Broderick

11 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

 

There were some minor tweaks that go unnoticed by most people but having studied music, I can tell. I will say that the basic melody stayed the same. If you ask me the theme song actually got worse when they changed it some years later. I never understood why they just do a variation of this or the first theme song to make more contemporary.

 

 

 

Yeah, the early version of the 1981 theme has a sort of high, metallic, harpsichord sound, which disappeared by the late 1980s.  

On 2/9/2021 at 4:47 PM, BoldRestless said:

 

 

Did Brock ever have sex in the history of the show, LOL. Other than the time that Mac was conceived offscreen, I mean. There were allusions to him having a wild life before he became a Christian... he's not a priest, so no vow of celibacy, but I suppose as religious as he was he wouldn't be having much pre-marital sex, other than the time with Mac's mother. I know he was married to Jill, but the marriage was never consummated, which gave the writers an opening to make Jill Kay's daughter.

 

 

 

 

Brock was a handsome, charismatic dude, but his sexual chemistry with his co-stars wasn't exactly sizzling, lol.   He had really good chemistry with almost everyone on the show -- Jill, Snapper, Greg, Lorie, Leslie, Chris and Peggy, JoAnne Curtis, Nikki & Casey  -- just to name a few! -- but it never really seemed very sexual.  

That's the first outline of an episode that I've ever seen.   Sure is minimalist.  I would've thought it would have more scene detail and perhaps even include some phrases of dialogue that the head writer wanted to feature in the scenes.   

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Bill Bell was enthused about this story but he seemed to lose interest and  it never came to much.

Luan was a  passive character who was really brought on as a plot device, only to die a noble death.

Keemo was the angry young man but never went much beyond that.

I wasn't particularly enamored of either performer but the writing didn't help.

I can see why PB didn't like the story as Jack seemed to turn into Cliff Warner and I don't think he wanted an adult son at that stage either.

 

Couldn't agree more.   It was a lot like the "Jessica Blair storyline" a few years earlier.   The Jessica Blair character had AIDS, and as a result, Bill Bell wrote her as nothing more than a long-suffering heroine who went around atoning her head off to everyone and making noble gestures.  She was, by default, a cardboard character, and she was boring as hell.  Luan did pretty much the same thing -- went around making long-suffering, noble gestures and was just dull as dishwater.   Jessica Blair was cursed with a horrid, bratty daughter (Cricket), and Luan was cursed with a horrid, bratty son (Keemo).  I breathed a sigh of relief when the whole thing ended (in both instances), but it's truly kind of bizarre that Keemo hasn't been recast and reintroduced to the storyline (or at least one of his kids).   

Regarding the Y&R bible, Bill Bell goes into great detail about its structure during one of his interviews with the Archive of American Television.   He describes it as being "about 62 pages, maybe 72 pages" with the first "third or so" of the material being backstory of the characters.   The middle section contained character profiles.  Roughly "twenty pages, I don't know, maybe twenty-five pages" were story projection for the two years.   He had several copies (approximately 30) which he "passed around" to the network executives, and then "one by one, they finished reading and looked at me blankly, with no idea what they'd just read.   They didn't understand how these few pages could provide a year's worth of storyline.  They didn't understand the genre."   I paraphrased, but that's basically what he said.  

8 hours ago, mikelyons said:

According to an outline by Agnes' Northwestern archive from Episode 10, we finally meet Erica. She has just received her car from her father and drives Tara and Phil home. This could very well be the infamous "Hollywood & Vine" episode, which we may have only seen edited for A DAYTIME TO REMEMBER, not in its unedited state.

 

That actually makes a whole lot more sense than what we've heard before --- that Erica was somehow shoehorned into the premier episode to spout her infamous line.  

What a CUTE old lady!   She's amazing, always has been.  

Yeah, I think Chancellor Industries was (originally) the parent company of a few textile factories when the show started.   A successful little company that made Kay and Phillip wealthy, but not billionaires by any stretch of the imagination.   Prentiss Industries was more vague, and then Newman Enterprises was even vaguer still.  Jabot was the Y&R company that seemed to be the most clearly defined.     

  

19 minutes ago, j swift said:

 I still don't know what they do at Newman to get so rich...

