Broderick

On Y&R, Eileen Davidson's "assertive ingenue" Ashley Abbott debuted in 1982, just when Jaime Lyn Bauer made it clear she planned to vacate the Lorie Brooks role. 

Within a couple of years, Ashley had snagged Lorie's "bio dad drama", subbing John Abbott for Stuart Brooks, and she also became Victor's "muse" to foil Nikki.   

22 hours ago, Pine Charles said:

 

Is “RATS” (I think that’s what it was called) the same as USENET??

 

 

USENET stood for "user network", and it was the first type of message board that most of us were exposed to, back in the 1980s and early 1990s.   For most of us young people, we had to know someone with a modem who could access the Usenet newsgroups for us, since few "civilian kids" had a PC at home with a modem.   It was helpful to know a computer teacher, an engineer, a librarian, or a researcher.   The Usenet boards were divided into categories, and soaps were found under Recreation, then under Arts within the recreation category, then under Television within the arts category, then under Soaps within the television category.  Hence, r.a.t.s., or RATS.   Accessing the newsgroups became easier in the mid 1990s with the advent of the RemarQ Supernews, but by then independent message boards were popping up all over the place.  

Snapper and Casey always had such good chemistry, despite having to deliver absurd lines to each about "picking up vibes", having something "heavy going down", and wondering where someone's "head is at"  lol.  

57 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

 

And back to EON, I always thought Monticello was in Ohio!

I don't think they ever specifically said it was in Ohio, but that was always kinda the implication, that it was a fictional version of Cincinnati.  They were always going "upstate" as though to Columbus or Cleveland, and there was that big old picture of Cincinnati in the opening credits for years.   Wasn't there even a bar near the courthouse called the "Ho-Hi-Ho"?  

37 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@Broderick @yrfan1983 @titan1978 Had Bill Bell kept Amy, we might not have gotten Dru and Olivia.

That's true, and we'd have missed out on a LOT.  

But I've always suspected that Bell's original plan was to bring back Stephanie Williams, in a recurring capacity, as the "upper middle class" girlfriend of Nathan, and then a few months later introduce Drucilla as the illiterate shoplifter who would become dependent on Nathan.  At that point, he would've had all his players in place, and he would've signed Stephanie Williams and Victoria Rowell to contracts.    There would've still been a Dru, but not an Olivia.  We'll never know for sure, though, since "General Hospital" signed Stephanie Williams to a contract, forcing Bell to re-work the entire trajectory of what he'd planned for Nathan.    

17 minutes ago, yrfan1983 said:

Amen! I am personally not a Lynn fan and would have been perfectly happy for Amy to remain Paul's secretary for another 20 years (while teaching aerobics on the side, of course)

Yeah, Lynne Bassett-Hound was utterly wretched and only had a job because her father was on the writing staff.   Once Jerry Birn was off the writing staff, his dull daughter was booted out the door instantly. 

Stephanie Williams had such good chemistry with both Doug Davidson and Steven Ford, and her character should have evolved into Paul's partner at Williams & Richards, once Steven Ford was gone.  

She was good with the aerobics classes, a great dancer, had good friendship chemistry with Traci, good rival chemistry with Lauren, and worked well with whomever she was paired with romantically.

It's just hard to believe that Bell couldn't find a way to continue using her.  

On 9/24/2020 at 11:08 AM, BoldRestless said:

8/22/86 - It's Ok To Say No Concert

Re-watching the "It's Ok to Say No Concert" reminded me what a mistake it was for Bill Bell to let Stephanie E. Williams get away.   That girl, in addition to being beautiful, was talented on so many different levels.  

4 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

Beth said that it was her choice to leave in ‘87. Every time Traci left after that, though, Beth said she was fired.

Makes sense.  I just remember it seemed kinda "rushed".   I was changing schools at the time and gave it lots of thought.  Traci, on the other hand was like, "Hmmm, I think I'll go to Stanford and finish my degree.  Oh, and by the way, I'm leaving today.  Good-bye!"  lol.  

2 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

Both wiki and imdb say that Alex Rebar played Vince during '79-80 and '86-87

Yeah, Rose & Vince were like those Thenardiers in Les Miserables.    Whenever we thought we were rid of them, they popped up yet again.   They were funny.  

On 9/18/2020 at 5:41 PM, kalbir said:

There was also what seems to be a slight cast purge during the second half of 1986 to through 1987, with the departures of Marla Adams, Colleen Casey, Alex Donnelly, Steven Ford, Lauren Koslow, Julianna McCarthy, Phil Morris, Robert Parucha, Jon St. Elwood, James Storm, Stephanie Williams. I wonder how much of it was Bill Bell running out of story for the characters and how much of it was Ed Scott doing some house cleaning.

