Broderick

3 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

That seems to be the case, but surely Snapper would have to comment to Chris that 'something really heavy is going down with my sister Jill right now'

LOL!!!   "I've got something really HEAVY to lay on you, Chris.  But you seem so OUT OF IT right now." 

12 minutes ago, Legacy said:

that rose deville women she seemed to have stories with alot of characters, she must have been pretty popular to always have been brought back i never knew she interacted with chris, snapper and brock .

I only knew of her stories with nikki when she was with greg and then later on nina a chris thats crazy how all these characters nevee came together and talked about there horror story with rose

Yeah, the first time I remember seeing Rose DeVille was in the summer of 1979(?) when she was operating her little antique shop, "Second-Hand Rose's Antiques and Pretty Things", which was really a front for a slavery ring.   She was driven out of business by Snapper and Brock after she attempted to abduct Chris and that girl Sharon.   Rose disappeared for a few months, then quietly reappeared with a little modeling agency called "La Plus Belle Rose", which is French for "the most beautiful Rose".  That one turned out to be a prostitution ring.    The stupid Nikki Reed stumbled right into that, of course.  Rose DeVille gave Nikki a contract, then advanced her some cash, and when Greg Foster told Nikki to void the contract, Nikki had already spent the cash advance, was too stupid and embarrassed to admit it to Greg, and ended up modeling lingerie and then going to meet a client named Walter Addison who was really expecting more than modeling.   Walter Addison had a heart attack and croaked while chasing Nikki around a hotel room, which inspired Nikki, Rose and Vince to dump Mr. Addison's corpse in an alley.   A little boy named Tony Baker came wandering along, stole a watch off Mr. Addison's corpse, and was arrested for murdering Mr. Addison.   Naturally, Greg Foster was assigned by the courts as public defender for Tony Baker, which led to Nikki's whole role in the ordeal being exposed.   Rose then disappeared for several years, till about 1986, then quietly reappeared running a home for unwed mothers, which was really a black-market baby ring.   Nina Webster (and an annoying little twit named Mollie) were residents of Rose's home for unwed mothers.    

6 minutes ago, Legacy said:

 never got to see much of lynne topping as chris maybe like 1 episode can anyone tell me how she was? And also the girl who played peggy for abit in 1979 i would love to see how she played peggy

I guess the best way to describe Lynne Topping's version of Chris would be to compare her with Brenda Epperson's version of Ashley Abbott, if you know what I mean.  Lynne Topping was PRETTY, and she seemed SWEET, and she wasn't a bad actress AT ALL, but she just wasn't ever Chris to me.   I think most of us who saw the original actors in the roles of Chris and Leslie just never warmed-up very much to Lynne Topping and Victoria Mallory.  There wasn't anything "wrong" with either girl; but they just didn't have the vulnerability and fundamental likability of Trish Stewart and Janice Lynde.  

Bill Bell tried his best with Lynne Topping.   He kinda carefully constructed a friendship (and flirting relationship) between Snapper Foster and Casey Reed while Chris was gone, so that when Lynne Topping stepped into the role, she could be the "victim", which would earn her the audience's immediate sympathy.   Naturally, Snapper chose Chris over Casey, and we were all supposed to breathe a big sigh of relief that True Love Has Triumphed, and Snapper has chosen Chris!!!  I didn't feel that way at all;  I kinda wanted to see Snapper throw Casey Reed down on the floor and pork her brains out.  lol.

Bell's next attempt at making us like the New Chris was to put her in physical jeopardy.   This weird woman named Rose DeVille popped up in town running a shop called "Second Hand Rose's Antiques & Pretty Things", which was really a white slavery ring.   Rose and her henchman Vince were intending to round-up some "pretty things" and ship them off to South America as sex slaves.   This dimwitted random teenager named Sharon stepped right into the trap, like a rat heading for the cheese in a  mousetrap.   Chris had sorta befriended Sharon, followed her to Rose's shop, and was also captured by the evil Rose and the evil Vince.   Snapper and Brock showed-up at the last second and saved the two girls.   We were supposed to breathe a big sigh of relief and say, "Oh thank God!!   Chris is safe!!"  Instead, with Lynne Topping in the role, I was kinda hoping she'd get shipped-off to South America so that Snapper could bang Casey Reed without having to feel guilty about it. 

