Broderick

13 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 

What do posters think of Judith Baldwin as Beth? How long did she last? Nancy Burnett was much less glamorous and the Eric/Beth story took aback seat. Were they originally hinted as getting back together?

 

I like her.  Judith Baldwin's Beth character seems down to earth, but sort of innately sad.  Yes, there are hints that Eric will ditch Stephanie and reunite with her.  When Beth caters a party for the Forresters, she's hurt that Eric doesn't appear to recognize her.  Later in the episode we see Eric wondering to himself, "Why did that caterer seem so familiar?"  In the same episode, Stephanie is a bitch on wheels, blissfully unaware that Eric would drop her like a hot potato if he realized the caterer was his beloved Elizabeth Henderson.  But it's more complicated, of course, with the backstory having already been laid-out that Stephanie's daddy had plenty of money, and Eric owes his current career to Mister Douglas's financial backing. 

When the episodes first aired in 1987, I didn't get much enjoyment from the Logans, who seemed like cheap knock-offs of the Fosters on Y&R.  But re-watching now, I really enjoy Ethan Wayne's Storm character (aside from his silly name) and Carrie Mitchum's Donna character.   Brooke is awfully pretty.  Katie is still as dull as ever.  The storyline involving Katie and her acne, her love for Rocco, and her semi-rivalry with Donna is FAR too reminiscent of Traci Abbott's weight issues, Danny Romalotti, and Lauren Fenmore, which had aired only four years earlier on another show.     

I wish I could remember more of Patrick Horgan's run on "Edge" in 1976 and 1977.  The stories that Ansel Scott had then  -- defending Tony Saxon, marrying Nadine Alexander for her money, belittling his son Draper, courting Nadine's daughter Raven -- all seem to be right in Patrick Horgan's wheelhouse.  lol.  

I like that guy!  He's funny.  And it's amazing how he can be sophisticated and refined, but smarmy at the same time.  

3 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

You just neatly described his nearly four-year stint as Dr. John Morrison on The Doctors perfectly. Do you have the specific airdate for the 1983 episode? I'd love to see it.

lol.  Ansel Scott (Horgan) appeared for a brief reprise of his role on 2/16/1983.   He schools Ian Devereaux at the 1:18:59 mark. 

In one of Lee Sheldon's first episodes, the Preacher Emerson character delivers this long speech about his father (Del Emerson) conducting a wedding of "gator wrestlers" on the "Florida/Louisiana border".   Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it's about 175 miles from extreme western Florida to extreme eastern Louisiana.  There's two entire Gulf States (Alabama and Mississippi) in between Florida and Louisiana.  Lee Sheldon was too stupid (or lazy) to look at a map and see that there's no such thing as a Florida/Louisiana border.  It's just scene after scene of complete nonsense that doesn't advance the plot, doesn't make any sense, and completely fails at being humorous.  I've never seen anything like it.  

27 minutes ago, Vee said:

I thought the idea of that subliminal messages story was pretty cool. It's a shame it apparently didn't turn out well.

Sheldon had his moments for sure.  I think the subliminal messages could've been effective, but as you noted, he bungled it.  The "Alice in Wonderland" sequence at the end of the show was probably somewhat stupid, but was an effective way to conclude a mystery show.  It was just his day-to-day plotting, scene structure, "humor" and dialogue -- yikes!  

I don't know about the Facebook post, but several sources have subsequently reported Patrick Horgan's death.  I went to YouTube and watched his final "Edge" appearance as Ansel Scott in early 1983, when he told Ian Devereaux, "I'm sorry, my dear boy, but I'm alive and well and haven't heard from Raven in the past three years."  He was mighty suave, urbane, and sleazy in his scene.  lol.  

While I was at it, I made the TRAGIC MISTAKE of re-watching the transition from Henry Slesar to Lee Sheldon in late May/early June of 1983.  Gosh, it's immediately horrible.  It's the worst short-term deterioration of a soap that I've ever seen.  (Viewers who saw the shaky hand-held camera transition to Peapack on "Guiding Light" might disagree!) 

