Everything posted by dc11786
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
When I read the bible a few years back, I felt the show was underdeveloped. There were the three main stories and among those stories only a couple of them were lead characters. I didn't get a sense of a majority of the characters and there was little sense of major plot movement in several of the stories. Part of the issue is, as you stated, the network was skittish so a lot of the show's more provocative story elements from the bible (the incest, the interracial relationship, the impotency) as well as some of the stuff from onscreen (the attempt at an AIDS storyline) were excised completely from the show which left you with something that was incredibly generic. It was replaced by very traditional soap fare which wasn't always the most compelling material. Yet, because this was the era of love on the run, the character based material would have seemed unique to some extent.
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Search For Tomorrow Discussion Thread
I heard a little while ago and still processing this. As a queer kid growing up, "Batman" was my favoirte superhero. I loved the Tim Burton films and later became enthralled with "Batman: The Animated Series" because it embraced the Burton aesthetic. Also, Kevin Conroy's voice was so perfect for the part. It meant a lot to me to later learn that he was an out gay man more than I can put into words. When the Pride comic book series came out this year, I bought it to read Conroy's story. It was very poignant. It actually hurts a bit because I wonder when he learned he was sick in reference to when he wrote that story. Also, for Conroy to be a gay man who survived the AIDS pandemic in his 20s, this seems cruel. It's hard to lose one of the queer elders. In terms of "Search for Tomorrow," Chase should have been such a mess, but Conroy kept the character together. His chemistry with Robert Curtis Brown was excellent. Conroy made Chase's guilt over his involvement in Rebecca's disappearance so heart wrenching even as he has a tendency to be self destructive. I will miss Conroy immensely. In his memory, I share this one which I'm sure I've posted before...
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
@Paul Raven I think you are right how "Loving," particularly in the 1990s, faced a similar predicament to "Search for Tomorrow" in the 1980s, especially during the NBC years. I think the complicating factor for "Loving" was that the foundations were pretty much obliterated very early on. Nothing came much of the initial three main stories: (1) Roger and Merrill's affair, (2) Mike's struggles with PTSD, and (3) Lily and Jack's love. A majority of those characters (Roger, Merrill, Lily) were written out before the show's first anniverary. Mike's wife was also dumped within a year. I still maintain Nixon should have written the first year herself to establish tone, characters, and overall vision. Once Marland leaves, the show is fairly aimless. Some of the immediate fallout is fine, but once the show gets further into 1986 things tend to fall apart at a bit of a faster pace. In the 1990s, Jackie Babbin works to establish an identity for the show. I think what she leaves for Fran Sears in the summer of 1991 is decent and Sears expands on the class conflict by emphasizing the impact of having a college in the town has on its citizens. Sears plans really looked to bring in the social issues that had been important to the show's core. Then, Haidee Granger comes in and things start to fall again in terms of general direction.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
I've made this argument in a slightly different form over the years. The Aldens needed an antagonist that was on their level in terms of money and power. Dane Hammond got there and should have stayed there. The idea of the nouveau riche Dane ending up going toe to toe on a regular basis with Cabot Alden would have kept the "Dynasty" angle the show wanted so badly by the late 1980s more viable. To me, Dane was a viable longterm character as Jack's natural father, Ann's ex-husband, Shana's former partner in crime, Cabot's former employee turned rival, and a series of other relationships (Ava, Gwyn, Lorna, etc.) Similarly, I think there was a realization early on that Roger need a rival in one form or another. Johnny Forbes was originally conceived as Joe Kennedy type, but with much more pronounced ties to the mob. He was going to be behind the prostitution ring and would end up dead by his own hand in the pilot film. Johnny could have stayed as the man behind the man. Johnny as sort of the new moneyed heavy might have worked. There is an attempt to make Garth Slater that character, but that couldn't have been longterm for obvious reasons. Finally, the show introduced Warren Hodges, the district attorney, as that character before just abandoning Roger all together. I think Roger should have returned, but there was a difference between him and Clay. Clay was more arrogant than Roger, more dapper, and more polished. Roger wasn't raised in the circles that Clay was from what I have gathered. There is also a confidence that Clay only pretended to have, but it was rarely more than a facade. A lot of the mid to late 1980s attempts were such vile characters they could only last a single story cycle. Nick Diantos owned the casino and was pumping Trisha with drugs. Hunter Belden was a wealthy playboy convincing Dolly he had sold her daughter into child pornography. Janie's death was a waste. If I had been in charge, I would have had Janie marry Curtis when he was locked in Dunellyn and taken control of his interest in things and made all the Aldens squirm. Buck's daughter married to Curtis while Curtis was building something with Stacey just seemed to work well with Janie trying to ignore that she had feelings for Frankie. Janie isn't in town when the prediction is initially made in April. I think the original plan was to kill off Jeremy. During the second round, when Ava brings back the same psychic Gwyn used to help find Trisha, it was revealed that the person who would die had a name start with the letter J. It probably was still going to be GIlbert, masquerading as Jeremy, but the initial masquerade story is so dumb. Gwyn must hold the record for sleeping with three different men who were not who she thought they were because they were either a twin (Jonathan / Gilbert) or an imposter (Alex). Addie Walsh and Laurie McCarthy's run is stronger than Walsh's 1992 run, but they squandered so much potential and wrapped up too much too quickly. Ava taking control of AE should have played out for at least a year if not more. Regarding Isabelle and Ally, I think the show was briefly attempting to paint the idea that Isabelle saw Ally as a Gwyn type someone who was lower class but valued family and would chose the Aldens over their own. Stacey was originally a tomboy type. She was a swimmer for AU and was working with Billy Bristow as her coach. In the original bible, there was a suggestion that Stacey and Curtis would end up together for a stretch and that Stacey might even be a bit more manipulative than she ever appeared onscreen. In what I've seen more recently of 1985, Marland did a lot of work on the character of Stacey to give her those layers and dimensions that you are speaking about. Stacey carrying on an affair with Jack while he was married to Ava was a very interesting story choice for the show's heroine especially given her strict Catholic upbringing. There were some very well done scenes of Stacey agonizing over her and Jack's infidelity and how her parents would react to this. When Ava had Stacey served with a subpoena as a correspondent in Jack and Ava's divorce case, Stacey's parents were present. This all seemed to be taken from the original plot projection for Merrill Vochek with the exception that Merrill didn't seem to have that many qualms about sleeping with a married man. The story for Jack and Stacey, after Jack secured the divorce from Ava, should have been about Jack constantly putting Stacey in situations that made her question the values her family had instilled in her since birth. To me, the custody of baby Johnny Forbes should have prevented Jack and Stacey from marrying. Jack should have been determined to keep Johnny at any cost and when Stacey refused to marry Jack so that he could take Johnny away from Tug and Sheri, Jack might have even considered returning to Ava. When Jack and Lily had their affair, Stacey's decision to divorce Jack should have riled up the Donovans as even Mike and Noreen didn't divorce in the end, if I recall correctly. However, if this was the route the show was going to maintain, you needed to have the Donovan family around in some form to represent the value system that Stacey was working to maintain. Rose and Patrick should have been kept around in a recurring capacity. Mike and Doug could have dipped in and out of the story when their position seemed to fit. Doug and Lily Slater may have been an interesting angle to go circa 1988. In the 1990s though, Stacey was presented as a soccer mom/Everywoman type and I think that worked. The problem was the powers that be went for intense melodrama with the gaslighting plot rather than exploring the potentially more meaningful tale of a woman who married her first love in the previous decade, now single with two kids in the era of AIDS and an evolving stance on sexuality. Stacey should have gone on speed dating or video dating. She should have fallen for a man who only wanted to have sex with her. She should have struggled balancing work, family, social life, and personal life. Then, cowboy Buck could have ended up drunk on her front porch. Dr. Ron Turner, Jr. (Jeffrey D. Sams) was Cooper Alden's therapist during the aborted childhood sexual abuse storyline. Addie Walsh had crafted Cooper's sexual abuse story when Fran Sears was executive producer as it seemed to be intentionally mirroring the original Lily Slater story, but with a male in the role of Lily. I would even speculate that they may have considered a multiple personality storyline for Cooper as I seem to recall some scenes in May 1992 where Cooper seemed very different in one set of scenes than another. Like Ally saying he was such a different person when they were alone, but it may have just meant to mean that Cooper was more honest. It would seem that when Haidee Granger arrived, she killed the story. Given that Paul Anthony Stewart stated to the press that Walsh had left mid-1992 over a story dispute, I think Granger nixed the sexual abuse story and softened it by making it that Cooper "seduced" his nanny, Selina. When Walsh returns in 1994, she fairly quickly readdresses the story between Cooper and Steffi and Cooper goes back to calling it abuse. The sequence around New Years Eve 1992/1993 was very strange with Ron basically performing a singing and dancing number because Sams was appearing in a play. They introduced Ron's doctor mother and a girlfriend, but I don't know if that was going to be explored any further. Given that Walsh would have been out the door, it may have intentionally been a filler storyline. Outside of that storyline, I am not sure what, if any, longterm plans they had. Turner pushed Kate Slavinski to run for city council and I believe was last seen in April 1993 at Trisha's funeral.
