Broderick

Yes, Victor Newman had been on the show for months and months, before he ever crossed paths with Kay Chancellor.   In February of 1980, Victor and Julia Newman's Rolls Royce was stolen and taken for a joyride by Cathy Bruder, a girl that Brock Reynolds was assigned by the court system to defend.  Brock met the Newmans when it was time to take their depositions.   Julia wanted Cathy Bruder to be tried as a minor, while Victor wanted the girl to be tried as an adult.  There was no suggestion that the Newmans were new arrivals in Genoa City.   It was presumed they'd lived on their ranch for many years.   (We found out a year or two later, in backstory, that the Newman ranch had once belonged to Kay Chancellor and her first husband, Gary Reynolds, and that Kay had sold the property to Victor without ever having met him personally.) 

With Victor having a Rolls-Royce, Bill Bell seemed to be hinting that Victor Newman was extremely wealthy, possibly a billionaire or at least a multi-millionaire.   Kay Chancellor had always been portrayed as being very upper-crust, but certainly not a billionaire.   I thought it was absurd when Kay died, and her estate was divided up, and they were talking about Devon getting two billion dollars or whatever.   That's not how Mrs. Chancellor had been written in the past.   She was just a wealthy lady --- presumably far wealthier than the upper-class Brooks family, but certainly not an internationally known billionaire.     

What killed me about the 1986 episode (which I thoroughly enjoyed) was that Bill Bell seemed to continuously toy with the idea of creating some kind of love triangle among Paul, Faren, and Andy.   (Paul was always running to the Rendevous and pouring out his heart to Faren, who was supposed to be Andy's girlfriend. In this episode, he went to the Rendevous to whine to Faren about ending his marriage to Lauren Fenmore.)   It was pretty clear that Paul's BEST chemistry was with Stephanie E. Williams, but I guess you just couldn't go there in 1986.     

No, Josh Morrow ain't the greatest actor in the world by a long shot, but he's ok.   He does well at certain things, and not-so-well at others.   To me, he'll never be very realistic as a high-powered businessman or as a world-renowned playboy.   But as a middle-class Dad playing with his kids, working in a coffee shop or a bar, pining after Sharon, and being slightly spoiled by his trust fund background, he's just fine.  The problem seems to be that Josh Morrow sometimes seems to lean on the writers to make his characters more "high-powered" or whatever, and it just doesn't work for him as an actor OR as a character.     

Yeah, the Brooks & Foster families desperately needed to bite the dust, and Bill Bell knew it.   By 1982, after all the recasting, there were only TWO of the characters that Bell truly seemed to be interested in --- Snapper Foster, played by David Hasselhoff, and Lorie Brooks, played by Jaime Lyn Bauer.  And unfortunately, both of those actors had been expressing readiness for quite some time to move on from the show.   Plus they were "aging out" of the early to mid-20s age range that Bell preferred writing for in those days.   David Hasselhoff was about to turn 30, and Jaime Lyn Bauer was already 32.   Bell didn't seem interested in writing for a bunch of characters in their 30s, especially when he was about to lose his favorite two. 

It just made MUCH better sense to shift the storyline to focus on the younger and charismatic Melody Thomas, Doug Davidson, Terry Lester, Eileen Davidson, Lilibet Stern, Stephanie Williams, Steven Ford, and even Michael Damian.   They seemed to offer a fresh start to Bell, and he evidently couldn't WAIT to sweep out all those bland recasts in tiresome stories and reboot his show.   It was a very risky decision -- one that nobody would have the guts to do today -- but it paid off for Bell.   Within a year of rebooting, he was winning an Emmy for best show, and within a few more years, he was at number one in the ratings.    

Regarding "Edge of Night", I tend to agree with J Swift that it was always the intention of Henry Slesar to reveal Jefferson Brown was a con man impersonating his friend Schuyler Whitney. 

Since Slesar's genre is mystery (and it's difficult to get inside his head and re-create his thinking process), it appears that he drafted a storyline in which a poor man named Jefferson Brown would benefit from the death of his wealthier friend Schuyler Whitney by impersonating Schuyler Whitney after Whitney's death.  Gunther Wagner was simply the henchman that Jefferson Brown hired to help carry out his nefarious plans.  All of Jefferson Brown's schemes would unravel because of the tell-tale birthmark which Dr. Bryson failed to conceal.   

As Jefferson Brown's misdeeds mounted, it was too late to turn course and try redeeming the character.   The storyline seemed to be "set in stone" that Brown would betray his henchman and murder Gunther, and then be revealed as an imposter.   What Slesar and P&G had NOT counted on was the growing popularity of Larkin Malloy and David Froman in the roles of Schuyler and Gunther.   The two actors had a strange and bizarre chemistry, not to mention the chemistry between Larkin Malloy and Sharon Gabet.  The only "re-write" seemed to come at the story's conclusion when a New Schuyler (the real one) came onto the scene with the Real Gunther.   This seemed devised simply to satisfy the audience's desire to see the two characters continue even after the planned storyline concluded.   And it DID result in some classic scenes.  I'll never forget Raven's line to the Real Schuyler when he appeared on the scene.  "I wouldn't marry you even if you were the last millionaire on earth!"  lol.        