(There wasn't much to like or dislike about that replacement Peggy.   I wasn't ever a huge fan of the FIRST Peggy, but the second one was just a window decoration, pretty much.   By the time the character became relevant again, during the cult storyline in 1980, the real Peggy --- Pam Peters -- was back.)         

I don't remember Chris ever commenting on (or being involved with) the business between Jill Foster and Kay Chancellor.   Snapper and Greg were involved in it, of course, but I don't recall Chris ever being dragged into it. 

When that wedding clip (Chris and Snapper) first started circulating on the web, it caused a lively debate on another message board.   In the clip, the minister can clearly be heard referring to Chris as "Kristen".   ("Do you, Kristen, take this man William to be your lawfully wedded husband ... ")    Several viewers insisted that was a mistake in the script, that the character's name was "Christobel", not "Kristen".    Several other viewers insisted Chris's name was "Kristen", because that was clearly what the minister had called her.  (I stayed out of the discussion entirely.)  Do any of y'all remember what her name was?  I can just about swear that when Trish Stewart left the show and was replaced a few months later by Lynne Topping, the character's name began appearing in the closing credits as "Christobel Brooks Foster", although no one ever called her anything except "Chris".   (Just as Lorie's name was listed in the closing credits for years as "Lauralee Brooks Prentiss", although no one ever called her anything but Lorie, except for Vanessa Prentiss when she was being all Eddie Haskell-ish, and she would start a conversation by hissing, "I have something to discuss with you, Lauralee ...."     

15 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

It was a great episode!  I always figured the Brooks and Fosters had some interaction with Chris and Snapper being married, but it was just great to see Jill with the 4 Brooks sisters all being like family.....I guess things fell apart when she married Stuart.

Yeah, the girls didn't actively HATE Jill until she tricked their dad into marriage (by pretending she was pregnant), when he was supposed to be marrying Liz.  That's when the girls (justifiably) turned against her.   They could see a pattern developing whereby she seduced men 20+ years older than she was, then married them, had a baby, then fought for a settlement.  She'd already done that with Phillip Chancellor, and now her next victim appeared to be their own father.   (Victim #3, of course, would be John Abbott a few years later, lol.)  The girls had a big "family meeting" --- seems like Lorie was the instigator of the convention --- to discuss how to get rid of her.    The other girls dragged Peggy back from San Fransisco (or wherever she was) to make her participate.   Seems like that's when the brief Peggy Recast (Patricia Everly?) joined the show. 

25 minutes ago, Legacy said:

Also i think it would have been wonderful if they had put jill in other orbits other then chancellor and fosters, she could have had a stronger rivalry with lorie or leslie through the prentiss orbit.

I can only remember one ocassion when Jill interacted with a Prentiss.   Around 1979, Leslie Brooks disappeared off the face of the earth for a while.  (She was with Jonas at his nightclub.)  Lance Prentiss was concerned that perhaps Leslie had another nervous breakdown or whatever, when he wasn't able to locate her anywhere.   He called Stuart Brooks' house (of course) to see if Leslie's father had any knowledge of Leslie's whereabouts.  I guess Stuart wasn't on the show that day, so Jill answered the phone.   It was like a 30-second conversation.  "Hi, this is Lance Prentiss.  Who is this?"  "This is Jill."  "Oh.  Is Mr. Brooks there?"  "No."  "I was wondering if maybe Leslie was there ...."  "No, haven't seen her."  "Has Leslie been by there at all today, or yesterday, or the day before?"  "No."  That was about the extent of it, lol.     

27 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I noticed Bell made sure his dialogue would mention the character's name being spoke to. Like " Chris you're in love with love" Leslie I know your first love is the piano......go back and look at the 1975 episode where all the characters make sure to  often speak the name of who they are talking to. I guess Bell wanted a potential new viewer who may stumble upon the show while channel surfing could  pick it right up if they started to watch.

