Mitch

Yea, but we all know Lisa liked her bed time activities and most of the guys that she was with were attractive in a very staid kind of way..( I remember my aunt being all hot for Grant Coleman!!!!) The Dobsons were trying to do a Santa Barabara thing with the strong man married to the sassy lady who didn't take it and I think it would have been fun to watch if Fulton stayed and they had recast Whit with an attractive guy..(Whit was working class self made...they could have found a more rough hewn guy like that who would have rubbed all of Lisa's family and friends the wrong way.) Lisa of course meddling between Whit and his kids and his business...(I remember he didn't like Bob and was friendly with John) the set up was good. Why the hell did Fulton pick that hair color and cut, it made her looks old and uptight.

This is a pretty good episode love Kim's and Betsy's mother and daughter relationship ATWT had a lot of strong female characters during this era. Lisa's pairing with Whit comes across as so odd. If only ATWT had cast a more attractive actor, I can't see Lisa riding that decrepit toothy donkey.This Tom and Margo had a real spark to them something they lost over the years due to bad writing.Ellen seems to have been used more in the early 80's then she ever was by Marland. I liked the flashbacks of Ellen finding John's'' dead body''. I know this was a rocky era for ATWT but the writing was vastly superior to most of today's soaps. Not bad..I do like Maggie giving it back to Steve...I HATED Steve and everyone just coddled him....(because he was the STAR of the show or so he and the Bunim thought) Funny seeing Kim not being the Kim of "Toots," fame. I can't see her letting ANYONE grab a phone out of her hand. Fulton left right after this as Whit's bday party (where she hit him in the puss with a cake) was Diana's intro. Too bad, would have been interesting to see more of Diana's animosity and Lisa trying to handle a "bad girl,' like she was. But you are correct...the Whit actor is HORRIBLE and gross, I can't see Lisa being attracted to him. The show was good, the only problem was the lack of connectivity and family ala Marland, and that Nancy and Chris were shuttled out of town. So easy to incorporate them here, with Chris talking to Maggie, and Nancy giving advice to Lisa on how to handle her vixen step daughter .

Some of the characters you described were post Dobsons Lily, Lucinda, Dusty Marcy and the Kirk Jay, Fanny thing was I believe post Dobs, but they may have generated the blue print for it. The "Lisa is den mother to the town," and kidnapped came after the Dobs definatley...(they wrote the original Lisa/Diana thing to be antogonistic, which could have been good, but BVF did not have the same "bite," Fulton had and just always came off as disinterested and snobby, which Lisa never was. I like Lisa best when Fulton came back and before Marland wrote her. She was in the middle of a lot of stuff, and was motherly and loving but still had her Lisa sting going. I liked that Whit's kids all thought of her as their mother and that she would nose her way into their lives but they liked it. Marland kept up the Lisa mothering the lost children of Oakdale but it wasnt the same and it seemed more removed..almost like Lisa paled in comparison to Kim and the "family" the Hughes had. I liked that Lisa had her weird untraditional family. I HATED it when Hogan took over and by the end of the show Lisa ended up almost a pathetic lonely spinster character, which she never was. I wish Marland had kept her step family or Hogan would bring back Diana as a vixen to compete with Carly (sorry people, I think the Carjack era was so boring and repetitive and I liked original recipe Carly until she became the Reva of the show. ) Of the Dobson stuff I liked the "Stenbeck Heir," storyline (hated Gunner though) but James was kind of a dumb villain, would have been nice to have shades of grey on him, and that was really the only besides the tedious Steve/Betsy stuff. The "Who killed John," storyline was I thought really their best work on ATWT, it involved almost everyone and spoiler free time back then the audience thought John was really dead.

"I always want to see more of the Dobsons run, yet I also don't, because what I have seen is...not good, and is quite dull and jarring to ATWT's core identity. It plays like a 40-year old who suddenly starts dressing like an 18-year old to feel hip. I can see why viewers, and Helen Wagner, headed elsewhere (although it may have been P&G, not the Dobsons)." I think this was the most accurate description of the Dobson's ATWT (and most soaps that try to be something they are not.) The Dobsons destroyed the family and community connections on the show, sidelined Chris and Nancy, obscured the Hughes family...but the show was still darkly lit, slow...and kind of depressing...(it took YEARS to resolve the Bets/Steve thing.) focused on like 5 characters. Meanwhile, some of their heroines were old hat, such as the aforementioned Betsy who had no life outside of pining for Steve or being married to Craig or having Danny as a baby. The show was still creaky. I think the main problem with the McColls is that Whit was a terrible casting choice (I think he was a crony of the Dobsons) with his bad toup and dentures, it was gross to see him with Lisa...and neither Fulton or Von Furstenberg had chemistry with him. I think Brian was an ill conceived character and really only Diana and Kurt worked on any level.

