soapfan770

For me after the first 10 eps of S12 were pretty solid, I was more interested in and entertained by the Sumner Group drama, Paige vs Linda, Nick & Anne shenanigans, Frank and the two-timing teacher than I was about the core four although I did like Mac & Jason. The S12 finale was a bit weird as I’ve read the Lechowicks had real no involvement and already out the door when James Stanley wrote that mess. It’s been said Romano may have already started as Stanley also wrote episode 2 of S13. Interesting that both Knots and L.A. Law aired high profile milestone episodes in the spring of ‘91 (300th for Knots had Gary & Val remarry, 100th for L.A. Law had Rosalind plummet to her death in an elevator shaft) and both shows would end up taking a serious creative downturn right after. Knots was lucky that the damage was salvaged and the show at least ended on a satisfactory note; NBC abruptly canned L.A. Law just as the show was undergoing its FIFTH revamp in 3 seasons. Interesting. I wonder if it airing on Mother’s Day had anything to do with the lower ratings? I actually do like this episode as @Khan pointed out this was Harry’s last appearance with “That’s all she wrote!” as I’ve read it was written as a possible series finale. I guess the bookend eps had also taken a bit of a toll? I really like Dennis Stanton and he is one of my favorite MSW recurring characters along with Harry and Michael Hagarty, but I will say his excess number of bookend eps in Season 7 kind of felt like a spinoff series occurring on the main show. Thanks as well @JAS0N47 !!!

@te. My bad my post didn’t upload my reply LOL but S12 was definitely stablized for the most part and had consistently still dipped into the Top #30. There’s two overall season rankings I have seen—Wiki and Primetime Encyclopedia mentions Knots came in at #35 while the TV Ratings Guide has Knots tied at #30th. Not sure which was correct.

You’re welcome @Soapsuds!! Interesting things to look at: -CBS Monday nights gaining momentum. It would get bigger the following season. -Who’s The Boss? ending the season at #43. Meanwhile on the same night Roseanne was #2. The Wonder Years had fallen to #39. -Knots Landing two hour finale ending at #10 against repeat Cheers and LA Law. I wonder if Dallas’ finale the week before had given it a boost? -Sisters premiered at #41 behind #22 Empty Nest season finale.

Happy 70th anniversary to ATWT!!! Miss this show everyday still but I’m so glad we have BTG living in its old timeslot these days.

Here ya go!

Season 12 question….Was it just me or does the story about Stanley Zbornak running around the Cul-De-Sac investigating Danny’s drowning just seem to run wayyy longer than it should? Like what was the point? Over milking of a guest star?

Not going to lie I could also totally see Ken Corday hiring Marland on in one of his Plan to Save Days circa 1999, only for it to end in disaster. I wonder if any of the ABC soaps would have flirted with the idea of hiring him in the late 90’s. But I also don’t see Marland writing any soaps after 2000. I could see P&G bringing him back in a consulting basis maybe like around 2002 but someone like Goutman outright ignoring him. Of course sadly we’ll never know. Heck he might well ended as Reilly’s Co-HW at Passions as his final writing gig 🤣😂

Fair points, especially as the show lost some longtime mainstays i.e. Frannie, Lyla, and Iva, OG Caleb passed away etc. But at the same time the show at least felt like Marland’s Oakdale to me for the most part. I’m assume Marland would have made the most of it but I do wonder if he would have had a say in keeping his favorites at the expense of others. I can’t picture Marland writing ATWT past 1994/95 though. I could easily see P&G rehiring Marland by 1997/98 and then have him fall out with MADD within a year.

Thanks for the tag as always @DRW50 I too always love seeing Janice. Especially early Janice here as she is so unassuming yet potentially messy. I thought for the most part 1993 and at least early 1994 was better than the dreary depressing 1992, although some of the stories happen to just be less memorable than the 1992 highlights.

Re: Brad’s past on Y&R. Sally Sussman stated in an interview the original plan for Victor’s investigation of Brad’s past was to have Lisa Mansfield resurface, but Latham nixed the idea with her own. What might have been… I believe Leanna was originally intended to be way more sinister and serious and some of this made it onscreen very early on. Once Leanna has scenes with TL’s Jack though the writing shifted and Leanna became more comedic crazy rather than be an actual threat. ATWT again with Lien Hughes coming and going in a rapid fire pace in 2001. No wonder the actress was so happy to return to Broadway.