I believe that the constant repetition of NAMES was something that Irna Phillips developed in the 1950s, and then passed along to Bill Bell.   The idea of repetition initially stemmed from the realization that viewers might wander into the kitchen or the utility room during the show, but if the names were being repeated during each line of dialogue, viewers would know who was speaking even if the viewer was merely listening (like the old radio shows), rather than actually watching.  (Plus, as y'all said, it also reinforces to newer viewers who the characters are.) 

Bell was a master of "stylizing" his dialogue.  For instance, a scene would start with, "What brings YOU by?"  And the answer would be, "I think you have SOME IDEA why I'm here."  The first character would then say, "No, I can't imagine what YOU could POSSIBLY have to say to ME."  And the answer would be, "Oh, I think you KNOW what I'm here to discuss with you."  "Well, I'm not interested in anything YOU have to say."  "Oh, you'll be interested in THIS -- very interested, indeed!"  (lol.  Who the hell talks that way in real life?!   But it slowly develops the tension of whether or not *the secret* that frames the scene is about to be revealed to the other character and to the audience.)

Bell's characters were also very STYLIZED in their stage movements, though this was probably a joint effort between Bell and John Conboy.  We saw this type of stylization VIVIDLY in the 1975 episode where Jennifer Brooks was being wheeled into the operating room for her mastectomy.  There were six characters present for Jennifer's surgery --- Stuart, the four daughters, and Bruce Henderson.  At the end of the episode, as the orchestrated music swelled to its climax, all six of the "surgery witnesses" strode into the hospital corridor and struck stylized, non-realistic, magazine-type poses that would linger in the viewer's mind long after the closing credits rolled.  Peggy threw herself into Stuart's arms, carefully projecting her profile toward the camera.  Bruce Henderson stood against the wall and struck a GQ pose, with his arms folded across his chest.   Lorie, Chris, and Leslie positioned themselves directly in front of the operating room doors like Charlie's Angels, with the blonde girl in the middle, and the two girls with darker hair flanking her on either side.   They all placed their arms around each other, with Lorie and Leslie gazing toward the camera, while Chris raised her face and looked toward the ceiling, allowing the lighting to gently carress her beautiful blonde hair.  The girls' outfits were carefully selected in advance from Giorgio's of Beverly Hills so that the girls would look color-coordinated with each other, and none of them would clash with the operating doors that they would be posing in front of at the conclusion of the episode.

THAT'S the kind of stylized posing, posturing and voguing that made Y&R look so strange and so astonishingly unique.     

9 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

but Y&R has always been such a unique animal, in the soap world......with it's production and somewhat "old-fashioness"  but yet still up to date on the current culture.....that's what intrigues me about it the most. 

Yep, in those early years, it didn't even RESEMBLE anything else on television.   The content was relatively old-fashioned (people talking about romance and relationships, mostly), but it was so slick and lush and moody, featured so much SKIN and sensuality, moved in such a free-flowing and liquid manner, didn't seem to play by the rules of other shows.   One scene might show Snapper stepping out of the shower and taking Chris to bed; the next scene might show Brock strumming a hymn on his guitar while Kay frantically chain-smoked cigarettes.   It had a such a strange and stylized look -- not like "real people", but like someone's IDEA of real people.  You just never knew what you were gonna see on Y&R. 

2 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

You have such a good memory! I bet you could recite the first 6 years of the show by heart!  

lol.  I wish.  I was just an impressionable little kid who watched it every day, because it was such a strange-looking show.   My parents always watched "World Turns" after they ate lunch.   This stuff of Bill Bell's was something ENTIRELY different from what they watched, lol. 

5 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

Well damn! 

 

It is sad that soaps were so daring and bold back in the 70s but are so dull, cliche, and saccharine nowadays. 

Soaps used to reflect real life, and they took risks; they obviously don't even try anymore.

The scene where Brock quoted scripture to Lorie, only to have her roll her eyes and say "what a waste!" is VERY memorable, because it established so much about the two characters.   It showed that Brock had completely transformed his views toward being "holy" and "spiritually helpful to his fellow humans", and it showed the extent of Lorie's grief over her break-up with Mark.   As you said, we just don't see things like that anymore.   

3 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

 

Was it ever revealed what they did abroad? I am assuming drugs but knowing the great Bill Bell, it was probably something else too...