Didn't Beth Maitland also get "purged" (temporarily) during all of that?   Seems like Traci announced rather suddenly that she was going to Stanford to finish her degree, packed her bags, and swooshed out of town rather suddenly.  Also seems like Beth Maitland was removed from the cast list.  Brad walked around grouchy about it for several weeks, became closer with Lauren, then Neil Fenmore died, Brad started working with Lauren on the Fenmore Foundation, and after a few months, Traci came swooping back in.  I never knew if the intention had always been to bring Traci back later in the year, or if Bill Bell just kinda changed his mind about getting rid of her in the first place.  

9 minutes ago, will81 said:

I also love how Brenda is dressed, seeing as she was furious in the beginning that they dressed her in such a dowdy way, on the E! True Hollwyood Story when she said "they taped my bosom down" I can just imagine after that she decided

 

If I can't show my figure on the show, I will do it every other chance I get

A couple of Miss Dickson's favorite attributes are DEFINITELY about to escape in that pic!  

1 hour ago, will81 said:

Haha just glad you got something out of it

 

I actually only meant to jot down that one point about John Considine, but then I couldn't stop myself

 

Also when John Conboy left around Feb 1982, directors Bill Glenn and Dick Dunlop left too. Was really the end of an era. They were replaced by Frank Pacelli / Rudy Vejar and Dennis Steinmetz

I was thinking (director) Herbert Kenwith stuck around longer than he did.  He directed the first episode of Y&R, and I was thinking he stayed several years.  But according to his bio, he moved on to Norman Lear comedies.  

Y&R has been lucky to have several good directors, including all those you've listed here -- Bill Glenn, Richard Dunlop, Frank Pacelli, and Rudy Vejar, as well as Kathryn Foster in the 1990s and 2000s.  

6 hours ago, BoldRestless said:

 

I am so bad. Out of all the wonderful and helpful info you posted, that's what caught my eye! 

Yeah, they were all jumping the bones of their make-up men in the early 1980s.  Melody Thomas had a baby with Carlos Yeaggy, who was one of the make-up men.  That's what inspired the whole Victoria storyline.  

Then she decided she'd rather marry an executive producer instead lol.  

56 minutes ago, will81 said:

 

Jeanne was well known in the 1950's and I think early 60's in terms of television. Not sure what her profile was like by 1973. So no idea if the general press would bother to announce her arrival. I have some 1973/74 daytime tv issues coming so I will see if there is anything in those as well

By 1973, she was mostly just a washed-up, middle-aged TV actress who was drawing unemployment and raising her three kids.  I believe her last notable TV appearance had been in "Bracken's World" circa 1969-1970, and her movie career was pretty much finished for good.  

15 hours ago, will81 said:

This is the only mention of Jeanne Cooper joining Y&R that I could find. This comes from the Feb 21, 1974 issue of Daily Variety. This seems to add to the idea that her start date was Jan 28, 1974. I am still not willing to say 100% confirmation, but the evidence is mounting, haha

 

If I remember right, the Chancellors were discussed in the dialogue for several days (or weeks) before the viewers ever encountered them.  A slow-build to their debut, I believe you'd call it.  

There was discussion in the dialogue that on Foothill Road, there was a big house that overlooked the city.  The house, of course, belonged to Mr. & Mrs. Chancellor.  

It was also established that the Chancellors owned several factories and manufacturing plants around town, including the one where Liz worked.  

The Chancellor anecdotes seemed to be providing some "local flavor" to help flesh-out the physical appearance of Genoa City.  

I'd say it's certainly possible that we first saw Kay Chancellor for one or two appearances in late 1973, before Phillip and Kay made their big splash in January of 1974.  

That was just kinda the way Bill Bell wrote.  Slowly, and thoughtfully. 

The cast listing wouldn't provide any clue of when  Jeanne Cooper first became a contract player, because the cast only scrolled "in order of appearance", for any specific day.  

Jeanne could've well started appearing in late 1973, and the press assumed that she was recurring instead of contract, as her storyline didn't really kick-off till January 28, 1974.  

36 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

 

Who was that actor again? I remember watching that and found his heavy (possibly German?) accent strange to listen for John Abbott. The funny thing is nowhere as far as I know is that actor credited for playing John!

His name was "Sean Garrison"; he was an actor from western shows in the 1960s.  

