the guy who owns at least part of the show. If she wanted more autonomy for her and her writers, she could get it and her husband could challenge the network on her behalf.

Maria also spews crap in interviews about how she has a respectful relationship with CBS, but this her her show and vision.

Up until the Latham mess, Y&R still told stories the classic way they always did, sure Smith/Alden weren't Bill Bell, but they kept his structure and characteristics for the most part, and the had the backing of the Bell family and Sony.

No one seems to want to fight the network for anything anymore. They all seem to want to compromise the integrity of their vision and let the mandates on the network guide their writing.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

Maria also spews crap in interviews about how she has a respectful relationship with CBS, but this her her show and vision.

It amazes me how things people say in interviews become the badges they wear. It's a public interview. They're not going to spew venom and vitriol.

Up until the Latham mess, Y&R still told stories the classic way they always did, sure Smith/Alden weren't Bill Bell, but they kept his structure and characteristics for the most part, and the had the backing of the Bell family and Sony.

Sure - they had their backing. Until they were demoted and LML was given the mandate to change the structure. From whom? The network, Sony and the Bells. They were told the "classic" way was no longer how they wanted the show.

No one seems to want to fight the network for anything anymore. They all seem to want to compromise the integrity of their vision and let the mandates on the network guide their writing.

Well - yeah. They either do what the networks/production companies want... or they leave, and the networks/production companies find people who WILL do what they want without complaining. This isn't news.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by brimike

It amazes me how things people say in interviews become the badges they wear. It's a public interview. They're not going to spew venom and vitriol.

She doesn't have to, but if it's not true, then she shouldn't have acted like she doesn't conform to what the networks wants, especially when she's both the HW and EP and is married to the guy running the production company of the show.

Sure - they had their backing. Until they were demoted and LML was given the mandate to change the structure. From whom? The network, Sony and the Bells. They were told the "classic" way was no longer how they wanted the show.

B&B seems to be autonomous, though there, that show could clearly use some type of interference. B&B is doing what it's done for years, so I don't think the networks overrun that show like they do with the others.

I don't understand how the classic way doesn't work when this show was #1 in the ratings and in the demos. IT doesn't add up to me, but what does anymore?

Well - yeah. They either do what the networks/production companies want... or they leave, the networks/production companies find people who WILL do what they want without complaining. This isn't news.

So why isn't the network being challenged more, especially by the husband of this show's HW and EP who run the production company of the show?

I doubt MAB was Barbara Bloom and CBS's choice for a HW and EP - that's clearly all the Bell's. If the Bell's could maneuver that, surely they could or at least try to do it for story content too.

But the fact that the Bell's would leave an inexperienced HW and EP in charge of the #1 soap speaks volumes about where they stand and how badly they don't fight for excellence.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by Y&RWorldTurner

She doesn't have to, but if it's not true, then she shouldn't have acted like she doesn't conform to what the networks wants, especially when she's both the HW and EP and is married to the guy running the production company of the show.

B&B seems to be autonomous, though there, that show could clearly use some type of interference. B&B is doing what it's done for years, so I don't think the networks overrun that show like they do with the others.

I don't understand how the classic way doesn't work when this show was #1 in the ratings and in the demos. IT doesn't add up to me, but what does anymore?

So why isn't the network being challenged more, especially by the husband of this show's HW and EP who run the production company of the show?

I doubt MAB was Barbara Bloom and CBS's choice for a HW and EP - that's clearly all the Bell's. If the Bell's could maneuver that, surely they could or at least try to do it for story content too.

But the fact that the Bell's would leave an inexperienced HW and EP in charge of the #1 soap speaks volumes about where they stand and how badly they don't fight for excellence.

I know Y&R is (was) the "gold standard", but the second Bill Bell, Sr died, it became just like every other soap on the air. To believe it wasn't going to end up exactly like GL and ATWT and GH and AMC and every other soap is naive. It's a show run by committee, just like all the rest of them. And with all the pushing and pulling that happens with too many chefs in the kitchen, I'm really not sure why any of this is shocking to anyone.

And people accuse me of being an optimist. LOL!

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by brimike

It's not shocking, just hard to beleive that the HW and EP of this show that's married to the head of the production company of her show has the same limitations as the other HW and EP's in daytime, that's all.

But still in this daytime climate, The Bell's seem to keep B&B very autonomous, as opposed to other shows.

It's not shocking, just hard to beleive that the HW and EP of this show that's married to the head of the production company of her show has the same limitations as the other HW and EP's in daytime, that's all.

But still in this daytime climate, The Bell's seem to keep B&B very autonomous, as opposed to other shows.

Yeah - unfortunately, once a wall comes down, you can't put it back up again. If Brad stepped down and someone else came in as EP or HW or both (like LML did) you can bet your ass CBS would be all over them. And once they're in, there's no getting them out.

I once heard Lucy Johnson was never even allowed in Y&R or B&B meetings. But once they put in somebody connected with the network at Y&R, all bets were off. And now there's no turning back. Once Brad steps down (if he ever does), there's no way CBS will let them continue autonomously.

Edited July 22, 200916 yr by brimike

There might be no getting rid of them, but there's no no excuse for having an inexperienced HW and EP running this show. Especially one that needs TWO HW's to help plot and execute stories for her.

Surely, that wasn't the doing of CBS though, I doubt they wanted her as both the HW and EP.

If both the Bell's and CBS cared, someone with more experience would be running this show and they wouldn't be have too much power with both a producing and writing credit.

I don't know what to think anymore, nothing makes sense.

I don't know what to think anymore, nothing makes sense.

It sure doesn't.

I once heard Lucy Johnson was never even allowed in Y&R or B&B meetings.

I don't think she cared either, she seemed to be more invovled with promoting the soaps than with the story side (unless it was something too outrageous). The Bell's and PGP seemed to have more control of their shows under Johnson than they do now under Bloom.

I don't think she cared either, she seemed to be more invovled with promoting the soaps than with the story side (unless it was something too outrageous). The Bell's and PGP seemed to have more control of their shows under Johnson than they do now under Bloom.

I think you're probably right with that, from what we've seen.

LOL! I'm hard-pressed to find anybody who wouldn't agree. It's literally jumping MONTHS ahead in the story, for no apparent reason. There is SO MUCH good stuff to play with Chance. He still doesn't even know Phillip is gay. I know everybody hates TB, but for a second, let's pretend Phillip is played by a brilliant actor, for the sake of argument. I don't understand why you don't play out Chance getting to know his family again, dealing with the repercussions of what Phillip did, etc. There's NO REASON to play any romance with his character yet. Not for at least a few months. I don't even think you need to hint at it. It muddies the waters completely, and totally diverts his focus. Play the beats of a conservative military son finding out his father left him to go be gay. THAT'S your story. Romance shouldn't even be an issue at this stage of the game.

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