I dislike it when Adam hogs up the entire show (as he's sometimes done in the past), but with the current Victoria being such a lifeless sap, I think Adam is an essential character.   I always felt Bell's intention with the Newman kids was to create a fiery Little Female Victor Newman (with Victoria), and a Dimwitted Male Nikki Newman (with Nicholas).   Josh Morrow has lived up to his end of the bargain (playing Nikki's dumb pampered little prince), but the poor girl playing Victoria hasn't been able to generate any "Victor" in her performance because (a) she's an extremely dull actress and (b) she's been given stupid storylines such as making reliquaries out of construction paper.   You really need Adam to fill the Victor gap among the kids.   The Nekkid Heiress can't do it, the brain-dead Frat Boy can't (and shouldn't) do it, and neither can the sleepwalking dullard Victoria.   

40 minutes ago, Vee said:

Let's not forget that Thom Bierdz also had a weird kelp-like helmet of hair and seemed to have funky wooden teeth, like Richard Steinmetz on GH. The whole thing was bizarre.

And a strange whistling sound emanating from his wooden teeth that transformed the word "booze" into "booosh". 

22 hours ago, Khan said:

I don't think anyone at Y&R counted on Thom Bierdz being such a bad actor.  Otherwise, he might've stuck around.  As it is, though, I'd be happy to see Phillip back, but with a new (and better) actor in the role.

I think that's exactly what happened.   When Thom Bierdz was on the show in the late 1980s as PCIII, he had a "lost look" on his face and an awkward, stilted line delivery that truly suited a character who'd been shipped away to boarding school as a child, hadn't had a relationship with his mother at all, didn't know much of anything about his father, and didn't feel loved or wanted by anyone.   But when he was "resurrected from the dead" circa 2009, his acting was FAR WORSE than it had been before and didn't compliment the "comfortable, out-and-proud" character he was now being described in the script as being.  It just didn't work.  Plus the writing itself was terrible.  (The two women who'd fought tooth and nail for custody of him in the 1980s -- Kay and Jill --- barely seemed touched by his reappearance, and seemed reluctant even to embrace him.   Mrs. Chancellor had spent years carressing and fondling him, fawning all over him, and would do anything to win his favor.  When he returned from the dead, she was like, "Oh well.")  The whole storyline was just a complete dud.   The only thing accomplished, on a positive note, was that it established once and for all that Cane Ashby wasn't Jill's son.   But then the writers opted to have Jill marry Cane's father and become Cane's stepmother, so that the one positive development was undone.    The story would've only worked if Bierdz had played the "reborn character" for a while, and then replaced by a smoother, more polished performer who could've had some genuine fun with the role.  (Jacob Young, who was being squandered on B&B, came to my mind immediately.  He's a lot younger than Beirdz, but plays a little older than his real-life age, and it would've given the writers an opportunity to de-age "Chance" as well, and reboot that entire family.) 

14 hours ago, Darn said:

 

Kind of how they aged Billy on Y&R from 3 to 16, John and Jill are old enough for me to just hand wave it. It was the same on Days with Victor, Kate and Phillip. It bothers me when characters who shouldn't have teenage children suddenly do, it unnecessarily ages them. Lily suddenly having teenagers was such an asinine decision. Christel Khalil looks barely older than them! It's stupid.

 

 

I did the hand wave on Billy Abbott too.   But it still kinda bothered me that Jill's older son, Phillip Chancellor III, grew up (thanks to SORASing), developed a drinking problem, and allegedly died from a car crash years and years before Billy Abbott was ever born.  And then when Phillip was magically resurrected, he appeared to be about 10 years older than Billy, which begged the hypothetical question, "Did the two boys now KNOW each other when they were younger, since their ages suddenly overlapped."  That was never explored, since Mrs. Bell shipped Phillip away as soon as she dragged him from the crypt. 

Glad to hear from Josh Griffith that Phyllis is gonna be "everything I know and love." 

Since I can barely stand her version of Phyllis, I'm not quite sure what that means. 

Seems like there was an image in the credits of "Fame" of Stephanie E. Williams jumping up in the air with her legs wide open, lol.  Is that the one we're talking about? 

26 minutes ago, DeeeDee said:

That's how I felt about Alex Donnelly & Susan Walters.

Yeah, Susan Walters really "toned down" the quirks of Diane, just as Aunt Jack muted the spoiled brattiness and quirky explosiveness of Terry Lester's Jack. 

