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I believe the period of Conboy producing Taggart and Culliton episodes was December 26, 2002-February 21, 2003. It is a very good two months. This episode features a sequence that I remember was fairly well regarded at the tiime. After months of being deceived her then husband Alan, Olivia learns everything that her husband has been up to, including changing her birth control pills. Agreeing to meet with Alan on a secluded island, Olivia lays all her cards on the table. The final line of the episode, I believe, typically found itself in the favorite dialogue threads on this boards for the next several years.

That is the scene. That is Conboy with Taggart and Culliton writing. Conboy took over mid-December if I recall. I want to say the same week Marj Dusay started appearing as Alexandra again. I believe Taggert and Culliton´s last episodes were the end of February when the bomb went off in the studio. I was making a bad joke about Chamberlain was more effective in a supporting role post-Lorelei. In particular, there was a scene about October/November, 2003, where Lizzie was pouting because she was cast as the Nurse in ¨Romeo & Juliet¨ and Beth explains to her daughter the significance of the role and, in essence, explains where she is herself in life. There were other scenes, but this one stood out. Conboy and Weston had Ben working as an escort for Eden, but Eden was a Taggart creation or a Gold/Dunn/Taggart creation. I think Taggart and Culliton may have written Eden out in their last few episodes, but Weston brought her back. I thought the initial escort angle made sense. Ben was broke and most of his stories with Matt Bomer in the role had a seedy undertone to them. I thought the serial killer storyline was fine as I hadn´t watched Ben grow up so it meant little to me. I thought the sexual abuse angle made sense for who Ben had been since returning to Springfield (placing bets on Marah´s virginity, going out with an underage Marina). I just wish it hadn´t been revealed in context of a serial killer storyline. Nowadays, I think having a character like Ben Reade becoming an internet sex worker would be an interesting twist on an old tale, but I just don´t see any of the current shows handling that kind of story well.

This is kinda where I ended up. I started watching in fall 1998 when Essensten and Harmon Brown so my standards weren´t that high. I didn´t think the Maryanne Carrouthers story was any worse than what I had seen of the Annabelle/Eli Simms story which had, at that time, a more mixed reaction than it has now. I thought Carrie Nye was deliciousy campy as Carolyn Carrouthers (I was seventeen, sue me). I remember learning to appreciate some actors I hadn´t under Conboy. Beth Chamberlain, no longer a lead but a supporting role, gave some very emotional performances as Beth that I hadn´t seen in her previous stories where she was donning a wig and an accent and writing romance novels. I feel like David Andrew Macdonald´s Edmund also seemed to find some humanity in a character who shouldn´t have had any. Also, the Conboy produced Culliton/Taggart episodes were the perfect mix of style and substance and I don´t regret that very short period at all. Conboy´s biggest issue to me was he hadn´t worked in daytime in over 15 years. The Internet had changed the way viewers interacted with the show. When he was quoted as saying he couldn´t understand why Bradley Cole had been fired given all the outcry, I knew that he was too far gone to really make an impact. No one wanted to lead ¨Guiding Light¨ in terms of headwriters or producers. Seeing what happened a few years later, I would have liked to have seen how a Gary Tomlin produced show embracing more of his ¨Days of our Lives¨ style rather than his ¨One Life to Live¨ work would have done. In regards to the nudity, Conboy´s love scenes were steamy. I seem to recall he came in right off the bat and had a very intense encounter with Grant Alexander and Crystal Chappell where Chappell´s chest was heavily featured. The mentioned Shayne and Marina scene was noteable because Shayne was paralyzed at the time. I´m surprised the Shayne scene got them fined because, if I recall correctly, that was a December/January scene and it was Daniel Cosgrove´s butt on display in February in a shower scene with Deborah Zoe´s Eden. Mark Collier had a similar scene at ¨As the World Turns¨ around the same time. The Nursery Rhyme Stalker showed the ultimate flaw of the Loving Murders, the story that it was clearly being cribbed from, once the reveal comes out, what do you do with the perpetrator? Be thankful we didn´t have to watch Michelle Bauer put Holly out with a syringe of cleaning fluid.

I´m not always perfect on the time for 1976. I think Paul and Margaret Schneider handled the departure of Christopher Reeves' Ben in May/June, 1976, when he went off to prison. I believe the recasting process began right away so the plans were already in the works for Ben´s October, 1976, return. I think the hand off from the Schneiders to Gabrielle Upton is Septemeber, 1976, so it is Upton who handles the return. Early in September, 1976, Ian Russell is introduced. Initially, I believe the setup is for a Arlene/Ian/Meg triangle, but either Upton scrapped it altogether or she grew bored and dumped it at some point. From what I can gather, Arlene lingers in the summer of 1976. Because of her seedy past, she is having trouble holding down a job and Ray does offer her a hostess job in some place he´s connected to. Ian offers the prostitution/sugar daddy situation later in the fall. It´s not entirely clear to me when Arlene / Tom started, but I suspect it was 1977 under Upton, but it could have been earlier. In the meantime, Betsy is with Jamie. Upton introduces the Marriott family in January, 1977, which shifts the story for Ben almost immediately. He runs over Jim Marriott, which leads to his death. The guilt leads him to spend time with Andrew Marriott and acts as a surrogate son, while also growing closer to Mia. Mia had a secret as well; Jim had run off the night of the accident after confessing his love for Mia. This seemed to bring the two together. I can´t remember what happens with Betsy while Liz Kemp´s contract is running out because I think Ray Wise leaves in December, 1976. After reading your post, I also rewatched the final episode. Ray needed to go. I don´t know where they would be going next with Ray and Arlene, but I would hope a trip to divorce court was on the horizon. This was the episode leading into sweeps so I would suspect that Arlene would make her choice about her future in the next few weeks. Originally, I found it odd that Marcus brought back Hal Carson, but when I thought about it more, Hal was probably heavily featured in whatever material Marcus was given leading up to her hire and just assumed Hal was a long term character and only learned he was gone when she arrived. I think the Hal / Ray dynamic makes sense due to Ray´s criminal tie and, with the large contingent of lawyers, having a police officer around would have been good if they relocated Hal to Rosehill from New York City. *** A few more comments about the first set of 1978 summaries... While it was nice to see Van, Meg, and Bruce in a front burner storyline, the storyline itself it so overwrought. I think Meg and Van fighting over a man was interesting as I don´t think that had been done since Tudi Wiggins arrived. I do wish it was someone more exciting than Ron Harper´s Andrew. The Rick/Cal/Michael/Mary Jane stuff is just bad. It does feel like Marcus reused some of this material with Rick and Cal´s fights over Cal having a baby mirroring the conflict between Ray and Arlene (though that really isn´t an uncommon conflict). The emotional situation at the lake leading to Michael´s drowning seems to echo itself in the Betsy/Ben boating incident. I don´t care about Dory. Ben and Mia fighting over offscreen Betsy is such a non-story. I do think there was potential in Mia´s car accident as it could echo Jim Marriott´s death and it does seem to set in motion two story threads in the next set of summaries. Arlene is quite unlikeable given the situation with April Joy. Ray manipulates Arlene to his own means. which would be fine as long as it was played like Ray was scummy, but I´m not convinced he is. Tom´s drinking problem had potential, but it doesn´t go anywhere.

