Back to issues...For all of the people that want to talk about issues and that support Obama. Could you debate these issues with me please?

How will Obama give tax rebates to companies that "invest" in America and on the other hand raise corporate, capital gains, income, and windfall profits taxes. By the way, now Obama says he may not raise taxes initially. Anyone know why that is?

His position on business specifically is that he will provide tax relief (eliminate all captial gains) to small business and start-ups that create jobs. And a $500 tax credit "Making Work Pay" for small business owners. This is clearly stated on BarackObama.com

There are a couple of policies that are very intriguing:

- End Tax Breaks for Companies that Send Jobs Overseas: Barack Obama believes that companies should not get billions of dollars in tax deductions for moving their operations overseas. Obama will also fight to ensure that public contracts are awarded to companies that are committed to American workers.

- Reward Companies that Support American Workers: Barack Obama introduced the Patriot Employer Act of 2007 with Senators Richard Durbin (D-IL) and Sherrod Brown (D-OH) to reward companies that create good jobs with good benefits for American workers. The legislation would provide a tax credit to companies that maintain or increase the number of full-time workers in America relative to those outside the US; maintain their corporate headquarters in America if it has ever been in America; pay decent wages; prepare workers for retirement; provide health insurance; and support employees who serve in the military.

What do you think of these policies? Do you feel that companies doing alot of offshore hiring should not be penalized in any way? Especially when they are getting huge tax breaks in this country?

Edited September 10, 200817 yr by Greg's GL

Some facts about the author of that article. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Sullivan

Andrew Sulivan, is a British Citizen.......and considers himself to be a classical libertarian conservative who is often at odds with other conservatives in the U.S.

I don't understand.

I know all about him and his personal life. What was this about? I truly don't mean anything by this, I'm just wondering.

Immigration is a tough one for me as well. I can actually see both sides of the argument and let's face it, when a country has so many illegal immigrants as we do and they are doing the jobs that a lot of Americans will not do, it makes it harder.

Here in Florida, the fern industry is huge. It blew up in the 80s after a couple of pretty cold winters destroyed the citrus crops in North Florida. Instead of replanting the citrus (which usually takes a few years to produce fruit), a lot of the land owners switched over to fern. It grows quickly and can produce profits within months. And who are the ones picking the fern? Mostly illegal immigrants.

It would be hard to find a local willing to stand around in the summer bending over to pick fern.

Another thing - after the hurricane season of 2004, when FEMA came into towns to help out, the land owners were po'd cuz the immigrants were getting food, clothing, etc from FEMA so they weren't working. They were trying to make FEMA stop handouts so the immigrants would get back to work....

Immigration is probably one of the most complex ethical issues out there right now. You know, my instinct just wants to say ship them out and be done but there's so much more involved. The labor force they provide is a needed commodity but then the reason they are so needed is because businesses avert the system to hire them and therefore aren't obligated to give them the minimum wage or any other employment benefit. I don't know how exactly I feel. I think immigrants get screwed because they have no employment protection but at the same time they can receive social program benefits even though there is no revenue from them to pay for it. Employers are fleecing the system. The workers are fleecing the system and consumers reap the benefits of it.

I guess bottom line is that I do not think criminal acts should be rewarded and illegal immigration is by definition a criminal act. Solving that is a whole other ball game. I can't criticize candidates for mixed messages here because I'm in the same boat with them.

I don't understand.

I know all about him and his personal life. What was this about? I truly don't mean anything by this, I'm just wondering.

Roman - I think the beef with him is that he's endorsed Democrats before, mostly because of social issues. He is pretty much right in line with the Republicans on other matters - fiscal, military, welfare. But he argues that the Republican party has shifted too much focus to social matters like gay marriage and abortion.

If someone feels differently, please jump in.

Immigration is probably one of the most complex ethical issues out there right now. You know, my instinct just wants to say ship them out and be done but there's so much more involved. The labor force they provide is a needed commodity but then the reason they are so needed is because businesses avert the system to hire them and therefore aren't obligated to give them the minimum wage or any other employment benefit. I don't know how exactly I feel. I think immigrants get screwed because they have no employment protection but at the same time they can receive social program benefits even though there is no revenue from them to pay for it. Employers are fleecing the system. The workers are fleecing the system and consumers reap the benefits of it.

I guess bottom line is that I do not think criminal acts should be rewarded and illegal immigration is by definition a criminal act. Solving that is a whole other ball game. I can't criticize candidates for mixed messages here because I'm in the same boat with them.

Very well said. ICAM. The impact to the economy if we were to ship out these 12 million people would be (IMO) large. But is that a reason to keep them? Like you said, they are - by definition - criminals.

Hmmmm

His position on business specifically is that he will provide tax relief (eliminate all captial gains) to small business and start-ups that create jobs. And a $500 tax credit "Making Work Pay" for small business owners. This is clearly stated on BarackObama.com

There are a couple of policies that are very intriguing:

What do you think of these policies? Do you feel that companies doing alot of offshore hiring should not be penalized in any way? Especially when they are getting huge tax breaks in this country?

Yeah, I've seen and heard the statements about the capital gains tax. It is very misleading in that small business do not usually pay capital gains taxes. They do however, pay income and payroll taxes, which Obama will increase on those that bring in $250,000 or more, which many of them do.

That's exactly where I feel the double talk stands (the $500 tax credit/ per worker). How will that even make sense when he is going to raise income and corporate tax on business?

Personally, I dont feel that any American business should be punished. The intent of the tax breaks is to bring them back. Obama's plan (to raise their taxes) IMO will drive them further out.

Edited September 10, 200817 yr by Casey008

Roman - I think the beef with him is that he's endorsed Democrats before, mostly because of social issues. He is pretty much right in line with the Republicans on other matters - fiscal, military, welfare. But he argues that the Republican party has shifted too much focus to social matters like gay marriage and abortion.