My siblings and I were teenagers in the summer of 1983, and I can remember watching an episode of "Edge" that left us all cringing at how amateurish and thrown-together it looked.  We joked that it appeared Henry Slesar had allowed his ten-year old nephew to write it.  The scenes were sloppy and disjointed, most of the dialogue seemed utterly pointless, all the sequences were  short and haphazard, and the majority of the scenes were underscored with cheesy, outdated music that completely worked AGAINST the mood being set by the (childlike) dialogue.  We just couldn't believe what we were seeing.  Our beloved, sophisticated, witty "film noir" show had suddenly, overnight, degenerated into the crappiest piece of mundane garbage we'd ever seen on television.  At the end of the episode, the credits rolled, and it said "written by Lee Sheldon".    I remember shaking my head and saying, "It's evidently a writer's strike, and this poor guy is the best they could find on short notice."

I've been thinking I maybe misjudged him.  Perhaps he wasn't as awkwardly bad as I'd remembered.  He was.  You can tell Slesar's final episode and Sheldon's first episode without even watching the credits.  It's plumb awful.  

Y&R's character "Pam Warren", a hooker in the syndicate storyline in the very early 1980s, was played by Kristine DeBell, who'd done some X-rated work in the 1970s using the same stage name that she used on Y&R.   Wade Nichols/Dennis Parker from "Edge of Night" was fairly well-known in heterosexual porn in the 1970s also, but when you do an internet search for him these days, the film that normally pops-up first ("Boynapped") doesn't appear to be from that particular genre. lol.   

In that particular video, the line between "porn actor" and "disco star" becomes extremely thin, lol.  

I figured he was fired.   Next on the chopping block was Bill Marceau, to bring in a young porn actor as the police chief.  lol.  

I'd always assumed he was fired.  But in 1984, he told the Washington Post that he'd quit, because he'd been on the show ten years and felt that "I'd said all I had to say".  

After 10 years as a leading character on one of daytime television's longest-running shows, Donald May quit.

"I thought I'd said all I could say," he said. What next?

"Then I bought a TV set. I looked at nighttime TV. It had changed dramatically. I didn't see a whole hell of a lot that I wanted to do. I came to the conclusion there was more to be said on a soap opera -- nothing profound, simply a running commentary on the human condition."

For 10 years, Donald May made his running commentary in the role of Adam Drake, a crusading attorney in "Edge of Night," a soap opera that traditionally has emphasized corruption and crime-busting even more than romance. Now, after a turn in the short-lived "Texas" soap and a hiatus spent producing and directing stage plays in California, he's back in New York and back in a soap, the equally long- running "As the World Turns."

6 minutes ago, j swift said:

Given that Draper married April and got a house in Oakdale and a penthouse in the deal, one could say that the apple didn't fall far from the tree.  However, I'm pretty sure Draper's eye never wondered, and he would have been willing to give up the penthouse if it meant that he wasn't accused of Margo's murder.

Right.  Draper thought April was poor when he started dating her.   She was supposedly a little orphan girl with no mother.  But surprise!  She got Margo!  Draper's problem was that he ended up with a mother-in-law who kept forcing him to take things he didn't want. lol.  

14 minutes ago, j swift said:

I feel like such a sexist pig for thinking that Ansel had all of the money from the Saxon case, that I forgot that Nadine had her own supply.

The dates that you mention for the recast track with the YT availability of episodes because I think most of the episodes were posted to facilitate a re-watch with Ms. Gabet through her Facebook account, which is why there is so little of Ms. Clay's material available.

What do you make of Nadine saying to Raven during her affair with Ansel that her father never wanted her, and then seemly contradicting herself on the day of her death by suggesting that Raven's father was too attentive?