It was described (in typical 1970s fashion) as "tripping on drugs and sex".  lol.  So I'd assume they got high pretty often, and he porked her regularly. 

By the time Brock showed up in Genoa City, he'd "found the Lort", so he wasn't much into the weed, coke, and LSD.   Also, he didn't do much porking.  But after Mark Henderson ditched Lorie in about 1975, she went to the Allegro and begged Brock to take her home and bang her brains out.   He didn't.  Instead, he delivered a brief sermon and serenaded her with a hymn.  She rolled her eyes and said, "What a waste!"  lol. 

24 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

Chris seemed to share a lot of time with early Nikki pre-Victor. 

 

I think the only time Kay interacted with The Prentiss was when she attended the 1981 Gala Ball and Lance escorted Leslie. Kay & Vanessa would have been awesome fighting with each other. What if Kay had hooked up with Lucas ? The fur would be flying.

 

 

Nikki was kinda unique in that she interacted at various times with all four of the Brooks sisters, though never as a family unit.  As you pointed out, Nikki and Chris were "friends" when they were each married to a Foster brother.   Then later, Nikki was in the New World cult with Peggy, but didn't seem to realize that Peggy was Chris's little sister.    A year or so after that, Nikki took piano lessons from Leslie, but never quite seemed to make the connection that Leslie was an older sister of Chris and Peggy.   And of course finally, in 1982, Lorie became Nikki's rival for Goat Daddy's ancient love & affection, but again Nikki didn't seem to notice a connection with any of the other Brooks girls.  It was only when they showed up as a group in 1984 at the Goat Wedding that Nikki saw them all at once. 

Yeah, the only time I saw Kay cross paths with a Prentiss was when Kay and Lance were both guests at the concert in London. 

43 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

 

I remember someone posting that there was a scene where Katherine, Jennifer, and Vanessa all wound up in the office of a plastic surgeon at the same time. I wonder if they conversed with one another or if they had them sitting in different parts of the waiting room waiting to be called back ?

That sounds more like "fan fiction", lol. 

Jennifer Brooks definitely had some reconstructive surgery after her mastectomy (circa 1975?), and Mrs. Prentiss had scar tissue from the burns removed from her face (circa 1977?).  Kay toyed with the idea of having a face-lift from about 1980 till she finally did it in 1984.   But I sure don't remember any of those three surgical procedures ever "colliding" in a plastic surgeon's office.  

The only ocassion where I remember Kay consulting with a doctor, surprisingly, in the 1970s was when she was married to Derek Thurston, and Derek decided that he wanted a kid.   Kay went to her OB/GYN who told her that she could still get pregnant if she wanted to, but he advised against it because of all her drinking and smoking.  He assured her that she hadn't begun menopause yet.  I remember being sorta STUNNED by that revelation, because Kay looked to be 60+ years old.   In reality, Jeanne Cooper was about 48 at the time.  (The problem was eventually solved of course by Kay tracking down Suzanne Lynch, who was theoretically gonna return the little boy Jamie to Derek, but that didn't ever happen because the boy was in an institution or something.)

But don't trust anything that I say, because I've already freely admitted that I'd completely forgotten about the scene between Snapper Foster and Vanessa Prentiss, lol. 

47 minutes ago, AdamNewmanFan said:

I like sally. I like JG too since they are basically the same writer lol

Josh is OK, I guess.  We've certainly had far worse writers than Josh Griffith in the past sixteen years.   Josh seems to catch most of the "beats", makes some smart decisions (bringing back the Adam character), but he also makes some strange decisions (his 2013 "reboot").   What I liked most about Sally Sussman is that she took the debris left by Chuck Pratt and moved forward with it rather carefully, without really compromising any history, no matter how absurd Pratt's history actually was.    Josh seems determined to move backwards towards his last stint, even if it's kinda jarring at times.  But like I said, we've certainly had worse than him.   I'll take his character-based writing over "plot" writing any day of the week. 

50 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

I think it was just edits of Lorie scenes someone had uploaded. They had the shooting, Lorie and Lucas at the disco, Lorie confronting Leslie about her pregnancy and going ape crap on her. They also had the scene where Lorie upstage Leslie at the 1981 Gala ball where she walked in with the dress slit up to her crotch. 