24 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I do think Brenda Epperson was able to turn Ashley into a more conventional soap heroine, but she didn't have the same 'Ice Princess' quality Eileen's Ashley had and that was an important element of the character. 

Definitely.   I really learned to appreciate Brenda Epperson's sweet, soft-spoken soap heroine called "Ashley", but she was never the same character as that aloof, ballsy, assertive, take-charge, eye-rolling, exasperated Daddy's Beauty that Eileen had played. 

On ‎5‎/‎28‎/‎2019 at 12:32 AM, will81 said:

I was just watching the Nov 20, 1987 episode where Eileen's Ashley got so fed up of Jack she laid back in her chair and started fanning herself and rolling her eyes. Terry/Jack was being more annoying than usual about Brad. At the end Jack leaves and Ashley does the gun to the head thing.

I think that's the main reason it was hard to pair Eileen Davidson's Ashley with a leading man.   (Fanning herself, rolling her eyes, gun-to-the-head thing).  There was always SO MUCH going on with the subtext of her acting that she tended to overshadow almost everyone else in her scenes, with the notable exceptions of Terry Lester and Eric Braeden. 

In the days of only three main television networks, a LOT of men watched a soap during their lunchbreak.  In my office, all of the men watched either All My Children, Days of our Lives, or Y&R, because those were three choices at lunch.   Some dudes watched in the office; others went home and watched with their wives.  It was just a habit.  If someone went out to a restaurant at lunch, he'd usually ask a co-worker later that afternoon what he missed that day regarding Erica Kane, Marlena Evans, or Victor Newman.   But when ESPN began having better offerings, a lot of guys dropped their soap.  By the mid-1990s, when many offices began having Internet access, there was even less soap viewing.  By the time smart phones arrived, there was even less.  I think I'm the only guy in my office who still watches Y&R.  No one watches Days anymore, and obviously AMC is off the table entirely.         

Terry and Eileen.   They could look more affectionate (and more exasperated) with each other than any two people I've ever seen.

I believe Bill Bell told about all the story he wanted to tell with Traci in her first five years on the show.  He had her shed some of her "chubette" poundage, be praised and appreciated for her singing, marry her big crush (Danny) platonically, spar with a shrew (Lauren), and ultimately land a handsome husband (Brad).  When he'd accomplished all those things, Bell sent her packing back to college to work on her master's degree.  After that, he only seemed interested in using her sporadically or in a recurring capacity when she was needed in the storyline.  And I tend to agree that she works best in that matter. 

Yeah, only a few days lapsed between the introduction of Ashley and the subsequent introduction of Traci.   If I remember right (and it's only been 37 years ago, lol), seems like we saw John Abbott pop into Ashley's sorority house for a visit and let her know he'd be in attendance at her college graduation that evening.   A few days later, we saw John pop into the boarding school where Traci was matriculating and tell her that he'd be in attendance for Traci's high school graduation that evening.  Both girls went home to Genoa City following their graduations, because their older brother Jack was about to marry Patty Williams, and they were participating in the wedding.  Of course Ashley stayed in town and went to work at Jabot under the name Suzanne Ashley. All summer, we were told that Traci was only in town temporarily and would be "going away to college" in the fall.  But when fall rolled around, Traci decided to enroll in GCU, because she'd made friends with Danny Romalotti, had reconnected with her old friend from boarding school Angela Laurence, and was enjoying spending time with her family rather than being constantly *away* at school.   

It would be interesting to see some episode counts from 1989, to find out whether or not Terry Lester's role was really "dwindling" or whether he maybe just felt that way about it.  (My feeling is that there was probably some justification to his grievances.   The "real Jill" had departed in 1987, and the "real Ashley" in 1988.   While the recasts for Jill and Ashley got their footing on the show, I think the Abbotts probably DID take a backseat to Cricket, Nina, Phillip, and Danny to a larger extent than previously. If I remember right, 1989 was also the year that Phillip III died, which propelled Cricket even further to the forefront.)     

2 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

I loved how cool and businesslike yet warm and maternal Vanessa could be.  Credit due to Maeve Kinkaid for layering her performances just right.  

 

I agree.   In fact, there's a lot of Joan Bennett imbued in Maeve's performance.  Joan Bennett always seemed regal, cool, sophisticated and almost aloof.  But when she had a "maternal" scene with a child or teenager, Joan would let her guard down and display a certain sweet warmth, without losing her sophisticated edge.  I see a lot of that in Maeve's Vanessa.   

I'm sure Beth Ehlers was under a LOT of pressure at work, "doing Shakespeare" opposite someone who "bless his heart, can't get out of second gear." 

They could spell "Di Salvo" correctly, but Mergeron, Dina, Traci, Kay, and Jabot were just too tough for 'em! 

