P.J.

On 12/14/2022 at 7:56 PM, soapfan770 said:

Definitely the most tortured couple for sure. Jack dies and comes back alive with amnesia, Carly messes up Jack’s career, Carly sleeps with Simon, Jack sleeps with Katie, Carly had mysterious illness, Carly sleeps with creepy ventriloquist guy, both sleep with their best friends, the insanity that was Juicy Janet and then of course alcoholic Carly was stuck in her own hell with a twisted triangle between her, Craig and Rosanna.

Thank god they actually ended with a happy ending. Yeesh.

Not  to nitpick, but Carly didn't sleep with "creepy ventriloquist guy". Sam (play by Wally Kurth), tried to rape Carly and Parker stopped him with a gunshot. Sam's lover Kit came and finished him off.

ATWT

60's   Lisa

70s     Kim

80s     Betsy, Sierra, Lily

90's     Lily

00s      Carly, Katie, Gwen

On 11/1/2022 at 8:53 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Worst: 

Jennifer Munson and Craig Montgomery- Just. Yuck. The same could be said of most of the affairs and relationships TPTB had Craig involved in during that time period. Just anachronistic, awful and without merit.

I'll up that---Craig and Dani, ATWT.  

ATWT--

Craig ---Scott Bryce's version in the 80's got the rare, full on emotional transformation from bastard to repentant transformed hero.  I can' even argue with HB's bastardized version, even if I loathed him.

I'd also add Steve Andropoulous in the early 80's, Holden in the late 80's and Jack Snyder. Certainly Bob Hughes  and John Dixon in the 70s.

GL

Philip Spaulding.  His was the only character who seemed to get as much focus as Reva in the mid/late 80's.

Roger

Ed (Mart Hulswit's version in the 70's)

they certainly tried with that awful Richard Winslow/Jeffery O'Neill guy.

Jonathan (Tom Pelphrey double ick)

Gus Aitoro (ick...)

21 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

During the ATWT reunion Tom Wiggin said the audience was so upset he chose Ellie over Iva. The viewers hated him and Ellie as a couple.

That's because we'd spent like two years invested in them before "cute little Ellie" slid under him and Marland blew them up. And as I remember it, there was no real angst---Kirk barely seemed to care who he was sleeping with. Yes...still salty.

The Lily reveal is what everyone brings up, but I thought her romance with Kirk was better. Their breakup broke my heart.  "Damn you---damn you for making me want and hope for things I could never, ever have with a man like you..."

I constantly complain about the writing for Iva in the ATWT thread, but never, ever about Lisa's performance. She never phoned her scenes in. 

Sigh---when I saw "ATWT Alum Passes", I surely didn't expect it to be Lisa.  Morgan/Kelly/Nola is the first triangle I really got involved in, and I remember when Bea stopped Nola dead in her tracks and confronted her about her lies. So sad.

8 hours ago, Mitch said:

 

Can anyone remind me about the Baby Aaron storyline..I was bored with ATWT at the time so only tuned in and out and it seemed everyday they were talking about this...how did Andy's name get on the birth certificate and why didnt they just say, "Hey Lily..Holden knocked up Julie and this is his kid and Iva adopted him..okay? One thing off of Lisa's plate.."

 

 

Julie had shown up on Andy's doorstep pregnant, and he started paying her bills. Lucinda found out and tried to pay Julie to claim Holden was the father to stop Holden and Lily's wedding. I think Andy signed the birth certificate so Aaron could be put up for adoption. 

Per usual, half the town lied to keep poor Lily's feelings from being hurt.

After Lily found out Lucinda had known that Holden was alive in NYC with amnesia, but hadn't told anyone. Around 92-93.

6 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

If Lily's adoption was illegal, how was she able to "divorce" Lucinda later on?

Well, I assume that after Martin bought Lily, he and Lucinda still went through the legal system to adopt her.  There's always some shady lawyer involved. 

On 10/7/2021 at 9:00 PM, lilyredd said:

Yup. Lucinda came to town to avenge Martin’s suicide which was blamed on Whit bankrupting his company. Marland changed it to he killed himself because of the fact Lily was illegally adopted. 

I didn't think it was a retcon. I thought Whit had blackmailed Martin with the knowledge of Lily's illegal adoption. Lucinda could hardly go around telling the truth about Martin's suicide. She was keeping Lily's adoption a secret.

8 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Well Lisa was obviously a lady who liked the institution of marriage! Grimaldi was her last married name and had a certain prestige. And wasn't it a happy marriage?

I could hardly see her going back to being known as Lisa Miller. That version of herself was long gone.

She probably would have preferred Lisa Hughes.

Eduardo died the day they were married, if memory serves. But she did love him very much. Unlike Whit, when she stopped using McCall before his body was even cool.

If the Earl Mitchell Center had still been being mentioned, maybe she would've returned to using that. 

On 8/10/2021 at 6:54 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Was Lisa still known as Grimaldi at the end of the series? For some reason that always struck me as strange. Eduardo had been deceased for how many years by then? I don't think Lisa ever stuck with a last name for that long. In a bizarre way, it was as if her identity no longer matter towards the end of the show's run anyway. They weren't writing for her, she was shunted off to the side, almost as if she were a non-person.  

I think so.  Especially since Damian popped in and out of town that last decade. Somewhere along the way they dropped McCloskey as Nancy's last name though. 

I could understand Susan retaining Stewart---it was her professional name, and the era in which she divorced, women commonly kept their husband's surname. I know I wouldn't have known who "Susan Burke" was prior to her eighties return. And while it's a trifle odd that the show used Stewart for Alison, in essence, she was entitled to it, as Emily was her biological mother.

Kim certainly never went back to Sullivan after her myriad of divorces and widowhoods.