I smiled in watching Nadine's final scene over two nonsensical details: (1) she would drive herself to the airport, everybody knows that after a fight with Raven you should never drive yourself to the Monticello airport, just ask Kevin Jamison, and (2) that she would have rented a brown hatchback as shown at the end of the episode.

Yes, Ansel was strictly a leech.   Although he was an attorney, he tended to squander his money on girls, and he married Mrs. Nadine Alexander to refresh his coffers.  There's a funny scene featuring Ansel, shortly after Nadine's death.  He reveals what he individually received from Nadine's will -- it was one vase, or something like that -- and there's a young girl crawling all over him while he's discussing it.  

I found Nadine's choice of rental cars pretty strange.   As a car guru, I remember thinking when the scene first aired, "Surely that's not really her rental car!"  lol.  Seems like it was a Ford Tornio, or maybe even a Pinto.  

I wish I could remember the 1977 scene more clearly.  My own impression of it was that Raven was blaming Nadine for Mr. Alexander's untimely demise, and Nadine shot back that he'd never wanted any children in the first place.  If that's the case, it's probably not inconsistent with the 1980 scene.  In the 1980 scene, Raven is whining about how attentive her father was and how aloof Nadine was.  Just because Mr. Alexander didn't specifically want children probably wouldn't prevent him from being overly-attentive once his daughter was born.  

1 hour ago, amybrickwallace said:

How much of any of this did Sharon Gabet actually play? I can see why she was so enthusiastic about those early years, because Raven was so horrible.

The first girl (Juanin Clay) was around for about a year, and the actress actually married Joe Lambie who played Logan.   Juanin Clay was in the role for the Nadine/Ansel/Raven triangle, and for the beginning of the Kevin/Raven/Logan situation.  Sharon Gabet came along sometime in 1977, to make Logan's life miserable and to torment Draper's new girlfriend (April).     

6 hours ago, j swift said:

 

MAY 9 - 14, 1977:
Nadine confronted Raven about her affair with Ansel, and when Raven blamed her for taking away Raven's father when she was a child, Nadine stunned her with the news that he didn't want her.

It is interesting because there is a minor contradiction in Nadine's final scene three years later in 1980.  Raven talks about her memories of her father being over attentive in response to Nadine's neglect and Nadine says that he loved her too much.  I couldn't figure out from the 1977 recap if Mr. Alexander abandoned them, or died, and in which order?  But, it cleared things up for me because I had always assumed that Draper and Raven were raised as stepsiblings, so their flirtation seemed gross, yet now I see they didn't meet until they were adults and before their parent's marriage.

When Raven left Jamey with April, she intimates that she's going to London because she knows Ansel will care for her financially, which is a little weird to say to Draper, his son.  It is also interesting that Ansel left such a large amount of money to Jamey, given that he was only married to Nadine for two years, and Raven lied that Draper was his father.  Also, Draper doesn't appear to have gotten any money in the will.  Then, when Nadine dies, Raven doesn't seem to inherit any money from her mother, but Jamey's trust is still in tact.

 

We saw Nicole and Adam's son (Adam) from time to time.  During the late 1970s and early 1980s, Nicole was the anchorperson for WMON-TV, and Miles was a physician.  They were both shown as being "busy career people".  As a result, they had a nanny (Mrs. Goodman) who usually hustled Adam off-screen pretty quickly.  But occasionally we'd see Miles and Nicole (or Jody Travis) playing with Adam.  

Kevin Jamison was sterile (rather than impotent).  Geraldine was aware of this fact, but Raven wasn't.  When Logan impregnated Raven, Raven anticipated having no difficulties passing her baby off as Kevin's.  It was Geraldine who broke the news to Raven that Kevin was sterile.  There was talk of a possible abortion, but ultimately Raven decided she would flee to London to mooch off Nadine and Ansel for a while.  Kevin borrowed Draper's car and raced to the airport to intercept Raven before she could board the plane, and Kevin died in a car wreck.  