Maybe it was included in the "edit tapes".   I just remember being surprised by the scene between Snapper and Vanessa at the lakehouse after the shooting, because I'd completely forgotten that Snapper and Vanessa ever crossed paths. 

The show definitely took a turn for the worse when Jack Smith was added as headwriter about 2002.    Just got worse and worse from there on, specifically with that whole stupid business of Kay and Jill being "mother and daughter".   Then of course Latham came along about 2005, and the show was even more unrecognizable.  (I'm one of the five peope in the United States who liked Sally Sussman's writing a couple of years ago.)   

5 hours ago, SoapDope said:

I read that the Brooks actors complained to Bill Bell that they wanted to interact with The Chancellor's and would write storyline ideas and submit them. Bell would ignore it. Dorothy Green (Jennifer) was really quite vocal about it. She also complained how the older women were written to the soap press. Bell killed off her character in 1977 and she was vocal about that too. 

I guess the Brooks actors and the Chancellor actors did interact to a (very small) extent at different times during the 1970s.   There were definitely a few random stray scenes between Lorie Brooks and Phillip Chancellor.   (My impression of those scenes was that Bill Bell was "screen-testing" the chemistry of Phillip and Lorie, perhaps contemplating killing-off Kay, establishing Jill and Phillip as a married couple, and then having Lorie subsequently become Jill's rival for Phillip.   But it must've become clear to Bill Bell that Donnelly Rhodes was more dispensable than Jeanne Cooper, and far more storyline potential could be generated by having Kay and Jill become long-term rivals, fighting over the legacy of the dead Phillip.)

And during the 1970s, all four of the Brooks girls interacted at one time or another with Brock.   He debuted as Lorie's friend, became Peggy's friend during the Jack/JoAnna storyline, briefly courted Leslie, and interacted platonically with Chris on and off the whole time. 

A few years after the death of Jennifer Brooks, a couple of the Brooks girls strayed into scenes with Kay.   I'm thinking there was a scene in 1979 where Kay, who was presumed dead from the fire at Fairview Sanitarium and who was hiding out at Liz's house and playing dead, enlisted Lorie Brooks' help in sabotaging some of Jill's divorce and remarriage plans.   (Stuart Brooks was about to present Jill with a large property settlement check to finally get rid of her, not realizing that Jill was planning to cash his check and then immediately elope with Derek to cash-in on Kay's inheritance.   To stop Stuart from squandering his money on Jill's unnecessary settlement, didn't Kay call Lorie Brooks and get Lorie to tear-up the check Stuart had written before Jill had a chance to cash it?  After getting the heads-up from Kay about what was going on, Lorie then sat down with Brock in the Allegro and compared notes, discovering that Jill was playing Stuart and Derek against each other trying to determine which man could benefit Jill the most financially.  Lorie's primary goal was keeping Jill away from Mr. Brooks, while Brock's primary goal was freeing Mr. Brooks and also finding out how serious Derek and Jill were about marrying. )  

[Edited to include synopsis from SOD about the above scene:  "Kay learns from Liz that Jill has asked Stuart Brooks for a quick divorce, but it will cost Stuart.  Jill is asking for a $100,000 settlement.  Kay turns to Brock and says she can't allow that to happen, and she knows just the way to stop it.  Kay calls Lorie Brooks ...   Jill signs the papers, and Stuart hands the check over to Jill.  Jill suddenly feels the check being torn from her hands.  Lorie smiles as she rips the check into little pieces.  Lorie says that she won't allow Jill to rob Stuart of $100,000.  Lorie tells her father that they're going to call Jill's bluff.  Jill doesn't want a long, drawn-out court battle, because she is planning to marry Derek Thurston."]  

After the show expanded to an hour and was in that weird transition phase, there were definitely a few scenes where Kay, Liz, Lorie and Leslie met with Mr. Blackwell about designing Liz's dress for the trip to London for Leslie's concert.    And then of course Kay and Jerry Cashman showed up in London, where Kay was on-hand to see Lorie's entrance to the ball in that dress that was split all the way up to Lorie's hoochie.