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Primetime Soaps
After "Flamingo Road," I've been trying to make my way through "Emerald Point, N.A.S." I want to like it more than I actually like it. Some of the setup is clearly a retread of "Dynasty." Susan Dey's Celia is a a combination of Steven and Fallon Carrington. Of the three Mallory daughters, Celia is the most intriguing, but Susan Dey isn't bringing the edge to the character that is written and it falls flat. In her defense, some of the sequences are beyond bizarre, a drunken Celia playing hide and seek between cars with Richard Dean Anderson's very unamused Simon Adams is a sight to see. Though, I do find Anderson and Dey have passable enough chemistry that makes them rootable, and Celia's main central conflict, that the Navy has been a dominating force that has controlled every aspect of her life, gives us the foundation of an intriguing triangle between Celia and Simon (a test pilot instructor) and her husband, Jack Warren (a JAG attorney). In the pilot, Celia is frustrated as she is unexpectedly pregnant and refuses to bare another generation of Mallory naval officers. She threatens to abort the baby if Jack doesn't leave the Navy. Jack initially considers work from Harlan Adams, Simon's industrialist father who's company has many government contracts and has a significant airplane manufacturing division, however, a court case leaves him staying in the Navy. Celia is an alcoholic. She ends up having a miscarriage leaving Jack with lingering doubts what role Celia's drinking played in the loss of their child. Celia is done. She and Jack's marriage deteriorates further and further and Celia decides to break free and start with Simon. Just as she is doing so, Jack decides he will leave the Navy, which may, or may not, have Celia back in his arms. The central older set is strong, at first. Maud Adams' character Maggie Farrell is a civilian with an MIA POW husband who she is convinced is still out there. This prevents her from getting to romantically inclined with the widowed Thomas Mallory. Dennis Weaver doesn't bring the sense of domineering stoicism that John Forsythe seems to better embody in Blake Carrington, but both men are built from the same mold. I'm trying to enjoy Deanna played by Jill St. John (who looks like Brenda Vaccaro's more glamorous sister to me. Julia Blake would definitely be calling up Deanna if they were related). Deanna initially seems to have a bit of thing for Blake and seems to be the Alexis of the group accept she pops up in episode four rather than waiting a full season. Deanna as a former Navy wife doesn't really work for me, but I am assuming they wanted her to have a familiarity with the whole system. I think I would have gone another route and had Deanna's son be a Naval officer who had been killed in the line of duty. Possibly in a drill like the one that Simon Adams criticized in the pilot (an element of Simon's character that I found intriguing but seems to have been squashed). Deanna trying to worm her way into the Adams family with Patrick O'Neil as Harlan was fun. I'm only an episode into Robert Vaughn and Harlan already feels less larger than life and more like a poor man's version of Cecil Colby. The Russian plotline is very cringey, but I am sure fit the culture of the time. Michael Carven slips in and out of the accent in a scene with Simon. I am never sure what the point of the Simon - Alexi rivalry is. Is Simon suppose to also care for Leslie Mallory? Is this just an embodiment of the American-Russian conflict? Or is Simon just jealous that Leslie is monopolizing Alexi's time and wants his own Russian invasion? Who knows at this point, and most of the time I don't really care. I can't even remember what is the purpose of Thomas Mallory entertaining Robert Loggia's character. The latest twist involving Deanna in the Russian plot is preposterous, which is a shame because Deanna was making interesting gains in the Adams household when she bought Hilary's blackmail tape. Sela Ward's Hilary is fun. The decision to have most of her scenes with Richard Dean Anderson's Simon, her half-brother, in her bedroom is an odd choice that definitely places an odd level of sexuality between the siblings. Besides the possible incest, Hilary is the most engaging of the younger female characters even though she remains one of the flattest in the early episodes. The way she manipulates her bestie Kay Mallory is the most interesting Kay has been in those early episodes. Hilary going after Glenn after he marries Kay while in the Caribbean bar dancing with other men to "Sweet Dreams" is a fun sequence. Almost as fun as Celia flirting with John Bennett Perry (does Dinah Caswell know what Michael is up to?) to The Police's "Every Breath You Take." I have little nice to say about Kay or Leslie. Leslie as the female naval member is intriguing but she is too deep into the Russian story. Kay the school teacher is too saccharine for my taste. The hinted at dynamic between the sisters is intriguing but they can't seem to stick the landing on what that dynamic is actually going to be. I almost wish this got a second season because I see the foundation of a really interesting show.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
The way that "Loving" approached the transition from the college stories to life beyond Alden University was messy. They needed to either keep the fast paced storytelling in the college or switch to the slower paced stories outside of college. Walsh wrote the start of Ally's pregnancy which set in motion the stories that would drive the story away from the university. I don't think that was a bad thing (Ally's pregnancy). I like that Taggert and Guza had Ally try to balance and it all not want to drop out of school. This was interesting. Ally and Cooper marrying based on Isabelle's outdated values and Cooper's manipulative tendencies also wasn't a terrible idea. It was the pacing. Ally and Cooper have the baby and marry in May/June and by August they are separating and in a custody battle. That story should have dragged on for at least a year before Ally and Casey got back together. I think the general problem was that Nixon never wanted Alden University to be a central focus. Her "Loving" was a soap set in a college town, not about a college town. There was a significant difference. Nixon is the one who moves the stories away from the campus. Casey drops out to pursue photography and Steffi to pursue modelling. Cooper is in classes (offscreen) but considers quitting. Only Ally, who intends on being a stay at home mom, is still pursuing her degree. Nixon also moves Jeremy away from Alden U and has him working at the ad agency. I think with Janie she was never in Corinth that long for anything to matter. Her initial story arc is in Boston and then she arrives in Corinth in late June/early July and is gone by the middle of August. I liked the idea of Janie working at the hospital with Angie, and the suggestion that Janie would have lived at the boarding house. This might not be popular, but I don't think Angie should have come over to "Loving." Debbi Morgan was, and still is a strong talent, but I would have introduced her as someone new. "Loving" had a very poor history of introducing characters of color, but it may have been good for the show to expand on what they had. Minnie Madden was fairly popular in her friendship with Kate. I think I would have used Minnie to introduce Morgan's new character, possibly Madden's niece or prodigal daughter returned after many years away. Similarly, I think that the show could have done something with the Hindman family who had been an on-again/off-again recurring fixture for a bit. Ewing could have been Art Hindman's younger brother. I would have intergrated the characters into the main canvas by having Morgan's new character being a law partner for Shana and Ewing being an ambitious, rising politician who would clash with the way Alden University would monopolize Corinth's resources while underpaying in taxes. This would keep him as a thorn in the side of the Aldens. Maybe, he was even a former student of Roger Forbes'. Regarding the others, Roger should have returned at some point. I think Marland would have brought him back, but I don't think that was going to happen after Marland left the building. @j swift Addressed some of the issues with having a Clay, a Curtis, and a Cooper on the campus at the same time. I think, in some ways, Roger could have been a sorta Alex type, the son that Aldens would have wanted, but even that might have been a bit of a stretch. I think a return of Roger would have been good if they were going to play a Roger / Dane rivalry with Roger winning back Jack, but losing Ann to Dane or vice versa. I do see the point about the set up of the Roger / Ann and the Clay / Gwyn marriages being the same: wealthy Americans living overseas while the husband carries on with other women. I think it may have made it a bit more interesting if Clay, like original flavor Ann, had no interest in business. He was more a free thinker and pushed Gwyn into an open marriage and had encouraged Curtis to not be restrained by the conservative sexual mores of a town like Corinth. Maybe, I would have had Clay return and focus on maintaining Alden University rather than going into business. The Donovans should have been weaved in and out of the story as needed including Mike and Noreen. I think Doug as a reporter gave him the most agency on the canvas, but I think tying him back into the university in the early 1990s would have been interesting when the show was reestablishing AU. As I've stated before, I would have had Doug come to terms with his sexuality and come out as a gay or bisexual man. Curtis, despite being on for so many years, was mismanaged for most chunks of time post- Linden Ashby. Jackie Courtney as Ann is intriguing. I love the initial concept of Ann with Shannon Eubanks, but I've started to appreciate Callan White's work more that I've seen it. When the writers knew what they wanted Ann to be, Callan was a strong presence. Unfortunately, that was a rarity after Doug Marland walked out. I cannot remember if I've said this before, but I would have brought on Morgan Fairchild as Ann Alden during the 1995 revamp as Dennis Parlato wasn't renewing his contract. I'd also probably have had Roscoe Born play Dane Hammond. Dane was a character who should have had longer runs. I liked Paul Slavinski, Carly Rescott, and Flynn. Matt Ford should have stayed Giff Bowman didn't need to be a psycho Lily Slater should have had at least one run in the 1990s. Jack's mother's side, the Hendersons, could have been explored a bit further. A son of Kate's could have showed up at some point. Catherine Hickland should have been Lorna.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
The arrival of Angie and Charles and the return of Alex really impacted the nature of storytelling on "Loving." I do like Agnes Nixon's 1993-1994 run, but it is very heavy on police and hospital stories when they hadn't been before. It shifted the tone. Angie at 35 Maple Street would have kept her in the thick of the college story. She was already involved in Steffi's bulimia storyline. Ron Nummi would have been a great Curtis. Stan Albers was a workable actor, but I never get any sense of what direction they want to go with Curtis. It's almost as if they looked at Marcantel's snarky Curtis and Moses' nice guy Curtis and tried to settle on a middle ground. It just didn't work. In the original story bible for "Loving," Lorna was paired with Jeff Turner, Jack's best friend and the son of Dr. Ron Turner, who had been a psychologist who was involved in treating both Lily's DID and Mike's PTSD. Jeff and Lorna would have married and divorced without much fanfare. It was going to be an interracial relationship were the race differences were downplayed. Lorna would eventually cause problems for Doug, but I don't think it was made clear if that would be before, during, or after her marriage. ABC most likely got skittish. Jeff was retooled and the character became Tony Perilli. Angie was another example of collapse of the social class structure of the prior years. For the second act of the college revamp, Addie Walsh introduced four new contract characters: Staige Prince, Kent Winslow, Cooper Alden, and Casey Bowman. To make space, characters had to go. Walsh made the decision to eliminate the Carly / Paul story which eliminated a large part of the show's working class contigent between Carly, Paul, and Flynn being shuffled off the canvas. Angie ended up in pseudo-working class group with Leo (who owned a department store), Shana (a lawyer), Stacey (a novelist and college professor), Dinahlee (a small business owner), Trucker (another small business own), Tess (once married to a millionaire), and Buck. I don't get a sense they had story for Angie. The pairing with Trucker was interesting, but I don't know what the thoughts would have been long term.