P.J.

Honestly, I don't pay that much attention to the trial. I mainly watch those episodes to catch Ross and Vanessa, who is dashing around like a mad hatter getting Ross ready for court. Is she concerned about truth or justice? NOPE. Her main concern is whether or not Ross' pocket hankie is fresh. LOL. I'm not sure what soured Mike on Alex. One episode they're flying a plane, the next he ends up escorting Lillian to Founder's Day. You'd have thought as much as he hated Alan, he'd have been thrilled Alex got one over on him.

Honestly, Mike more than once comes off like an [!@#$%^&*]. there's a moment when after scoring points against Alan at the custody hearing, Elizabeth's a little concerned about how Alan's going to handle it, and Mike is smiling that he stuck it to Alan. And I don't like how Mike treated Trish when they're breaking up (not that they were more than kissing friends, but still). Alan gives Trish a bracelet, Mike finds out and really lays into her, not really listening when she denies an affair (well, it's not at that point) or that Hope is drinking too much. Then there's the way he forces the truth out of Jennifer on the stand at the trial. Granted, she is stupid for risking jail rather than simply admitting she had a child, but still.

I do love when Phillip pins them to the wall and figures out a lot of people knew. Alan had told Hope, Jackie, Justin and Ross knew, Ed knew and had told Maureen, I believe.

Which is probably part of the reason Phillip was a fan favorite. They knew he'd been !@#$%^&*]ed up as a kid by these "loving" adults. I give Marland some slack. I kind of detest Elizabeth, and see her as a spineless wonder. I can see where it would be hard to write for her believably. The fact she scoots off to Europe and never visits Phillip again almost seems in character for her. Maybe the Dobsons had some kind of spine for her, but I can't envision it.

LOL...for all of Marland's wizardry, there are times the writing is just so...trite(?) Fall, hit head, mumble secret. Or the ever-present "skulk in doorway and over hear secret." It was almost refreshing when Vanessa simply blatantly snooped through files. The other thing i off-handedly wondered was if all "the fancy parties" at the country club kind of put the Reardons (like Tony) in a corner. You would've really had to invent a huge reason for them to ever be there (like Nola's engagement party, and I think Nola then guilts Vanessa into inviting them to the masquerade that introduces Alexandra to town). Where the Lewises like to cling to their "down home" roots, they were very comfortable dressing the part and putting on that tux. Tony, Jim and later Rusty Shayne never were comfortable in that millieu.

LOL...that's ok. As you can see, my know-it-all-itis/explain-it-all-itis is operating in full force this morning!

Hamp at least was in the original version of the opening. (the earliest I could find skimming was July'91) It went Blake, Billy, weird pic of Mo and Ed, Alex, Roger, Hamp, Mindy, Mallet, Vanessa, Dylan, and Harley. And that went untouched for at least a year. At some point, I recall Eleni, Alan-Michael and Nick being added. So a lot of characters weren't included originally. Josh, Reva, Phillip, Beth and Rick weren't, because they were either gone (Reva) or leaving shortly (Josh, Phillip, Beth, Rick) that you would expect. By May '92, the lineup is Blake, Billy, Holly (pic of Ed/Mo is bigger, but still weird) Ross, Alex, Roger, Hamp, Mindy, Mallet, Vanessa, Dylan, Nick, Harley. I'm not sure Eugene Troobnick (Stavos) was ever a contract role, while Larry Gates and William Roerick (HB and Henry) would drift back and forth over the years.