And there was another scene during that same time frame, where Kay dragged Liz Brooks to the Bayou to watch Cash "dance", which embarrassed Liz half to death, because Liz didn't seem to understand that Cash was a stripper until the two ladies were seated in the Bayou and Cash came prancing out dressed as a policeman or whatever.   When Kay delivered Liz back home, Stuart and Peggy were there to taunt Liz about watching male strippers.  (Stuart made some teasing comment about buying himself some "sexy bikini briefs" like the ones he presumed Cash had been wearing, which inspired Peggy to make vomit noises.) 

When Lorie Brooks was tricking Victor Newman into signing over the Prentiss Industries stock proxies to her (in 1982), Nikki Bancroft was jealous that Lorie might be about to marry Victor.   I distinctly remember a scene where Kay counseled Nikki that Lorie Brooks could be a "very dangerous adversary" if Nikki really cared about Goat Daddy.

Speaking of characters who rarely if ever interacted, I'd forgotten that Snapper Foster ever laid eyes on Vanessa Prentiss.   A few months ago, someone posted the vintage episode from 1978, in which Vanessa Prentiss had plotted to shoot Lorie but accidentally popped a cap into her beloved Lance instead. Realizing that Lance had been shot, Lorie immediately called Snapper to hurry out to the lakehouse and treat the bleeding Lance.  Once Lance had been stabilized, there was a (very) brief scene during which David Hasselhoff's Snapper acknowledged K.T. Stevens' Vanessa, and said, "Mrs. Prentiss, this could've been a whole lot WORSE than it turned out.  All of you are very lucky.  Good-night."    If I hadn't re-watched this episode when it appeared on YouTube a few months ago, I would've insisted that Snapper never met Vanessa in his life, although Snapper and Lance were brothers-in-law for a LONG period of time while Chris Brooks was married to Snapper, and Lorie Brooks was married to Lance.        

27 minutes ago, Khan said:

Well, an illicit affair between a middle-aged, upper-middle-class woman and a high school boy would've been right up Bill Bell's, and early Y&R's, proverbial alley!

Exactly!   Mrs. Kay Chancellor essentially "inherited" both of those storyline threads that were (allegedly) planned for Mrs. Regina Henderson.   The high school boy turned into "Jeff the Stable Boy" at the Chancellor house,  played by Rod Arrants, who was in his late 20s at the time, but looked even younger, and who "serviced" Kay Chancellor when Phillip wouldn't sleep with her.   And the car-crash caused by the drunken socialite was re-formatted into Kay Chancellor driving her beloved Phillip off the cliff to keep him away from young Jill.    

5 hours ago, will81 said:

In press prior to the shows debut, The Hendersons are mentioned along with the Brooks and Foster Families. It made it sound like they were supposed to be the third family in town.

Some folks who've read the show's original bible (I've never seen it) say that Mrs. Regina Henderson was slated to have a sexual relationship with a high school boy, go on a drunken bender, and drive-off a cliff with the boy in her car, leading to the boy's death.   (After the Henderson family was downgraded substantially in the actual televised show, the "cliff event" was actually utilitized, of course, with Kay Chancellor as the driver and Phillip as the victim.) 

11 hours ago, SoapDope said:

I remember reading that The Henderson family was supposed to play an important long term role on the show. The wife Regina was supposed to be kind of a Katherine Chancellor type, but supposedly after Katherine was brought on, Regina Henderson fizzled rather quickly after she appeared the following year. Kay Alden said if you go back and look at Bell's original bible for Y&R, he specifically had the character of Kay Chancellor down to make her debut in November 1973 and Lorie Brooks in December. 

 

Yeah, some daytime magazine from the period (can't remember which one) did a spread on Y&R and announced that the Hendersons were supposed to be a vital core family.   Supposedly, John Conboy and Bill Bell were casting "Ma Henderson" -- the mother of Liz Foster and Bruce Henderson; Bruce Henderson; Bruce's wife Regina;  their son Mark; and another son whose name I can't remember (may have been "Russell").   Evidently, Bill Bell pretty much dropped this whole idea of featuring the Hendersons as a third core family for the time being.   We basically just got Bruce & Mark, with a few appearances from Regina and the grandmother.   I always felt that Bill Bell re-tooled the "mother-and-her-two-sons-concept" in 1977 with Vanessa Prentiss, Lance and Lucas; rather than utilizing it earlier with Regina, Mark, and Russell.  (And then of course he revisited the idea later with Stephanie, Ridge and Thorne on B&B.)    