9 hours ago, will81 said:

I know this has been buried, but I find this very interesting and odd

 

Rose and Vince turn up (again) in October 1979 and this is Nikki's entire story until May 1980. Then the cult story kicks off in Jun 80 for the summer.

 

No one knew the trouble Nikki had gotten into until that summer when Greg was being stalked by an assasain who shot Liz which happened in July, around the time Deb Adair took over as Jill. At this point Jill was at Jabot, Jack had just turned up and the triangle with John was haphazzardly bumbling along.

 

ETA: Greg found out in May which pushed Nikki towards the cult, but no one else knew until July.

 

Casey had her hands full with Lucas and Jonas, as Leslie had just returned to GC an amnesiac and Jaime Lyn was on her way out on maternity leave.

 

Maybe Joseph Thomas and that story was an idea that Bell or someone mentioned at some point and some fan or soap journalist picked up on it as real. Based on the above I can't imagine it fitting in anywhere on the show. Though Bell was throwing everything but the kitchen sink at the audience around that time.

We all remember things differently, of course.  For instance, I vividly remember the episode in 1980 where Bond Gideon's Jill puts the multiple layers of lipstick on the customer at Jabot, and John Abbott fusses at her, and then later tells her the idea has merit.  BUT I could've sworn Brett Halsey played John Abbott in that episode.  When it surfaced online earlier this year, John Abbott was played by some complete stranger that I never remember seeing in my life.  I remembered the episode itself, but just not the actor.  Our memories are fuzzy that way sometimes.  

Whoever came up with the "Joseph Thomas was a doppelganger to scare Nikki" is just remembering it wrong.  That never happened.  Jill only strayed into the Greg/Nikki storyline for like ONE DAY, and that was when Liz was shot and was hospitalized.  Jack Abbott took Jill to the hospital, so Jill could make sure her mother was going to be ok.  And then Jill was like, "Ok, looks like Ma is going to make it!  Thanks for the ride, Jack!", and she went directly back into her new Jabot storyline.  She didn't plot any "revenge scheme" against Nikki, and Quinn Redeker didn't appear.    

21 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

 

In this Beth Maitland podcast from 2013, https://youtu.be/eeQhFmyyZ9g she doesn't have such positive things to say about BD. Beth was unhappy that BD coincidentally (?) released her memoir right around the time of JC's death.

 

BD said some negative things (don't know what) in the book about JC. Beth thought it was a poor move for BD to basically wait until JC has passed before talking crap about JC.

 

Beth also commented that she didn't work much in scenes with BD, only occasionally, but Beth said she did observe some "shenanigans" on BD's part.

 

I never bought Miss Dickson's book, but I've flipped through it and read the part about Jeanne Cooper, whom Miss Dickson refers to as "Jean".   (The book is FULL of misspellings, errors, and apparent fantasies of Miss Dickson, as you might expect.  There are probably kernels of truth here & there, but also embellishments and elaborations.)   

Brenda Dickson basically says that Jeanne Cooper was a raging alcoholic (which is pretty much public knowledge to most fans of the show, I guess, as Jeanne Cooper openly discussed her alcoholism).  Miss Dickson, in her quest to defame Bill Bell and Y&R, claims that Bill Bell "enabled" Jeanne Cooper to be an alcoholic.  She implies that Bell and Conboy specifically hired an alcoholic actress (Cooper) to fill the role of an alcoholic character (Kay Chancellor) and sort of enabled/encouraged Jeanne Cooper to remain an alcoholic as long as the storyline called for Kay Chancellor to have bouts of sobriety and drunkenness.  THEN, when it was time for Kay Chancellor to become "permanently sober", the Evil Bill Bell told Jeanne Cooper, "Sober up, you old crone, or I'll kick you out the door."    None of this was really a "slam" of Jeanne Cooper, but Brenda Dickson, in her crazy book, just "uses" Jeanne Cooper to make Bill Bell sound more horrible and mean than he probably really was.   She implies that Bell manipulated and abused Jeanne Cooper's alcoholism, and that Jeanne Cooper was too drunk, stupid and naïve to realize she was being manipulated.    Only the Wise Brenda Dickson could see all of this unfolding.  

That's what Beth Maitland was reacting to when she said that it was low and thoughtless of Brenda to discuss two dead people (Bell and Cooper) who weren't around to defend themselves.  If Bell were still alive today, he'd obviously say that he never condoned or encouraged Cooper's drinking, and if Jeanne Cooper were still alive today, she'd obviously say that Bill Bell wasn't the reason she drank.   