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Debbi Morgan arrived in Corinth as Angie in August, 1993 when Robert Guza and Millee Taggert were still writing the show. I never go the sense that they knew what to do with Angie. I believe the show was intending to bring back some past characters in celebration of the show's tenth anniversary (hence Curtis and Alex's returns), but I wonder what the circumstances were that shifted Angie to "Loving." Angie does end up spending most of her scenes with Trucker as the story with Tess, Curtis, Buck, and Kuwait wasn't really well received. Trucker and Tess had initially appeared as end game, but, by the time Angie arrived, it was clear that Tess was going to be between Clay and Curtis. Part of the issue was that there was no real build to Angie. Part of the issue was Angie was connected with people who were the most disconnected from the canvas. The show had never had much of a medical presence so her work at the hospital wasn't going to initial build much story. Angie was involved in Shana's pregnancy and that kinda of created an Angie-Shana friendship, but Shana was always two steps away from being let go. Similarly, Jeremy, while having more of a setpiece to work with in terms of the college, felt very forced into the series. Personally, I would have, at the very least, given Angie an office at 35 Maple Street which would have kept her in the thick of things with the college kids. Also, it would have given her access to Kate Rescott, which I think might have been a nice friendship. Trucker asks Angie out on a date in like September or October 1993. I cannot remember if its under Nixon or Guza/Taggert. Whenever it is, Angie turns him down and the story is dropped. In late October, Charles Harrison is introduced as Alex's FBI buddy during the someone is targetting the Aldens plot, but the initial Charles/Angie stuff is initially about Charles' past with the dead fiancee and the Charles/Frankie relationship which was clearly recycled Trucker/Frankie kind of material. Angie is weaved into the social stories... she ends up suspecting Steffi's eating disorder in January and she has some play in the Patti may have developmental issues. I don't think it's really til February/March 1994 that they start building the HIV storyline for Angie. The initial strand is Angie and Charles talking about escalating their relationship and the need for protection living in the era of AIDS. In April, Angie ends up being stabbed by a syringe that had been used on a heavy intravenous drug user and the patient refuses to submit to an HIV test. This plays out briefly because then things shift into the aplastic anemia stuff requiring the bone marrow transplant that begins with Angie being kidnapped by Janie's boyfriend in Boston. The stuff with the plane crash I believe was very early in Nixon's run before she dropped Gwyn / Buck. I think when it comes to writers, I'm not sure there is one that ever made it all come together to a point that gave the show a distinctive original tone that the show was known for. Almost every writer made a significant contribution, but they just never completely pulled it together long enough (mostly because they were never given time) to do so. The writers who were given the most time at the show were Millee Taggert (with Tom King from September 1988-May 1991, solo from May to August 1991, and with Robert Guza from January to September 1993) and Addie Walsh (from January 1992 to Januarry 1993 and August 1994 until early spring 1995). Taggert and King had been working on sitcoms and immediately embedded a sense of humor into the show, which became a trademark of the series. They were also the ones who introduced Trucker McKenzie and the real Clay Alden while starting the Who's the Daddy? story with Stacey and cousins Jack Forbes and Rick Alden. Some of the issues relate to the executive producer situation. Joe Stuart's toxic misogyny had its impact on the set leading to Joe Hardy arriving and wanting to make the show more in line with the big adventure stories of "General Hospital." The spy stuff with Alex and Clay and Jelka is bad. I still confuse the unmemorable Jolie and Juliette. The biggest flaw though in this era is the failure to develop a strong youth storyline. In theory, with Trucker and Trisha as the show's big couple, centering around their siblings should have been a nice way to keep Trucker and Trisha in the thick of things without needing to keep them front and center. The problem was that Curtis was the older brother and to make Rocky and Curtis the youth story, you had to ignore all the history that came before it with Curtis. Also, because Curtis had gone through so many iterations prior to Stan Albers arrival, there is no sense of character. Is he a good guy or a bad guy? This inability to pin down a sense of who Curtis was at his core haunts the show until its end. The problem I have is it is all so generic and flavorless in big story for so much of the initial stretch (1988-1990) until Jacqueline Babbin comes in. Babbin wanted the show to be more of a mini "All My Children" and was big on reestablishing Corinth as a town of haves and have nots. Under Babbin, there was a more cohesive sense of community with the recentering of the havenots around Kate's boarding house with Rocky, Rio, Abril, and Monty. Under Babbin, I believe we see the return of Patrick and Rose Donovan after a several year hiatus and Ilene Kristen's Norma Gilpin is brought into the fold. The story regarding Abril's baby (she was pregnant by Clay, giving her baby to Trucker and Trisha, and befriending Carly who was involved with Clay) is pretty solid and had the bones to go on for a long time. Pairing that with the Carly, Paul, and Ava triangle while also reuniting Gwyn and Dane Hammond had the potential for a rich place. Fran Sears replaces Jackie Babbin after a year as Babbin only agreed to give Nixon and ABC a specific amount of time before returning to writing her murder mystery novels. In the final months of Taggert, she introduced several significant characters (Ally Rescott, Matt Ford, and Dinahlee Mayberry). Ally and Matt's romance was very well received. Eric Woodall was phenomenal. Laura Sisk Wright was green but showed the potential that made Ally a long running character. Jessica Collins Dinah was just electric. The fatal flaw during Mary Ryan Munisteri's run is her approach to Trucker and Trisha, which was to naturally bring to the service the differences in their upbringings. As a natural extension of the have and have not angle, this makes sense, but Trisha comes off as boorish and Trucker comes off as stubborn and gullible. Making these characters messy gave them long term internal issues to deal with, but this was a turn off to the audience. I enjoy them, but I have never been a huge Trisha/Trucker fan. Fran Sears had a very clear vision to continue the haves / have nots angle but to bring Alden University back into focus. Sears introduced Pins, the bowling alley which was such a uniquely "Loving" set as well as the Tides, which was initially this beautifully rustic hunting lodge with a hint of gothic mystery. Giff's studio at the university is very nicely lit with a large sky light. Ava is working at Checkers, a theme restaurant in line with the type of establishments popping up in the 1990s. Sears sense of color was very vibrant, but also soft and romantic. Ryan Munisteri is replaced by Addie Walsh who is most remembered as the one who spearheaded the college revamp because under her pen we saw the introduction of Cooper Alden, Kent Winslow, Staige Prince, Casey Bowman, and Hannah Mayberry. Casey was a character that was proposed by Mary Ryan Munisteri as she had introduced Giff. Ryan Munisteri had utilized an art space in 1990 on "Tribes" and had a triangle between two friends in a band just as Munisteri seemed to be doing with Revel, Ally, and Matt except Walsh held back on introducing Revel and instead introduced a minor character named James. It would seem that Walsh may have cherry picked from Munisteri's long story while developing the college set. Hannah may have been a Munisteri suggestion as her arrival precedes the rest by two months in early February 1992. Cooper, by all accounts, is all Walsh. His introduction story with the dead parents is something that Walsh had done the previous year when she was head writing the French soap opera "Riviera." The wealthy de Courcey family were housing two orphaned teenaged cousis of the main set. Kent and Staige were very thinly written as a part of the Greek system set that was quickly abandoned. Besides the intro of the young people, Walsh's run is pretty heavy on the Clay / Dinahlee pairing which didn't work. The disillusioned romantic version of Clay that returned from Hollywood paired with a very humbled Dinahlee did no favors to either character. If the origins hadn't been during Noelle Beck's second maternity leave, it may have worked out better, but the focus on Clay's new parentage was a shift that destabilized most of the canvas. It tied into the fairly unmemorable Tides ghost story. Giff going off the deep end was also dumb. Gwyn joined Shana in the land of Alden women who had no sense of story or purpose. Jack's death and the Clay and Stacey story didn't suit the original actors involved. Dennis Parlato gave Clay more of a convincing menace than Larkin Malloy did. Walsh plays the class conflict in much broader terms. Initially, its the Greek system with the wealthy Kent and Staige with poor Ally Rescott representing the new class system of Corinth. Walsh turns Munisteri's regal, patrician Isabelle Alden played by Celeste Holm into a poor man's Phoebe Wallingford making Patricia Barry's Isabelle into a classist buffoon who is determined to keep them "damn Mayberry girls" away from her Alden boys. Walsh has Isabelle driven by a need to maintain power by securing her son Clay's role in the Alden family despite being the product of an affair she had with stablehand Tim Sullivan. It takes a richly complex part of the canvas and waters it down to the point where you would prefer it just not be a thing. To be fair to Walsh, her run was also known for being paired with Haidee Granger, who from most accounts, was not the show's strongest executive producer. On the heels of Sears, Granger's "Loving" seemed very disjointed. Granger had previously worked on British television and I think there may have been an attempt to take a very different approach by deemphasizing long story. Characters materialize and become contract without having much sense of development (Armand Rosario and Leo Burnell). Her run is remembered positively for the crossover with "All My Children" where Carter Jones went after Dinahlee. On the heels of Giff kidnapping Trisha and taking her to the belfry, it was too much. Giff died around September 30 and the Carter Jones saga was most of October leading into sweeps. The final issue within the Walsh / Granger era is the introduction of Jean Le Clerc's Jeremy Hunter from Pine Valley. Jeremy had appeared the previous year in an arc with his wife Ceara (played by Genie Francis) as she had fled Pine Valley to try and work through her feelings after uncovering that she had sexually abused as a child. The initial arc (under Munisteri and Sears) was brilliant as it enhanced the Matt / Ally story and also gave Trisha a shoulder to cry on during the Dinahlee/Trucker affair. The issue was that Jeremy's role in 1991 was very minimal. In 1992, Jeremy is brought on for Stacey after the decision was made to dump Trucker/Stacey. It would have made more story sense to pursue Jeremy and Trisha, but with Noelle Beck on the edge of leaving, maybe they figured it would be better to go another direction. Anyway, Walsh's run ends pretty much in autopilot mode but sets up a decent situation with Ally's pregnancy to propel the younger set forward. Louie Slavinski's prostate cancer diagnosis was also set in motion in Walsh's final days. Tonally, Walsh downplays the trademark comedy in order to enhance the emotional resonance of the work. Munisteri and Taggert were both able to build strong emotional sequences, but they had script writers who made those scenes memorable. Walsh's work falls flat with the script writing team in place. In terms of plotting, Walsh is strong. Something is always happening it just might not last a long time. When Taggert and Guza arrive, there is an immediate turn around. They focus the show around three major story threads: (1) Shana deciding she wants a baby and wants Ava's boyfriend Leo to be the father, (2) a haunted Curtis returning to Corinth and his pairing with his father's lover Dinahlee, and (3) Casey and Ally's romance being threatened by Cooper's role as the father of Ally's baby. From there, other stories spin off. The introduction of Amelia Heinle as Stephanie Brewster in January 1993 marks the final member of the quad that "Loving" was remembered for. Guza and Taggert's Steffi is an emotionally manipulative party girl who uses that exterior to hide the deep loneliness she feels growing up with a mother who is out of touch with reality. The Brewsters of Corinth, like the Brewsters of Point Claire, are old money who are now broke but desperate to maintain the facade that they are still able to maintain a lifestyle that keeps them in the upper echelons of Corinth society. Steffi is paid by Isabelle to keep Casey occupied so that Cooper and Ally can marry with the Alden heir being legitimate. The concept of Steffi is not new to "Loving." This was the original concept for Staige Prince, but there was no development into her character and Eden Atwood was very broad in her performance. There was also a brief character Mia who seemed set to fill a similar role, but Mia was ditched when Walsh exited. While Steffi certainly reinstills a sense of social class in Corinth, Taggert and Guza's have nots are not as strong as as Taggert's last run. Tess is living at the boarding house. Buck comes on as an opportunist like Tess. Similarly, Dinahlee lives above her bowling alley, but she is still a small business owner. Taggert and Guza keep Isabelle on the fringes of the story which is probably best given what Isabelle had become. The only positive working class character I can recall being added was the waitress that helps Trisha after her accident. Robert Huston and his girlfriend Dolly are grifters. Tess is suppose to be a grifter with a heart of gold. Angie and Frankie are presented as