P.J.

I understand getting tired of what the "supercouple" became, when it took on some kind of treadmill quality. (OMG, Brooke and Ridge broke up more than Carjack...) But I never got tired of Michael and Maura's chemistry. I would have appreciated some variety in the story (Carly screws up usually grasping for money) and more actual lulls where they were just happy (I got one solid year between Sage's birth and Jack going off the bridge---that's really it.) re Holden: I can't imagine a worse fate than being stuck with Jon Hensley. You could practically hear him snoring through the role. At the point TIIC needed to bring on Rose to find something for Martha to do, they should have simply committed to a permanent breakup between Holden/Lily. But here's the thing---if you want to go there with Holden and Carly---don't write it as a skeevefest where they go at it at a children's camp and have his preteen daughter walk in on them. Just them kissing would have set off enough fireworks had they been walked in on. But because Lily had to be the injured party, Holden had to be leading both Carly and Lily on, and yet somehow walk away unscathed, while Carly nearly got her ass run over by a demented Lily. re Andy: I have to wonder if part of the reason why he wasn't recast is because Scott was married to Maura. Yes, they're all professionals, and people move on, and maybe Scott was just over acting ('cause he's never really done much else since.) But I'm not sure you want to test those waters. And I'm not sure a significant part of the viewers would have accepted a recast. We didn't watch one Chris grow up on the show. Paul was recast multiple times, and there were a lot of people I knew who despised Howarth in the role. Dusty had at least 15 years between recasts and don't get me started on retooled/revised/destroyed Craig under the Sheffer regime.

Okay...now you're just being mean. Carly never would have found either of those losers remotely interesting. (Holden/Carly seriously to this day makes me want to vomit...) TIIC made a huge mistake in ever attempting to sell any kind of relationship between Carly and those two idiots. I'll concede TIIC could have at least made the effort to give Carly someone other than Jack that could have been a positive force in her life....but that would have had to been a new character, and not just two walking dicks off the recycle heap. I just meant to be funny. I understand Carjack exhaustion---you can't have your heart ripped out every six months and not wonder if you're insane for still caring.

I wouldn't even go that far. Andy didn't fit Hogan Sheffer's vision of a "macho" man...therefore he brought in pigCraig, NeanderthalDusty, dyfunctionalpsychoticPaul, and even dimwits like Mike and Simon. Damn right Andy would've been 1000 times better. And I think it's a travesty that Kim's one biological grandchild didn't even get to be SOARSed on the show. As for the Carjack comments---just know that I'm praying for all your souls. :heart:

I think Maura may have been prominent whether Julie was there or not, mostly because she was getting a lot of praise and notice by spring or summer '95 - around the time she dropped her cigarette in the Snyder pond. The thing with Carly in that period is she was dark and malevolent, with her vulnerability mostly just shown with Mike, and as the character became more popular (and Valente seemed to realize Yvonne Perry wasn't capable of being a sympathetic lead). Julie just never was like that. She was neurotic and a little sad, a girl who never grew up. I always felt like Carly's later years had stories that would have made more sense as old Julie castoffs (the fling with Holden, the romance with Simon). What made Carly different was that ATWT hadn't had a vixen like her in a very long time. She was sexual, she was dark, she was unapologetic trash, and she was volatile, which Marland women generally were not (his vixens were often extremely cold and asexual). Yet she was also oddly relateable, because she felt a lot of things no one in Oakdale ever allowed themselves to say (likely one of the reasons Janice was popular with a number of viewers the year before). LOL...I have never thought of Carly in those terms. Although admittedly, I don't recall a lot of specifics of her first run, and I kind of shy away from watching vids of it. I would like to think Marland would have embraced writing for Maura, who I equate on the same level as Lisa Brown and Jane Elliot. Re: Mark Galloway---he was involved with Susan. The only mention I can find about him in the big book is that he was Susan's boyfriend at the time she sued Dan for sole custody of Emily. Mark didn't like kids, and one time while they argued, Emily disappeared. Dan used that as an opportunity to sue for full custody and Mark ended up testifying that Susan was an unfit mother. AH wasn't the original Mark, the book lists another actor in the part in '74.

I think Lisa was an early prototype for Carly. I love Carly, but there wasn't a lot "original" about the character----young troublemaking female. I mean, Julie was a slightly sluttier version of Carly. Marcy (who I believe is who you're referring to) was a bit more cold-blooded. Molly slightly dumber, and on and on. I don't think Julie was the end all be all of bad girls, but if SMS hadn't been fired, I'm not sure Maura would have been welcomed back with open arms in '97. Which to my world, would have been a travesty. lol I would have loved Andy to stick around, but I think there was more than enough room in Oakdale for him and Jack. And better yet, both of them in town as "good" guys who just didn't necessarily like each other.