The conversation regarding Jean Holloway's run led me down a rabbit hole. I pulled together some summaries from Lynda Hirsch and Jon-Michael Reed's columns as well as adding some clarifying relationship details to try and make sense of the final years of LOL. I will break the summaries down into three parts: (a) January-May, 1978: we are in the thick of Gabrielle Upton's two year run. This material is not very strong. I am not sure I'd say it was as bad as Jean Holloway's run, but it is a very forgettable run of episodes highlighted by a lot of bad tropes such as a dying husband trying to pair his wife with his friend, a frontburner couple's main source of conflict coming from an offscreen former romantic interest, and a series of forgettable characters introduced by Upton in the previous year. (b) June-September, 1978: this is Upton's last stand and seems to be an improvement on a lot of her previous run. Maybe the goodwill on my part stems from it being sandwiched between two forgettable periods, but Upton shows some real promise here, but it may have just been a case of too little, too late. (c) October-December, 1978: This is the transition period. In either September or October, Cathy Abbi is installed as producer with Jean Holloway joining in either late October or early November. November sees the departure of a slew of characters (probably close to ten) with several new charactes introduced in December as Jean Holloway´s story starts to materialize. For the sake of phone users, I´ll put it as a spoiler hoping that makes it easier to manage. If it isn´t helpful, I can always reformat.

The final years of "Love of Life" are intriguing because it is all over the place. I think tonally you are seeing previews from a producer who had experience on "Young and the Resteless." Stylistically, that comes across in the mood of the promos, at least to me. Then, you got the writing that is straight out of "When a Girl Marries" which just is such a contrast to slicker look of the promos. As I am piecing together the Jon-Michael Reed and Lynda Hirsch summaries, something that is standing out is there are some significant set changes when Cathy Abbi came on. Bruce accepts the position as a professor at Rosehill College and moves into Timothy McCauley's old house, which is a new set. A few weeks later Ray buys a new house for Arlene. Mind you, the disco was introduced just prior to Abbi's arrival (August, 1978) and Elliot and Betsy arrived in July, 1978, so they needed a place to stay. Add in the cast turnover, it is a pretty massive overhaul. I know she was still at "Days of our Lives," but it would have been interesting to see how things would have shaken out had Ann Marcus arrived in November, 1978, rather than May, 1979. I think cancellation would have been hard to avoid, but creatively I wonder where things would have gone. I am pretty positive it is Ray and Arlene Slater in the shower. The dude definitely is Lloyd Battista and the actress playing Arlene seemed to dye her hair a lot in those last few years. That final puffy dark hair look at the end is a lot.

I'm starting to pull the weekly summaries for 1978 for "Love of Life" to get a sense of the show before Holloway and Abbi arrive. I had forgotten that Upton's final months were actually building to something interesting (not sure if it was sustainable). Anyway, reviews of Holloway's work in print typically have accused her of writing for radio, which she had. I'm not even sure what the point of the search was. I think Ben and Betsy needed a new direction after all the high melodrama. With Meg on her way out, I would have shifted Mia as a leg in the Tom/Lianne story with having Lianne involved in a professional / quasi romantic relationship with Andrew Marriott. With Mia's brother Wes setting out to pursue Lianne's sister Kelly, I think having a Tom / Mia connection might have been worth pursuing as it would have allowed more Lianne / Mia conflict and more Betsy/Mia conflict. I also would have brought back Andy Marriott as another leg in the younger set triangle. I don't think Tony or Bambi had more story left in them. Eliot as the big bad would work for me. I wouldn't even be against somehow moving him towards Amy Russell as this sorta toxic power couple who would have thrived in the 1980s especially if Amy's voice of reason love interest was someone like Alan Sterling. I would have dumped Hal Carson, the cop who wanted Arlene. I think having Arlene wanting to raise her children independently would have been more compelling in the long run. Though, I would have done the custody fight and have had Ray show up in the courtroom with his surprise new wife, a new Meg. I think you are mixing up two of the promos. In one of the promos, Arlene and Ray are nearly killed by a glass of poisoned wine, which a hotel maid decided to drink instead. This was from the Bambi Brewster story, probably in February/March, 1979, when Ray is trying to find Bambi's father. In the other promo, Bambi and Tony are being all lovey dovey and the mystery Asian woman threatens their happiness. She wasn't, however, a hitwoman. That promo I think was from September, 1979, but I could be wrong. The woman was Kim Soo Ling. She had been a nurse during the Vietnam War and had been Tony Alfonso's lover. Tony was a chef at one of the establishments in Rosehill and had become involved with Bambi Brewster. When Bambi and Tony grew closer, Kim arrived in town with a secret, she had had Tony's child and given it up for adoption. She needed Tony's help in getting back in contact with, or getting custody of the child. Kim ended up workign at Rosehill Hospital as a nurse's aide or as a nurse. She and Tony tracked down their son, Tran, to his adopted family in California. I believe the adopted mother was sick and didn't have long to live. Kim and Tony agreed to let Tran stay with his adopted family in the final weeks of the show. I believe Irene Yah Ling Sun played Kim from 1979-1980.