dealing with more working class issues (gangs in California), but it isn't really resonating because of Angie's position as a doctor. The final days of Trisha in Corinth are marked by the arrival of Trucker's unknown half-brother Buck Huston, who is involved in a scheme with Tess Wilder to bilk Trucker out of Trisha's inheritance. Tess and Buck turn out to involved in Curtis' chilling experience in Kuwait. The Kuwait story is a real mark on a very positive era. Patrick Johnson is convincing as a soldier, but not as an Alden. Michael Lord was more convincing as Alden, but less as a soldier. Lord had a tendency to overplay Curtis, while Johnson underplayed him. Tess seems to be a bit of Taggert's early intentions for Dinahlee as the scheming nanny and Guza's penchant for manipulative blond conwomen like Summer Holloway. If a lesser actress had been in the role, Tess would have departed at the time of Nixon's arrival. There is a strong sense of sexuality to Guza and Taggert's loving. Shana's insemination plot is suppose to be a no-strings attached sexual encounter that is clearly complicated by the emotional intimacy that is shared by two people who are having a child together. Steffi is a sex positive character who has no problem coaxing Cooper into the Arabian Nights window display at Burnell's and proceeds to publicly undress him as foreplay in front of a group of shoppers and Ava. Gwyn's bubble bath with Buck seems to push the boundaries as does a sequence where Dinalee and Curtis are getting handsy under the table at L'Auberge waiting for the Aldens to join them. Also, proving that sex has no age, Kate's attempts to reassure a post-operative Louis that she still wants to be intimate with him are very touching and end with Kate and Louis in their bedroom. The return of a passionate Ava leaves her dangling between Leo and Jeremy for much of the year before suggesting that Alex Masters will also be thrown into the mix. Angie and Frankie Hubbard's introduction to Corinth gives "Loving" its first major African American characters. Minor characters like Egypt and Kate's pal Minnie Madden, police chief Art Hindman, and Hindman's kids Dave and Tally all remained fairly secondary. Frankie's brashness is refreshing and the interaction between Frankie and Steffi promised to revisit the idea of playgirl socialite Lorna Forbes dating African American Ron Turner's son. The downside of this time is Curtis Alden. Trying to refocus the canvas on Curtis with Trisha departing the canvas was a brilliant idea. Casting was sloppy as already discussed. I like Michael Lord. If he reigned the character in a bit, I think I would have liked where his Curtis was going though I have to wonder if his over the top antics as Curtis didn't inspire Nixon to push Curtis over the edge and destabilize his mental health. Besides casting, the story with Tess and Buck was time consuming. By the time Trucker and Buck's father is introduced, even Guza and Taggert realize this was too much and wrap the story up and start sending everyone in different directions. Guza and Taggert may be the ones to reach the closest to the true potential of "Loving." Nixon's return in September 1993 promised to continue the greatness of the previous year, but Nixon really shifted things in her own direction. Her period, while definitely enjoyable, is probably one of the roughest transitions only to be surpassed by going from Munisteri to Walsh while Walsh is trying to establish the college set. Nixon blows up the Jeremy / Ava / Leo / Shana story which had constantly found ways to keep everyone in the same orbit in favor of downplaying the business angle (Leo defaulted on his loan that Shana gave him in exchange for him fathering her child leaving Shana as owner of Burnell's) and focused on Patti's developmental issues while never fully committing to whether or not she had any issues. The dead Kuwait story was revived with a very alive Dante Partou meaning that the only Middle Eastern character on the show was a Stefano Dimera-esque super villain. Nixon rids herself of the college campus in short order. By November, Casey runs out of money so he drops out of school and Steffi gets a modelling offer so she leaves college. By January, Tess has roped Jeremy into a partnership at the ad agency. 35 Maple Street disappears. In its place, Nixon establishes the ad agency, which became a critical piece of the final years of "Loving" and the short run of "The City." The ad agency harkened back to one of Nixon's original goals for the series by centering the show on a young female lead in the media (Merrill Vochek). The ad agency ends up being an excellent setpiece and makes the loss of the college palatable. Class distinctions are downplayed, but subtle. Trucker and Dinahlee reuniting at the video rental store definitely reminds the audience that these two may have been in the Alden orbit, but neither truly fit in there. It's hard to imagine Isabelle Alden in the video store to return her copy of "A Summer Place." While Casey is presented as a struggling artist, his artist loft space is huge. A beautiful set but the smaller repurposed apartment that the Bowmans had shared (and I'm pretty sure dated back to the early/mid 1980s) was more reflective of how Casey should have been living given his source of income. The Donovan home remains the epitome of working class comfort with Angie's home matching that energy with a prominent use of African art and other decorations. The bike shop, introduced by Walsh, remains as the central workplace for working class men like brothers Trucker and Buck. Robert Lupone's seedy loan shark is less memorable than his run several years earlier under Munisteri as Michael Rescott's alcoholic musician father. Where Nixon excells is in the story and the couples. The Clay / Steffi pairing should by no means work, but it does. Steffi's daddy issues, Clay's daughter issues, the potential rivalry between younger and older alpha Alden male, and just Dennis Parlato and Amelia Heinle's understanding of their characters make the story engaging. Nancy Addison Altman's addition as Deborah gives Steffi a very tangible reason for the audience to sympathize with her. And brava to Altman for not fearing to play the ugliness of Deborah. Steffi's bulimia is a very compelling arc for the character. Steffi's friendship with Tess enhances both characters. In another case of pairings that shouldn't work, but do, Tess and Cooper help to round out the new quad. Cooper going after the blond former nanny plays on his trauma. Tess, while not completely aware of Cooper's story, senses enough that she knows what they are doing is wrong and knows that it won't last. The decision to reveal that Tess had been anorexic in the past during her modeling days as well as at the start of her marriage to Dante was a nice way to connect Tess and Steffi's stories. A bit lost in the shuffle though is Casey and Ally, who after Cooper is revealed to be a louse are going to finally get their happily ever after. The problem is happy endings are not the fodder of great soap opera so they flounder a bit. Ally's choice to be a stay at home mom is compelling, but not a rich source of drama. Casey's desire to provide his family with a home while affluent Cooper is able to provide Tyler with everything is a great source of strain on Casey and Ally's marriage. Buck and Stacey are wonderful together. Tying Buck to other parts of the canvas was smart. Utilizing him as Egypt's partner in crime allowed us to see another side of Buck and confirmed that Buck's stories would always be about how his past would come back to haunt him as the man he is now. Stacey is less active in this period, which is disappointing. I did appreciate her being pulled into Curtis' orbit towards the end of Nixon's run and would have loved to see where that would have gone. I would have liked to see Stacey reacting to Janie. Janie was such a brilliant addition to the show. An African American Ava Rescott, the young woman came on the scene with such a presence and such a personality. She was one of Angie's kidnappers who Angie learned was actually in an abusive relationship with the man holding Angie hostage. The very hurt Janie had a tendency to lash out at others to prevent them from ever causing her any pain again. Janie was a character who was just allowed to travel the canvas. Frankie liked her, Angie wanted to help her, Cooper wanted to know what she knew about Clay's secret, Gwyn mothered her, and she was Buck's daughter. The character had the ability to enter any scene and add some energy that wasn't there. The main crux of the Nixon run though was the Curtis / Trucker / Dinahlee story. This story was a twist on the two friends loving them the same woman plot by throwing in Curtis' PTSD as well as the lingering question of Trisha's fate. The highlight of this to me is Curtis pretending Trisha is still alive to keep Trucker and Dinahlee apart because, in the end, Curtis was right even if his intentions were malicious. Dinahlee had well been established as a lead heroine at this point so this was probably her strongest period in that position stuck between loving Trucker and wanting to save Curtis from himself. Nixon's departure after almost a year in August 1994 signaled a significant shift in the canvas. The lightheartedness of the show was definitely replaced with a stronger sense of drama with a very somber tone. Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh's run was much more effective than Walsh's first, but Walsh and McCarthy had been working with Nixon for a better part of a year. Though they immediately dropped potentially interesting elements of the canvas (Janie is quickly killed in a plane crash and Ava gaining control of AE is quickly squashed) while enhancing other neglected parts of the canvas. Casey's mental health crisis leading to drug overuse and addiction is compelling material. Steffi and Cooper's tragic romance culminating in Clay's deception by having Steffi believing that her mother and boyfriend are having an affair is heart breaking material leading to a Steffi's flashbacks of her mother accusing her father of having incestuous feelings for her. Casey and Steffi reconnecting during this period is a powerful use of their history and gives the show a chance to play a different beat. Walsh and McCarthy revive the gothic tone with the introduction of Gilbert. Masquerading as Jeremy is not as compelling as it is when Gilbert kidnaps Ava and Sandy bringing them to the church. The church set is evocative of the mood the show is looking to capture. Marian Seldes as Gilbert's kidnapper/"mother" brings the right mix of menace and concern to the part. The resolution of that story, Alex shooting an unarmed Gilbert, had the potential to set in motion some dramatic material. Trucker and Dinahlee and Buck and Stacey both fall into the story abyss during this period. Dinahlee is recast with Elizabeth Mitchell when Jessica Collins' contract is up. Mitchell is given a heavy story to play off the bat; Dinahlee loses her baby and is badly hurt requiring her to receive physical therapy. Buck and Stacey just struggle to find anything before Buck clearly just becomes Tess' himbo. The stark tone of the show is jarring at first, but is mostly manageable until it isn't. Clay's hit and run is probably the last strong story the show tells before going into yet another major direction. I've already gone on too long and my feelings about Essensten and Harmon Brown are too clouded by the damage they did.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
I've often considered trying to figure out a way to make Kirk Cranston and Peter Flint a single character. For several years, I've reimagined a version of "Santa Barbara" where Peter's entrance to the world of the Capwells was through Channing Capwell, Jr. Upon learning Santana was pregnant, and discovering Sophia's diary which revealed he was Lionel's son, a very shaken Channing flees from Santa Barbara and finds refuge in Miami with a hustler named Antonio Fiore. Channing confides all his secrets to Antonio. It would be very clear that Channing was also paying Antonio for sex. Channing would have shared enough details about the Capwells and the denizens of "Santa Barbara" that when Antonio learned of Channing's passing, he made his way to Santa Barbara with the intention of capitalizing on the Capwell's grief to integrate himself into a family he had come deeply, obsessively connected to. Antonio/Peter's desire to be a Capwell wouldn't necessarily be driven by greed, but having grown up in poverty, the elegant trappings wouldn't hurt. Never having known his father, Antonio/Peter would be drawn to C.C.'s strenght and power. Peter would literally fashion himself after Channing with the intention of filling the dead man's spot in the family. He would dress like him, dye his hair blond to be like him, and even, at times, attempt to recreate Channing's relationships with Santana, as well as Lindsay. With this goal in mind, Peter arrives in Santa Barbara claiming to be a friend of Channing's from his Miami days, a fellow playboy heir who had fallen out with his family prior to their untimely death. By retelling Channing's story, he built immediate bonds with C.C. (out of grief) and Kelly (out of guilt) while something more intensely sexual, but unrequited would happen with Eden. The tension between Eden and Peter would cause Eden to flee to Europe when Peter and Kelly announced their engagement. Peter would be deeply ill from the beginning. A Ted Bundy type who had wormed his way into the Capwell family. The suggestion would be fairly early on that Peter may be Channing's killer as he would be in possession of Channing's diary as he was reliving the young