soapfan770

The return of sitcoms' popularity in the mid-'80s was a real thing, but the crash of the wealth-based nighttime soap genre was resonate and self-induced. There was an effectively grim finality to the mood of the cliffhangers in the Spring of 1985: Bobby's death, the Moldavian massacre, the return of Val's babies... and they felt as if they could have ended right there (and perhaps they should have, although I would have sorely missed S10 of Dallas, S6 of FC, and Season 9 of Dynasty , and the next five years of KNOTS as they singularly maintained quality). But, wow, these shows just fell apart post-Spring 1985. They stopped being character dramas after a while, and just started trying to "impress" viewers in some superficial way and to "fake it" somehow. What a painful, unnecessary slide it was. But once these shows seemed to lose their identities, their sense of self, their momentum into the dung heap couldn't be slowed.

True indeed regarding Lewis Carroll’s books as it’s hard to find a decent adaptation. The Disney version combined both books, while casting Alice always seems dubious while trying to rely too much on all star talents. Sunday night television growing up was always…I guess family TV time? MSW and movies aside, I did like Life Goes on ABC as well. That said once Lois & Clark premiered my interest in MSW waned. Late 90’s/very early 00’s Sunday night Fox was just so easy to watch and provided something different (although I do think X-Files was better when it was on Fri nights than Sundays) I think that’s how Sunday night programming fundamentally changed across both broadcast and cable networks by the mid-00’s.

LOL! As a whole though the Alice books seem to be a difficult thing to adapt to live action television. Like what 14-15 years later NBC tried yet another miniseries along the same lines and the reception was just as divisive as I recall. I do actually remember that week’s Amazing Stories episode “Santa 85” vividly mainly because seeing Santa get arrested at that age was a bit shocking 🤣 That said, I thought it was a fever dream and actually had no idea what show I had watched until I was in high school and my 10th grade English teacher decided to just show us Christmas specials like the last 2-3 days that she has obviously recorded off TV on her VCR before Christmas break. @kalbir Thanks for the 12/16-12/22 recaps as well!! And same reaction to trying to remember Alice in Wonderland from ‘85.

Thanks @kalbir for the episode recaps! Definitely know I’ve watched that Golden Girls episode with Brent Collins from Another World many times before. Thanks for expanding on that. I vaguely remember this as a kid and then again when it got replayed years later on some cable channel in the early 90’s. Based on the reviews I could find out of curiosity it seems most people were mixed on the quality and saw one professional review gave it a single star. Also didn’t realize Part II aired on Tuesday against ABC. The crazy thing about Mary was this was the actual series premiere and still debuted in the middle of the pack just outside the Top 30 and would get worse from here. I feel bad for Our Family Honor. A soapy police/crime family drama that was at this time airing against the new hotness police/crime drama and an already established soap was just doomed. ABC should have let OFH air at 10 on Wednesdays, and then tried a new Saturday night lineup with Hotel at 9.

@kalbir Continuing on with the 40th anniversary of the 85-86 season, here are the ratings for the week of December 9-15 1985. MSW holding a tight grip at the #3 slot! Dallas only top 10 soap but the rest still in the top 20. FC even holding its own at #16 against #7 Miami Vice. It should be obvious that CBS Wednesday nights had bombed/flopped here. The Colby’s was also like DOA. Alice in Wonderland Part II’s drop was significant—what happened? Was Part I not well received? Riptide wasn’t faring well against new competition.

Definitely agreed! I will say I was pleasantly surprised a few years ago when Reba took on a more antagonistic/devious role on Big Sky during that show’s final season and absolutely sold the role.

LOL I just read this and laughed out loud, only because I’ve never seen Cidre do anything decent in whatever career she had. Having an interesting background just didn’t translate to her writing. After Dallas she had the disastrous show Blood & Oil (or Boring & Odious as I remember calling it lol) where she was dismissed after like the first 2 episodes and replaced with other writers and producers. Of course the show was cancelled after a few months on the air as ratings dropped fast and I don’t believe Cidre has ever worked again in the TV business since. To make this relevant, Blood & Oil was a big comeback miss for Don Johnson, especially since ABC had hyped the show up along with him as the star.

LOL! Unfortunately (or fortunately??) I’ve gotten so out of the loop with this travesty of a show I didn’t realize Luna was killed off again, at least for now anyway lol. I figure in a few months a disfigured Luna will be back stalking that Dylan girl.