Jumping ahead to March 1989 we have Roseanne winning at #1. Interesting to see Anything But Love here so high. Another example of a timeslot hit with a known star this case Jamie Lee Curtis. Looks like the CBS soaps had all taken the week off due to basketball:

Who knows. There was a lot very odd decisions made on ATWT on 2004, and the Hogen Sheffer era finally came crashing down that year as he finally dropped fell out as being the darling of the soap press at least until his initial Days run. Eric/Caitlin never actually happened but I remember Thudley admitted he had entertained the thought in an interview with Michael Logan.

Re: I have heard the KZ rumor before. I also have read many times that it was planned that Cassie’s father was going to turn out to be Bill Bauer. But I also don’t know how much of than was real vs just speculation or wishful thinking. I had read before thay Mary Stuart was supposed to join Guiding Light around 1987 in the role of Hannah Bauer. I have no idea who Hannah was supposed to be -- perhaps Johnny and Lacey’s mother? But then Teri Keane ended up coming on as Johnny and Lacey’s mother Lainie. The only other Bauer I recall that was slated to be added was Todd, who was the brother of Johnny and Lacey. Supposedly Frank Dicoupolus was cast as Todd. But then Sheri Anderson was axed as head writer and Pam Long rehired. And Long dropped plans to introduce Todd and instead created the role of Frank Cooper. Or so the story goes. I have read there were a couple additional “faux” Bauers planned but never materialized. I remember reading that here on SON. The Henderson family failed miserably though but I seem to recall someone saying Russell was at least mentioned in passing by characters onscreen.

Ah yes, the notorious SOB tidbit that Y&R wanted a certain actress back but were aghast by her “changed appearance” once they located her in Arizona. Which why they supposedly when the Diane route instead and brought AD back. Most assume the actress is question was Lilibet Stern but I have seen some speculate it was actually Andrea Evans, who emerged from her post stalking trauma a couple years later as Tawny on B&B (and Tawny was exactly a glamorous character initially either).

@DRW50 Are you talking about the character that was named after writer Jerry Birn? That was an incredibly odd story. B&B would be the king of dropped plots over the years—Pierce and his creepy assistant Bailey, Amber’s twin, and half of what Thudley spoiled/proposed like from 2003-06 never came to fruition (ie Eric having a Lolita story, Forrester’s being written out in favor of Sydney Penny’s character family, Thomas gf going psycho etc) Same with Days… A few other examples outside of B&B and Days from other shows spring to mind: ATWT-Nikki Munson returns in 2004 and is just dropped as quickly. The actress really should have been a Molly recast. Also a “Julia” returned but turned out to be a completely different crazy Julia I wonder what happened there. GL-During the clone story the guy Sean from the island came to Springfield and was supposedly to have a major backstory in Springfield, but then was quickly dropped and never mentioned again. Y&R-Another show with a number of examples particularly during the Latham and Pratt eras, but one late Bell era story that didn’t really develop to me what the Geri Paulsen story. The show couldn’t decide what to do with the non-story. First it was just Victoria being paranoid and jealous, then it was hinted Geri might be OBSESSED with Cole, to finally Geri admitting she was smitten with Cole and then was completely dropped without mention again.

Late to the party but thanks for the laughs @Khan and @DRW50 for the 86-88 era of 9 to 5. I remember the series being heavily syndicated in the early 90’s (usually on those Indy stations that was destined to become UPN) and watching it with my one of my grandmothers. But when I watched a couple eps that popped up on YT…hoo boy was it…something not good lol. @Paul Raven Interesting that Hotel was #2 behind the A-Team for the week of 10/24/83-10/30/83…It surpassed #5 Dallas, #7 Dynasty, and #10 FC. It was only the 4th episode and outside of Robert Reed guest starring the rest of the guest cast was run of the mill 80’s B-listers (Leigh McCloskey, Leigh Taylor-Young, Dack Rambo etc.) I’d have to go back and see why the ep might have been so big.