2 hours ago, Cat said:

but the music, the lighting, doing so much with (relatively) little.

 

 One close-up of Trish playing Chris was honestly so breath-taking.

I completely agree about the music and the lighting.   And remember, back in 1975, most of the soaps (specifically the P&G soaps) were still utilizing strains of organ music to punctuate scenes --- yet here Y&R is with its lush "modern" instrumentation, not intruding into the storyline, but completely setting the tone and the mood.   And the LIGHTING --- not the flat, harsh overhead lighting that other shows of the 70s were still using then, but real film noir Hollywood lighting that can even make a hospital room look moody and appealing.  And yes, the hair, make-up and wardrobe people went above and beyond with Trish Stewart in this episode, and you can't help but notice how she's showcased in three entirely different types of lighting --- first in the shadowy gloom of Stuart Brooks' early morning living room, then in the flickering sunlight of the hospital room, and then in the hospital corridor where the lighting is more "normalized".   And she looks absolutely stunning in each of the close-ups.     

9 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

I think Bill Bell deliberately isolated characters eg Kay and Jennifer as he realized that the half hour could not support it. If Kay and Jen were friends then as well as Kay being a part of the Brooks story, Jennifer in turn would have involvement in all that was going on with  Kay and Jill and there would be an obligation to write to that which could dilute the overall story.

Also he liked to keep things up his sleeve so that later, characters could connect and open up new avenues to explore.

 

 

I agree.  Plus, it seems that Bill Bell deliberately placed Jennifer Brooks and Kay Chancellor in separate "orbits", because, after all, they were esentially the same prototype of character, being used in two completely different storylines. 

With Jennifer Brooks, we get the vain, shallow, needy, blonde, non-working, middle-aged society lady (with fading beauty) who is placed in a "matriarch" role of an upper-middle-class family, with her entire world revolving around her daughters and her husband, while she carelessly seeks outside attention to affirm that she's still attractive and desirable to men.

With Kay Chancellor, we get the vain, shallow, needy, blonde, non-working, middle-aged society lady (with fading beauty) who is placed in a more upper-crust/millionaire environment, with no children except an estranged son, and her entire world revolves around her addictions and out-of-control desires and her need to be reigned back into a more wholesome and productive life. 

It's almost as if Bill Bell looked at the Jennifer Brooks character after a few months of storytelling, and said, "Let's see what happens if we take this character, give her even MORE money, take away the children, give her a pack of cigarettes, a bottle of vodka, a husband who neglects her, a stableboy who bangs her, and let's see how LITTLE JILL would deal with this woman."

To put Jennifer and Kay in the same "universe" would make it pretty obvious that Bell was perhaps overusing this prototype, although his use of the character certainly differed in the context of Jennifer's storyline and Kay's storyline.     

6 hours ago, Khan said:

You know what struck me most about that episode from '75 (aside from the intelligent dialogue and acting)?  You didn't see the elaborate set furnishings or camera angles that came to define Y&R in the next decade.  The Brooks living room was the most expensive-looking set -- and even that wasn't as sumptuous as other sets I've seen on other series from that period.

 

What's my point, you ask?  Very simply, you don't need to mimic the Wes Kenney/Ed Scott aesthetic for Y&R to still be Y&R today.  All you need are well-drawn characters, engaged in engrossing story that (as @DramatistDreamer says above) takes its time to unfold.