I understood why Phillip was made the big bad in his exit... to facilitate the murder mystery plot. You couldn't have nice guy Phillip just being killed off without having a list of suspects. Weston and Conboy had Phillip go off the deep end and committed him to Ravenwood. During that time, Olivia had returned to Springfield after leaving town (to facilitate Chappell's maternity leave) revealing that her baby had died. We quickly learned she was simply hiding the child to keep her safe from the Spauldings (Lizzie had manufactured a fall for Olivia around August, 2003). Olivia married Phillip and moved into the Spaulding mansion once it was revealed Emma was alive. I remember one of the conditions was that Alexandra had to live in the potting shed. Anyway, Philip was released from Ravenwood in April, 2004, and he set out to get revenge against Olivia. The Olivia/Phillip material from April - July, 2004, was incredibly strong (in my opinion). Phillip was certainly making Olivia's life hell, but she was playing her long game as well. It was Kriezman who just leaned into it with the whole eminent domain stuff for the Coopers and then deciding he was going to take a bunch of kids with him when he left town. Kriezman had this way of deconstructing characters, but making no effort to rebuild them; I had very real issues with the way they handled Tammy once they decided Tammy/Jonathan were going to be more than just a part of Jonathan's revenge plot. Phillip in the shadows over the next few years was dumb. I kept trying to get back into the show in those years (2005-2007), but always something stupid would happen. I remember tuning in for Ross' death and learning that Phillip and Rick were apart of it and tuning out again.

I'd considered Jorn Winther because of what I know he did for "Generations" and some of the influence I can see on the later half of "Rituals." Winther and Raymond Goldstone (Marcus' brother) worked together for several months on "Rituals" with the interracial romance between rich girl Julia Field and cop Lucky Washington, the son of the family maid as well as a story about a group of white supremacists who kidnapped C.J. Field's son Mark because the group was anti-semitic (C.J. was Jewish). At the very least, Jorn Winther's show would have been a bit more diverse, which it desperately needed. I can see what you are saying about the show being in transition. I think there were definitely a lot of moving parts that hadn't completely settled. The true younger set was one area of development Marcus hadn't gotten to a place she was happy with. Originally, Marcus took Amy Niles' Gina Gaspero, Ray's kid sister, and paired her up with Marcus' creation Wes Osbourne, III, who was Mia's younger brother. Gina and Wes had a summer story where Wes deflowered her, Gina thought she might be pregnant, and then she had a bad trip after consuming a pot brownie at a party with Christy Bringham (Leah Ayres). Gina was dumped in September and Wes was shipped off to school (I suspect Woody Brown took a leave to film the "Flamingo Road" telefilm). Wes only returned in November after dropping out of school and went to work at the disco. Kelly Wilson was added in January, 1980, and Cheryl I think was introduced in the final week. The Ben / Betsy story was definitely melodramatic. Under Holloway, the story was rather hookey. Betsy was divorcing Eliot and starting to date Ben, but, in order to secure custody, all of their dates had to be chaperoned by Timothy MacCauley. Holloway's work is really bad. Marcus added the political campaign which gave Eliot Lang additional motivation to keep his marriage to Betsy in tact. The rape added the child, which was a complication that Ben was really struggling to get over (that Eliot and Betsy would be tied together by a child). The boating accident set in motion by Mia's duiplicitious phone call and all the events that followed certainly sound a bit high drama. I don't mind this sort of material as long as the scripts are strong, but I don't get that sense from what I've seen. Marcus leaned into the melodrama though. I believe during Meg's paralysis story the reason that Lianne performed Meg's surgery, despite Lianne being under suspension or only being an intern, was because the surgeon had a heart attack while in the operating room. Arlene and Ray's stuff just doesn't work for me in any incarnation. I think initially they are just the defacto parents for Gina during the summer plot; Marcus shipped the parents off to Italy for a vacation in June, 1979. Later, Hal Carson (the cop from the Des Moines Bambi Brewster paternity plot) was brought to Rosehill as a spoiler for Ray and Arlene. They were in the plane crash (which happened the same month as the boating accident) which left Ray to think they had conceived the baby during their time in the woods, even though Arlene knew she was pregnant prior to this. Why the show kept Arlene out of Ben's orbit is a mystery to me. I'm not even sure when Bambi first appeared. I think it was some time early in 1978 when Gabrielle Upton was writing, but, of course, Jean Holloway went and made the question of her paternity a major mystery in Des Moines, Iowa, with a bunch of imposters and slick figures trying to keep the mystery going for God knows what reason. As I recall, I don't think Ann Marcus dumped any contact player when she arrived (Tom Crawford was recast, but I think Weber's contract was up and he wasn't renewing). Ann McCarty lucked out because Marcus was finally allowed to tell her reuniting with a child abandoned during the Vietnam War story she had been trying to tell for the past five or so years (originally, it was pitched for a returned Mia Elliot on LIAMST and later for Chris Kositchek on DOOL). The Vietnam story ended the last week of the show. I'd be curious if Marcus would have kept Bambi and Tony on or married them off and shipped them out.

I don't disagree and, the worst part is, those elements had already been embedded into the show. The Soleitos had Tony the cop and then Gino, Carla, and Joey with the mob connections. While the Chase family may have been new money than old money, the class of the media giants verse celebrity musician Nick Rivers could have easily been shaped up. I easily would have given Jared two children from a previous marriage (a son and a daughter) which would have added a bit more conflict to the story. I also think I stated before that I felt that some of the initial conflict should have come from the longtime tenants having to deal with the transplants because they had pushed others out. I would have beefed up what was there. While I'm no fan of Danny Roberts and think the approach to the Jocelyn story was salacious at best, I think exploring the Roberts clan a bit more would have been worthwhile. Jocelyn and Danny's father seemed much more white collar middle class than I expected. I think they could have had him owning a construction company, which would have given him some possibilities for business with Sydney bedding Danny and Jocelyn handling the legal stuff for the ad agency.