I was never 100% sure if Mister Alexander and Nadine were married at the time of Mr. Alexander's death.  Nadine's exit scene in 1977 (which I barely remember) left me with the impression that Alexander and Nadine had divorced prior to Mr. Alexander's death.  Nadine's 1980 exit scene (which I remember vividly) left me with the impression that Nadine was still married to him at the time of his death, leaving Nadine as crushed by his death as Raven was. 

Ansel Scott was alive and well in England when "Edge" ended in 1984.

Raven's inheritance had come from her long-dead father, Mr. Alexander.  Mr. Alexander and Nadine were fairly wealthy, and upon the death of Mr. Alexander, Raven had received a small trust fund under his will.  Raven got monthly distributions from the trust, which allowed her to exist without a job.  (She was sort of a Holly Golightly from "Breakfast at Tiffany's" -- morally opposed to holding a job, because she had Daddy's trust fund distributions that paid her rent and grocery bills.)  The REAL MONEY that had belonged to Mr. Alexander -- aside from Raven's little trust fund -- had passed to Mrs. Nadine Alexander.   Raven was always aware that if she ever hoped to be truly wealthy, she would need to get her hands on Nadine's inheritance.  

In about 1976, Draper was summoned to New York City to meet with his father, Ansel Scott.  Draper and Ansel had been somewhat estranged over the years, primarily because Ansel was disappointed that his son was more of a "Mike Karr full-of-integrity-attorney", rather than a cut-throat-snake like himself.  When Draper arrived in NYC, he found that Ansel was engaged to be married.  Ansel's fiancé was Mrs. Nadine Alexander, who hoped that she could facilitate a reconciliation between Ansel and Draper.  In Nadine's eyes, she could offer Raven to Draper, which would help cement her own relationship with Ansel. 

Ansel ended up coming to Monticello to defend Tony Saxon in a criminal trial.  Draper was on the prosecution team, pitting Ansel and Draper against each other in the courtroom.  No father/son reconciliation was in the cards, although Draper learned to have a certain respect for Ansel as an attorney, and Ansel likewise developed a (small amount of) respect for Draper.  Nadine and Raven came along to Monticello, as well, and they stayed with Geraldine, who it turned out had been friends with Nadine Alexander for decades.   

Ansel Scott was sexually attracted to the nubile young Raven.  Ansel was FINANCIALLY attracted to Nadine, because Nadine was the holder of the purse strings, having inherited the majority of Mr. Alexander's wealth.  (Ansel was perpetually in need of money.) To get his hands on Raven for sexual purposes, Ansel would need to forego marrying Nadine.  To get his hands on Mr. Alexander's millions, Ansel would need to marry Nadine and forego having sex with Raven.   As a result, Ansel was perpetually trying to sabotage any budding relationship between Draper and Raven, so that he could have Raven for himself, but he was acutely aware that if he were caught with Raven, he'd be unable to marry Nadine. 

Draper became aware of what was going on, and he dropped Raven pretty quickly.  Draper never had any use for Raven thereafter.    

Nadine and Ansel ultimately married, and they moved to London after the Tony Saxon trial.  Their marriage wasn't a happy one, and Ansel continued to stray with young starlets and models. 

Raven dumped her son (Jamey) on Draper and April permanently, and went for an extended trip to visit Nadine and Ansel in London.  This trip reignited all the tensions, as Raven and Ansel had dinner alone together several times in London, while Nadine was out of town.  In retaliation, Nadine changed her will, leaving all her millions to Jamey, and absolutely nothing to Ansel or Raven.  As it happened, Raven had lunch with a young attorney who worked in the London law firm that drafted Nadine's new will, and Raven learned from the chattering attorney that Jamey was the sole beneficiary of all Nadine's millions.  This news sent Raven scampering hurriedly back to Monticello to pry Jamey away from Draper and April, so that she could be the administrator of Jamey's future millions.  To Raven's horror, Draper and April had returned Jamey to his father (Logan), which meant that Logan Swift would be administering Nadine's fortune if Nadine passed away.  Raven herself would be left with nothing more than small distributions from the trust her father had left her; the BIG MONEY would be in the hands of Logan and Jamey.  This led to a big custody suit between Logan and Raven.  Of course, Logan simply wanted custody of his son because he loved him; he had no clue that Jamey was on the cusp of inheriting all of Nadine Alexander's money.  Raven, though, was perfectly aware of the financial benefits of having custody of Jamey. 