LOL!! It’s funny all of those procedurals helped CBS long term but fans were left in the cold when it came to the abrupt endings of Cold Case, Without a Trace, CSI Miami and CSI NY, and even OG CSI. To add insult to injury NONE of them have survived In streaming or syndication the same way the Law & Order franchises are DOA Shows like The Good Wife, Elementary, Point of Interest, and even Evil had vocal enough fan bases to warrant good conclusions.

Does anyone ever remember watching David Jacobs’ Paradise? Western family drama with some serialized aspects. I feel like I might have liked it but also I’m not much of a western fan aside from a few movies/shows. PARADISE (also known as GUNS OF PARADISE for its final season) is a Western television series that aired on CBS from October 27, 1988, to May 10, 1991, totaling three seasons and 57 episodes. Set in 1890, the show centers around fictitious gunfighter Ethan Allen Cord (Lee Horsley) who is left the custody of his sister's four children after her death in a Nevada town. The show was created by David Jacobs, as both those Dallas and Knots were in a continuing decline -- at least ratings-wise -- on CBS. Meanwhile Lee Horsley was an actor who was pushed around as a leading actor on multiple short lived shows in the 80’s and ‘90’s. Paradise’s first season aired directly before Knots on Thursday nights before moving to Saturday nights at 8/7, and finally a shortened 13 episode 3rd season in the 8/7 as CBS unveiled an ultimately doomed Friday night drama line up of Paradise, Dallas, and Sons & Daughters in the spring of 1991.

The backstage clashes were definitely a big factor for sure. BTS Drama + Cast Changes + Bad timeslot = Disaster I was trying to think of a saving grace for each season for CBS. The 85-86 had The Equalizer but that’s it. The 86-87 season had Designing Women. I was coming up almost empty handed with the 87-88 season til I remembered Jake & The Fatman…really lol? The 88-89 season had Murphy Brown. The 89-90 season was another hard one…Major Dad and then I guess a summer replacement series with Northern Exposure.

Thanks @DRW50 Poor 9 to 5 had been done dirty. Regarding Masquerade, What is even wilder is not only was each episode very expensive to produce, but after seeing the weak ratings in the ABC attempted to move it to bolster ratings. The new timeslot? 9/8 on Friday nights. Whoever was in charge of programming ABC for the 83/84 and 84/85 seasons needed their head examined…

Yes, JG is that bad. I can assume he has a mandate of some sorts from our lovely executive in charge of nothing Steve Kent, but JG has proven track record of writing dark depressing and boring [!@#$%^&*] across multiple shows for the last 30 years (ATWT, Y&R, Days, Y&R again). He also has an ego that makes him think this is “genius” writing.

Thanks I was confused for a second as I knew Jorgeson had passed but thought he was talking about one of the Ben Reade actors. I remember really enjoying Molly’s return arc as well and I do remember Abigail’s brief return too. We never found out what happened to Adam and her which was probably for the best given what the show had done to Adam already.

Oh what actor was that?? As I far as knew Gregory Burke was still alive. Ugh I remember that. Not long after they brought in some recast named Alan White and boy he was TERRIBLE. Largely to close out the Chris/Abigail/Adam triangle (when Lucy Johnson infamously ordered Craig Lawlor’s dismissal, but that’s a whole other story) Unlike others I didn’t mind Bailey Chase in the role of Chris, although he was probably too old be in a triangle with barely legal Alison and Aaron and Chris being a doctor all of the sudden was weird. He also had some surprising chemistry with KMH, but Hogan lost interest and ended up writing out Chris while Chase went on to have a fairly decent career. As for the actress who played Abigail…ehhhh. Definitely lacking spark her contemporaries had and even other younger cast members from that era. She was way more memorable when she was on Passions a few years later LOL.

Going back to our 40th anniversary of the 85-86 TV season, here’s the ratings from 40 years ago from the week of March 10-16 1986:

Thanks @Franko ! The IMDB rating for “Between Two Brothers” is only a 5.4 LOL must have left a lasting negative impression. Taken aback to see Schneider in a dramatic role too.