P.J.

I get your point, but Bob and Kim weren't a couple when she got pregnant. While Kim had at least one successful pairing with Dan (we could argue about Nick), Bob went through a string of not-so interesting women, or so I heard. Their friendship grew, granted, all through that time. But they really weren't what I would call a couple until like....'83?

I do wish Carly and Jack would've "co-existed" more. Although I wouldn't really have ever wanted to see them stable or happy with anyone else.   

2 hours ago, prefab1 said:

 

Speaking of CarJack... I know this will probably be an unpopular opinion, but while I liked both Maura West and Michael Park as actors, and I thought Carly and Jack were both well-defined characters who had a lot of chemistry together at one point, the Passanante era just made me so sick of CarJack as a couple. Most of their storylines seemed to keep falling into the same pattern: Carly does something that offends Jack's sense of morality, so he yells at her, then she yells back, then they break up for a while, then they get back together a few months later. 

 

It reminded me a lot of GL's Reva and Josh, another relationship I ultimately found toxic, with the man ultimately judging the woman and making her feel she wasn't good enough for him. That's why I'm probably the only one on these boards who preferred Reva with Jeffrey, who accepted her for exactly who she was. I actually felt the same way about Carly and Craig, and I thought Maura West had great chemistry with both Hunt Block and Jon Lindstrom, chemistry I wish the show had explored a bit more. 

Well, notice I said CarJack rocked----not always the writing for them. It often felt to me like TPTB knew they could yank strings and have their fans root for them. And you're right----the story was mostly "Carly bad, Jack good....wash, rinse, repeat".  I think CBS's  emphasis on female-driven story devolved into this trope  where the man was always right, and in some ways undercut their leading men. Both Josh and Jack got to the point where they looked like Puritans who ignored their mistakes and focused on correcting their woman. (Ironic when Josh started out as a horndog chasing anything in skirts, and Jack as an undercover cop who had gotten lost in the darker side of life...) 

At least CarJack got to touch on Jack's high-handed tendency to moralize.  I had quit caring about Josh and Reva 10 years before the show ended.

So...poor little Pissy "had her hands tied", and that's why her stories were repetitive and unmotivated? Really?  Yes, Gwen and Will may have had to be front burner---but there was nothing to write for them other than becoming baby-obsessed at 20?  It was important for Brad to come back younger than Jack---even though that completely contradicted what we'd seen play out on screen, and vastly changed Jack's backstory (if one thought about it....which of course, the show wouldn't have wanted us to do....)? 

Making it make a little sense is a low threshold, and Pissy rarely even made that.  There are so many stories that could have made more sense, had someone in the writing room taken five minutes and thought about the "why" of things, and restrained themselves from going that one last step that made things distasteful. 

RE: the critical nature of the discussion. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad it's not just some rah-rah, "everything was GREAT" discussion, but sometimes it does get me down. I try and remember everyone has the right to express their opinions. But for me, Marland was a GOD, the Snyders were a breath of fresh air, and CARJACK ROCKED.  

Considering ATWT's long history, I'm surprised I can't think of more examples.  Josh impregnated both Iva and Meg, who are adoptive sisters. 

Reva also had a child with Josh and Billy's father H.B., though she lost that. 

3 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

 

It is a bit the same for me with YR's Brad. On paper there was not much to the character other than what happened to him and the women in his life. But DD is very charismatic and charming and gave him enough substance that you almost forgot that he didn't really have a defined personality.

It is all very subjective though of course.
 

 

If Diamont was still playing Brad, I'd have put him on my list. 

Somehow, I doubt it.  I'm positive if you could dig up viewers' opinions from the 60's, you'd find the same kinds of complaints. The real difference is  social media allowing fans to connect with each other, vs them sending their complaints directly to the studio or actor via fan mail.

8 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

 

Meanwhile, good luck trying to explain what DOOL's Eric or YR's Paul or GL's Frank (all good choices) are about to someone who has never watched the show other than "decent guy, I guess". Neither has ever been on so much as to be grating, has ever done anything objectionable or memorable or interesting. They're there. 

Well, in Paul's defense, I'm old enough to remember the young, slightly shady, disappointment to his father Paul.  The one who was Victor's paid henchman, keeping an eye on his prisoner in the basement (Victor's first wife Julia'a lover---Nick the photographer, IIRC) and going undercover to clear his father of allegations of being a dirty cop (I think, it was a long time ago).  I'd never claim that DD was in the echelon of the likes of Michael Zaslow et al....but he's better than the vacant hair models stereotypes.  

As for Scott Holmes, crc.....is he bland....or just bad? *shrug*

God, Frank on GL owns this thread.  Frank Dicopolous---hell of a nice guy, but was only briefly a leading man because he hit the lottery and Melina Kanakaredes was cast as Eleni. Otherwise, he would've forever been a footnote as Harley's brother.

John McCook

I'm wracking my brain for more, but it's really hard to separate poor acting leading men (like Josh Morrow, Steve Burton, Shawn Christian)  from the  merely bland. 

Personally, I don't think Y&R, B&B, or CBS in general value any former CBS/P&G actors, period. And even Y&R isn't interested in giving Jack (or any older character) a story with an age appropriate actor.  They'd do round ten of Jack/Nikki because of "history" or Jack/Phyllis round 1089.... but if he goes chasing new vajayjay---it's going to be young. 

35 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

 

Speaking of 1985, I'm a bit confused: in June of 1985, didn't Bob and Kim already get married in April?  I seem to remember Craig and Sierra went to the wedding/reception together.  Yet, they're in Montega in June 1985?? For what purpose?  I remember they were in Montega in January 1985 and got separated, which is why Craig got false "intelligence" that Sierra was dead (which Steve's bio father Michael Christopher set up to trick the junta into giving up their search for Sierra).  Did they return to Montega after Sierra arrived in Oakdale?