In a strange series of accidental events, Nadine of course did ultimately die in 1980.  Ansel Scott, her husband, received nothing under Nadine's will.  Raven also received nothing.  Jamey got it all.  Raven was proud of herself, thinking that as the custodial parent, she'd be making all of Jamey's spending decisions for the next twenty-one years.  She referred to him as her little million dollar baby.  But unfortunately for Raven, it became clear that she'd perjured herself to get custody of Jamey, and custody ultimately went to Logan.           

My recollection is that Logan had political ambitions, and Geraldine was keen on "sponsoring" politicians, as she'd done with her sons and with Kevin Jamison.   Logan was sort of a "distant conquest" for her.  He didn't actually move in right away; that only occurred after he gained full custody of Jamey.  He found himself having to hire an arsenal of babysitters, and Geraldine said, "Why don't you and Jamey just move in with me?" So he did.  

I don't believe he really had a madonna/whore complex.  Rather, he stumbled into the Raven Trap before he realized how "terrible" she was.  Once he and Draper became closer friends, and he began spending time with Draper and April, he appreciated more that a man could have a decent partner.  And then of course when Draper was presumed dead, Logan comforted April and fell in love with her.  By then, he'd long since washed his hands of Charlotte's Web.  

I wish I could recall more about Nadine Alexander Scott's initial exit in 1977.  "French Fan" has been posting detailed summaries of the 1977 storylines, but there's no real mention of Ansel and Nadine moving to England.  According to the summaries, the Tony Saxon criminal case ended, Ansel Scott collected a big check, learned he'd lost his position in New York, dallied with Raven, married Nadine (who was wise to the fact that Raven was flirting with Ansel).   Then suddenly there was no more mention of Ansel and Nadine.  Clearly they'd moved to London, but it's not specifically mentioned in the summaries.  But there IS a detailed recap of a 1977 scene in which Nadine accuses Raven of "always going after her men", and Raven begrudgingly admits it's because Nadine "took my father away from me".  Nadine basically explains to Raven that "your father never really wanted you, Raven.  I didn't take him away from you; he just didn't want you.  It's that simple", and that's a scene that I'd really like to see.   

2 hours ago, victoria foxton said:

 

 

Wow!  Just crazy.  Hmmm!  

6 minutes ago, Mitch said:

I do think it odd..I mean wouldn't cost more to send people out....but I also always wondered why soaps didn't do that even when they had budgets...seeing someone on a fake park bench with an obvious backdrop when you can go on the street to film that.

 

I suppose it's pretty cheap to send a couple of cast members outside, with a director, a production assistant, a sound person, and a hand-held camera.  But it seems as though it'd be even cheaper (with today's technology) to invest in a couple of fairly realistic trees.  I just had a lot of questions about that segment of the interview; Locher didn't though.  lol.  

9 minutes ago, Faulkner said:

Billy Miller also had a man-child innocence that was right on the surface. Jason Thompson doesn’t have that same vulnerability, even though Billy is still extraordinarily immature. (I don’t know what they were thinking with Burgess Jenkins, who looked like Peter Bergman’s contemporary.)

Y&R has an adult-male problem and has for many, many years. All of the dudes feel a bit “arrested development.” Remember when Cane, Billy, and Nick were all “finding themselves” at the same time during the SSM/Mal Young days?

