vetsoapfan

I don't specifically recall him saying he took her favorite seat, LOL, but I do remember him spinning a tall tale about how she was so intent on making herself seen by the public. The Lemay quote which will always stand out for me comes from when he was new to daytime TV. A reporter asked him if he learned anything from the experienced writers of the genre. He snarked, "Only what NOT TO DO." UGH. What hubris.

I have already noted that in my previous post.

Thank you, my dear!😊 It's like the absurd anecdote in his book about having lunch in a restaurant with Virginia Dwyer, when she was unhappy about how much he misunderstood her character. According to Lemay, she was all about preening; sitting and conducting herself in a manner to maximize potential attention from onlookers. And Lemay's declaring that Jacquie Courtney sobbed through her scenes because she couldn't be bothered to learn her dialogue.🙄 I swear, his remarkable talents as a writer were far outstripped by his prowess as a mind reader, ROTF! To be serious, however, I think the quote about discarding a bunch of her clothes came from Virginia Dwyer, herself. After being fired, she gave an interview in Afternoon TV entitled, "I Told My Daughter, 'I Will Not Die for Them!'" The anecdote may have come from there (although I'm not sure).

You are on a roll these days, with many great posts!👏 I wish everyone here could have been around to watch a scene from the 1960s, in which a subdued Jim Matthews had to reveal to Mary Matthews that their daughter-in-law, Rachel, had not gotten pregnant by their son Russ. Steven Frame was the child's actual father. Mary, so often composed, warm and understanding, did NOT take the news well. She couldn't hold back her rage and just went berserk. She started shrieking, "I hate her! I...HATE... HER!" I actually froze and got goose-bumps, the scenes was so harrowing. To this day, I think it was Dwyer's finest moment. Like you, I greatly admired HL's initial work, but...

I think two of the Alice recasts were adequate (although they still didn't capture the essence of the role, IMHO), but the remaining two were simply dreadful. I'm glad, at least, that Courtney reclaimed the part in the end and became the "last Alice standing."

I think Rauch did well on AW in the beginning, when he and Lemay kept the core of the show (the way Phillips and Nixon had created and developed it) intact. Once he and Lemay started tampering with and dismantling the drama's roots, however, the bottom fell out. As you say, the last several years of PR's reign there were a mess. His stints on Texas and For Richer, For Poorer failed. IMHO, he was a disaster on OLTL (which he decimated) and TGL. His stints on Santa Barbara and Y&R were not terribly noteworthy, although not as harmful as his time on OLTL in particular. I do agree he would have been better than Charlotte Savitz to re-helm AW, however.😁 The endless miscasting of Alice Frame still baffles me. How some of those actresses were chosen will forever remain a mystery.🙄 I remember reading an irate letter from a fan in a soap mag that went, "I never appreciated Jacquie Courtney (I never voted for her in any fan-magazine polls) until I saw her replacement!" I think that most performers can be replaced effectively, but with some, TPTB shouldn't even try. After TGL's Charita Bauer passed away, a friend asked me if I could accept a Bert Bauer recast. UGH. Over my dead body. I never accepted any of the "fake" Alices, LOL.

The pre-Lemay ratings which even you just posted were as high, or higher, than the ratings seen under Lemay. So how does that equate to HL's claims of being responsible for noticeable increases "hold up"? The numbers achieved by Agnes Nixon grew higher than Lemay's, and even the ones seen under Cenedella were higher or comparable. Were Lemay's ratings impressive? Yes, but that's not the issue. The question was, did he make the ratings markedly improve, and were Cenedella's worse, as HL claimed. The evidence indicates no. For example, Cenedella may have garnered a rating of 9.6 (1969 and 1970) and 9.5 (1970 and 1971), whereas Lemay had 9.1 (1971 and 1972) and 9.7 (1972 and 1973), but in reality, 9.5 and 9.6 under one writer is not noticeably weaker than 9.1 and 9.7 under another. If in doubt, anybody can review the ratings here on SON, in many soap opera history books, or even on Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_daytime_soap_opera_ratings

I realized quite some time ago that my ancient Betamax and VHS tapes (going back to the 1970s) were starting to disintegrate (literally, shedding "dust"). Some had become unplayable. I was crushed. Fortunately, other tapes (usually the higher-quality ones like TDK, Maxell and Sony) were still in good shape. I wasted no time in converting everything over to DVD-R. I am grateful that all the videos I wanted to preserve the most were salvageable. I had audiotapes going back to the 1960s, some of which I had transferred as well. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to a cassette-tape player. But my trusty VHS survives! True, memoirs are always colored by, influenced by, the subjective feelings and interpretations of the author. Lemay certainly had every right to express his own opinions, whether the public found his analyses believable or accurate. And in the end, he was an excellent writer who provided the daytime audience with stellar material for years. That's all we could ask for; all we have the right to expect.