What I was noticing was how aesthetically pleasing this episode was, despite being staged (out of necessity)  in a fairly sterile, bland hospital environment.   Yes, during this particular episode we were "deprived" of the lush sets that we often saw on Y&R during the John Conboy era, but even with the fairly drab hospital set, you could see John Conboy's fingerprints all over it.   When Jennifer awoke, the hospital widow blinds were positioned in such a manner that sunlight was filtering into the room and making flickering daybreak-shadows fall across the table and lamp in front of the window.   And there in front of the window stood three breathtakingly beautiful young girls --- all impeccably dressed in their Southern California casual pantsuits, thoughtfully provided to Columbia Pictures by Giorgio's of Beverly Hills.   John Conboy made sure that the whoever directed the episode (Bill Dunlap, probably) zoomed in to get close-ups of the flawless complexions and carefully-styled hair of Lorie, Leslie, and Chris, without ever distracting from the very modern (even controversial, for the time) storyline Bill Bell was telling about a woman having a breast removed.  This was VERY unusual at the time --- telling a ground-breaking storyline about a masectomy, discussing breasts so frankly on daytime television, focusing the viewer's attention on three beautiful young women instead of on the patient herself, showcasing innovative Hollywood lighting techniques in a hospital room, of all places -- and presenting all of this in the context of very traditional, soap-based family drama.  This is the period when Y&R was really shaking-up the daytime world, and this particular episode goes a long way toward showing how Bill Bell and John Conboy were accomplishing this transformation.   It may seem bland to us now, but at the time I bet this seemed very riveting and modern, but at the same time soapy enough not to drive away the more traditional daytime audience.   

On ‎9‎/‎6‎/‎2019 at 6:06 AM, BoldRestless said:

November 12, 1984

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting this one, BoldRestless!   1984 is among my favorite years for Y&R.   Most of the emphasis here is on characters in their early 20s -- Traci, Lauren, Danny, Amy.  Each of them was a very well-developed character, and I was interested in all of them at the time (even Danny, lol).   Obviously the Jazz/Tyrone mob storyline was fairly stupid, but old Mr. Anthony (Logan Ramsey?) was a good actor, and he did his best to make the storyline interesting.  And Jazz Jackson (Jon St. Elwood) was such a unique and interesting character.   Bonus treat here --- during Amy and Ty's bedroom scene, the languid tune playing in the background is the instrumental "Down the Line" from the soundtrack "Bless the Beasts and the Children", one of Y&R's original tracks.  Loved hearing it again, especially while looking at that cute Stephanie E. Williams and her amazing smile.   

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2019 at 9:15 PM, titan1978 said:

 

 

Y&R was relatively stable until Brenda Dickson left during that time too.  I don’t recall a major role being recast once the show really took off again mid 1980’s until Jill and then later, Jack.

 

 

Y&R was kinda "jarring" by 1989, because three big roles in the Abbott family had been recast.   While all of the recasts were "workable", they were each FAR less quirky and individualized than their predecessors.   Say what you will about Brenda Dickson's Jill, but she was a very unique character, and when Jess Walton took over in 1987, the character became perhaps more real and relatable, but lacked that wooden, stylized, stare-off-in-the-distance-and-bark-out-your-lines craziness of Brenda Dickson's Jill.  Then in 1988, Eileen Davidson's cool, aloof, eye-rolling Ashley was replaced by the kinder, gentler, more approachable, more down-to-earth Brenda Epperson, who did fine but obviously lacked the acting quirks of Eileen Davidson.   And then in 1989, Terry Lester's flustered, yelling, grinning, bad-boy Jack Abbott was replaced by the more debonair and sauve (but far less quirky) Peter Bergman.   There were times in 1989 when Jack, Ashley, and Jill would share a scene and I'd just think, "Who ARE these people!?")  They were all just fine in their roles, but were so much less bizarre and engaging and unique than the actors they replaced.   

Yep, I'm afraid the days of a soap trying to revolutionize, to any extent, are long gone.   Younger viewers are avoiding these shows like the plague, and older viewers are tuning out or dying off.   No one is interested in taking a chance on anything new (not even a new character); they're just regurgitating the same old dinosaur characters and the same old dinosaur storylines, attempting to hang onto the status quo.  Soaps have really become, unfortunately, an "alternate reality" that don't remotely resemble the real-life that most of us inhabit. 

Lord, these are some terrible ratings.   Blackout or not, the bottom is clearly falling out for Y&R, and I suppose that's been on the horizon for quite a while.  With it's half-hour format, you'd think B&B would be performing a LITTLE bit better than it is, but obviously the low-quality writing isn't helping much.   As for the other two, they're so bad off that they're barely worth discussing.   When we (generously) allow a 5-year life span for the genre to survive on daytime, I think we're being overly optimistic.