When she first came onto the show, she was reformed and was now a no nonsense nurse. It was the flashbacks that showed that Lyla was a former slut, golddigger (as John would taunt her for going after a Hughes.) Her slut genes rolled down to her kids as you could see her being strict with Cricket (the horrible Lisa Loring in an Erica Kane wanna be role, but it could have been a good character) who was a wild before she too melted into the wood work (to match her acting.) Cricket even went to the Masked Ball NOT wearing the slip under her dress that Lyla insisted on! (the scandal) Lisa on her gossip rounds in the hospital told people about it and she and Lyla had a fight about it...something that Sword's Lyla would never do. I liked the first actress who did seem like she had it rough and was a bit tough but Hastings hated her right?

I don't know, considering their history a Lyla and John reunion would have been weird. Original recipe Lyla (the first actress, who I am sorry, played her with more spunk then the wet rag that the next actress played) was a slut who was getting it on with John in a bid for a social climb and then dumped him when someone with money came along ( I would have loved to have seen what the Dobsons were attempting to do with the Governor storyline...the man who Lyla dumped John who eventually dumped poor preggers Lyla, became Gov of the state and John were taunt her about him but that was dropped.) We knew she was a slut because the flashbacks would show her in a sarong type thing with a drink in hand dancing with John (the shame...) Ann Swards Lyla came in and with her wet rag potrayal (she made Ellen look interesting) that was dropped.

If anyone watches "Once Upon a Time," (I know, I know, its a guilty pleasure...actually a soap opera about an extended family that just happens to involve Snow White and the Evil Queen) the character of Zelena could be Lilith's twin sister...tall red head with an accent, who most importantly is bat [!@#$%^&*] crazy and loves to chew the scenery while telling everyone beforehand (in the form of a gloat) exactly what supremely stupid and over convoluted evil scheme she will be up to next. Since Once owe's much to soaps Zelena is actually the Wicked Witch of the West who just happens to be, due to convoluted plot points, the Evil Queen's illegitimate sister who, tricked her boyfriend into impregnating her by magically impersonating the guy's thought to be dead wife (who actually is dead, because, you guessed it, Zelena killed her. ) The posters on the Once board HATE her but I love her similarity to Lilith and that the writers have basically embraced soap insanity and over the top storylines.. I almost swear that they are doing a homage to Lilith. I would know for sure if Zelena produced Robin's shrunken head to taunt Regina with (which, since this is Once, the Blue Fairy or someone would come up with a dumb spell to revert his to his old self.

Charmane!! I love her I just wish they had a scene with her and Von Furstenburgs snobby, snotty Lisa...( she and Fulton's Lisa would have tag team insulted Lucinda.) James was already tired by this time with his ridiculous schemes..I just wish they had fleshed him out better, but boy was he HOT! I hated Gunner and his weird mouth and what the hell did he do for a living? The Dobson's are gone and the show is more multigenerational here with Charmane butting in on the kids, Bob and Frannie, and David and Betsy..(forgot about that perm she had.) This Frannie and Hastings had great chemistry...you really beleive he is a single father raising this kid on his own and that she loves her dad. I never felt that same connection with the rest of the Frannies as i think Marland built up more of a Kim/Frannie thing. The show seemed to morphing and in a wierd transitional phase from the Dobson's Tom/Margo/Barbara/James/Dee/John overload to a more family various people getting the spotlight Marland years.

I hated Heather's Lily, she was one cold fish. We all knew Byrne's Lily was a self centereed narcassist and bitchy in a stealth way....making people feel bad about themselves as not good enough for her life...its just so odd that none of the other characters seemed to realize it probably because of Marland not realizing it. I wish they had let Byrne become a bitchy Lily when she was middle aged. An all out finally bitchy Lily who does not have men groveling at her feet (I would have had Lucinda to finally tell her to go chuck it) would be fun.

Uh...naaaw! In my opinon it wasn't that fun and it was stupid can cliche..not to mention by that time I had all I could tolerate of Harley being the SUPER-heroine who made even Reva look like a slouch...and we were all on GUSH overload. Also not to mention that GL did not have the budget to do it, not to mention that it wasnt a dream story, it was just stupid..and like the clone luckily never mentioned again. I think the big problem with that episode and all of Wheeler and Kreizman's material is that Harley was a great character as a normal everywoman that people could relate to, and a little fantasy that she would have hotties like Mallet and Phillip fall in love with her. The skinnier BE got, the more they made Harley this romantic heroine...it destroyed all that and made the character suck.