3 hours ago, will81 said:

I think it was a mix. There seems to be cast members who are still friendly or have defended Brenda and others who loathe her. Ed has always seemed a little bit dodgy to me for some reason. If you have encountered Brenda online at all, she can be really nice one minute and then turn on you out of nowhere, not mean, just suddenly unreasonable.

 

My belief is that Brenda has always had emotional issues, but mostly kept them in check. I think Ed Scott probably very gladly and knowingly pushed her over the edge. I do feel Brenda does have mental health issues that no one around has ever taken seriously. A few cast members have been asked about her and simply won't say anything, and I wonder if that's why. As I said there is a kernal of truth to Brenda's stories.

 

Also If you watch Sep 1986 - Jun 1987 it is a mixed bag. Some episodes it is like 1984 Brenda, a little camp but mostly subtle and present, then other episodes she is like a parody of a soap actor, literally she would be right at home in the movie Soapdish. 

Yes, one of the soap mags made a comment circa 1986 that "if you'd like to watch a parody of Brenda Dickson, just tune into Y&R weekdays on CBS to see Brenda Dickson doing a parody of Brenda Dickson!"  lol.   I think there's a lot of truth in that statement.  

She definitely appeared to have some (untreated) problems with emotional stability, and I'm sure there were those on the set who exploited that particular vulnerability of hers, for their own benefit.  

We'll never know for certain how much of her "illness" and "persecution" were real, and how much were merely figments of her imagination, because her concept of "truth" is so murky and vague.  (That's based on having read passages from her book, where she can't even accurately relay her own AGE to the reader without embellishing the facts and masking the issue in confusion.)

But I agree with Will81, when she turns to the camera at the wrong times, or when she does it for extended periods of time, it completely removes the Jill character from the scene.  At home, we're treated basically to a tableau of Brenda Dickson posing, pouting, smirking, mugging and vogueing at the camera, while her co-star ineffectively attempts to deliver a soliloquy to the back of her head.   There she is, in her plumed hat with sequined feathers, her spangled shoulder pads, her dramatic veil, with her back turned entirely to her co-star.  While those of us at home are getting the benefit of watching her roll her eyes, smirk, wiggle and pout,  her co-star may as well be performing opposite a corpse.  

There's nothing wrong with a little camp -- and heaven knows, she was plenty campy --- but it was just TOO much!    It was difficult to understand why the other characters were wasting their time on Jill.  If I were Phillip Chancellor III and my mother acted that way, I'd have just stayed at Kay Chancellor's house with no qualms about it.  If I were Michael Crawford, I wouldn't have asked for the first date, let alone the second.  If I were Brad Carlton, I wouldn't have wanted to associate myself with her men's line project.  If I were David Kimball, I would've asked to be transferred to a different department.   She just went so far with it at the end that it ruined any sense of reality associated with it.  If a character has no redeeming qualities at all and can't even manage to LOOK sympathetic for a second or two, then there's pretty much no reason for the character to exist, as all the human conflict is erased.   

7 hours ago, will81 said:

Agreed. Yeah she lost any subtlety and depth at a certain point, the more power Bill Bell gave Jill, the more absurd Brenda became

 

BUT - It also depended which actor she is in a scene with. For some reason when she is with Eileen she is almost always good. Not sure why. I can rarely find a scene between those two that is awful. Brenda always seemed to try harder with her. With others, by 1987, she would barely make eye contact with them. I hated that thing she did near the end where she would just look off camera while her scene partner was talking

Peter Bergman has said in an interview that Eileen Davidson comes into her scenes "fully prepared".  She knows exactly "when she's planning to raise her voice, when she's planning to cut you off, when she's planning to interrupt you, when she's planning to sigh at you with exasperation.  And that enables her to get under your skin more than anyone else you're working with".  (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.)  And I believe that preparation -- and unpredictability -- is exactly what dragged Brenda Dickson back into her scenes with Eileen.  (Plus Brenda Dickson was probably afraid that if she turned her back to Eileen and stared into the camera pouting, posing, and smirking, Eileen would stand behind her and mock her, making the Jill character look especially foolish and inconsequential.)  

17 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

I do confess I would have loved to see more of Brenda's Jill with Nina. She was dismissive, but there were instances she knew when Nina was scheming.  