If someone feels differently, please jump in.

Crap. Now I have to go and look up the website where I saw these figures. Crap crap crap. Please excuse me because I'm going on memory here and I may have some of my information a little bit off. I have a brain like a steel sieve sometimes. UGH!

From one website the name of which I cannot remember it says that an analysis of McCain's voting record shows that the notorious 90% is a little bit misleading. If unanimous senate votes are discarded (which means items where not only McCain voted "with Bush" so did Biden, Clinton, Obama and everyone else in the Chamber) there is a 45% agreement rate. McCain and Bush disagree on immigration, campaign reform, judge appointments, budgetary items, and there were some other ones that are just not popping in my mind right now.

Aging is a horrible thing. I'll try to think of it to get the actual truth over here and you don't have to go on my word and piss-poor memory.

Crap. Now I have to go and look up the website where I saw these figures. Crap crap crap. Please excuse me because I'm going on memory here and I may have some of my information a little bit off. I have a brain like a steel sieve sometimes. UGH!

From one website the name of which I cannot remember it says that an analysis of McCain's voting record shows that the notorious 90% is a little bit misleading. If unanimous senate votes are discarded (which means items where not only McCain voted "with Bush" so did Biden, Clinton, Obama and everyone else in the Chamber) there is a 45% agreement rate. McCain and Bush disagree on immigration, campaign reform, judge appointments, budgetary items, and there were some other ones that are just not popping in my mind right now.

Aging is a horrible thing. I'll try to think of it to get the actual truth over here and you don't have to go on my word and piss-poor memory.

I saw that site too! I cant remember which one it is though. I'll look with ya...

His position on business specifically is that he will provide tax relief (eliminate all captial gains) to small business and start-ups that create jobs. And a $500 tax credit "Making Work Pay" for small business owners. This is clearly stated on BarackObama.com

There are a couple of policies that are very intriguing:

What do you think of these policies? Do you feel that companies doing alot of offshore hiring should not be penalized in any way? Especially when they are getting huge tax breaks in this country?

That is how I feel. Obama has said that he will reward tax breaks to companies that either stay in the States or return to the States. The only businesses, from his word, that he said would get taxed are those that shut down and leave the U.S.

If that is the case, and your business outsourced your job.......why do they deserve a tax break?

That is how I feel. Obama has said that he will reward tax breaks to companies that either stay in the States or return to the States. The only businesses, from his word, that he said would get taxed are those that shut down and leave the U.S.

If that is the case, and your business outsourced your job.......why do they deserve a tax break?

With all due respect, I dont believe only businesses that outsource are going to be taxed under Obama's plan.

Washington Post: Obama's tax plan and small business

Edited September 10, 200817 yr by Casey008

His position on business specifically is that he will provide tax relief (eliminate all captial gains) to small business and start-ups that create jobs. And a $500 tax credit "Making Work Pay" for small business owners. This is clearly stated on BarackObama.com

There are a couple of policies that are very intriguing:

What do you think of these policies? Do you feel that companies doing alot of offshore hiring should not be penalized in any way? Especially when they are getting huge tax breaks in this country?

But Greg, yous ee how I feel. That won't change.

How do you feel on the subject?

Great article on Obama's tax plan

"The big trick behind the Obama tax plan is that his refundable tax credits would primarily go precisely to those who pay little or nothing in federal income taxes. The latest CBO data shows the bottom 40% of income earners already pay no federal income taxes. Indeed, they receive a net payment from the federal income tax system, meaning from the taxpayers, equal to 3.8% of all federal income taxes, because of the refundable tax credits under current law. The middle 20% of income earners, the true middle class, pays 4.4% of federal income taxes. Overall, the bottom 60% of income earners pay less than 1% of federal income taxes on net."

"REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES should be trumpeting the fact that the results of Reaganomics over the past 30 years has been to abolish federal income taxes on the poor and the working class, and almost abolish them on the middle class. They should be emphasizing as well that another result of those tax policies is that the top 1% of income earners now pay 40% of all federal income taxes, and the top 10% now pay 71%, contrary to the foolish political propaganda of the neo-socialist class warriors. When Obama spouts that the rich need to pay their fair share, he should be asked what the heck is their fair share? 100%? 150%?"

Edited September 10, 200817 yr by Casey008

Crap. Now I have to go and look up the website where I saw these figures. Crap crap crap. Please excuse me because I'm going on memory here and I may have some of my information a little bit off. I have a brain like a steel sieve sometimes. UGH!

From one website the name of which I cannot remember it says that an analysis of McCain's voting record shows that the notorious 90% is a little bit misleading. If unanimous senate votes are discarded (which means items where not only McCain voted "with Bush" so did Biden, Clinton, Obama and everyone else in the Chamber) there is a 45% agreement rate. McCain and Bush disagree on immigration, campaign reform, judge appointments, budgetary items, and there were some other ones that are just not popping in my mind right now.

Aging is a horrible thing. I'll try to think of it to get the actual truth over here and you don't have to go on my word and piss-poor memory.

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Wicca.

May have to do some rethinking on this subject. Hmmmm.....

Very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Wicca.

May have to do some rethinking on this subject. Hmmmm.....

Oh please don't rethink it until I find the backup for that. I'd rather have the facts straight for you first.

Oh please don't rethink it until I find the backup for that. I'd rather have the facts straight for you first.

Oh. Ok.

It's just that if this is true, it will give me pause and I'll have to change my thinking on it.

But thanks for looking this up in the first place.

BTW, what is McCain's stance on taxing small businesses and corporations? Will he give tax breaks to all, even if they shut down and ship jobs overseas or out of the country, or will he tax certain bussinesses?