man's life to pattern himself off the dead boy. During at least one of his schemes to maintain power, he would pass himself off as Channing. Peter's attempts to be Channing would amp the power struggle between Mason and Peter and with Peter's occasional flirtation with Santana things would only continue to percolate. Peter would emerge as a surprising ally for Santana, offering to help Santana locate the child she was looking for. In exchange, Peter would ask Santana to keep tabs on Mason for him as Mason had started digging into Peter's past when it emerge that Peter wasn't as he claimed when an old client of Antonio recognized him at a Capwell society function leading to Peter murdering the society matron, who Mason had been pumping for information about Peter. When Peter murdered Geraldine Wentworth, Mason was on his way to meet with her and is on the scene when the body is found. Mason is accused of murder, but quickly released when it becomes clear that it was not possible for Mason to be the murderer. Mason would instantly blame Peter, but Peter's alibi ends up leaving Mason shook; Santana vowages for him. It is at this point that Santana begins to wonder what she has gotten herself into. Kelly is still doing a push and pull with Joe, but is drawn to Peter's strength. Furthermore, I think, at least initially, Joe's pursuit of Kelly would be purely based on his need to clear his name by giving him access to the Capwell resources, but Joe's feelings would never truly go away. The abuse of Kelly's trust would be revealed just as Eden was returning from Europe determined to get Peter for herself. To that extent, Eden would suggest to Kelly that Peter and Santana's friendship ran much deeper having spotted them in a rather tender, intimate moment. Kelly, mad at Joe still and unable to cope with her feelings, would lash out at Peter calling off the wedding. Meanwhile, Eden would suggest to Peter that Kelly was still in love with Joe. Eden would worm her way into Capwell in a department working closely with Peter and the groundwork for a 80s power couple would be in the making until more and more bodies would start piling up as the Carnation Killer struck. Cruz would discover Lindsay and realize that Channing was bisexual. Mason would also discover the connection between Lindsay and Channing and have Lindsay join him in a law practice. Lindsay's arrival on the scene would be a threat to Peter because Channing had shared with Lindsay details of his experience in Miami. How much Lindsay knew would be unknown to Peter but he wouldn't let that stop him from trying to kill Lindsay as well. On the night he intended to kill Lindsay, Peter proposed to Eden that they flee to the islands to get married much to Eden's delight. While they drank the bottle of champagne on the runway, Eden slowly passed out. Peter rushed over and attempted to gain Lindsay's confidence to let him get close enough to kill him. When Eden awoke, she and Peter were in the Dominican Republic where they married before returning to "Santa Barbara." Eden calls home to announce she is returning and receives shocking news: Lindsay Cunningham was attacked and remains in a coma. Peter doesn't like the loose end and plans to resolve the issue. Kelly, in the meantime, has put some things together when she and Santana compare notes. As Kelly prepares to confront her former fiancee, Peter and Eden arrive to announce their marriage leaving Kelly looking like a scorned woman when she accuses Peter of being little more than a con artist and suggesting he may in fact be a murderer. When Peter attempts to locate Lindsay, he learns that Mason has moved him to a private facility and is unable to locate him. Santana and Kelly have found Channing's diary and learn that Channing's last entries, dating from Miami, make it clear that many of things Peter has claimed were not accurate. Now convinced that Peter is Channing's killer, Kelly becomes very frightened for Eden. C.C. agrees to host a party to celebrate the marriage, and Peter decides to confront Kelly once and for all. Realizing how deranged Peter is, a frightened Kelly attempts to flee before Peter attacks her. Santana is there for Kelly when she begins to process all her pain. Ginger Jones has arrived and is blackmailing Peter. Eden reveals to Peter that Lindsay has awaken and his location and Peter rushes off to murder Lindsay once and for all only to learn it is a ruse. Cruz has him arrested. Eden remains in denial and blames Kelly and Mason for their duplicity in railroading her husband. Joe and Kelly, who have reunited, are a constant reminder of Eden's own unhappiness. Eden hires an attorney for Peter, which infuriates the Capwell clan, but things escalate when Peter ends up on bail as Eden has used her father's name to find a sympathetic judge. An unhinged Peter corners Santana and reveals that he believes he is the real Channing Capwell. This all occurs during a dinner party where the Lockridges and the Capwells are gathered at the Capwell mansion to build a truce in order to support their children Laken and Ted. Peter goes on and on about how the Channing they knew and loved was an imposter, unnerving Minx who was among the crowd. C.C. embraces Peter as the prodigal son returning home only to struggle with the gun, the same gun that killed Channing, leaving both C.C. and Peter shot. Peter dies, while C.C.'s fate is left up in the air for a bit before he starts to recover. Eden holds a sparsely attended funeral for her late husband. Ginger Jones arrives and reveals to Eden what she knew about Peter/Antonio. Eden, with Mason's help, is able to track down Peter's mother in New Jersey living in a rundown tenement. From the woman's landlady, Mason and Eden learn of Antonio's unhappy childhood of abuse at the hands of his alcoholic mother. When they finally meet the woman, both Mason and Eden decide not to tell her the truth and instead say they were just looking to find them. Eden is more enraged to learn that her husband was not the monster people made him out to be. Eventually, once the truth about Kelly's child came out, Eden would vow she would get Peter's child away from her sister even if it cost her everything else.
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Joe Perkins was probably not convicted of murder, but rather voluntary manslaughter, which in California could have been a six year sentence. I imagine Joe was a model prisoner so maybe he got out a year early for good behavior. Though if this was the case, that should have been a bigger argument between C.C. and Mason that Mason wasn't able to get the murder charges to stick. Voluntary manslaughter would make a bit more sense though because the gun used to kill Channing was C.C.'s so if the argument was Joe arranged a meeting with Channing, it's unlikely he planned to kill him as he didn't bring the weapon to the scene of the crime. The Perkins parents were miscast. In concept, John and Marissa had interesting layers that had potential to provide rich, dynamic elements to the canvas the Dobsons created. Valorie Armstrong and Robert Alan Browne just were the actors to do that. John Perkins came off as a Marlon Brando-type. One of the few planned stories in the bible for the Perkins family that wasn't used (nor developed beyond an idea) was for John to become involved with graft while working as a union organizer based on a similar situation in "On the Waterfront." During the earthquake, I would have just destroyed the Perkins home and then reveal that the insurance company had quietly dropped the Perkins policy after the attack on the house when Joe returned home. This would give further fuel to the fire between John and Joe. This would have left the Perkins homeless. C.C. would have seen this as an opportunity to drive the Perkins out of Santa Barbara and would have terminated John from his job with Capwell Enterprises. Again, John would blame Joe. The unexpected hero for the family would be Jade, who would move the family into the motel the kids had bought. I would have had the Perkins operate the motel for a bit and struck up a surprising alliance between John Perkins and Paula Kelly's Ginger Jones who would have kept her girls at the motel as well as utilizing the rooms for their work. Joe shouldn't have been killed off. After Peter died, I would have had Kelly learn that she was pregnant, possibly with Peter's child. She would consider her options, but Joe would find out and before things could be talked out the entire Perkins family would be celebrating the impending arrival of their first born while the Capwells had more of a mixed reaction. Kelly would confess the truth to Joe, who would initially be supportive, but later would struggle with the fear that this child he raised would be just like Peter. I would have had Joe talked things over with Brick Wallace given the circumstances of Brick's paternity. Joe needed a more stable profession. Given his handyman work, I would have probably had him working construction, which would have offered him the opportunity to help rebuild the family home. I think Joe's boss would have been some old love interest of Marissa's who had lost out on Marissa to John. This relationship between Joe and his boss would escalate tension between John and Joe especially if John had ended up sleeping with Augusta rather than her brief fling with the mattress salesman and Marissa decided she wanted to give her old flame a chance. Kelly and Joe would have continued to prepare for the baby while also worried that the child may in fact be Peter's and Kelly's fears about how Joe would handle this. Also, Joe being cleared of Channing's murder should have lead to an attempted reconcilliation between Joe and the Capwells and Joe and his father which would only escalate when Julia Wainwright, with some urging from Lionel and Augusta, convinced Joe to file a civil suit against the Capwells for railroading him into a convinction for Channing's death leading to his wrongful imprisonment. During the civil case, Mason continues to suggest that C.C. just payout but pompous C.C. is goaded by Lionel and Augusta into continuing the case because a payout would suggest that C.C. was guilty. Kelly, now very late in her pregnancy, would return home because she feels that Joe has become consumed by his desire to make her family pay, while Joe cannot understand how Kelly can still defend them. At home, Kelly starts having "Rosemary's Baby" esque dreams including one in which her blond haired son is covered in blood and carrying a carnation. Sophia quickly pieces together what is going on and confronts Kelly about the paternity. Kelly opens up to Sophia, which potentially causes tension with Eden. Sophia says the only way to have piece of mind is to have testing done after the baby is born despite the fact that Kelly and Joe previously agreed not to. John, who has had a change of heart when Joe is cleared, pushes Joe to reunite with Kelly and convinces Marissa she needs to let their son be a man and not hold on to him so tightly. Joe would return to Kelly just in time for the baby's birth. It is a joyous moment in which Joe recommits to Kelly and their child because, in Joe's eyes, this is their child no matter what. Kelly starts to reconsider the testing again, but Sophia, fearing for Kelly's sanity in the long run, convinces her to do the testing. Even if only briefly, I would bring in Dr. Olivia Andrade, Rosa and Ruben's mentioned but never seen daughter, to help with the testing. Olivia would confirm Kelly's worst fears: the child is Peter's. Joe would win the civil case and receive a hefty settlement which he would use to build his dream home for Kelly and their child. He would also buy into the construction busines he worked for with Marissa's old flame and expand on the business into property development. His plan is one day to go toe to toe with the C.C. Capwells of the world. Eventually, the child would get sick and the paternity issue is threatened to be unveiled, but Olivia returns and works with Kelly to keep it quiet except that someone (Kirk? Gina? Keith?) overhears some conversations and pieces together what happened. Kelly would end up being blackmailed or someone else in the Capwell clan would be. At some point, there should be a situation in which Kelly shoots the blackmailer in a scene reminiscent of Channing's murder with Joe walking in to find Kelly over the body with Joe working with the Capwells to keep Kelly's secret. My main point is there were places to go with Joe and Kelly and with the Perkins family.
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One Life to Live Tribute Thread
Not sure about the origins, but it looks like the reveal of Mary's parentage is February / March 1982. In January 1982, Melinda Cramer has written a letter detailing the baby switch which Dorian dismisses and Peter Jansen seems concerned about. Marcello gets a hold of the letter and realizes the baby switch must be true. In February, during sweeps, Marcello tells Katrina what has been said in the letter leading to Katrina confronting Karen over what has occured. In early March, Katrina knows Mary is her daughter and has gotten Herb to be her lawyer. In the same week, Katrina receives marriage proposals from Marcello (offering to help increase her chances of custody) and from Brad (to keep her quiet about the switch and to live as Mary's stepmother). By the first week of June 1982, Katrina and Mary are shipped off to Virginia Beach by Brad. Shortly after, Katrina mails a letter to Jenny revealing the whole baby switch. Katrina and Mary return at some point. Sam Hall oversaw most of the story from beginning to end, it would appear, but Gordon Russell would have been out before the story was resolved.