To me, the Phillip murder story was an attempt to replicate some of what ¨Days of our Lives" had done when Reilly returned in 2003 with the serial killer story and brought them all back in 2004. Kill off some veterans (or in GL´s case, one veteran) save some money and bring them back later on. The problem was Grant Alexander wasn´t interested in coming back. You can´t tell a story about a character not being dead and not bring the character back. That is just poor storytelling. Now, I don´t know who´s final decision it was, but the show should have recasted Phillip if the show was so interested in having him come back from the dead. During this time, Wheeler didn´t seem big on recasting characters who had already been appearing under her (the only exceptions I can think of are Mandy Bruno as Kit Paquin had just been hired by Conboy when Wheeler started, Nicole Forrester because Laura Wright´s departure was unexpected, and Jeff Branson as Shayne who had been offscreen for several years at that point.) I was pretty good at following GL online media at the time through here and the GLBuzz forum so I am pretty well versed on the BTS stuff at the time.

I don´t think Grant Alexander was happy with being killed off, even if it was temporary. The show clearly wanted him back for most of next few years. I don´t think bringing him back in 2009 was a bad idea. My bone of contention was spending nearly nine months on a murder mystery in 2004-2005 where it turns out that the character was never dead to begin with and the character wasn´t coming back was a waste of time and energy. I liked Harley, but that story did me in. The trial, the prison stint, the GusH on the run... it was too much. Granted, I haven´t looked at episode counts, but Phillip was never guzzling story the way Reva, Richard/Cassie, and Danny/Michelle did. If anything, all Phillip´s departure did was to elevate Harley, which did no one any favors.

@KhanI would hope they would keep Ann Marcus, but I would probably want to hire some subwriters to improve the scripts. The story seems strong, but the episodes I´ve seen don´t always draw me in as much I would like. I would probably try to get someone like Frank Salsibury. If they did replace Marcus, I would probably want Rick Edelstein (based on his work on ¨How to Survive a Marraige¨) or Jane Avery (based on her work with her ex-husband Ira on ¨Secret Storm¨). My final consideration would be A.J. Russell (based on his work on ¨Somerset¨). For EP, I was thinking Jackie Babbin, but she wouldn´t have done ¨All My Children¨ yet so her style might be different if she hadn´t worked on that show first. Babbin would have still been an ABC executive but I believe would have produced some nighttime work.

Michael Dempsey, like most of Wheeler´s hires, was just generic. I don´t think he was a bad actor, but I could never really tell based on what I saw. I remember when they brought him back I was excited because it looked like they might be actually attempting to revitalize the Spauldings. There was some sort of boardroom battle (again) with Beth vying for CEO because she wanted to protect her children´s legacy. I believe Mary Kay Adams was even dragged in for an episode for the vote. It may have been around this time that Beth married Alan in Ravenwood (that was the name of the psychiatric hospital, correct?). I had stopped watching several months earlier when it was clear this was now the Harley show and when it was revealed Phillip was still alive (all that story for months on end for nothing). Anyway, I popped back in and tuned quickly back out when they voted Harley as CEO out of nowhere over Beth. That was all I needed to know. I assumed that, like everything else in that era, Alan Michael´s return would have something to do with Harley as they had been married once similar to Robert Bogue´s Mallet. Dempsey was paired with the equally unmemorable Mandy Bruno´s Marina, who would have been better off paired with Tom Pelphrey´s Jonathan because maybe he could have lit a spark in her performance.

Most likely. At times, I feel like episodes of ¨The City" come off as an American attempt at a British style soap opera, which has, to me at least, always felt like it has a looser story style than the American soaps or at least incorporates more interaction that isn´t always at the heart of the show´s plot. I don´t always get the appeal of British soaps so I can sometimes give ¨The City" a pass, but it mostly just feels disjointed and attempting to mimick the trashy talk shows of the era rather than soap opera. The thing is though it basically is a continuation rather than a spinoff, right? Like ¨Loving¨ didn´t keep going while ¨The City¨ was on the air. The actors contracts with the show weren´t renegotiated, as far as I know, when ¨The City¨ began. I think less people should have moved to ¨The City." Having everyone move at once was silly and limited the story potential. I hear what people are saying, but I also think back to the conversations about how ¨Texas¨ struggled because so much of the story started on ¨Another World.¨ There is so little story in the opening episodes of ¨The City" and the characters aren´t developed enough to be compelling to have conversations carry the episodes. I´d be curious to know when it was decided to have Jared rape Sydney. Joel Fabani is SOOO cringey. It seems like it is just another reason to have Jared killed off a month or so later. That story also comes at a point where the show is just dropping things left and right. The build of stories is so bad. April is mostly the Jocelyn is a hooker because her father took her to get raped by his friends and Richard and Zoey falling in love while Zoey learns that Nick is her dad. The May stories are mostly the rape (to a lesser extent), Jared´s deisre to take over the building to get the gold, and the Azure C. revelation. Things just seem to come and go without the necessary build. I will remain adamant that Sydney/Morgan Fairchild wasn´t the issue lol This isn´t a case of Beverly McKinsey being asked to play a watered down version of her bitch character to carry off a new show. Sydney as the landlord was suppose to be the Amanda Woodard of ¨The City,¨ but owning the building wasn´t enough. Sydney wasn´t developed enough for any actress to make her work. There was enough scraps that a decent writer could have made it work, but I think Tracy ended up being a better fit because the character was pre-fab and didn´t need to be developed. The cancellation of ¨Loving¨ coincided with the announcement of the rebranding. I think Fairchild´s hiring may have been slightly later. I don´t think Harmon Brown and Essensten had the capacity to develop the new version of the show and end the old one at the same time.

Sorry, I meant Barbara Sterling and Rick Latimer´s marriage. I don´t think either Hank had been aged. Tess and Bill´s son Johnny Prentiss was also still a child but I believe he was born a few years later (late 60s). The age gap was probably reduced and I think they were about the same age. Years ago, I thought I read that either Johnny or Hank were suppose to return had the show continued and that Peter Reckell was cast, but that is strictly rumor.

Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt´s Suzi is purposefully naive in order for her not to catch on about Warren´s involvement in the gun running. By the time this all comes to light, Hunt and Ellis are days away from being out themselves. There is a scene very early in David Cherrill´s run where Suzi (still studying dance) is in the living room of hers and Wendy´s apartment doing a routine to Sheena Easton´s ¨Modern Girl¨ suggesting that there is an understanding that Suzi needs to be independent. Of course, about eight weeks later she and Warren are married 😑 Cherill doesn´t do much with Suzi in what I have seen, but there is a gap in my material (that has since materialized online). Cherrill may also have decided to deemphasis Suzi in this period if Gibbs was asking to be let out to film the ¨Fame¨ pilot. I think it is Joanna Lee and Gary Tomlin who decide that Suzi wants to be a social worker, which I think was a smart move. I just watched a nice scene earlier today from July, 1983, where Suzi explains to Kristin and Wendy that she has always examined people´s motivations because of her mother´s death at such a young age. Given the community focus that Lee/Tomlin were reviving from the Corringtons era, I think Suzi would have fit in well with the grand vision of the show. The bigger issue with Tomlin´s Suzi is the turnover from Gibbs to Swankhammer to Eoff. Swankhammer is green and doesn´t have the energy to be a leading character. So her Suzi seems to be on the sidelines. Eoff gets to play some of the meatier material right away, but than the turnover in writers and producers that Suzi ends up in an insta couple with newbie Cagney, which, quite frankly, doesn´t work for me even if Ashford and Eoff have decent chemistry. Teri Eoff just never is given the chance to play a version of Suzi with much bite. Motherhood sorta keeps Suzi from being on the front burner and even when she is given a chance to be active (killing Warren) she has to be on edge of hysteria in order to do it. I like Mayer Avila and Braxton´s work, but they should have spent some time rebuilding Suzi as a person before going off and marrying Cagney and Suzi or at least have both characters realize that rushing into marriage was a mistake and fraught with conflict. I know people enjoy Long and Walsh´s run, but they seemed very out of touch in big areas. Killing off Suzi for a Cagney/Evie story is insane. I think the Stephanie / Wendy plot sounds like the kind of thing each of them would do. Stephanie was always trying to set up Warren to get him out of her girls' lives. If Wendy learned of this after Warren´s murder, Wendy could have done it out of revenge. Wendy could agree to testify in Stephanie´s defense before destroying Stephanie´s claim on the witness stand and then going later to Stephanie´s jail cell stating that this is what she gets for ruining her relationship with Warren. I would have Jo be the one to discover the truth to clear Stephanie. I like the idea of Kristin being her brother´s murderer, but what would you have had as her motivation? I think there was also some space to explore Kristin and Warren´s background a bit more. Warren had been a punk in Detroit before going off to Los Angeles with Ringo and getting involved in a slightly bigger game then finally arriving in Henderson. I think one of the Carter parents could have come back to town after spending years in jail for the murder of the the other parent. Of course, then you could reveal that Kristin had actually murdered this parent too due to years of abuse which could have set off Warren´s murder. I think Jo needs to suffer lol It´s not like Jo was trolling the docks for young guys and bringing them back to a seedy motel to have her way with them and murder them (things we were saved from because Ron Carvilati wasn´t born decades earlier). Mary Stuart would have played the hell out of the angst, but if TPTB wanted to keep Jo purer than Ivory soap, I would tell them that I would eventually reveal that Kate the madam (Martin´s old lover who was a madam played by Mary Stuart when the Corringtons were writing) was in fact the killer and that it would come out somewhere over the next 2 to 3 years lol I don´t have a horse in the game in regards to Martin/Jo. I was just surprised to see how long they were committed to the pairing even after they were divorced. From a storytelling standpoint, I think Martin and Jo make sense because it kept Jo tied to a large part of the canvas (the Tourneur/Sentell clan), but I could see why some people would not like them because Martin wasn´t perfect. Your ideas are interesting @Khan and made me think of how I would tweak your scenario. I would probably want to deal with the plight of the homeless by tapping into the fact that many of those who are on the streets suffer from mental illness. In that case, I´d probably reveal that Emily Potter had been quietly disgarded by Stan years ago and that she had been shuffled between social services before getting lost in the system and ending up on the streets. I´d also have one of the sons suffer the same illness so that the audience could see how when treated with respect and dignity, those suffering from mental illnesses can live fulfilling lives. Only if you really go for broke and crossover with ¨Another World" and reveal that Patti´s lover is Ada Hobson.

I think it was about 1960 to until late 1964, but I am basing that on an article I read years ago from 1963 (or so) when they were discussing how Barbara was considering aborting Rick´s baby (Hank). I believe he produced up until he was working on ¨A Flame in the Wind.¨ This is how some radio soaps worked. There would be a small set of mainstays who would mostly react to the insane actions of short run leads who would come and go once their story reached their natural conclusion. These shows were effective. Alan is interesting. I can´t remember if he ever learned that Bruce Sterling wasn´t his biological father. If not, I imagine Marcus would have pulled the scab off that wound at some point because she was supposedly set to bring back both Alan and Barbara in 1980. Alan´s paternity revelation would have probably coincided with the reveal that Amy wasn´t Bruce´s child, which was also set to occur at some point later in the year. I´m blanking, who was Elizabeth? I think Barbara and Rick´s volatile marriage was similar to Alan and Susan´s on ¨Secret Storm.¨ She was the spoiled daddy´s girl and he was someone who didn´t always color inside the lines of morality. Where Rick seems to luck out is he was already engulfed in story when they decided to write out Barbara with his involvement with Sally Stark´s Kate Swanson. His ties to the Sterling clan as their in-law also allowed Bruce and Vanessa to cluck about Rick´s behavior without it ever really impacting them. I find it hard to see Jerry Lacey as this charismatic roguish type given the roles he played on ¨Dark Shadows," but I know that people liked him. Did Rick have any romances between Kate and then the triangle with Cal and Meg? Tudi Wiggins leaving would have been a loss for ¨Love of Life,¨ but I think the show could have survived. There was a lot of story going on (Ben/Betsy/Eliot, Hal/Arlene/Ray, Steve/Vanessa/Bruce/Amy, Bambi/Tony/Kim, Kelly/Wes/Cheryl) that Meg´s departure would have just meant some shifting. There seemed to be some attempt at building a Andrew/Lianne relationship, which I imagine could have become the next complication to Lianne/Tom. Creatively, ¨Love of Life¨ doesn´t feel like a corpse in 1979/1980 plot summaries the way it does to me in 1978/1979. Ann Marcus really reenergized the show in terms of story, but the damage had been done. When the show changed slots in April, 1979, the show lost about 40 affiliates which meant about a clearance drop of 15%. It would be interesting to see what would have happened if ¨Love of Life¨ had managed to be in the 90s for clearance when Marcus was writing because even when the show was ending she was getting ratings at a 4.0, which isn´t great but went you see it has a clearance of 70% its not terrible, but it really would have needed to pulling a 7.0 to be competitive with the bottom portion and it just wouldn´t have been close even with a fuller market clearance. Regarding Van, she had been deemphasized pretty much since Labine and Mayer were writing. I think she was central in the Jeff Hartman story, but after that, Van and Bruce are left to deal with other people´s problems. They get an alcoholic ward, Lynn Henderson, but her story never really seems to find a direction ( I think they wanted to have Lynn go after Ben Harper but that never completely happens). Gabrielle Upton has a plot where Bruce thinks he´s dying and tries to pair Van and Andrew Marriott, but that sounds even more hoary than most of Jean Holloway´s stuff. It is Ann Marcus, actually, who seems to revitalize Bruce and Van by introducing Amy Russell, who claims she is Bruce´s bastard daughter, and Ben´s ex-cell mate Steve Harbach who develops a sexual attraction for Vanessa. Truthfully, it would be a treat to see some of the Steve / Vanessa material. The timeslot change is about a month before Ann Marcus arrives. In Marcus' first week, she immediately dumps the notorious Bambi Brewster plot and immediately gives Bruce and Van jobs at the university. By June, Mia Marriott´s brother Wes Osbourne becomes involved with Ray Slater´s kid sister Gina Gaspero for the youth summer story. Marcus´ overhaul definitely has a youth emphasis. The college definitely seems to be becoming more of an emphasis as does the disco that is run by Arlene and Ray. I think ditching the ski resort element of the show was unfortunate, but it didn´t seem to fit with where the show was heading. Given the constant turnover, the question really would be who would have been producer or writer after Abbi/Marcus and what would they have done to the show.