 

I think they write "reports", lol.   They always had these clean desks with some random "report" that they were reading.   And their corporate dialogue always concerned either reading or writing a "report".   

I disagree about Victor Newman.  I know that all over the Internet, people say that "Victor came to Genoa City to work for Kay Chancellor".   I don't remember it that way at all.   

 

The first time I saw Victor Newman on-screen was in February of 1980 when his Rolls Royce had been stolen by a girl named Cathy Bruder who had gone joy-riding.   Brock Reynolds was the public defender assigned to represent the girl in court.   Brock assumed she would be tried as a juvenile, as she was sixteen.   But the owner of the car (Victor Newman), whom neither Brock nor the audience had ever heard of or seen before, wanted the girl tried as an adult.   As we got to "know" Victor, we found out that he was a self-made zillionaire who was the owner of Newman Enterprises.   Months and months later, Kay Thurston asked him to temporarily take over control of Chancellor Industries, because Kay's current husband, hair stylist Derek Thurston, had made a mess of things and had fired George Packard, the man who'd been running the company since Phillip Chancellor's death in 1975.   Victor obligingly ran Chancellor Industries for Kay for a few short months until she could get rid of Derek and hire a new CEO.  

12 hours ago, Cat said:

 

 

 

Back in the day, I thought PB's careful, well-spoken reading of the lines was perfect for Y&R, such as it was back then. Written by Bill Bell and his longtime writing team, the dialogue was classic and erudite. PB's delivery fit that considered style and his WASPy character. I personally could watch old episodes written in this style for hours. They cast a spell over the viewer.

 

 

 

 

The writing -- and the line delivery from most of the cast -- was very stylized, back in the day.   They've definitely lost sight of that trait in the past several years, and it's not an improvement.  

28 minutes ago, soapfan770 said:

 

I too loved Tony and Megan and it seemed for a minute they were going to be Y&R’s next big couple but they were quickly sidelined with the rise of the Glo by Jabot kids.  Some people blamed the recast but I think it was lazy on the show’s half if they couldn’t come up with early 20’s angst. 

 

They didn't even TRY to write for Tony Viscardi after the recast.   How many times did Megan bat her eyes and say, "I can't wait to become Mrs. Tony Viscardi in every possible way?"  Pure cheese.   The only time the writers seemed interested in them was when Tricia kissed Tony and then kicked him and killed him.  There was a lot of potential in all of that, but the show raced through it, preferring to have Megan lament about her Perpetual Virginity.   And Keith --- yeah, I agree, the temporary recast (wasn't his name David Allen Brooks?) had way more charisma than Granville Van Dusen,  although his performances were pretty wooden.    

9 hours ago, will81 said:

 

Also who else thinks the nurse looks similar to K.T Stevens? The woman could have played Vanessa's younger sister for sure

 

That nurse has so MANY of K.T. Stevens's traits that it's almost surreal.  I wonder who on earth the actress is.  

On 3/24/2021 at 1:32 PM, titan1978 said:

I loved Brenda’s Ashley, but Davidson’s has that extra spark, especially in regards to her family dynamics.  Her Ashley has enough bite to take on either version of Jack, Nikki or Victor.  And she was always so great in scenes with Dina, because the betrayal was always right there.

 

Brenda’s was softer, possibly more mature and did not really have that mean side that Eileen’s could sometimes bring out.  I did love her in the role too though!

 

Brenda was a mighty pretty girl, and she exuded a certain WARMTH, like you'd find in a traditional soap opera heroine.   And she ultimately did manage to develop a certain level of sophistication and sarcasm.   But I just never bought her as Ashley Abbott.   She was just too sweet and patient and down to earth.  Nothing like the assertive, elusive "Daddy's Princess" that Eileen had created.   

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Esther gets to appear every so often but Paul seems off limits.

 

I guess Kate Linder is still on some sort of contract that guarantees her some (very small) number of appearances per year.  Doug Davidson, on the other hand, is probably seen as an unnecessary expense, as he has to be paid per appearance.   He whines about it daily on twitter, lol.  