Brenda's habit of staring off-camera was very effective in small doses, especially with Tricia Cast's Nina.  I understand what Brenda Dickson was attempting to accomplish in the scenes.  "I'm so superior to you, I'm not going to look at you.  I'm going to pretend you're not even in my orbit.  I'm going to retreat into a world where you don't exist."  And yes, I do think it was an effective approach for an experienced gold-digger like Jill to utilize with a novice gold-digger like Nina.   But once Brenda Dickson began using that tactic uniformly with Nina, John Abbott, Kay Chancellor, Jack Abbott, Traci Abbott,  Mamie Johnson, and even her own SON Phillip, it just became over-the-top and absurd, like an unprepared diva who doesn't know her lines and is reading the cue cards

5 hours ago, Aback said:

That’s what Victor has been doing forever though. 

It's never been a becoming characteristic in Eric Braeden either, when it's overused.  It might work while Victor is talking to Jack Abbott, but it looks silly & stupid when he's talking with Nicholas and Victoria.    

3 hours ago, will81 said:

Yeah Brenda is sometimes good and sometimes cringey from 1985 onwards. 

Yes, and sometimes it's difficult to tell when she's "good" and when she's "cringey".  Because it's all kind of the same.  

The problem seems to be that she basically just stripped away all of the character's vulnerability and innocence.  

She replaced those characteristics with the swiveling hips, the jutting breasts, the rolling eyes, the sighs, the pouts, the hats, and the overblown costumes. 

Sometimes it works in one scene, and in the next scene, it just looks utterly absurd.  

A lot of us on the old Mediadomain board were complaining during the George Kaplan mess about the rewrite of Brad's history.  There's a scene from about 1985 where he meets with his mother in a diner --- is that what's included in the clip referenced above? -- and he gives her an envelope of money that he'd saved working for the Abbotts.  She mentions that she has several other children, and she wants them all to earn an honest living.   Then, when Brad and Traci become engaged, Brad takes his mother's invitation out of the "to be mailed" stack and hides it in his desk drawer at Jabot.  Lauren Fenmore finds it, and becomes curious why he doesn't want his mother to attend the wedding.    It's a whole little minor storyline that was completely tossed out completely for all that reliquary mess.        

In the weeks leading up to it, the duel storyline was presented as being a "very dramatic and serious stand-off", at least from the point of view of Victor and Douglas, who proposed the dueling pistols.  But on the day of the duel, it was played more as "dark comedy", which was fitting considering the circumstances.   lol   

1 minute ago, trainman said:

 

I remember Douglas courting Kay, but nothing before that, so this is fun for me to read.  I recall the pistol duel between Douglas and Derek on the Chancellor Estate grounds (filmed outdoors, not on set).  I think Victor and Kay were there as witnesses.  I don't recall the outcome, but obviously both survived.

Douglas shot him in the butt.  I believe the "witnesses" were Victor & Brock. 

Victor was serving as Douglas Austin's "second", and Brock was reluctantly serving as Derek's "second".  

Seems that Derek kept stepping in gopher holes as they walked out to the dueling ground.   Kay Chancellor was at home, waiting for the outcome.  She heard the shot, and then Derek came in with a butt wound.  

21 hours ago, ltm1997 said:

 

 i’m pretty sure he had to be rushed to the hospital and then Vanessa and Lorie blames each other. i sure hope someday we get to see it!

 

 

I don't remember a trip to the hospital for Lance after the shooting.  I was thinking Lorie Brooks just called her brother-in-law, Snapper, who came out to the lake house and treated Lance at the scene.   Then Snapper told Lorie and Vanessa, "I'm not sure what happened here, but you'd better look into filing a police report", which they opted not to do.  That's the way I remember it.    

54 minutes ago, Legacy said:

Does anyone know when Douglas came on and left? Was he one of those long time characters that just took a call and to never be seen again.

I remember when he came on.  It was in very late 1979 or very early 1980.  He was a professional thief.  Derek Thurston hired him to break into a safe, remove an audio tape, and substitute a new tape in its place.  

(The story was that Brock had recorded a private conversation between Derek and Jill, during which they professed their love for each other and talked about what a gruesome old bat Derek's wife, Kay Chancellor, was.  Brock gave his mother the tape and said,  "If you want to know how your husband really feels about you, here's a tape of him and Jill discussing you."  Kay didn't want to hear it and put in her safe.  Later she decided to listen to it.  Derek hired Douglas Austin to swap out the tape with a better version where Derek was babbling about what a wonderful wife Kay Chancellor was.)  Shortly after the show expanded to an hour, Douglas's role increased.   He stole $50,000 of "ransom money" that Kay Chancellor delivered to Suzanne Lynch to free Derek from a hoax kidnapping.  Then Douglas started courting Kay.