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Flamingo Road
Wow. Finished season 2. I've heard people over the years speak about the voodoo/occult stuff in season 2, but I don't think I ever realized how far they were leaning into it in those last few episodes. I believe in 1982 "Dark Shadows" had just been re-syndicated and was airing in the late afternoon on many NBC affiliates. I wonder if NBC's interest in a daytime version of "Flamingo Road" had anything to do with that piece of the puzzle. The final episodes are insane. I'm not sure if that's good or bad. There are things I adore (Michael tormenting Titus, who've I hated from day 1) is fun. While I understand the conceit of having David Selby play Michael's father, Tom Edwards, everyone looks dumb as hell for not being able to recognize Michael as Tom's son when he is literally a doppleganger. Had they not done so much with the Sande angle, I almost wonder if they would have revealed that Michael was in fact his own father who had just continued to live on and on. I really liked the situation with Field, Lane, and Sam. It was a very interesting place to end this grouping with a disgraced Field resigning from the senate and basically siding with Sam over Tyrone and over Titus. Lane carrying Sam's child gave that couple a happy ending that I feel they really deserved after having such a tough time finding story for the first part of the season. I wonder what they would have done with this grouping had it continued into season 3. I also wish they had played the reveal more of Field learning Lute Mae was Constance's mother and having a hint of a reconcilliation between Constance and Field as Julio emerges as the new heavy. Julio's fate was intriguing as it set the character up for the next season, though I do have to wonder how he would have fared given the direction of the show. I did like that after all of Constance's attempts to push Julio off, it was finally his turn to emerge with the sort of bravado she was looking for. I definitely could see a season 3 storyline having Sam dead or offscreen for a bit with Lane and Julio (with Constance's pressure) fighting to control the construction company. The defeat of the gambling bill by the people of Truro was interesting. The whole apocolyptical feel of the entire show at this point was kind of fun with all the sins of the father and good vs. evil stuff that the voodoo stuff sort of fits, but also sort of feels excessive. Constance learning her mother was Lute Mae was great. Her rejection of Claude was probably one of my favorite moments for Claude though I was a bit perturbed when they mentioned that Lute Mae had Constance at 16 and Claude was already married to Eudora. I don't know what the age gap was suppose to be, but it was just a surprising little detail. Constance visiting Lute Mae at the asylum was good. The secret that had been set up in the pilot film was finally revealed. Initially, I felt there was no way they were going to actually go with Skipper as potentially Elmo's son as season one Eudora was so pure and innocent. By the end of season 2, I definitely think they would have undone the paternity of Skipper had the show continued. I liked Barbara Rush going against David Selby. I also love that Eudora assumed Claude must be the killer and dumped him in the final moments of season two. I will live in a world where Eudora and Elmo reunited. I think something season 2 did much better than season 1 was establishing Flamingo Road as a place much better. I liked that when Michael ends up dead that the Weldons saunter over and that Lane and Sam are close enough by to be drawn into the drama. This is certainly no "Knot's Landing," but I liked where the show ended up in that sense. With that said, I felt it was sad that we lost Lute Mae's. I don't even know when they last showed the brothel. It was also nice to finally go into the swamp with the Titus / Julia Porter sequence. Michael in the monastery was just such a crazy ending. Season 3 would have been interesting to see. I'm also curious how a daytime version would have played out. Who do people see playing some of the roles that most likely would have been recast (Field, Lane, Constance, etc.) in a daytime version?
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Santa Barbara Discussion Thread
Regarding how SB was able to afford big names, they had a relatively small contract cast. I've seen half-hour shows with more people on contract than "Santa Barbara" often had. I think this helped as they were able to offer more money. Also, the quick-burn of characters often meant a lot of these performers weren't receiving pay raises. I'm sure New World was also happy with the international sales and was probably happy to spend a little more on casting to help sell the show abroad.
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The Doctors Discussion Thread
Penny's death happens in January, 1981, prior to Althea's return. I suspect that it was suppose to put Althea in a certain state of mind when she came back to Madison. Around the same time, the show wrote out Mike Powers, for the one hundredth time. I wonder if the show wasn't trying to use their children's absences to create a bond between Matt Powers and Althea. James Baffico had become producer in the fall of 1980 and I believe Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt were headwriting when the show wrote off Penny. They had no problem using parts of the past. Alec Baldwin had been brought back by Hunt and Ellis for the inheritance plot that brought back the character of Theodora Van Alen, Greta's aunt played by Augusta Dabney. Jerry's return is March for Nola and Jason's remarriage. The writer's strike starts in the spring so by late May the show is no longer with unionized writers. The summer is such a mess. The Kevin/Catherine Shaw stuff is just crass and ends with Jason being callously killed off. The episode featuring Jason's murder was available at one time at the Paley Center in New York. Matt and Maggie deal with Matt's impotence followed by Maggie's pregnancy. Steve is writing some book on sex. It all reads poorly. In terms of Penny, there seemed to be a hint that Jenny Wright's character Robin was suppose to be Penny, or at least a Penny surrogate, but that may just be conjecture on my part. I wish very much that Retro would release the 1980s episodes. It would be curious to see how this all played out.
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Flamingo Road
I'm rounding into the final stretch, and I do think season 2 comes together quite nicely by the time we get to "The Dedication." It took over half the season, but the show finally seems to have pulled itself together and found an identity for itself. The initial concept presented in the telefilm about the tension between those on Flamingo Road and those not on Flamingo Road with the have nots looking to move up has been replaced with a pursuit of remaining on Flamingo Road and becoming top dog. There is a lot more establishing shots lately of the eponymous address and the named sprinkled more into the dialogue. In some ways, the show's shift reminds me of the Aussie soap "Chances" that started out very low key before becoming a complete plot driven camp masterpiece. "Flamingo Road," at its best, is the power struggles between all those who have some semblance of power and are looking to maintain it or increase it. What's fascinating to me is how the Weldons, the central family, are slowly descending into this thick Southern gothicness, but never quite embracing the dyanmic. Queeny Claude has the facade of power with the family name and no real tangible control of anything in his life. His children are defiant and make their own choices and his son-in-law has seized control of his family's business. All his hopes are tied up in Michael Tyrone's plans to turn Truro into some sort of Southern gambling mecca, which would pretty much destroy the town his family has built up. Eudora's knows this is a fools errand, but no one seems to be listening. Claude scheming with Titus, who works much better now as a poor man's Lord Varys, is now fun in a bizarre Greek chorus way. Neither has any real power, not with Michael Tyrone in town. Michael really has taken control of the narrative, in a good way. Constance has shifted her Electra complex towards Michael Tyrone, her biological mother's love interest. Also, and this hasn't been completely revealed in story yet, but I believe Michael's father and Lute Mae were involved which gives the Michael-Lute Mae-Constance story even more layers. This is a story that I would have wanted to see play out well into season 3. The gambling bill arc has really pulled together the lose threads and now has created a much more cohesive canvas. The cast seems much more integrated now that Sam has been brought back into the Michael Tyrone plot. The decision to pair up Sam and Field as allies is probably one of my favorite moves of the season, among so many strong decisions. The constant shifting dynamics is fun to watch in binges, but I wonder how easy it was to follow week after week, which is something I think @All My Shadows stated years ago. Sam realizing the connection between Sande and Tyrone was great and her faux suicide attempt was a wonderful plot to prevent Field from pulling the bill. Sam and Field, together, against Tyrone is more interesting than when they each had their separate issues with Tyrone. The building tension between Lane and Field, which may be imagined on my part, is delicious. I wish they had left Sam for dead in the crash so that Lane could have briefly played the vengeful widow and had to control Sam's business interests at least briefly. Also, I would have brought Vanessa, Sam's first wife, and had her team up with Lane to enact some sort of revenge. When Sam did return, I would have had Lane and Field close and probably given Sam amnesia. After having no real use for the Sam / Lane / Field triangle, I am again intrigued by the possibilities. It might have been great for the season 2 final to have been Field believing Michael had faked his death and dragged down to the Nassau estate to find not Michael, but Sam alive and well. I was sorry to see Julio and Constance split, but, in terms of the big story, it makes sense. Constance has racked up three different love affairs this season Steve (her therapist), Julio, and Michael. I'm not even 100% sure where we are suppose to think she stands on Field anymore. Season one Constance definitely wanted power, but loved Field. I think season 2 Constance is too hard to love Field, and just wants the potential power that comes from being with him. There are times I think she cares for Julio, but other times I think Julio is pursuing emotional disaster by waiting for Constance. I do wish they had played the Sande / Julio relationship beat rather than just using the potential as a problem. Even if the relationship was just friendly, I think there was at least an episode or two of story to play with those two. Michael's double of Sande after the suicide attempt was a real shocker. Sande on the island in Nassau was also a nice surprise even if we didn't see her. The Nassau sequence kicks off the voodoo storyline that I believe is pretty prevalent in the final episodes. Esther Rolle's Julia Porter, Michael's nanny / voodoo priestess, is definitely a shift. If there was a season 3, I would have loved to see her moved to Michael's property on Flamingo Road and watch how people reacted to her presence. I'd wish they'd use Elmo more. I see him as the keeper of the town's truth among so many people who are lying and scheming. I think they could have flirted with a romantic relationship with Lupe Sanchez by the end of the season. Something to revive the Elmo / Eudora story and to solidify the Sanchez family as a prominent presence on the show. I think it would have also helped to revive the Elmo/Skipper relationship which seems very underplayed this season. As I enter the final stretch, I can see why people prefer season one. The writing was more character driven and the original premise of the haves and the havenots of Truro was intriguing, if never fully met. I do think the relationships were deeper, the characterization was richer, but the plot was weak and, at times, non-existent. After watching the entire show, I'll be curious to see what I think of season one on a rewatch, but for now, I am really enjoying the power plays of season two.
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Flamingo Road
Constance and Field's marriage works better this second season than it did in the first. Constance is more active in the story, and Field is no longer being given a sympathetic light. Their "War of Roses" style relationship is a real highlight. It does come at the cost of Sam and Lane. They feel very disjointed in terms of the rest of the story. When they have stories cross in Tallahassee, I almost forget how strong the Lane and Field story was at the start of season 1 and that they even planned on getting married. Was it mentioned in the pilot or season 1 that Field was a lawyer? Or was that a sudden revelation. It works, but it just seems very sudden. The Julio railroading story was good and that worked well especially with Field asking him about the affair. I enjoy Julio much more than I expected. He truly cares for Constance, and I think (secretly) Constance loves him too. Right now, Julio has delivered the goods to Constance: Sande and Field are having an affair. The one upmanship in Field and Constance's marriage makes me want them together even though I really like Julio and Constance. The bombing gave Skipper more story. I feel like he is back in the thick of things. A blinded Skipper gives season 1 Skipper vibes, which I liked. Alicia is a sweet girl and I wish they had done a better job building Alicia and Skipper as a couple because there are interesting angles to explore. I am really mad that the bombing at the Clarion hasn't led to the unveiling of Claude and Titus being behind the paper mill fire. Eudora's coddling of Skipper annoyed me until Eudora explained her rationale, which I was willing to play along with. I don't like the direction Eudora has taken in these post- sanitarium episodes. I was hoping for a stronger Eudora working with Sam on the barrio project, but that's mostly been an abandoned plot point. Elmo is also rejuvenated a bit by the Clarion bombing as he seems more central to the story again. The Eudora and Elmo scenes were a little thin for me as I would have liked a little more subtext. I guess I'll have to take what I can get. Michael Tyrone's backstory seems to be finally underway. I wonder at what point it was decided he was going to have history in Truro because that feels like a last minute change. The show is very plot heavy so it's not too surprising. I'm liking Lute Mae and Michael a lot more than I expected. I also loved Claude using his history with Lute Mae to get to Tyrone, which just shows how sh%tty a person Claude is. Lute Mae being wined and dined is great as we have seen how Michael (like Titus) manipulates others for his purpose. I do like the revived Michael / Sam animosity as it brings Sam and Lane back into the story. I really liked Sam and Lane's wedding. Their engagement was quick. The fact that Julio was best man after Julio's entrance story shows how out of touch Sam and Lane were with the rest of the canvas. I appreciate they brought Carl Turner back for the bachelor party. I thought the film was going to turn out to be something Lute Mae had starred in. Cynthia Sikes is very attractive in the role of Sande Swanson. I like how they haven't completely revealed the entire connection yet. I'm curious to see where the Michael / Sande stuff goes based on the broad outline I've read of the story. I feel like mid-season 2, the show is coming together well in a very plot driven sense, but it lacks the season one dynamics and characterization that made that memorable. As of now, though, I'd still say I prefer season 2.