 

I think Sierra and Craig went back to her father's estate to try and find out more information about her mother. Because, of course, why not venture into a civil war on a random weekend? 

The big one I recall is Grant Aleksander returning to GL after John Bolger took over the role. Bolger didn't leave much of an impression on me---and every once in a while I catch old GL episodes with him in it, and he's just not Phillip.  I guess GL pretty much agreed, I don't think they ever recast the role again when GA left.

I think there's a fine line---Rattray was better suited for the version of Lily that she portrayed. I can't imagine Byrne pulling off that cold, controlling, Lucinda-like vibe Lily had when she first returned. And part of my problem with Byrne is I never felt she grew as an actress. Now, whether that was because Lily was forced to circle back to Holden time and time again, or simply because Byrne only has so much in her wheelhouse, I don't know. 

It's personal preference. Just like Scott Bryce will always be my Craig, or Melanie Smith the superior Emily. 

Re: the Spa. The actual "Spa" part, with the blue drinks and Larkin Malloy---yeah, not so much. But I get why Martha, Kelley and Maura enjoyed it. They got to step outside their characters a bit, and for Kelley and Maura, it was easier to lounge around in white fluffy robes while preggers. And afterwards, at least for a while, they got to play the friendship out. Neither Emily or Carly really had women friends on the show (outside of family). Lily neither, although Rose had Mitzi.

Emma was sort of the flip side of Lisa. Lisa took in "bad" girls. Emma took in the "good" girls/runaways. Seriously, if there was one trope Marland ran into the ground, it was the "rich girl who finds herself" at the farm. 

True enough.

Michael on GH. He needs a serious reset as well. "Quiet and methodical" just doesn't work for a Q by blood/Mob by upbringing Mover and Shaker. 

1 hour ago, soapfan770 said:

 

 

How I remember some these details and not some of my own passwords is a great question really....

LOL...at one point, I could recite who found out about Aaron in order, and how much of the truth they actually got at the time. And I only remember the Aaron/Lucy angle here because it ended up impacting Carly/Jack. 

One wonders why Holden would've been surprised about Caleb having "anger issues". He always had them. 

When Aaron came to town in '02 he came in as a runaway with the Snyders finding out Caleb & Julie had been reckless/irresponsible/neglectful of him

That's not the way I remember it. Aaron ran away because he and Caleb had been butting heads. Then there was something about him having had an affair with a married woman (which Craig ambushed Lucy with to try and torpedo the relationship). 

3 hours ago, carolineg said:

Absolutely.  And you can add Nina to the list of those already mentioned.  And Willow/Sasha.  I know they drive story but I think they are the same character.  We don't need two of them lol.

I don't think Jax is a dead weight character due to his history of being popular, but he really is misused now and has no purpose.

I like Watros, but Nina isn't needed. 

So many male characters should be positioned to challenge (or check) Sonny, but of course....can't.....RME.

3 minutes ago, carolineg said:

It's amazing how many dead weight characters GH has lol.  

 

Peter-there are no words.  He should thank his lucky stars LW is his girlfriend and keeps him employed.

And how much story/airtime they suck up. (and that's not even counting the sacred cows---this show is top heavy in deadweight...)

Yep. 

GH = Peter

5 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I knew it was them before the YouTube screen popped up.

 

@P.J. is going to love this.

 

I've always found Michael Park sexy. He oozes I am nice guy and sexy too..lol

Not lying---pee'd my pants a little.... LOL. And while I adore CarJack----what's sweeter is that Maura and Michael truly adore and support each other. 

Those are the Carmen Miranda of earrings. My guess is that's a little bit of Lisa leaking through Iva's normally subdued wardrobe. 

I thought the Lorraine Broderick era was better than advertised as well. Kathryn Hays got a moving anniversary episode, the church fire/Teague saga, etc. Some great casting--Danny Markel/David, Mikey Park, Peter Parros, Lauren B Martin---all great. 

There were also flaws, but they seem trivial in light of what passes for daytime now. There were some revolving personalities/characters (firing Danny Markel for Keith Coulouris? The Brad parade, Andy being so desperate over Denise, the frustrating, constant flux of the terms of Carly's trust), but Broderick knew how to build to a climax, and move characters towards growth. Sheffer simply kept his characters in vicious circles. 

Re Carly and Molly caring about each other----they did, but a lot of time early on, they simply intersected to catch each other up on their respective schemes.  Each would offer the other sound advice, but they'd usually ignore it to further their own established agenda. They had each other's backs---it just wasn't always in a positive way. At least until they grew a little and got involved with good men.

2 hours ago, chrisml said:

I never watched ATWT consistently, but in going through some old magazines, I found a lot of complaints about Marland's ATWT during the early part of the nineties. There was a lot of talk about some long drawn out murder mystery that everyone seemed to hate. I think it was over some Carolyn Crawford woman and the actor Rex Smith was involved.

Yeah, it was infamous. Marland had a habit of "layering" a new character in. (It's annoying and brilliant all at the same time...) Darryl was a new client of Lucinda's, who happened to go to high school with Margo, and happened to randomly impregnate Barb while she and Hal were "on a break" and fell for Barb's half sister Frannie after his wife was murdered. The murder of Carolyn was drawn out because of a writer's strike, centered on four newbie characters and was one of the few times Marland switched horses mid-story, backtracking on Darryl as the murderer.