Looking at the timing, I'm not sure that's necessarily what happened. When Doug took over in '80, Justin is married to Elizabeth, Alan and Hope are just marrying (April? It's before Vanessa arrives in June), and Jackie and Alan have just divorced. Cindy Pickett is taking time away from the show (I gather). In the May '80 recap, (which would be February/March) Jackie takes off to Rome, leaving Justin a note apologizing for disrupting his life with the truth about Phillip. Elizabeth doesn't tell Mike the truth about Phillip until Christmas '80. I'm not exactly sure when Alan finds out Jackie and Justin are Phillip's natural parents. (It may even be after Jackie's death in '82, because he didn't know before Diane's death in Sept '81) Marland has to write Roger's exit. Cindy Pickett briefly returns, but leaves the show and Carrie Mowbry is cast. (July '80) I think Marland may have felt he then needed time to build up the reveal. The first scenes I've caught with Mowbry are Jackie, Justin and Phillip talking about taking a trip. So essentially, Marland has to rebuild Jackie/Justin, invest in the Mike/Elizabeth relationship, and get Alan/Hope to a point where Alan would trust her with the truth. He also has to give the audience time to adjust to Mowbry as Jackie and make the connection between Jackie and Phillip seem as natural as Pickett's was with Jarrod Ross. Whether Dalton was fired or she chose to leave I'm not sure, but Ross' last appearance as Phillip is also around this time. The reveal that Amanda was Alan's was January '81. Both Hope and Jackie give birth to children around August of '81. So I could see where maybe Marland was putting the pieces in place for Phillip to feel devastated and displaced by both sets of parents. He just ran out of time when he abruptly left in '82, whether he had actually planned for Jackie to die or that was forced upon him with Mowbry's firing. And as I just remembered, 1981 had a writer's strike that wasn't resolved until late July or August, as there's the story of the writers literally writing the Kelly/Nola confrontation as it was being taped. Yes, it seems like a long time (and there were obvious stories Marland was heavily into like Nola/Kelly/Morgan, Carrie) but this is also the guy who took his sweet time with ATWT's Adam reveal, which hit the three year mark before Hal found out he was a father. Meanwhile, almost everyone else in town seemed to know. The Aaron reveal also took YEARS.

I assume that it was originally written in '90 with lyrics. We just never heard the lyrics until '92, at Hamp and Gilly's wedding. I kind of assume "My Guiding Light" was also written with lyrics in mind, but we just never heard them. Although it's hard to imagine any lyrics to that music.

eeee...I don't like it. Any of it. Side note: I went through the end credits. This has to be '94 (as both **** and Tangie are in the credits), and to see how many of the writing credits have changed. Not just the HW, but the scriptwriters. That was one thing I had noticed---through a lot of the '80's the scriptwriters had remained fairly stable. Names I recognized as being on ATWT so much later (like Melissa Salmons, who I adored) or knew (like Patrick Mulcahey) are gone. No wonder there's a shift in character's personalities. And this is one of the few times I've caught Vanessa credited as Vanessa Chamberlain Lewis. It was always either Chamberlain or Lewis. Not both. Dinah is credited as Dinah Chamberlain Marler, which they never referred to her as, to my recollection. She's always been Dinah Marler. And I have no idea why (when he's contract) Bryan Buffinton's picture isn't first. It's like some suit decided a child's picture just can't lead off. There was also a weird period of time when his picture was first, but his name was buried in the middle, or his picture was on twice.

Via recaps, June '80 seems to have Jackie and Justin coincidentally meeting in London. They switch hotel rooms, and when Elizabeth calls Justin, Jackie answers. Carrie Mowrey's first airdate seems to be in late July. The first episode I caught with her is dated July 25.

Well, Rita also sounds like a horrible person on paper. Both Cindy and Lenore made it work, somehow. We do criticize Long and Kobe a lot. But they did do some things right. I loved the introduction of Billy and Mindy, the Four Muskeeters, the romance of the summer of '83.

Given that OLTL and Loving's virtually look the same, of course I'd vote for Guiding Light. it's arguably GL's most iconic opening. (Even if I love "My Guiding Light", just a hair more.)

Y'know, I'd heard about the article, but I'd never read it. So thanks! I'd never read an interview with him. Or at least that I can remember. I'd always assumed he avoided publicity.

I'm by no means a Y&R historian, but even with Y&R switching out families, they kept their juiciest (arguably) rivalry, Kay vs. Jill. It still leaned into a familar family dynamic-- the Fosters became the Williamses, and the Brooks the Abbotts, with Jack and Ashley subbing in for Laurie/Leslie. After it was clear they couldn't mimic GH's mystery/adventure vibe (the Dreaming Death, Infinity, the Valere affair---although in retrospect, Infinity is not nearly as bad as it's infamy suggests) they did what ATWT under Marland was doing---went back and mined their own history, bringing back Long and refocusing on the core of the '80's--the Spauldings and Lewises. If there's one character who rivals Reva for "defining" the last 25 years of Guiding Light, it's Phillip. Bell had a vision, and he stuck to it. GL rarely had that luxury.