Nobody told me the Stapler made a return presence this week 🤣🤣🤣🤣

I recently watched that LA Law episode for fun too a few months ago😅 Beginning Dec 4, the CBS schedule on Thursdays was (times Eastern/Pacific) 8:00 The Twilight Zone 8:30 Simon & Simon 9:30 Designing Women 10:00 Knots Landing

@DRW50 Thanks for sharing! The NY Times Review of the show wasn’t kind lol: PROBABLY the last thing prime-time television needs right now is another hospital-doctors show. Just about every emergency and heartwarming angle to be found on that particular scene is being exploited each week in NBC's ''St. Elsewhere,'' the kind of middlebrow soap opera that wins Emmy Awards (while virtually acing out ABC's ''Moonlighting,'' a far more original and offbeat romp). Nevertheless, CBS is bringing on, tonight at 10, ''Kay O'Brien,'' a series set in a New York hospital where everybody seems to speak in exclamations: ''We need more blood!'' ''C'mon, let's go!'' ''Do it!'' It is the practice of medicine seen as a football game. But while the surgeon, Dr. Kay O'Brien, called Kayo and played by Patricia Kalember, labors over a hot operating table (''All right, that takes care of the small intestine, but I still don't know what to do about this colon''), she is intended to embody some of the more pressing feminist issues of the day. The key points are constantly being spelled out. Perhaps Dr. Moffitt (Lane Smith), one of the good guys, puts it best: ''There are 75 surgeons here. You gotta be better than any of them. It ain't right. It ain't fair. But that's the way it is.'' And, by golly, she is better than anybody else, even when sabotaged by the nasty Dr. Doyle (Brian Benben), who is determined to ruin Kayo's professional reputation and to keep all women out of surgery's top ranks. Fortunately, Dr. Doyle is so despicable that the rest of the hospital keeps rooting for Kayo. Meanwhile, however, after returning home from one of her 36-hour shifts, Dr. O'Brien discovers that her live-in boyfriend, Sam (Franc Luz), has taken the Mister Coffee and left her a note complaining that she simply didn't have any time for ''a relationship.'' Dr. O'Brien is upset. As she confides to her friend Rosa Villanueva (Priscilla Lopez), the head nurse in surgery, Kayo is 28 years old and not beyond feeling lonely. But, she adds, in another one of those getting-the-point lines: ''A man can have a career and a relationship - is it too much to ask for a woman?'' Back at the hospital, before the end of this first hour - directed by Richard Michaels, written by Bryce Zable and Brad Markowitz - Kayo turns the tables on Dr. Doyle, charms a young boy patient with magic tricks and gets a visit from her boyfriend, who has now decided that he would like to move back in. But by this point, our hero - quoting her father to the effect that the only thing worse than fighting is being afraid to fight - is ready to walk off into the future proud and independent. The only thing that can stop her now are the ratings and scripts that aren't considerably more inspired than this one. Ouch. Obviously the initial lineup was an exercise in counter programming and it backfiring/tank jobs. The December 86 correction was even stranger but at least Knots was back in its usual timeslot. I wonder where else on the schedule this show could have aired on the schedule. It feels much more fitting like it could have been paired with something like Cagney & Lacey but that would’ve messed up the Monday night schedule. Perhaps just aired on Saturday nights? Couldn’t have hurt CBS already tumultuous Sat night lineup during the mid-late 80’s.

44 years ago today:

@DRW50 @Lujack4Ever Thanks both I actually came here immediately after seeing someone’s post ranting about Lujack’s death on Facebook in the GL history group I’m in. I think this was probably the most obvious sign for sure the Kobe/Long was going off the rails, and also Jeff Ryder wasn’t up to HW of GL. Many, many years ago there was a member who was a online friend of mine named Angel here at SON and WOST who was taken back by seeing similar criticism of Ryder because while she was at the now defunct University of the Arts she took a class by Ryder and according to her he actually spoke openly and warmly about his writing stint at GL. Obviously Lujack’s death was short sighted by all parties involved when perhaps a simple recast was in order. Instead the show had Simon Hall hoisted on it, Beth died herself while Judi found even more super stardom on Days, and eventually of course GL ended up with Nick. @Khan @DRW50 I still always wonder how Gail Kobe always felt about ending up at B&B being forced to do her job without drama/question after all was said and done with her time at GL and Texas. Actually I wonder why Bell even hired her. No one ever talks about her tenure at B&B lol. BTW regarding Meta @Mitch64 guess I have always thought that Joey was Meta’s legit son with Joe and never understood why he was ignored; similarly I vividly remember seeing a Bauer Family tree in I think either SOU or SOD around the 60th anniversary that not only indicated Joey was Meta’s son, but also Paul Kincaid was Bill’s son along with the existence of some other Bauer sibling (Douglas Bauer I think?).

Dependent on how Jane thought about Gale and Lucy of course!

@Khan @kalbir I still cling to my idea that Lucille Ball and Gale Gordon would’ve been better doing a short arc as villains (Angela’s goofy but wicked sister in law Lucinda Channing) under Jeff Feilich’s era ons Falcon Crest in 1986 than doing Life with Lucy 🤣🤣🤣 Also @Khan to follow up on the Orleans show, like New York News I was probably the only person in America or one of the very, very few people to watch at least 2 or 3 episodes. It wasn’t bad, typical judicial drama mixed with some family drama. There was an ongoing plot about Hagman’s character’s daughter being long since kidnapped and missing (it was very Samantha Mulder on X-Files minus aliens). CBS probably didn’t give it a chance, and the half primetime soap/half episodic format the show seemed to be angling for would work a lot better for shows like Providence and Judging Amy a couple years later.