LOL, Eileen Fulton would say the same thing when she was in contract negotiations with Bunim, she said as soon as she got off the elevator she would hear office doors slamming shut (oh those PG divas!) Would love to see a joint interview with Fulton and Zimmer and their experiences...I think it would be hilarious especially if booze was involved. I think of all the vets who made the tranistion to Peapack, Reva worked the best as it got her down to her earthy humanity. No 80s shoulder pads or big hair or being cloned. Sure, they could have fixed her up more but she looked like high living Reva would look at that age. Its too bad they waited until the last episodes to have Reva grow up totally and feel comfortable on her own and just be okay being Reva. I think a Reva like that woudl make a good matriarch for the show..since no Bauers were around I think Reva and Josh and Vanessa and (curve ball, I would have her not with Billy but Ross which would piss the Bloss people off.) as the other tentpoles of GL. I don't include the kids of the show as they looked good despite no makeup...everyone else but a couple of people just looked like hell. I think the absolute moment when I just knew that GL would never come back was pre Peapack and that was the "Wacky Wed." episode where Harley became a super hero "The Guidling Light." and it WASNT a dream episode! It was worse then the clone which at least had a minscule connection to reality and had SOME good scenes. The SF I grew up with had a super hero, all to show off BE's abs!

LOL as Reva the portly sex goddess! I actually liked it that they showed a middle aged woman with a little meat on her as being able to attract guys. I could take that over Harley, the shreiking twig as a love interest. And we all know Reva knew how to please a man in a way which had nothing to do with her weight if you know what I mean and I am sure you do! The only problem I had with it is that I wish someone would have said something to Josh or Island Stud or whomever..maybe India when she returned "Well, Reva is certainly looking HEALTHY these days" and for Josh and Reva to just laugh and Josh saying "She keeps me warm at night darling!" But I agree, Reva eating the show was too much. And I did like the mob as dumb as it was, over San Cristoble which was like a bad ABC soap from the 80s fell into SF and had nothing to do with what was going on. It was so dissociated with the show later writers could have made it Springfield's favorite soap "San Cristobel" and act as it was never real.

LOL..I was going to post that there is NO WAY Warren was really interested in Lesley Ann..except for a beard! I never thought that he and Alex were really anything other then friends, actually, he was her lackey who made her laugh and in way was her beard as she could have someon on her arm as she went around terrorrizing her enemies. I really wish they had recast Mike Bauer and put them together..Alex needed a MAN to deal with her and neither Warren or dumb Fletcher could do that. If the Clone made the ratings drop so bad, why the hell did that idiot MADD consider it their last great "success."??

What was going on in 98/99 for that big of a drop?

I loved the Long/Kobe GL up until the fall of 85 when it all fell apart. All the families played off of each other, etc. Reva hadn't taken over and the camp was kind of kept to one storyline at a time...(Susan Piper was fun at first until it just didn't make any sense...) after Charita's death and the axing of the Mike and Hope, the recast of Ed, and this dissolution of the Reardons, it all camp apart..Kyle Sampson and Infinity, Reva jumping out of planes in her fur coat and big hair, Roxie Shayne's badly written and acted split personality, it ALL became camp ALL the time! When Long returned she did bring the show back to earth so that was a plus. When Long wrote family and friendships she was on fire and really GOT what GL was. I wonderhow she would have written ATWT with its strong core after Marland died???

It is too bad that they did not see it that way...that would have been great but it also would have been the flavor of old GL which was an ensemble where everyone was important and got things to do. After the 90s all the shows forgot or couldnt balance things out so we got the Reva Show, the Harley Show, The Brad Cole Show, the Cooper Show. Reva was much more tolerable as part of an ensemble and Zimmer did her best work bouncing off of people as good as her and long term characters..( I always remember a Bauer BBQ small scene with her and Mary Stuart which was really good, you could tell Zimmer respected Stuart and Stuart didnt fade into the wallpaper.)

I understand what you are saying, but original version Van was much nastier then Alex, and they would conveniently forget that after she reformed. However, I think Van could have filled the Alex void, not becoming the same character mind you...just as the poweful complicated woman you should NOT cross. In some ways when Van would get cold she was scarier then Bev/Alex in you knew she meant business. I like my complicated villaness with a core of decency, which is what made Alex interesting under long and Curlee and got ruined under JFP and the of course, Marj/Alex was a cartoon. I would have killed off Matt and have Van go darker...maybe he died at a Spaulding contruction site that had made cuts to save money and that inadvertantley led to his death. Van blames Alan, and without the influence of Henry or Mo around she goes dark. She is sick of what the Spauldings had done to the company as remember it was her legacy almost as much as theirs. It could have been Van doing the "Ex Wives Club" instead of Joan/Alex. Van then gets half of Spaulding under her control and the push and pull with Alan goes on (I would need to recast Alan and actually maybe get them together later on then have him drop dead, leaving all of Spaulding to Van to fight off the various Spaulding heirs.) It seemed they were going that way under Rauch when Van got pissed that her doctor died in the lab explosion and she unmaske Vickie as a Spaulding, but then it went nowhere. She just didnt work as the simpering wife and as even Reva said, "Ive ALWAYS been a little afraid of you!"