God knows I can be long winded, so I kept a couple a details out regarding my belief regarding the potential of Stephanie going on trial with Jo psychologically blocking it out. Stephanie's rationale for not stating the truth would have been a) no one would believe Stephanie implicating her enemy Jo as anything more than an attempt to distort the truth and b) Stephanie feared that if the investigation did veer away from Stephanie it would lead to Wendy. While Wendy might not go to jail, Stephanie wouldn't want all of Wendy's association with Warren out in the public. Plus, Stephanie knew that she was guilty. Whether or not the audience would have bought that, I cannot say for sure 🙃 I was planning the timing of Jo's memory returning for the same time as Warren's return. Now, you got me thinking though, what if Jo went on trial for murder of Warren and was found innocent, only for Warren to turn up alive, then later have Warren reveal that Jo had in fact been the one who had shot him and she hadn't remembered. And her having to live with the fact that she got off for a crime she did commit. As initially conceived, Warren wasn't a complete scumbag. Ellis and Hunt delved a bit into his background and had Brian hunt down information about Warren's past in Detroit. It appeared that Warren was involved in his criminal activities because he and Kristin were impoverished and he was looking to provide a better life for Kristin. I believe this was also some of the subtext to Warren's disgust about Kristin and Brian's relationship because even though Warren was happy Brian was out of the way in terms of Suzi, he didn't like that Kristin would be involved in someone who couldn't provide for Kristin in the way he had. This could easily have been tapped into in the scenario you provided @Khan especially if he were in Jo's house and took troubled Christopher Whiting under his wing. I know Martin and Jo weren't endgame for most of the audience, but they were definitely written that way up until Martinw as written out in 1984. Even afterwards, Martin was seen as the one Jo would end up with (if that was ever even a thought on the table). Having her accused of his murder would be pretty brutal. The prison story sounds intriguing. The only detail I would suggest is making the district attorney who prosecuted Jo and was Sunny's love interest a little more devious and cunning. He would secretly be making calls to someone who has been guiding his career. Eventually, it would be revealed that the person at the other end of the phone is his aunt, Andrea Whiting, who would pop up for an arc when the truth about Christopher's paternity was revealed. If you are reintroducing Patti, playing out the reveal that Christopher is in fact Len's son as well as the juicy detail that Jo had known for YEARS and hadn't told Patti would be icing with Andrea back on the scene. And if they couldn't convince Joan Copeland to return, I would be okay with Tudi Wiggins assuming the role. I think the potential was there for Christopher Whiting given the backstory being adopted by his biological father and only a handful of people knowing (including Jo, and I believe Bob Rogers). In 1983, a Christopher / Danny friendship might have been workable and had them involved in the triangle with Angela. I think the idea of Patti having had an affair works well especially if it leads Christopher seeing the disintegration of his adopted family as an impetus to look into his biological family which is what brings him to Henderson and with Grandma Jo wringing her hands about the heartbreak that is about to strike her family when all the truth comes out. For the mystery lover, I would probably make the man a doctor who would come to work at the hospital to help reestablish that part of the canvas especially if Patti were to make some sort of permanent presence. I think the idea of Wendy and Suzi raising the child is intriguing. If that was the route, I would want Wendy to not reveal to Suzi who the father was and for Warren to be presumed dead as the crime commission has caught up to him. Meanwhile, Suzi, who was also pregnant by Warren but unaware, loses her baby and the loss causes Wendy to remain mum about the father of her child, but also guides her to let Suzi be a part of her child's life. When pressed by Suzi, Wendy would finally break and confess that her old flame, Spence Langley, was the father thinking Suzi would back off. A newly single Suzi and a newly single Brian (Kristin wouldn't be able to forgive Brian for the role that the crime commission played in Warren's "death") would grow closer. Suzi would eventually decide that she needed to talk to Spence and tracks him down to Chicago, who doesn't let on to that he's not the father. Instead, he follows Wendy's advice and comes to Henderson looking for Stephanie to make a payout. Stephanie is not pleased by any of it, but when Stephanie refuses to pay, which infuriates Wendy, Spence decides to spend time in Henderson where he gets chummy with Kristin. As Kristin and Spence got closer, her one bone of contention with Spence is that he has abandoned "his child." Spence, in turn, decides to play daddy to the child. Eventually, Warren would return and fight both Brian and Spence, which would require the former friends to repair the damage done by Spence masquerading as Brian, only for Brian and Spence's animosity to resume because of how Spence will inevitably hurt Kristin when it is revealed Warren, not Spence, is the child's father. I do like how your proposal though gives Suzi a backbone. She was often very spineless, which left her as a passive character rather than active.