That's an important point. Even if fellow commentators wish to influence what other posters discuss on message boards (out of boredom, frustration, disinterest, whatever) it's unlikely to happen. Subjects which one person would prefer to see set aside, another person is curious about and wants to see explored more. Personally, I am totally surfeited with the social media attention paid to a certain tangerine-tinted individual who is constantly discussed EVERYWHERE, ALL THE TIME, but obviously other people are still interested in hearing about, reading about, and talking about the individual in question. If it bothers me, it's my own obligation to avoid engaging in discussions about those whom I no longer wish to discuss. On the internet, scrolling down is pretty easy. Today on Facebook, a group moderator posted a photograph of an actor whom she found attractive. While a surprising number of members were oohing and ahhing, one man announced that he did not want to see posts like this again, because lust was a sin, and all the posters drooling over the photo needed to REPENT and read the good book. 🙄 To that I would ask, why did he even click on the link??? I agree. I've always found it interesting that so many soap fans investigate their shows' histories, and become engrossed by past material they never even watched first-hand. AW's brilliant past held a cornucopia of fascinating characters and storylines which could have been mined for present-day drama, if only TPTB cared to do so. Considering all the dialogue soap actors have to memorize daily, I'm astonished when certain actors can handle it flawlessly, and I'm sympathetic towards people like Hugh Marlowe, who obviously struggled a lot. I watched the show daily during Lemay's run (while I criticize him for certain things, I have always acknowledged the excellent work he did from 1971-1975), and people like Jacqueline Courtney and Virginia Dwyer were much more adept at dealing with their lines than other actors like Marlowe. Right. Sometimes even the actors, writers and producers involved get confused about past facts. Agnes Nixon's autobiography included some obvious blunders about her time on OLTL. Harding Lemay has said that AW's ratings before he arrived were not satisfactory, and that he made them jump, but the facts don't bear out that contention. Before Lemay took over, Robert Cenedella had been the head scribe for a few years. While I would never claim that Cenedella was a writer of Agnes Nixon's or Harding Lemay's skill, he was at least adequate. Contrary to Lemay's assertion about his own tenure, he did not make the ratings increase to any significant degree (although granted, the writing was much better). In the 1968-69 season, AW had an average rating of 10.5. In 1969-70, the rating was 9.6. In 1970-71, 9.5. Lemay was hired in 1971. In 1971-72, AW's rating was 9.1. In the 1972-73 and 1973-74 seasons: 9.7. By 1979, the show had dipped to a 7.5. (All ratings taken from The Soap Opera Encyclopedia by Christopher Schemering. The yearly ratings can also be checked here on SON, in the Ratings Archives.) The cast massacre of 1975 and the declining quality of Lemay's work in the mid-1970s, IMHO, contributed to the slow sinking in the ratings. It was a shame to witness AW's decline, after it had been a daytime jewel for so long.

I had no idea this thread even existed. Thanks for the heads up!👏 I never wanted Uncle Dru to be written out in the first place. As a character who had been featured on The Brighter Day, As the World Turns, and then Another World, he was like a lynchpin of the Irna-verse. Plus, I have always found warm and wise patriarchal and matriarchal figures on soaps to be comforting. If the show could have ever gotten good writers who were knowledgeable about and invested in the show's rich past, I would have asked Jacqueline Courtney to return again and USE HER EFFECTIVELY this time. I probably would have brought Ricky Matthews and Wally Curtin back to Bay City too. To newer viewers, Wally would have been like any other new character they were asked to invest in, but his addition to the canvas would be a nice nod to history for veteran viewers. I realize TPTB would veto a sudden influx of much-older characters, but it would have been wonderful to see Beverly Penberthy and Sam Groom put back on contract as Pat Randolph and Russ Matthews.