Just for the record, I never said I only blamed CBS. But CBS is the one trying to "honor" shows on the piss-poor excuse of a talk show. I did see there's some Paley Center exhibit. I can't see what they'd have from ATWT or GL left to display. Meanwhile, I'm sure Julie Chen's shoes or some drab suit of Drew Carey's will be the highlight of the show.

*calls the National How to Stage an Intervention Hotline*

I was diplomatically trying to honor her status in the soap legend pantheon. I don't know at what point she started overacting. It would be interesting to sample her work and see at what point she just let go. I guess I was trying to also get clarification---was Marland hired in Sept 85, or was that when his work started airing? If it started airing in Sept, my guess is he could have impacted whether or not Frank and Maggie stayed or went. He would have surely had a plan in place and probably been writing/outlining for a couple of months before that.

yeah, uhm, just no to the idea of Lucinda and Lisa fighting over John. Besides the fact it would have given Fulton every opportunity to overact more than she did the last ten years, both relationships were already way past their expiration dates. As much as I admire Bryggman, I really don't know what they could have done with him those last five years. He wasn't going to be happy with being trotted out two or three times a month in the role of "wise(ish) grandpa". (I guess I can't say if Don Hastings was happy with that kind of role either, but he stepped into it gracefully.) And I thought the story was that Marland consulted for ATWT before taking over HW duties in 1985?

Wow---I have zero recollection of John having a brother on the show. Or of Brock having something to do with Duke's story. Thanks for filling me in. Re: Steve. I remember being caught up in Steve and Betsy's romance and thinking Craig was just short of the devil for keeping them apart. But I also think that my POV has evolved a lot, as has the viewerships' in general. Sure, Steve got more overbearing after they married and after Ryan left to cause some kind of tension in their marriage, but we're also looking back at behavior that would either be a bad example or completely unrootable (couple-wise) on soaps today.

Because Lucinda had walked all over John, lying her ass off to him. The breaking point (IIRC) was her trying to ship Duke out of town, right? Or was it the Holden thing? I think by the time they could have maybe reunited them, the "family" dynamic they had with all the assorted family members bunking at the Walsh estate at one time or another had disbanded. Lily was gone, Andy was living with Julie and boozing, Duke obviously couldn't live with Lucinda, etc. Plus, Lisa Brown and Bryggman were dating and Iva and John hooked up. Then Marland died, and both Lucinda and John moved on.

Part of the reason Steve "took off" was obviously the pairing with Betsy. But also I think there was a bit of fascination with Greece and the Greek culture in the '70's-early'80's in general, due to the Jackie Kennedy/Ari Onassis marriage. Sure, in retrospect, he comes off as an overbearing chauvinist pig (and his brother Nick wasn't any better with Kim), but at the time, he was a character that shook up whitebread Oakdale.

*waves* Damn right I hated Rose and the accent she rode in on. Not because I loved Lily (who had degenerated into the lowest form of twitdom---ugh, I remember being done with the bitch the minute she handed over Hope without even bothering to tell Holden--aka, the man who'd truly bonded with that child for a year while Lily was going through her baby blues or whatever---over to that crackhead bitch that sold her baby to David Freakin' Stenbeck. I hated Rose because she ate the goddamn show. They served up that cutie-patootie Paul (Hoylrod) up on a platter to that aging showgirl. That's reason enough. (*teehee* it feels good to vent. ) YEP! *stands up to be counted* That twit and her fairytale stories.....BARF. The kid Jack chases and then tries to save off the pier? Yep, that's the same kid.

I saw that episode and that didn't show them cosummating their relationship. Steve was always ranting about Craig because he and Craig had bad blood and Steve continued to distrust Craig, period. He also knew that Craig was still pining for Sierra, so Steve was convinced that Iva would get terribly hurt. Steve and Iva were very close, Steve felt a personal duty to protect Iva, starting from when one of his employees practically tried to jump Iva's bones and Steve caught him, threw him out and fired him. Steve and Iva were so close, that Meg was somehow convinced that he and Iva were having an affair and used to insinuate this to Iva several times (while throwing the fact that Iva had already had an affair with her married boss, Tad Channing). It's just strange that on a soap opera where I even remember seeing Iva's mother, Emma, in bed with her boyfriends (John, that same year) I don't ever remember a scene with Iva and Craig in bed together, where I've even seen Thanks for confirming that! LOL....I'd hate to wonder what my brain was thinking if it hadn't been shown onscreen. Maybe you're right---Tonio was already there to be the bad guy, and it might have made Craig seem like a man-ho to have him jumping Iva (after his long list of conquests) while longing for Sierra. Marland didn't go the obvious route and have Iva come between Steve and Betsy...so maybe it was a way of showing that Craig wasn't "using" Iva to get over Sierra and was reformed. But it seems really weird to me then (if they weren't lovers) that Iva doesn't get laid on the show until like late '88 or early '89 when Kirk shows up.