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Flamingo Road
I'm towards the middle of season 2. I thought the addition of the Sanchez family was smarter even though the execution is not amazing, but this seems to be a universal issue on the show. I think we are suppose to see Julio Sanchez as a hot head for blaming Sam Curtis for Ernesto's death, but Sam was wrong. Sam chose to worry about the bottom line rather than his employees and I don't think Julio was wrong for that. Lupe's initial conversations with Eudora and Constance about the dress shop were very interesting. I doubt they go anywhere, but I feel like that would have been an interesting place to explore. The idea of introducing the Cuban element into "Flamingo Road" was intriguing even though the writers went with the most stereotypical route with so much of the storytelling elements there. I like that the ownership of the barrio was a big deal and the fact that the Weldons were slumlords was presented as problematic. I just wish more time was spent on the positive elements of the barrio given how toxic the relationships were in the Weldon realm. Alicia and Skipper are sweet, but underdeveloped. A C-story at best with very little movement, which is a shame because I think there were places to explore with Skipper. I would have liked more of a reaction on his end to Field, Skipper's father's "preferred" son, taking over the mill. Also, given Skipper's rowdy backstory with his time at Lute Mae's, I imagine the more reserved Alicia might not pleased about Skipper's former playboy ways. I like Julio. Fernando Allende is very attractive. Maybe not the strongest actor in the group, but more competent than I been informed. I like that Julio, not Constance, is the one who has reservations about having an affair. I thought that was a very nice flip on the stand point and also worked a bit to go around the Latin Lover trope. Eudora suggesting Julio to be Field's aide is wonderful. Speaking of Constance's lovers, I thought Steve was fine, but I feel like the scope of Steve's arc ended up playing out several episodes later with Tony and Lute Mae. If they were going to do that, it would have been nice to at least intersect the stories. Constance has come into her own this season. Morgan Fairchild benefitted the most from the second season from what I've seen so far. Everyone else seems to be struggling in the new world of not as interesting. I can see why season one is preferred by some as the characters were better drawn in season one, but there was no story. Now, we have story, but the characters are pretty paper thin unless we need a good mid episode plot twist. Lane and Sam are coming back into focus. Separating them from Field was good in a sense (I don't feel the triangle had much mileage left in it), but I don't think TPTB know what to do with Lane and Sam. Lane's father was a brief beat, and her music career had some promise (but that was also dropped). Sam and Tyrone are initial the main enemies before Tyrone settles in on the Weldons. Michael Tyrone has been a major mover and shaker. I don't know where season 2 would have went without him. I like his plans for the resort and how they would impact the community of Truro from those on Flamingo Road to those living in the barrio. I do wonder at what point his backstory in Truro was developed because I don't get that sense at all that he is a man returning specifically to town. I like how he has his hands in everything, which really does help. With Michael around, I feel Titus has even less purpose and I am much happier with him in a reduced role. Similarly, I do enjoy that Michael shows how inept Claude Weldon is in so many ways. I like how Claude's forgery led to Michael stealing the mill from the Weldons only to turn it over to Field, which was such a fun move. Elmo's run for sheriff was a fun surprise and the story about his wife was very sad. I wish Elmo and Eudora appeared more often together. I did appreciate the Claude / Lute Mae scene during Claude's downfall leading to both the Lute Mae / Constance / Eudora scene and the Claude nearly spilling the beans to Constance scene. Constance's paternity is such a labyrinth plot that could even be more far reaching if they would allow characters to react to the news. Tony's final stand was disappointing in terms of the character's arc. I guess the Tony that left town reminded me of the Tony that showed up with Christie in season one, but it was rather disappointing. I think Tyrone should have brought Christie back to town to mess with Field. Field and Sande's affair is a non-factor to me because of how it developed in comparison to Julio / Constance. Sande seems to be the new Lane, which is fine with me. I'm curious to see how the season ends.
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The Doctors Discussion Thread
I'm sure there is someone better to respond, but I'll give this a shot. Barbara Lang played Marilyn Langley. The production company was told fairly late I feel (early November) with a conclusion in December. I know that Hilary Bailey Smith talked about the Alden Curse storyline was intended as a contract negotiation tool. I feel like Phillip attends the wedding. Isn't he arrested at the wedding? I also think the Felicia/Adrienne switch happens very, very late. Like right before the wedding because there is a very bizarre exchange between Jeff and Adrienne about Adrienne not remembering things. The final year of "The Doctors" fascinates me. Actually most of the 1980s of "The Doctors" fascinates me. I just hope they release some of that period in the near future. Nola returned pregnant by A.C. Weary's character, I think.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Rebecca Staab as Cece. This is a little less memorable than the others for me. The break up of Steve and Trisha doesn't do much for me. I do like some of the places they are trying to go, but its too much high drama. I like the conceit that Steve is choosing his father over Trisha as I cannot think of another time a father-son dynamic has played out like that. Usually, it's the meddling mother with her Oedipus-esque relationship with her son. I don't think I knew that Cabot and Jack had worked at the Alden Foundation together. I like that idea. Ava manipulating both Tony (unsuccessfully) and Cabot (more successfully) was probably the highlight. I liked Tony talking about the orphanage. I wonder if he and Rita Mae broke up onscreen or if it was something that happened after Pamela Blair's contract was up. The groundwork for the Zona story is being laid with Linc remaining mysterious about the women in his past and being raised around three brothers. I find Linc and the Beechams provided a nice conflict for the Aldens.
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Flamingo Road
@danflingThe aesthetic is definitely old fashioned even though its set in the 1980s. Truro is a relic from the past with very old rules determining how people operate. In the pilot film, this is contrasted a bit with Sam Curtis, who's morals were more modern and who spent time in cities like Miami. The old fashioned names that @Paul Ravenmentioned are also part of the aesthetic. I think it could have worked, but there need to be more contrast with outsiders who didn't accept the old fashioned ways. @MichaelGLI've only seen bits and pieces of Rita Lakin's work on "The Doctors." There are some ideas that seem very Lakin, but aren't always executed as well as Lakin did in daytime. Some people really love the first season. I don't think it was terrible. I'm two episodes into season 2. The opener is pretty strong. It was nice to see the cast interacting as much as they did with Constance in the hospital. I do find that story, Constance's paralysis, compelling because it impacts not just Field's career but Constance's life. I sort of wish this effort had been put into the car accident story the prior season with Christie Kovacs. The chapel scene between Lute Mae and Claude with Eudora listening in the wings was delightful. I also enjoyed the relationship between Eudora and Lute Mae in the aftermath with Eudora being grateful that Lute Mae offered her the opportunity to have raise Constance. I felt that was a great approach. Lute Mae dropping the bomb of Constance's maternity on Lane and Sam was great, but I wish more was done with that. I liked the dynamic between Titus and Constance. Morgan Fairchild definitely is given a stronger point of view this season so far. She seems to have more agency. I like her having control of her marriage and for her to be a poltiical mover and shaker in her own way. Mark Harmon has sorta settled into the role of Field as an entitled man who's whole life has been dictated by others. I also noticed there was no follow through on the Slade/Harrison Brandt story for which I was thankful. Such an bad story. I have been disappointed we haven't had much Eudora/Elmo, but that one night was suppose to be just one night. Episode 2 of season 2 provides a story that seems to fit into season one a bit more. The show introduces the wealthy Hunter family of Flamingo Road with Robert Rockwell (I think he was one of Jo's beaus on SFT) as the father and Sharon Acker (Judith on TEX and on Lakin's previous project "Executive Suite") as the mother. Peter Horton gives a pretty memorable performance as their son who rapes Lute Mae and gets away with it (at least initally). There are some nice sequences with Stella Stevens and Joel Bailey. I'm surprised that I'm enjoying Tony as much as I am with Lute Mae. Not sure how long that lasts. Looking forward to the arrival of the Sanchez family and Michael Tyrone.