I don't recall any shortage of Cricket scenes in the summers of 1983 and 1984.   I believe that she started modeling in the summer of 1983, and Ashley and Jack would have to pop into the photography studio periodically to assure her that she was the loveliest, most beautiful and most brilliant girl on the entire planet.   By the summer of 1984, Jabot had built an entire modeling campaign around Cricket (the "Jabot Junior" line), which resulted in many more ghastly montages of Cricket frolicking with a beach ball during corny photo shoots.   To reward the little model for being so incredibly beautiful and brilliant, Jack introduced Cricket to Danny Romalotti, who was her favorite singer (naturally).   Traci, meanwhile, had gotten knocked-up by Tim Sullivan, and had decided to stick her head in the gas stove to kill herself.   Cricket came bouncing along and saved Traci's life, and also offered her some health and beauty tips.   This led to a whole storyline where Lauren was SEETHING with jealousy that Danny had married the pregnant Traci.  (Lauren was afraid that Danny would start singing with Traci instead of with her, since Traci was a decent singer and Lauren wasn't, lol.)   Amy Lewis, Gina Roma, and little Cricket were always on-hand to push the pregnant Traci out on stage to sing with Danny, which annoyed Lauren to no end and led to lots of catty lines from Lauren such as, "I doubt the public wants to see a fat frumpy wife singing with a hot guy like Danny!"   

It's hard to get an idea of what kind of "writer" Maria Arena Bell really was.   According to her biography, she's a novelist.   How many of her novels have you ever read?   How many of her novels have you ever even seen?!  lol.  I'm assuming that she's actually an "unpublished novelist", which puts her in the same basket with most of us --- nowhere. 

I always got the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that Maria Bell is merely a Beverly Hills socialite, a girl who breezes into occasional board meetings at the Museum of Contemporary Art, provided she's not in Paris shoe-shopping.  (She's also billed as a "fashion consultant".)   She never struck me as someone who's organized, disciplined, grounded, devoted to sitting in front of a word processor, thinking deep thoughts, and determining the best way to execute those ideas.   She lacks the "introverted awkwardness" of a really good writer, who's normally preoccupied with his/her craft.   She seemed more interested in globe-trotting, granting high-handed interviews, and appearing at red carpet events in hideously trendy shoes.

Obviously Mrs. Bell (or someone on her staff) had visited various message boards or had read letters to the show, and she could clearly articulate what we (the fans) disliked most about Lynn Marie Latham's reign of terror.   Mrs. Bell (or someone on her staff) knew what problems needed to be reversed, although the day-to-day execution itself of the writing was often bungled terribly.  After a year or so of coasting along correcting problems, suddenly Mrs. Bell and her staff found themselves in WAY over their heads.  

I blamed Hogan Sheffer.   It appeared to me that Mrs. Bell was an absentee dictator, a "name-only" writer/executive producer who stormed into the studio when her hectic schedule of board meetings, shoe-shopping, and overseas travel allowed, and screamed at everyone about what they were doing wrong.  (Sort of a sado-masochistic dominatrix who didn't really know how to edit a script or turn on a computer.)  Hogan Sheffer seemed like her overweight toadie, a man who sat under flourescent lights all day, cranking out ten zillion ideas, of which ONE might be decent and the remainder might be garbage.   Mrs. Bell probably stood over his desk five minutes per week, reading through an exhausting summary of his lousy storyline ideas, and then finally just circling a few at random and then sighing heavily and muttering, "Follow through with the ones I've circled.  I don't have time to think about it.  I'm hosting a luncheon for Queen Noor at noon, and I'll be on Rodeo Drive this afternoon shopping for a cute but professional lavender blouse to wear to my next Museum board meeting."   

Whatever the circumstances were, she was a TERRIBLE show-runner, and her assistants didn't seem equipped to deal with her style of leadership.  In my opinion, she was even worse than Lynn Marie Latham and Chuck Pratt --- simply because she KNEW what the fans wanted, but didn't have the time or the motivation or the talent to deliver it, and she couldn't be bothered to hire people who could. 

Yeah, Kay Alden and Jack Smith pretty carefully created a need for Jabot to require some extra cash and to turn towards Nikki and Brad for the funding.   It was all kind of integral to the storyline.   Plus it gave Nikki a good opportunity to interact with Jill, and gave them some great lines that drew on their history.

Jill:  You only have a position here because you BOUGHT yourself a position.

Nikki:   And YOU only have a position here because you SLEPT your way into it.

And then all of that got thrown away later in favor of NVP, Crystal Springs, and a stupid senate race.   

I don't remember Victor showing any interest in Casey.   I recall that they had some scenes together, where he was telling Casey that Julia needed a female friend.   But Casey quickly overstepped and encouraged Julia to get a job, which annoyed Goat Daddy.