On 12/28/2020 at 4:36 PM, j swift said:

 

 

Additionally I was always intrigued by the cars.  JR always drove cars with the license plate Ewing 3.  I coveted Bobby's convertible Ewing 4 (although I question the historical accuracy of Texas oil men driving foreign cars).  But, for some reason, Sue Ellen drove Ewing 2 until the final season when Miss Ellie drove her car with the license Ewing 2 to Carter McKay's ranch.  Lucy was Ewing 5, and Pam was Ewing 6 (perhaps the divorce and change of plates was the precursor for her fatal run-in with a truck).  However, they lived on a ranch that clearly only had a two car garage which meant that someone was always parking in the motor court next to the patio (maybe when your family is in oil, you don't worry about a little carbon monoxide getting in your breakfast?).

 

 

 

And the parking in front of the garage is tight & awkward, especially for large cars like Jock Ewing's Mark V and Sue Ellen's Mercury wagon.    On TV, it looks like a pretty spacious parking area, but actually there's a very sharp turn to get to the garage.   That's why we often see them drive up catty-whompus on the show, although at the opening of each episode, the cars are neatly arranged facing the little garage.  

Exactly.   How could it NOT be mentioned?   I was in the "vault" last night watching an episode from 1981 in which Kay Chancellor (age 53) was planning to marry Jerry Cashman (age 33).  She told Liz Foster, "He makes me HAPPY!"  Liz said, "Don't you think you could be happy with someone a little closer to your own age, Mrs. Chancellor?!"    But we're supposed to pretend not to notice that Jack Abbott is social security aged, and his little friend ain't.  

With clever writing, quirky characters, and a "film noir" look about it, you just can't help but think "Edge of Night" could always be a jackpot.  

On 3/17/2021 at 4:19 PM, RavenWhitney said:

Because head writer, Lee Sheldon, was incompetent.  

 

I have to agree with that.   It was hard to get excited about a mystery writer who named sisters "Liz" and "Beth".  lol.  

It's hard to talk about cue cards or teleprompters without mentioning how much soap writing has changed in the past thirty years.   In the old days, soap actors were often asked to perform scenes that ran four, five, maybe six minutes, with only two actors in the scene.   That amounted to pages and pages of dialogue, and as some have noted, speeches were constantly being rewritten if the episode ran long, or if the episode ran short during dress rehearsal.   So if I've stayed up half the night memorizing ten pages of dialogue for a long scene, and then suddenly just before taping the entire scene is reworked, it's going to confuse me, and I'm apt to screw it up if I don't have a visual aid to glance toward that reminds me of the changes.  

 

That doesn't happen anymore.   Each episode has more scenes now, and the scenes tend to be choppier and less dialogue-laden.   In today's prologue on Y&R, Sharon and Nate had a scene.  She had literally two lines of dialogue, and Nate had two lines.   How long does it take to memorize two lines?  Less than a minute for most of us.  We would just glance at the script quickly five minutes before taping, go out onto the sound stage, say the two lines, then forget about it entirely, and concentrate on our next two-line scene.   With the scenes being shorter, with minimal lines per scene, cue cards just ain't very necessary anymore.   

2 hours ago, robbwolff said:

 

 

A lot of people forget that Edge ended with a second Olympics cliffhanger: the arrival of Marcia Cross as Liz Correll, who showed up in Derek Mallory's office with human bones. I thought it was a brilliant way to introduce a new intriguing character and mystery.

 

The biggest "mystery" of that storyline to me was why the parents named one daughter "Liz" and another daughter "Beth".   Were BOTH of them named Elizabeth?   

On 3/14/2021 at 11:27 AM, RavenWhitney said:

Tony Scott was in contract negotiations and quit. Terry Davis became pregnant.  The writer's strike also happened at the same time.  Slesar may not have been the one making the Emily decision.  Lois Kibbee and Lori Durbrow were writing the strike episodes using Henry's bible with Erwin Nicholson supervising. This info came to me when I met Ernie Townsend in NY years later and I asked him who wrote the show during the strike.  He told me.  He was so hot in person. And loved gossiping. He said Henry had full power over most stories, that ABC didn't really interfere. It was P&G who tinkered with plot and casting but that Henry/Erwin had a lot more control than P&G gave other shows.  