BTG: A- Days: C+ Y&R: F B&B: Z-

I assume he was but I wonder what is name was lol.

@YRfan23 Who played Jumbo Man? 😆

Wow lol how did I miss this thread and how quick it blew up? 😅 Some additional stars I hadn’t seen mentioned yet.… @Khan Don’t forget about Larry Hagman. Of course I Dream of Jeannie and Dallas was his hits, but it seemed between the two shows he was just a working actor from guest role to guest role for much of the 70’s. After Dallas In 1997 CBS and Hagman tried to arrange a comeback with a show called Orleans, a blend of legal and family drama set in New Orleans. It premiered decently but immediately lost steam, and CBS actually promoted the fact that they were moving the show to 9PM/8PM on Fridays to the old Dallas timeslot. Obviously that failed even worse and the show was cancelled. Hagman had that brief recurring guest stint on Desperate Housewives but it didn’t go anywhere and that was right before the Dallas revival was announced. Speaking of Desperate Housewives have any of the actresses starred in anything major since? I know Cross and Huffman (before her arrest) starred in a couple of dismally failed ABC series. I know for a while there like around 2000 or so between Lois & Clark and DH Hatcher was actually best known for her Radio Shack commercials lol. Finally for now we’ve mentioned other stars like Robert Ulrich and Morgan Fairchild but what of other recurring stars like Valerie Mahaffey (may she RIP)? Some more modern primetime stars I can think of that had their hits and misses are definitely Peter Krause, Emily Van Camp, Noah Galvin (what a disaster lol), Marcia Gay Harden, and Zachary Quinto.

That’s what I thought too, so I’m glad he sounds like he’s doing much better. And thanks @janea4old! Most of the young Chance actors including Dekker, Courtland Mead, Alex D Linz and obviously Penn Badgely did other significant work. Oddly the kid who played the role the longest, Nicholas Pappaone did nothing else I don’t think. @DRW50 meant to tag you on this because it was no surprise to me to learn that Bryan Fuller was the one to out Dekker.

Came across a 3-year old interview from variety with Thomas Dekker (who’s first big acting gig was playing a young Phillip IV/Chance on Y&R) I hadn’t ever read before. Not sure what’s he’s doing these days and haven’t seen him since his Star Trek Picard episode a few years ago but I am glad he found sobriety and comfortable with his sexuality after years of public denial. I seem to recall him hitting a cyclist while drunk was the end of his career for a long time there: https://variety.com/2022/tv/columns/swimming-with-sharks-thomas-dekker-gay-outed-1235225805/

I feel very bad for BF that Giggly Heffa is being forced onto him. At least BF looked yummy in a scene that otherwise was very icky to watch. I still can’t believe Flynn took this role. He also seems a tad bored/underwhelmed sometimes I almost see the regret in his face.

LOL!!! 😂 He looks like he is reacting as if Luna just passed bad gas or something.

Most likely. The Family Man was also a Miller-Boyett sitcom, although why have a new untested sitcom lead off the night instead of at least giving the Hogan Family the lead seems puzzling. And again on a Saturday night…maybe CBS was hoping for those younger demos? Or contractual obligations to avoid any interference with other Miller-Boyett shows? Both shows were cancelled by seasons end. CBS’ other later attempts with Miller-Boyett of course were catastrophic failures as discussed previously. The CBS season of the Hogan Family was of course particularly dark-killing off a main character after contracting AIDS was definitely not your typical “tonight on a very special…” plot line so many other sitcoms of the era used. Once shows like Dynasty and Moonlighting fell off dramas on ABC had a hard time, even if they were critically acclaimed. It’s striking to see ABC so devoid of dramas for the bulk of the 90’s and early 00’s outside of fare like NYPD Blue, Lois & Clark, and I guess The Commish? Even well praised shows like Murder One and Once and Again ultimately failed after a couple seasons. It wasn’t until the 2004-05 season once Desperate Housewives, Lost, Grey’s Anatomy and Boston Legal got going that ABC leaned hard into dramas again.

I think Major Dad and Designing Women were fine where they were, and helped contribute to the even stronger Monday night schedule the following season. By the time CBS moved the shows in 1992 to build that Friday night block, it flopped hard as we’ve mentioned before. I’ve read WIOU was a solid show cancelled too soon, perhaps it should have aired on Monday @10 instead? At some point CBS would move Dallas back to 9 I believe in another desperate attempt to do something with that Fri night schedule. Sitcom heavy is right, and there’s some oddball things going on as well. CBS picked up The Hogan Family from NBC only to air it in a DOA Sat night timeslot at 8:30. Night Court still hanging on Friday nights with middling ratings. Dear John, once a hit on Thursdays at 9:30, became the poster child for the troubled NBC Thursday night 8:30/9:30 sitcoms as it failed to thrive once out of the slot. And as you mentioned there’s a lot of well low quality to garbage across all four network line-ups lol. Cop Rock, anything on CBS Thursday schedule not named Knots Landing, the glut of pointless sitcoms etc.