2 hours ago, slick jones said:

Glad you appreciated it. It popped up in a 60s and 70s page on FB. The writer is a negative Nelly--he always is. I enjoy reading any takes on the shows I find.  The story about EF reminds me of a game of telephone. It's been told and re-told so many times there are hundreds of versions of it.

I've never even heard of anyone who described Bob as "unfeeling male obstinacy" walking.  Although, this was the 60/70s, and I know around the same time he didn't want his wife Jennifer to resume her career.

3 hours ago, Broderick said:

On the superficial surface, Lily was looking for a warm home full of love, and she felt she'd found that with the Synders.  But she could've found that in a variety of other places (including her own home, with a little more effort on her part).   She seemed to have a pre-"Paris Hilton Complex" where we can spend our days entertaining ourselves in poverty, and then rush home to our trust funds at night.  

I won't disagree that Lily could've put more into her relationships with her own family---but other than Lucinda, her family wasn't stable. She found out about Sierra as a teen, and then she was off and married and spent long periods presumed dead. There was a while when Lucinda and John were married where they had Andy, Duke and Bianca in the house as well, but that dissolved with the marriage.  I can't even recall her and Andy ever being very chummy, tbh. 

Lily was an attention vaccuum. She had the Snyders, Cal, Josh, whoever her boyfriend/lover was at the time, and eventually Rose. She was borderline narcissistic. But so was Lucinda.  

Yeah, as annoying as Lily was, I wouldn't go as far as saying she was "poverty touring" the Snyders. She was a spoiled, bratty but lonely child. She gravitated to them because of their family life, her attraction to Holden, and no doubt (at least at first) because it irritated her mother. And she did offer to help them financially. All of their rich friends did, at one time or another. Emma would time and time again refuse. I still recall, SMH, how Jarrod and Cal vied for Emma's affection by buying her new appliances. Which were returned, or eventually disappeared, and the older versions returned.

Lily was an annoying twit, and if she were being written now, her breakdowns would've been treated a little more seriously. 

I believe she was Ariana Chase when she appeared on the show. I don't recall that much about Melinda, other than she was a trouble maker and died after falling off a boat into a lake and getting hit in the head by said boat. She just died and was rarely ever mentioned again. 

I don't recall her appearing after Holden and Lily's 1999 wedding, where the Snyders all tricked Molly and stuffed her in the closet. I don't recall her ever having a scene with Agim Kaba. I do remember Graham Winton coming back a time or two, but I thought they explained Julie's absence by saying she had cancer.

31 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

I remember talk about them---but who is this supposed to be? 

I just can't see Ava/Nik working with TC in the role. I never saw TC as an engaging leading man. I have seen even the most wooden actors up their game with her (*coughMarkColliercough*)....but I can't see his Nik becoming emotionally connected to Ava.

I do wonder where Ava's story would've gone if the Nik story hadn't fallen through. Would she have still drugged Morgan because she was over-involved in Kiki's life? Or would she have come back all about Nik? If there's no drugging, there's no fire, there's no Griffin (oh, if only....) and possibly no Ryan.

5 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

Could be. I wasn't necessarily blaming the show - and now that you mention it she also had a lot of similar silhouettes as Diane - and I understand that it is a good look for her figure.
But whoever is responsible, I wish they'd switch it up a little. Her Carly wardrobe was more varied.

I think the only preference of Maura's that comes through is her hair. Ava's style has gone through a couple of phases. At least they've switched it up from the all-black/black and white after Kiki died to include colors again. They've thankfully veered away from the animal print obsession they had. But mostly I think it's about budget constraints. A basic black fitted skirt is easy to dress up or dress down with a few different belts or different blouses and the occasional jacket. 

And in the end, what's the difference between setting scenes at a baby shower, at a restaurant or at the hospital? The fact that people would have to specifically interact with each other? 

Give me ten females throwing barbs, pissy looks, and trying to keep the cake from being destroyed over a bomb anyday.

1 hour ago, AlexElizabeth said:

I feel like I'm missing something with this mob story. Admittedly I don't pay very close attention to this stuff. Carly was accepted at that meeting of the five families. Why don't they just say that she's taking over for Sonny as head of the organization, and that Jason is her enforcer just like he was for Sonny? I don't get it. Then once Sonny comes back to town and eventually gets his memory back, we could have the drama of Carly not wanting to give up her power. Instead we're probably getting a Jason/Carly marriage. I don't get how that makes them look less weak to these Novak people. This conflict all feels so forced.

Because they don't expect Jason to take orders from a woman, especially one with zero mob cred. Her filling in while he's on the run is one thing. But with Jason in the picture, they expect divided loyalties from inside the organization. Like with the driver who sold out to the Novaks.

In football, there's a saying---if you have two starting quarterbacks, you really have no starting quarterback. Everyone needs to know who's in charge and who they answer to.

7 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

 

Emotional connection is the main reason, yes. People see these characters day after day for years and go through all sorts of highs and lows with them. We could say fans are irrational for thinking about the responses of the actors, but then, I'm sure someone would say we're all irrational for talking about a TV show that ended a decade ago and was last good about 10-15 years before it ended. 

 

I do think that sometimes fans can be too hard on actors who sneer at their past soap work. I've been guilty of that myself. I suppose, in some cases like Meg Ryan, where I'd say she mostly just managed to do decent work for about 5 years of her career at most, the snobbery baffled me, but I suppose beyond the workload she may have had other bad experiences as I think the show was hellish backstage in those years. 

Honestly, I don't think I even realized Meg Ryan had "sneered" about her soap time until I started reading message boards, which was around the time Ryan was fading into the background of Hollywood. And I agree about her work. I've liked some of her movies, but not many, and she's basically used the same "quirky" energy she had on the show.