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Flamingo Road
I was finally able to make it through season one. The pilot telefilm is fine. I like the distinctions in class that are drawn with the idea of Flamingo Road being the affluent party of the community with the Weldons home, while the Eagle Cafe was part of the working class section near River Street where Annabelle Troy lived. Lute Mae's bordello seems to be a meeting of the classes, which I really liked. Lane Ballou declaring that she, one day, will make it to Flamingo Road on her own merits was a nice setup, but I'm not sure how much the first season lives up to that promise. The tragic affair between Annabelle and Skipper was wonderful. I think Annabelle needed to die in order to propel Skipper, who still struggles to find his place both in the story literally and metaphorically. I wish they had spent a little more time on Skipper and Christie Kovacs, who I felt had the potential to be wonderful. I wish they had played on the fact that Christie looked a little bit like Annabelle with Christie using that to her advantage or her dying her darker hair blond to play on the resemblance. I like the Sam Curtis of the telefilm more than I do the Sam Curtis of the first season. In the pilot movie, Sam is more laid back and carefree. While the Weldon clan represents that old money, Sam is definitely the representation of the nouveaux riche. Sam setting up shop in the brothel was about as much business as it was pleasure in the pilot, whereas it seemed more like business in the first because it was a place where you could have cladenstine political meetings. While I understand some of the changes, Lane's love is suppose to tame him, I wasn't so thrilled with the way Sam never returned to that version for a stretch when Lane and Field reunited at the end of season 1. On the other hand, I liked how Constance Weldon Carlyle evolves from simple spoiled little rich girl in the pilot to a more active manipulator throughout the first season. I don't like the opener of the first season. It's one of the reasons I struggle to watch the show, but I like how they laid the grown work with Constance offering herself to Nick in order to save herself and Field. Constance loves Field. It would have been interesting to have seen more of what Constance and Field were like before Lane arrived in town. I haven't seen much ever mentioned about Constance's political power. She makes some shrewd (and some miscalculated) moves. I thought Constance outing Field's opponent as a Klansman was wild (while I loved Elmo's speech about how the press had known for years but kept queit because Constance was misrepresenting facts). In the current political climate, that moment really resonated. Also, Constance winning over some bigwigs when Field was on his downward slide was interesting. Let's not forget Constance's attempt to Clean Up Truro by having Lute Mae's brothel closed. The Lute Mae / Constance / Eudora dynamic is very interesting. Constance is clearly a Daddy's girl and alligned with Claude. I wish that Claude had made it clear to the audience that he resented Skipper (his namesake) because he assumed Skipper was Elmo Tyson's son. It would have just been enough to push Eudora more over the edge when she learned that adopted daughter Constance was Claude's. Constance makes it clear that she and Eudora are too different at the wedding when Constance lets Eudora know that she wants it all. With that said, it is Eudora who constantly brings up Constance's adoption which makes me think that Constance might have solid reasons to not like Eudora. Constance looking down on Lute Mae because of her status, while Lute Mae is willing to destroy a relationship with replacement daughter Lane is just great. I love Eudora and Elmo. I wish they would explore Elmo a little more. There were hints that he and Mary Troy were close at one point, but that Elmo was married already. I would love to know more about that marriage. The slow burn between Elmo and Eudora all season that leads to the hurricane is wonderful. They are definitely the duo I most want together. On the otherhand, I don't really care one way or another for Lute Mae and Claude. I like Lute Mae, but Claude is just such an unlikeable character. His soft spot for Constance only fuels her malicious behavior. If there were more attempts to soften Claude at least a little bit, I could enjoy him. Field is much more interesting to me this go around than he has in the past. I don't really care for him with either of his female leads at the start. Constance loves him and needs to be loved whether that is because of her daddy complex or some adoption issues, there is enough reasons that Constance's need for Field works for me. Lane's initial position, I've been hurt and I don't want to get hurt again, is nice, but I don't think it works in terms of her having the longer relationship with Sam. I actually found the Christie Kovacs affair refreshing because there was no attempt to pretend it was anything other than what it was. Field's alcoholism seems to build all season and I feel like this is something that gets dumped in season 2, no? Christie Kovacs was probably the most fascinating piece of season one. For a season that is very slow burning, Christie comes on like lighter fluid accelerating several of the plots. It was such a tonal switch. I thought Christie and Field's liasion was a fun jolt and the Chappaquiddick-esque automobile accident that scarred Christie solidified Field as a morally ambigious JFK type with Titus acting as the Joe Kennedy of the situation. I liked that Christie representing the working class that was underrepresented, but laid out as a signifcant part of the show's fabric in the pilot. I wouldn't say Christie was terribly well defined, but there was a lot of untapped potential. Similarly, Alice Kovacs was in the same boat. Did we even get a real Alice and Claude scene despite her unrequited feelings for him. Of the more stand alone episodes, "A Mother's Revenge" with Mary Troy was probably the best. The Mary / Titus relationship was great. Lane being able to emotionally manipulate Mary into staying quiet was probably one of my favorite uncomforable moments. The twist with Titus having raped Mary and fathered Annabelle was tragic. Howard Duff's Titus is very bizarre. I don't know if I think he is one of the best villains or one of the lamest. I found the sequences with the Turner family intriguing. Carl Turner is hired to run the construction project with Titus forcing him to use Cuban labor. I really wasn't sure what the point was, but I imagine there was some sort of kick back for Titus. Titus trying to railroad George Turner was terrible. I was actually surprised to see that they kept Carl on throughout the first season and had him getting sick with the poisoning from the mill. I really liked when the mill came into play midseason when Skipper planned to leave Truro for the job with the New Orleans paper. Claude's accident requiring Skipper to take the lead at the mill was nice as it kicked off the Christie Kovacs stuff. I wish they had played Skipper at the mill longer or at least had Constance butting into the office politics on the behalf of Claude, who wouldn't trust Skipper to handle things. I like Joel Bailey as Channing, Jr.'s bisexual lover Lindsay on "Santa Barbara," but I found Tony very unmemorable and was sorta shocked that they brought him back towards the end to be a potential love interest for Lute Mae. That sequence made me like Tony a bit more, but I didn't really know what propelled them to do that. I liked the idea that Tony would need work because the mill was closed, but Tony's natural conclusion seemed to be when the Kovacs faded from the scene. While the Christie story's pacing bothered me, I at least enjoyed that story. The Slade murder plot didn't really fit into the canvas and stuck out like a sore thumb. I still don't know why Harrison Brandt wanted Lane back or why she had to leave or why he had to kill all those people. It just seemed very plot heavy and reminded me of the Lorca / the Walkers stuff at the start of the season which I didn't like. The final episodes of the season were great. I loved Sam and Constance ending up together at the seedy motel and leaving us up in the air as whether they did or didn't (it seemed like they did though). I really liked when Field and Lane reunited after the car accident and Field and Titus went head to head over Field taking control of his own life. I liked the conflict with the mill poisoning the water and how Lane again defended Field even if I don't think either side was right in this. Eudora and Elmo ending up together for one night during the hurricane after Eudora drank several sips of brandy was also wonderful. I found Peter Donat surprisingly attractive this go around. Everyone trapped at Lute Mae's with that great exchange between Lute Mae and Constance where Lute Mae suggested that in another life Constance and Lute Mae would have been business partners. Constance threatening a long and drawn out divorce action. I'm curious to see how the second season progresses with the introduction of Michael Tyrone and the Sanchez family.
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Eldorado (1992-1993)
The early episodes are not memorable. I watched the show last winter and can barely tell you what happened in the first three months. The plots are mostly light or lightly dramatic. With thin characterization, everything lacks the sort of gravitas needed to make anything worth engaging with long term. Bunny and Fizz seemed like they were suppose to be a more complicated relationship that neither the acting nor the writing lived up to. Fizz was a grifter whose motives we are suppose to question because she is clearly using Bunny, but she may truly have developed feelings for. Similarly, Bunny seems to have married Fizz on the brink of an emotional break of his own with his sister's death making him vulnerable, but Bunny wasn't really looking for a sexless marriage either so Bunny's own motives weren't pure. The nicest moment in the story was the start of the friendship between Fizz and Joy when they leave Los Barcos to go out on a shopping trip. Kathy Pitkin's Fizz is dumped by Julia Smith in Smith's final episodes. When Corinne Hollingsworth arrives in episode 42, it is an immediate turnaround. Characters start gaining more depth. Story threads start to develop over multiple episodes. Characters start interacting outside their narrow circles. Once Olive King hosts her safari night party, the show is enjoyable. Upon Hollingsworth arrival, the show starts to tell stories about characters being forced to face the past they are trying to escape. Marcus and Pilar's romance is given a bit more weight when Pilar has to deal with both a letter from Tracey talking about Marcus' baby and then later being kidnapped by the Singh brothers who are looking to avenge their father's suicide. Rosemary Webb's life in England arrives in a very real form of her son by her first husband, Stephen Law, who is determined to prove that Stanley Webb is a liar. The arrival of Natalie Jackson in Los Barcos and the impact she has on Freddie Martin's life is wonderful. Joy Slater's ex Terry Raymond coming to Los Barcos to rekindle their relationship leads to a role reversal in the relationship between Joy and Trish, which is very well done. The character who benefits the most from Hollingsworth arrival is Faith Kent's Olive King who goes from a one-note busybody to a more complex lonely spinister who acts as the defacto matriarch of Las Terrazas. Similarly, the mixed marrieds story with the Svendsens and the Leducs goes from paper thin to much more interesting with the development of Phillipe and Lene as individuals and the decision that Phillipe and Lene were going to get back at their spouses. I stopped around episode 100 and the show was still pretty strong. Alex Morris had just been introduced who seemed set to give not just Marcus and Pilar story but Trish Valentine some as well. Rosario Fernandez, who was exploring the newfound freedom that women are experiencing in Spain, has started to take college courses and found a life outside of being a wife and mother when she discovers that she is pregnant. Her pregnancy threatens her future happiness, which requires her to reflect on her own reaction to Ingrid Olson's pregnancy earlier in the year when Ingrid considered an abortion. If I were to restart the show, I'd probably suggest around episode 35 or so to see the final episodes of Fizz and see the dramatic change in those early Corinne Hollingsworth episodes. The Freddie/Natalie story is worth the viewing alone.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Thanks. I had forgotten how long that story had played out. I've toyed with "Loving" fanfiction over the years. Typically, I'd include Johnny because I felt that, like you, he was the natural pot stirrer, a male Ava who would strive for the better life. In one version, I had considered Johnny locating an amnesiac Jack Forbes and emotionally blackmailing Ava into playing in his scheme to convince Jack that Johnny was his son. Other versions just typically had him scheming as Ava's natural successor clashing with Ava's own son, Sandy. I usually liked to have his sister Ava, who I'd always call Emily so that there weren't two Avas on the canvas, as his moral compass. My version of Johnny typically would try to seduce some daughter of Zack and Lorna's. I like your thoughts @Kaneon keeping the Buck / J.J. relationship. I enjoyed Buck and J.J. and Buck and Stacey, but I really wanted them to give a real go to Stacey and Curtis. To end Buck and Stacey, I had considered having Buck work on renovating the Rodeo Bar, which would have led to a cash strapped Buck hiring a shady contractor who was cutting corners. The shoddy contractor would have caused some sort of accident at the Rodeo Bar that would have led to J.J. being blinded. J.J. wouldn't regain his sight, but rather would learn to live life as someone who could no longer see going through the cycle of emotions. Buck's guilt and Stacey's inability to move past it would have broken them up. At the same time, Stacey's involvement in J.J.'s life would have left Heather feeling alienated as Stacey was spending a significant amount of time helping J.J. adjust. This would have led to Heather spending more and more time with grandma Gwyn and Heather wanting to move in with her grandmother. There wouldn't be a custody battle, but there would be conflict as Gwyn loves Heather and wants her a part of her life, but knows that this would be killing Stacey on the inside. Curtis and Stacey would have grown closer as Curtis paid to have Stacey's house equipped to make it easier for J.J. to navigate in his home environment. Of course, Curtis would lash out at Gwyn, who wasn't malicious in the situation regarding Heather, but it would lead to Curtis and Gwyn to come to terms with their own complicated dynamic as a mother and son. Of course, after Stacey and Curtis had married, Jack would return and a whole new set of complications would arise.
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Loving/The City Discussion Thread
Thanks for alerting us to this. I'm glad more and more of this period is coming out. I think the baby lie stuff is really enjoyable. Jack going on and on about where the child would be in the future. I wish the show had survived long enough to bring back Johnny. I am still surprised that Johnny was kept around even after Jack and Ava divorced. I don't actually don't remember at what point Johnny goes back to Tug and Sheri, but I imagine it's late 1985 or early 1986. I only caught the first few minutes, but I'll comment later on the rest.
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Return To Peyton Place Discussion Thread
Regarding Gallison, there was a lot of press for the launch of the show because of the connection to the nighttime version. Gallison was announced fairly early. Do we know what role his character played on "Where the Heart Is"? He seems to be a doctor so its entirely possible it was a bit recurring role.