It boils down to bad management. After the Dobsons were shuttled off to ATWT (which didn't work), there's literally no consistency in the head office. If they got a writer, they'd ditch talent. If they had talent, they hemorrhaged writers. Because they ditched talent, they wrote for a bunch of newbies. Because the newbies sucked, the writers got canned. It's a vicious cycle. (The same thing happens in sports teams when there's a constant head coach turnover.) It's no coincidence that Y&R, who rises through the '80s, is a model of consistency. I don't think Bell was a better writer than Marland, but he had the creative control. Y&R had it's own look, it's own style, and the viewers fed on it for YEARS. Other shows had bad luck, or lost popular performers, or had performers come and go and come back. GL even managed to right the ship for a while under Long's second stint/Curlee era. But it is shockingly unstable for the last thirty years.

Personally, I wouldn't blame Elvera if she was disappointed in the way the story of Hope's alcoholism developed. Much like Vanessa's pill addiction, it seemed to blow up out of nowhere and immediately result in her becoming a falling-down drunk.

Latest reason to hate on ****. I torture myself skimming through '09 for Vanessa/Billy scenes. Twice now, I've caught pathetic rumblings from $$$$. First scene---Josh is venting to $$$$ about how he still has feels for Reva, but can't hate Jeff because "he's a good guy." $$$$ has the unmitigated gall to say that he understands--that every time he sees Billy with Vanessa he wants to slap (or punch) Billy in the face. Second scene---&&&& and Rick are off in the corner at Bill Lizzie's engagement party. Rick whines about something (probably not having a woman, because this seems to be a theme at this point in any scene with Josh, Frank, Rick or $$$$) and #### goes "I know---Billy's over there with MY wife." It's so pathetic, I want to laugh (and there's an entire on the downlow vibe about these men whining, because they all start lusting after Liv who they don't know is a lesbian). But I really would just want to punch #### in the throat. At least I can be happy---Vanessa never has to act like she misses ####.

I know there had to be someone somebody could think of!

Now @DRW50 you know I tried hard not to bring Jack up, even though he's the only example I can think of that worked. There must be others. The "newness" of the Snyders might have been a factor. When they tried making that Lord whoever a Stewart in the 80s (the one who married Marcy) that didn't really fly either.

It's odd when you think about it. On paper, Trish isn't the strongest character to build a family around. Or the member most would choose first to introduce. Contrast her with Nola, who's the first Reardon we meet. But both came in with purpose. Nola is mixed up in Roger's scheming, and Trish is out to get Andy. Both quickly sketch out family and a family dynamic (Trish married against her family's wishes, Nola is the troublesome baby sister). Josh and Tony are introduced soon after. Like you said with Johnny, he just plops into town. Other than being the town hunk, he doesn't seem to serve much of a purpose. The Valere murder case is tied to a bunch of newcomers (save Alan...although I don't watch enough of it to remember most of the story). If there's any real mention of his family, it's to assure us Johnny's a Bauer. To my recollection, Johnny was probably on a year before they cast Lacey or his parents. And they just plop into town. What is something to think about (as long as Frankie D was cast as Todd) is whether adding Frankie D and Beth Ehlers (as a recast Lacey) would've saved Johnny's Bauers. Viewers always seem to end up resenting "fake" family history, so I doubt it.

Who was Elizabeth Allen? Wasn't the actress who played Jane also on Texas?

LOL...uhm...he's definitely more conventionally handsome and wears a suit well. If he and Jordan both tested with Maeve, I'd love to hear what she remembered. Re Marland---like I said, as much as I love him, he didn't write larger than life characters (other than arguably Lucinda, and he didn't create her, IIRC.) All I can really imagine is his version of the Snyders with his Billy being very Seth-like, the responsible oldest son with Josh as a blend of Caleb/Holden. While that worked for the Snyders, I can't imagine the Lewises without Billy's soul.

I did check out like half and episode with Carla Borelli, and generally wasn't impressed. It was some strange scenario where her character was preparing to ride a horse, and ended up hitting someone with a riding crop. I guess it was supposed to be zexy, but just came off as weird. To me, she came off as too much like Vanessa. I can't see her selling Reva's background as "the help's daughter". Her being that much older than Robert Newman would've put a whole other spin on the Josh/Reva affair. Robert is younger than Kim, iirc, so I can't see Borelli being portrayed as younger than Josh. Did anyone posting like Borelli in her role? Thoughts?

I know peeps are going to point at the Lewises and the decimation of the vets and say them. I thought both families were initially integrated well (the Coopers replacing the blue-collar Reardons; the Lewises to give the Spauldings some rivals, which they hadn't really had since the earliest days of Henry and Vanessa). Buzz and Reva (imo) are the only members of either family who really eat the show. So I guess it's dealer's choice?