 

Yeah, I think the show went into a decline when Tony Craig, Terry Davis, Jayne Bentzen, Joe Lambie, and Frances Fisher all left within such a short period of time, including a writer's strike in the midst of it all.   Henry Slesar was clearly the "brains" behind keeping EON on-track, and without his daily input, the pacing suffered.   Yes, we got "The Schuyler & Raven Show" for a while (and that was indeed an interesting storyline), but I never felt like it was enough to build an entire 30-minute serial around.   

Some folks enjoy seeing these "character appearances" lists, over a period of a month or a year.   I recently re-watched episodes #6051 - #6380, which cover the Summer of 1979, through early November of 1980.   I jotted down how many times the contract characters (and a few of the recurring ones) appeared over those 330 episodes.   The storylines covered are the "Tobias Gang", "Mansion of the Damned", "Margo Dorn's Murder", "Kirk Michaels & the Crazy Girl", "Nadine Drinks the Tea", and the beginning of the "Clown Puppet".  Here's how many times everyone appeared:

 

#1  APRIL SCOTT -- 223 episodes

Henry Slesar clearly loved Terry Davis.  This girl rarely got a day off. 

April Scott was at the "heart" of ALL these storylines, and I think the show suffered terribly when she left in 1981.   

 

#2  DRAPER SCOTT -- 216 episodes

Same as above.  Henry Slesar seemed to love Tony Craig.

His exit in 1981 left a great big hero-gap, right in the center of the show.

 

#3  LOGAN SWIFT -- 187 episodes

Another big loss to the show in 1981.

 

#4  DEBORAH SAXON -- 182 episodes

Yet another terrible loss in 1981. 

She would've probably had even more than 182 episodes, but Denny Albee's exit left her high & dry for several months.  

 

#5  NICOLE DRAKE CAVANAUGH  -- 164 episodes

Jayne Bentzen's exit was yet another loss for 1981.  

 

#6  MILES CAVANAUGH -- 160 episodes

He got a lot of mileage during the "Nola poisons the water cooler" storyline in late 1979 and early 1980.  

 

#7  ELIOT DORN -- 156 episodes

Was used very heavily until a Clown Puppet stabbed him in October of 1980.  

 

#8  RAVEN ALEXANDER JAMISON SWIFT -- 147 episodes

She would've probably come in at #3, had she not taken a leave of absence for 107 episodes.

She left at #6095 and returned at #6202.  

 

#9  NANCY KARR -- 122 episodes

Except for a brief interlude with a drug pusher, she mainly fretted about Draper Scott & Kelly McGrath.  

 

#10  MIKE KARR -- 121 episodes

100% supporting character, who delivered good courtroom appearances and fretted about Draper.  

 

#11  DEREK MALLORY -- 114 episodes

A brand new character who got a LOT of airtime.  

Strangely his first several episodes previewed the return of his ex-wife "Ivey", who ultimately never materialized.

 

#12  EMILY MICHAELS -- 107 episodes

Didn't appear until early 1980, but was attached to Draper, so she ended up in the center of the action.  

 

#13  STEVE GUTHRIE -- 107 episodes

Used practically daily, until his sudden (and unfortunate) exit in 1980.  

 

#14  CALVIN STONER -- 102 episodes

Steady & consistent throughout the 18 month period

 

#15  NOLA MADISON -- 101 episodes

Short-term, entertaining character, who was used practically daily during her contract

 

#16  CLIFF NELSON -- 85 episodes

Used sparingly at first, but once he joined Karr & Scott was used regularly

 

#17  GERALDINE SAXON -- 79 episodes

Rarely used, until she inexplicably became station manager of WMON TV.  

 

#18  MOLLY SHERWOOD -- 75 episodes

Arrived with Emily Michaels in early 1980, and by working for April & Draper, and being a villainess in a major storyline, racked up a great number of appearances.

 

#19  OWEN MADISON -- 73 episodes

By being in-between Kim Hunter & Frances Fisher, got a lot of episodes prior to Kim Hunter's exit. 

 

#20  MARGO HUNTINGTON DORN -- 71 episodes

A major driver of storyline up until her death in early 1980.