Warren basically takes over the criminal infrastructure that Rusty Sentell had set up. I was watching some episodes from June, 1983, last night and Warren has taken $3 million of Rusty's dirty money in order to fund some of his criminal activity. Tom Bergman is setting up the crime commission and has spoken to Brian Emerson about joining. Brian agrees after confirming that Tom's top target is Warren. In reference to when the show dropped the Brian/Suzi angle, Brian's involvement in the crime commission is discussed by Tom and Jo. Jo expresses that her concern is that Brian will have to keep his involvement from his wife and how that would hurt their new marriage. There is no real reference to how this plays into a Brian/Suzi past. In conversations, when Warren is bitching about his wife Suzi, Brian usually defends Suzi, but that seems to be about hating Warren as much as it is about Brian's feelings for Suzi. The clearance issues you mentioned were really a problem. The show had a 91% clearance when it premiered on NBC. It was up to a 93% by the summer of 1982. By the time Lee arrives, it is closer to 85% and then within weeks of taking over the show is at 80%. I think the Wendy / Warren / Suzi triangle was pretty successful at getting the show attention. The decision to nix Wendy's marriage to nice guy Keith so that Wendy could be more of a trouble maker like her mother going after her best friend's husband, Warren. Meanwhile, Warren's criminal involvement is being investigated by Brian, Wendy's half-brother, while he becomes involved with Billy Vargas, who ends up kidnapping Jo. Wendy and Warren continue to carry on behind Suzi's back while she is studying to become a social worker. Wendy gets pregnant and Warren is excited to be a father only for Warren to discover that Suzi is about to come of age into a sizeable inheritance. Warren's plans to dump Suzi are dropped so he can cash in on the future windfall and pushes Wendy to abort the baby. Wendy contemplates it, but ends up miscarrying leaving her devastated. Once Suzi learns the truth, she decides to dump Warren, who quickly marries Wendy and plans to get custody of baby Jonah before Warren ends up in jail himself. This all plays out in about a single year (May, 1983-June, 1984). If anything, the story could have been slowed down. The trouble was that Cynthia Gibb departs in August, 1983, and Elizabeth Swankhammer, who was very green, took over in September before departing several months later in December. In January, you have Teri Eoff assuming the role. I think they could have pulled a Who Shot Warren story in the early half of 1984 though if you were looking for a big dramatic trial. But I would have had Jo pull the trigger and Stephanie stand trial as Jo wouldn't remember due to trauma stemming from her kidnapping by Vargas. Of course, Warren would pop back up and Jo would be left wondering (after regaining the memory with the help of her new psychiatrist love inter) if Warren remembers what she has done. Warren would claim he was a new man, but would slowly gaslight Jo into confessing during a big party. But the live episode did get the ratings up. Weren't they like a 4.0 a week or so after the event? So people were tuning in. Gimmicks only grab the audiences attention if there is enough story to maintain outside it. I think the stunts worked (Michellle Phillips as Ruby Ashford, the LIVE episode), but that ultimately it was an affiliate issue and a pacing issue (they could have slowed the show down) more so than the stories themselves. I think they could have worked Patti back in around September, 1983, when Jo "died" during the kidnapping story and had her involved in the handling of her mother's estate. I probably would have kept her married to Len (on the rocks), but I would have her eyeing up men in Henderson (even though her age range was very limited). I would have had her clash with Martin, who Patti would see as beneath her mother given he was a gambler and a womanizer, which would put her in good graces with Lloyd. Truthfully, I think there would need to be more work done to the canvas to make Patti viable despite the fact that being Jo's daughter should have been enough.

@FrenchFan Thanks for sharing this with us. Regarding this time period, you have a few things going on. Joe Hardy and Don Ettlinger, who have been working together on the show for a good portion of the early 1960s have departed to launch "A Flame in the Wind" and is about to relaunch as "A Time for Us" at the end of the month pretty much continuing much of the original show's story, but dumping its older female lead (Kathleen Maguire's Kate Austen) and building up the conflict between the Skerba/Driscoll sisters. Also, you have NBC sniffing around looking to purchase "Love of Life." Finally, I put a document in the "Secret Storm" thread a few years back from Roy Winsor where he talked about wanting his shows to be open to having characters who could move in and out of the story. He stated one of the reasons was that actors contractual demands were a problem. At that time, Judy Lewis had something like a 1.5 episode week guarantee or maybe 2 at her own request. I remember thinking that it would be hard to keep her front and center with a guarantee that low. Shifting the characters in and out of the story was something Winsor wanted becasue he felt it would build longevity and that they wouldn't be limited to telling stories with a smaller group of people. "Love of Life" always seemed to be a show that was able to evolve based on its heroine Vanessa's journey. The show shifted from Barrowsville to New York City to Rosehill while the other characters came and went. I would be curious to deep dive into which characters went from one locale to the other, while which ones were lost in the shuffle. It seems crazy to me that Ann Loring's Tammy Forrest survived as long as she did given the constant flux of characters, but her status as Vanessa's pal probably left her in position as B-/C-level heroine.