Seeing egregious mistakes in and distortions of history can make me laugh AND cringe in agony, if that makes sense. The slight "bone of contention" I had with Liz's fall on the stairs, was that I really didn't see how she could have had the life-threatening (and ultimately life-ending) injuries from the accident. But on television, we often have to suspend disbelief and "go with the flow," so to speak. That's what I strive to do, the majority of the time on social media. I must admit, however, that if people are being willfully and relentlessly antagonistic for extended periods, I will not hesitate to..."toy" with them for my own amusement.🫢

Yep, me too. I've always said that it's better to actually BE alone, than to continue putting up with people who make you WISH you were.😁

ARGH! I reeeeeally want to see those scenes now. Thanks for the screenshots, @Liberty City. I never thought I'd see Marlena and Maggie share a scene again. Strangely, even after not being a regular soap viewer for a few decades, I am still interested in "my" characters. Once a soap addict, always a soap addict!

@Liberty City, thanks for sharing the latest photos. I can accept differences in paint color and living room furniture, but the shifting position of the front door in the foyer annoys me, LOL. BTW, I was not able to see any of the recent flashback episodes with Tom and Alice. Did DAYS feature any "real" Horton-family scenes from years gone by, or did we only get recreated flashbacks with the young actors? And I haven't seen any interaction between Maggie and Marlena in so many years. I wish I could find their recent scene(s) together on-line somewhere. What was the context; what did they talk about?

What I meant was, that I tried twice to put my participation in the discussion to rest by posting, "...it's true: you have every right to disagree. There is not, nor should there be, forced conformity of opinion." And then later, "Sometimes the wires of communication get tangled. it happens." Both comments were designed to let the issue drop, since agreeing to disagree and then moving on works best when different people have opposing, firmly-held viewpoints. Perfectly said, from top to bottom. 👏 I daresay that certain debates will rage on forever among internet commentators: https://neal.fun/lets-settle-this/ For soap fans, in particular, viewers have been rehashing and debating Maureen Bauer's death on TGL for decades. Ditto: "Who was the better Rachel on AW: Strasser or Wyndham?" And, "Do sci-fi and camp elements belong on daytime TV?" Not to mention, "Should ailing, long-suffering soaps just be cancelled and put out of their misery?" The list (and the debates!) go on. You are 100% right when you point out that not every subject will be of interest to every person. But that's just the way message boards work.🤷‍♂️

Saying that Lemay pushed hard for Dwyer's dismissal cannot be taken to mean that Paul Rauch did not agree. Obviously the move was okayed by TPTB. That being said, I had no interest in getting into another extended discussion about it, which is why I cut it short.

Sometimes the wires of communication get tangled. it happens.🤷‍♂️

You are basing your reply on an erroneous misinterpretation of what I actually said. I neither wrote nor implied that Lemay "undermined" Rauch. Where you got that idea, I have no idea. I'd counter that his snide and untruthful commentary about certain people would contradict that statement, but... ...it's true: you have every right to disagree. There is not, nor should there be, forced conformity of opinion.

Haven't you read Lemay's book more than once? 🤣

Lemay has been repeatedly quoted as acknowledging his insistence that Dwyer be fired. Raunch could have fought against it, perhaps, but he did not, and both men have revealed their arrogance and control issues over the years.

You'll notice that Marlowe has never been quoted as saying he had trouble with Dwyer; it was all Lemay. And yes, the scribe would vehemently condemn some actors (like Dwyer) for the EXACT SAME on-set behavior that he praised his pets for.

That story came from Harding Lemay, who loathed Virginia Dwyer for reasons of his own. He claimed that it was Dwyer who made Marlowe stumble over his lines all the time. I call BS. Poor Marlowe forgot and got tangled in his dialogue a lot, with many different scene partners, and the problem only got worse after Dwyer was long gone. I'd say Lemay was smearing Dwyer to justify his very unpopular demand that she be fired.

There's a major difference between getting injured by falling as you are running up the stairs and "falling up the stairs," which is how various condescending critics and clueless soap "historians" have described the scene. Just trying to make fun of the soaps, as usual, I guess. But viewers who actually watched know good the show was back then. I had to give up on the Soaps & Serials books pretty quickly, because their glaring errors and "creative reinterpretation of history" drove me crazy. The only soap novelizations which I've read, and which were reasonably accurate, were Another World I and Another World II, by Kate Lowe Kerrigan.

Ellen never let up on Susan, either. Scenes like this add realism and relatability to the characters. Let's face it, some of us can hold grudges for life.😝 I'd pay to see that!

The death-by-falling-up-the-stairs myth is firmly ingrained in soap opera lore, but never actually happened. Liz Stewart on ATWT was seriously injured when she fell while running up the stairs. Critics have spun this as she "fell up the staircase," which of course is absurd and never happened. Folks just took pleasure in mocking the soaps. I always found it amusing how long and hard Ellen would and could hold onto a grudge, LOL.