 

#21  KELLY MCGRATH -- 64 episodes

Floundered while played by Joey Alan Phipps, but became a young lead once he was recast

 

#22  PAIGE MADISON -- 60 episodes

Margaret Colin was used almost daily during the Tobias story and Mansion of the Damned, but then was moved to As the World Turns. 

 

#23  JODY TRAVIS -- 59 episodes

Arrived like gangbusters in the summer of 1980 as part of the Kelly/Jody/Gavin triangle.  

 

#24  BRIAN MADISON -- 54 episodes

I didn't find him very impressive -- mainly whined about Paige.

I was sorry when Paige left, but wasn't sorry to see Brian go.  

 

#25  GAVIN WYLIE -- 35 episodes

Introduced the Dance Studio to the show in the summer of 1980

 

#26  MICKEY DIALS/TOBIAS -- 25 episodes

To me, everything about this strange character was entertaining, all the way up to his death.

 

#27  NADINE ALEXANDER SCOTT -- 16 episodes

Recurring character, who drove a lot of storyline, for Raven, April, Draper, & Molly Sherwood.  

 

#28  STAR WILSON STONER -- 13 episodes

Recurring.  I'll always believe they missed the boat in not using the cute, personable Yahee in more episodes.  

 

#29  WILLARD MASEFIELD -- 10 episodes

This old guy appeared with the contract actors, but was only used as the lead actor in the "Mansion of the Damned" movie.  

 

#30  MARTINE DUVAL -- 9 episodes

Appeared as a dancer in late 1980, and gosh she was pretty!

 

#31  BILL MARCEAU -- 9 episodes

Ditched in late 1979 after only limited, sporadic appearances

 

#32  CHRIS RAFFERTY -- 9 episodes

I'd forgotten him.  He was signed to a contract as the young lead in "Mansion of the Damned", was barely used, and disappeared once the movie had been filmed.  

 

#33  MATT SHARKEY -- 7 episodes

Chris Goutman & some temporary replacement.  Used only in the psych ward where Emily Michaels was incarcerated, but would ultimately move to the Bryson Clinic. 

 

#34  SCHUYLER WHITNEY/JEFFERSON BROWN -- 4 episodes

Appeared with Martine Duval near the end of 1980, and would of course ultimately become a lead.

 

#35  ANSEL SCOTT -- 2 episodes

I was expecting him to play a bigger part in Nadine's death and Raven's affairs, but -- well, he didn't.  He just appeared on the phone a couple of times with Draper, Raven & the police.   

 

 

 

 

  

I'm sure every TV show has had its dumb moments.   But I remember trying to watch an episode of "General Hospital" one day in the early 1980s.   There was a scene with Demi Moore's Jackie Templeton character, awaiting an important phone call, standing alone in the room, staring at the phone and saying, "Ring, dammit, ring!"  I laughed like a hyena.  Who in the world stares at a phone and says out loud, "Ring, dammit, ring!"   The whole episode had some of the worst writing imaginable, but that poor girl's soliloquy to the telephone was horrendous.   

On 2/12/2021 at 10:12 AM, SoapDope said:

 

 

Y&R.....Wasn't there some sort of storyline with Jonas and Lucas saving orphans in South America that was dropped ? There was also the unexplained conclusion of Liz Foster's marriage to Stuart Brooks.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like the "Orphans in San Leandro" came to a conclusion of sorts.  The whole premise seemed to be creating an environment in which Lucas Prentiss would send a Prentiss Industries jet to the island of San Leandro, and Jonas would ride with him on the plane.  Leslie Brooks (wearing a blonde wig and calling herself "Pris") would stowaway on the jet, and this would be the mechanism that would bring Lucas, Jonas, and Leslie all face to face for the first time. 

 

I agree there was no conclusion to the Liz Foster/Stuart Brooks separation.  Not even the writers seemed to know the answer to that one.  When Liz came back to the show for a few episodes in 1986 after Jill's shooting, Bill Bell seemed to tip-toe around the subject.  Later, when Liz returned in the early 2000s, Kay Alden clearly had no idea whatsoever.   Juliana McCarthy was billed in some episodes as "Elizabeth Foster Brooks" and in other episodes as "Liz Foster".