Lee definitely presented the strongest period. Jo's kidnapping is always cited as the reason the show thrived, but Lee really helped cultivate a strong canvas that was intergenerational and blended the past and the present. The decision to make Wendy Wilkins a schemer was brilliant. Wendy going after Warren Carter built that part of the canvas up beautifully. The decision to make the show an ensemble again and not the Travis and Liza show allowed the canvas to open up. Lloyd Kendall as the new rival to Travis Sentell and Tourneur Instruments was intriguing giben the history between Lloyd and Martin regarding Steve's paternity. The criminal element led by Warren, Ringo, and Vargas was balanced well with the Brian Emerson and Tom Bergman's crime commission with Sunny in the wings. Stephanie and Steve was fun, and the eventual Stephanie and Lloyd should have been fun. Barbara Moreno was a great addition not only giving Stu a love interest, but building up the social work element that would have eventually included Suzi. There was a sense of future building in Henderson that didn't occur very often afterwards. Liza leaving might have allowed Sunny to flourish. If they had done the Lloyd/Hogan stuff with Sunny, it might have been a little more effective, but maybe it wouldn't have been. Liza's departure would have meant that Danny Walton was Stu's main family tie. Gary showing up earlier might have helped, but in July, 1985, I'm not sure what I would have done with him. If they had revived the Riverfront Clinic where Angela Bassett's Selina McCulla worked they could have tried that romance. Sarah Whiting being adopted was a layer added by Tomlin I believe. Danny would have been older than Tracey, and Sarah is with Wendy and Quinn, who are clearly suppose to be older. Of course, Danny was still the same age he was in 1983, but that's another story. To be fair, Tracey isn't even mentioned by many of the soap books from the time, but, neither is Sarah in the end either. I like Sarah, but it would have made more sense to bring on Chris Whiting and have him fight Quinn for Wendy. I think Marland's "Loving" works in the final months (December, 1984-May, 1985). His "A New Day in Eden" is very slow given the structure of 2 half-hour episodes a week. Truthfully, even if it aired daily, it is a bit slow. I think his larger canvases played better on hour long shows, but I think paired with the right EP (maybe Joanna Lee or another female daytime outsider) could have worked for "Search," but probably wouldn't be my first pick.

I think the last time the show had a chance was fall of 1985 with Erwin Nicholson as EP and Gary Tomlin as writer. The return of Estelle opened up story possibilities in a way that could have generated some real long term story including the return of Martin Tourneur. Repairing Hogan and Sunny in the chemical plant poisoning story had the potential to repair some of the harm to Sunny (which I don't think was as bad as what Long and Walsh did to Liza). A Chase / Adair / Ryder / T.R. triangle seemed to have potential especially if most of the quad ended up tied to the newspaper. Keeping the Sarah / Quinn / Wendy triangle going with Stephanie's daughter as the spunky heroine and Jo's granddaughter as the more emotionally manipulative antagonist would have been a good way to keep things heading in the right direction. I'm curious what was on deck had Tomlin stayed as I know that Gary Walton was suppose to come back and romance Sunny, which was why the nephew had been introduced (Gary and Laine's son). I don't know how Bela Garody survived a highly despised intro story, a serial killer, a flood, three producers, and 3 head writing teams while having such little story potential. I feel there is just a very big disconnect when I watch Long/Walsh's "Search for Tomorrow." It seems most visible to me when I watch the anniversary episode back to back with the next day's episode. The anniversary episode is nice, but also mostly relies on the actors chemistry than a strong script (in my opinion). It's not a bad script, it just isn't memorable from the lines standpoint, but rather from the use of flashbacks. The next day's episode with Liza and Patti fighting over Hogan with Hogan dangling the hospital records while Quinn fights with Jerry Henderson and Suzi fights off the advances of the guy from Liberty House just isn't it. I've tried to watch the Ireland stuff, which is very romantic and plays well into fantasy, but just lacks dramatic tension, in my opinion. To be fair, I feel this way about Long's work on "Texas" as well and much of Walsh's work on "Loving." Jozie Emmerich and Haidee Granger of "Loving" were former ABC daytime executives. Going from artists to business folk represented the shift from developing a creatively strong show and creating a show which was strong at staying within budget. I imagine some of that might have been similar with SFT's final teams. Also, I think SFT was a dry run for P&G before they put people at other shows (typically, AW). Abbi was at "Love of Life" for about 17 months before the show was cancelled. I know @saynotoursoap mentioned Abbi being brought on to run the show into the ground. The Jean Holloway run (November/December, 1978 - May, 1979) nearly did, but Ann Marcus' material was very intriguing. I do think the canvas may have been a bit too big under Marcus/Abbi, which I think occasionally was the problem during the NBC years for SFT. I would be curious to see how Marland would have handled a town that had recently been destroyed in a flood. I feel like that's not something he would easily dismiss and it might have naturally built in that civic piece (when Jo was on town council, Brian and Tom were trying to clena up crime, and Suzi was pursuing a social work degree) that had been lost in the shuffle.

Isabelle Alden was in and out for much of the 1990s (offscreen for a good chunk of 1991 and 1994) and played by three separate actors. She might not have inspired viewer loyalty. Kate may have given her tough love approach with Ally. I could see how early to mid 1990s Lila Quartermaine would enjoy the sage advice she would dispense and acting as a calming port in the storm that was the Q clan. You are right. That really was the bigger issue. Not necessarily the family structure concepts, but the failure to dig deep into anything. Connected to that, the show moved too quickly at times to really appreciate anything because the story really drove everything and there seemed to be fewer meaningful character moments that were connected to the plot. Also, tonally, there was something quite off. While I really enjoy the fake Quartermaines sequence, there real meat is the pain Tracey must be feeling about not having that connection to her family, and, from what I've seen, that wasn't explored enough. Everything, everywhere seems to be about a snarky response or an attempt at shock and awe rather than ever just really trying to humanize the characters.

The dead body was eventually tied to the mob storyline, but, at what point, I can't remember. It was well into 1996 when it was, and more than likely wasn't the original intention. I want to say it was an informant on the Soleitos. I think teen characters would have been hard because there would have had to be some sort of parental figures and since "The City" was desperately trying to avoid traditional family structures, this wasn't going to be the case. The only thing they could do is a private boarding school, but I imagine those aren't a thing in the city (but I'm sure if there are someone will correct me lol) I think Zoe was suppose to be fairly young. Ally should have been around 21 when the show started, but really the story and aging of Tyler probably put her later into her 20s. I think Frankie, who was only on very briefly, should have been under 20. I know I'm in the minority, but I don't think the found family unit was executed well or had the long term potential as the sole form of famialiar structure. I think the contrast of the tradition and the found family would have been neat, but the show rarely got as deep as it should with its core characters, expecting the depth of supporting family members would have been a big ask. There were hints of the potential of the conflict of traditional vs. found with the Roberts family secrets, the revelation of Azure's identity, and even the Zoe/Richard paternity drama filled romance. At the end of the day though, it just never materialized into anything compelling.