That's really not true. A show having more than one lead Emmy nod has been pretty standard over the years. Many soaps -- including AMC, EON, OLTL, GH, GL, AW, Y&R -- have had more than one actor/actress nominated for a lead Emmy over the years. It was pretty common in the 80s. I remember Sharon Gabet and Ann Flood from EON being nominated for lead actress one year. In 1983, Dorothy Lyman and Susan Lucci (AMC) and Erika Slezak and Robin Strasser (OLTL) were nominated. And notice, it didn't occur on ATWT until 2002 when both Byrne and Zenk were nominated. ATWT doesn't even have a Lead Actress nomination until '86 and Liz Hubbard, who'd just freakin' arrived. (Hell, GL didn't have one either until the year before for Zimmer). Setting aside the fact daytime emmys didn't even exist for the first seventeen years of ATWT's run, it's still ridiculous and convinces me either there was an ingrained bias against ATWT or bloc voting on other shows to get their nominees recognized.

I'm like 75 percent sure they did. I can't recall a specific scene though. I remember Steve running around being pissed they were seeing each other, and I have this odd memory of Craig and Iva like, walking through a field of wheat or something.

I think voters/judges 'slept on' ATWT in general a LOT. Maybe it's just my bias. But you also have to remember that the nomination and voting practices were different then as well. It would have been very unusual for a show to get two Lead emmy nods.

"Should've"? I dunno---other than the CBS' actresses, I didn't see the competition. I know she gave emmy worthy performances every year. And she didn't need a twin, an over-the-top death or jumpin' around in her skivvies to deliver.

Unfortunately, Hubbard was up against the juggernauts of Kim Zimmer and Erika Slezak. Unless they'd given Hubbard a slutty twin, she wasn't going to win. I do think Hubbard fought against making Lucinda appear vulnerable, and that's why blue ribbon panels want to see.

I'm by no means a soap historian, but the only example I know of is Mike Bauer going from GL to AW and back again. And Bell taking Sheila and Lauren over to B&B is the only modern era example I can think of that was an unqualified success. Not just some kind of extended stunt like the Linda Dano experience across the ABC shows.

Well, I can understand that a GL/Y&R crossover in the '90's would have been a logistical nightmare, with seemingly few benefits. They were owned by different parent companies, and (I presume) at a time when CBS had less say than Bell or P&G. It's Bell who really pioneered (or reinvigorated) "transplanting" characters from one show to another with Sheila on B&B. But I would have thought it would be more natural on the P&G shows (at least ATWT & GL which were both on CBS). If I'm not mistaken, there was a time they filmed in the same building. I'm don't think the initial Y&R/ATWT crossover with CJLB was "desperate". I think that was a unique circumstance with CJLB, who'd kind of floated doing a cameo for a while, IIRC. Something like that at least made a little sense, even if story-wise it didn't amount to diddly. I think CBS was constantly in the position of trying to play catch up with ABC. ABC was doing "fan appreciation" stunts and the huge AMC/OLTL baby swap arc around the time. The later one, introducing Alison back on Y&R as a bud of Amber's---yeah, yuck---but they were also kind of trying to push onto new platforms. Wasn't there some online produced content about how Ali met Amber or something? CBS just always seemed about three steps behind the times. I think attitudes have drastically changed, at least around shows produced by the same set of PTB. Maybe it's a byproduct of the multi-produced show era. L&O, NCIS, FlArrow----if you've got three or four hours of tv to fill a week, isn't it at least a little more efficient to use multiple characters on multiple shows?

But that was like in the '60's. The sly winks to other P&G towns (in the '80's and beyond) on bus schedules, etc., isn't exactly the same thing as living in the "same universe". At least in the current definition, where what's happening in Springfield affects life in Oakdale, or there are crossovers.

I don't think it makes her a homophobe if she thinks her 15yr old isn't ready for that kind of role. But I also don't think it was all about Jake and his schoolwork. And given the way P&G whored out Luke as their banner-waving gay....it was probably for the best Jake left and didn't have to deal with all the BS that came of the role. I mean, Van Hansis was 9 yrs older and at times seemed overwhelmed by the "everything else" that came with it.

There were multiple rumors. That either he or Kim didn't want him taking on a gay role. That it was developing into a bigger role than he initially committed to. That he needed to concentrate on school. That he was concentrating on his music. I think Zim repeatedly said it was his schooling. I gotta kinda wonder why she allowed him to audition for the role in the first place. She had to know being the son of the show's leading heroine (arguably) meant a significant amount of airtime. I also kind of think her contract was coming up, and she knew it wasn't going to be pretty. She might not have wanted him to be caught in the middle.

I think Superman needs to be more than some text message or a voiceless consoler on the other end of a conversation. The creators made it an issue when they brought James Olsen over from the Superman sphere, constantly talkin' about his BFF. Granted, they probably would have had to address the issue at some point, because it is Supergirl....but they pushed the issue appropriating some of the Superman universe.