I love the Spaulding living room, I hated that they got rid of it for showing that damn study all the time. But it also makes me laugh when I remember the Rauch years and Beth would lay around in her Chanel suits and as they said on the boards "hump the Spaulding couch and molest the liquor cart." Vanessa was so good at being a being a bitch when she needed to be "After your BLUNDER with Spaudling Pharmacutical.." they didn't need to bring in Marj/Alex, Vanessa should have been the rich biz conflicted sometimes bitch in town. I hated when she just simpered after Matt. Derwin and Mallet were sexy as hell and Ehlers was still a bit plump and not annoying at this time. This clip reminded me why I really, really hated Eleni and her fake accent, and AM being a puss over her. I liked Henry's dismissal of her. This was also the last time I liked Jenna..after they brough Buzz in I HATED her and she became another boring heroine.

I wish there were episodes of the late 60s and early 70s available. The Lisa/Michael Shae stuff seems great! I know I said before that ATWT was my "nap time," so my Mom could watch ATWT and see "What that damn Lisa is up to today!" Eileen Fulton, Hastings and Helen Wagner's voices always made me feel like everything was okay and I was a kid wrapped up in a blanket...(stupid as hell I know!) That had to have been the time of the Shae storyline where Lisa was at the height of her bitchiness and about to start her redemption to a grayer character (i.e. taking the rap to save Tom.) I wish Marland had gone ahead with his plan to have Chuckie Shae return from the dead, and knowing Marland, Dr. Shae would be close behind...that would have been much more interesting then boring Scott.

Interesting, at that time they wanted to do a Nola/Ed thing but PS refused. I think it would have been interesting and would have given him some airtime. Also, I think it would have been funny to see Nola tangle, work with Marj's Alex. I wonder how Brown and Dusay's uh, sometimes over the top Alex would have worked.

It was Charita who proposed the story right? Having grown up watching her it was nice to see, they handled it, very well. Bert was a trouper but they allowed her to be scared too...she tried to be strong for everyone else and then during her party she dropped and broke a plate in the kitchen and couldnt pick it up and broke down and Mo was there for her. Nice scene and one of the last of the good Pam Long family storuy stuff as then the show became all Reva and the Lewis and Reva jumping out of planes in fur coats, and Infinity, etc.

God the show sucked at that time. Though I had to laugh at Miss Sally's nightgown being devored by a feathered boa. That and Zimmer's overacting in that clip looks like a parody of soaps. I don't remember Miss Sally going after H.B. (I know she was Billy's real mom) but she looked pretty damn good...(I thought of her as an old broad at the time.)

Thanks..good to be seen..even if I have to admit my hidden lust for, as my sister used to call him..."the fat Ed.." !

LOL..I always though MH was kind of sexy for a normal dad kind of guy. I wish they had kept him. PS was an appropriate Ed in that he played him as weak and edgy but he never had any warmth and after Mo died it just didn't work for him to be a tentpole figure. However, his return under Taggert was really good. They used him as a Judge Lowell figure and PS played him as an older wiser, Ed. It was a nice change (and who couldnt love him threatening Carmen and her being afraid...) I remember a scene he had with Zimmer and she was doing all her tricks and PS quietly didnt let her steal the scene and she brought it down to HIS level and it was a really good scene..reminded me that Zimmer could be great when she wasnt playing to the rafters. PS brought a quiet authority to Ed which the show needed at that time. Then it all went to hell with Conboy and Westen and Ed became a drunk and smacked Chelle, and PS said shove it to their offer to be recurring.

That was always my dream team in my head Marland and Long, just for the reasons you stated. Plus Long would bring her characters down to earth as Marlands, no matter if they were blue collar or upper crust, all talked the same. I wonder if Long is still writing? Despite what she did to the Bauers (which I believe was out of her hands) and her intro of the Coopers (and that is just because I hated Justin Deas' scenery chewing Buzz Cooper which she had no hand in...(I can imagine Marland being horrified at Buzz...) Plus, as I have said before, Long didn''t shy away from sex, Marland was a prude and his love scenes were as cold as hell.