Yeah, Billy Miller actually had a RESTLESSNESS about him, even if he could be awfully annoying at times.   Jason is so much more stoic, staid, unadventurous.  It's difficult sometimes to accept him as a more matured version of Miller's character.   Burgess Jenkins.  Yikes.  lol.    

15 hours ago, FrenchBug82 said:

That's my problem with JT as Billy: his performance is utterly joyless.

I didn't always like what BM was doing and I understand why people might find his acting style annoying but at least I was watching someone act his a** out and really that should be the minimum I expect of him. 

 

Same here.  Billy Miller often got on my last nerve with that Cheshire cat grin and all those strange tics, but he looked as though he was trying to make the character stand out (for better or for worse).  Jason Thompson sometimes seems to be performing at gunpoint.  "I'll deliver these lines if I must, but it's because my captor is forcing me to."     

2 hours ago, Mitch said:

I agree..the show was so simple to write and produce.. No desert islands, no stolen jewels, no aging clinics no weird pilots stuck on the island..no horse poisioning...

 

Goutman also mentioned going on those "inconsistent remotes" because they couldn't afford to "rent a tree". 

"Dark Shadows" was never BIG-BUDGET, but they had a zillion "trees" in their studio, most of them being branches glued to music stands or something.  Those little kids on Dark Shadows could get lost in the "woods" and wander around all night, without ever leaving the studio.   It didn't look spectacular (obviously) but it set the atmosphere in a somewhat believable manner.  I was hoping Goutman would expand a bit more on the cost of "renting a tree" versus going on a remote, and if they simply didn't have the backstage personnel to figure out how to improvise with the props they already had.   

32 minutes ago, YRfan23 said:

I just want to know what the scripts said to indicate the time? Did they just right down “we are ignoring the time it can be any day for the characters??” Haha 

Years ago, on some message board, we were writing parody scripts for Y&R.  My "contribution" was an episode in which Kay Chancellor threw an elaborate, impromptu, late-night costume ball.  Everyone dressed spontaneously and appeared in full regalia -- except Sharon and Nick, who were feeding Cassie breakfast and helping her get ready for the school bus.  lol.  It was the only way I knew to parody those strange Time Warps that permeated Bell's scripts.  

On 9/26/2021 at 6:01 AM, will81 said:

Y&R often had issue remembering what time of day it was. Some scenes in the same episode would take place at different times of the day/night. This was supposedly only an issue in the 90's but I am sure I remembering it hapening in the 80's eps as well. 

Yep, always!   And time would move at different speeds for different storylines.   Lorie and Lance might have a candlelight dinner in the Allegro.  Meanwhile, Kay Chancellor might ask her attorney to mail her a transcript from court.   In the next episode, Kay would be opening her mail and finding the transcript -- indicating an entire day has passed at her house -- but Lorie and Lance are still having their same conversation, in their same clothes, in the same restaurant -- indicating time stood still for them.  lol.    

There was a sequence about demographics, and Goutman indicated they'd tried to focus on "younger performers" to get more 18 to 49 year-old viewers (at the expense of screen time for the show's vets).  I would've asked, "Is there is a STUDY showing that younger viewers are only interested in younger performers, or is this merely an industry BELIEF?  Where did this theory originate? Can you elaborate on that?"   That's a question which can be asked without hostility or anger, just a simple conversational question.  But Locher passed on the follow-up. 

Also, Goutman mentioned that vets sometimes weren't utilized for "budgetary reasons".  Why's that?  Did they have guarantees of one episode per month, and anything in excess of that was a budgetary problem?  Were the veterans being paid on a per-episode basis?  I would've asked that. 

Same thing about the complaints after the "third kiss" of the same-sex couple.  "Why the complaints?  Did the third kiss follow too quickly after the second?  Was the third kiss too explicit?  Or was there simply a two-kiss limit established by P&G or by CBS? "  Nothing.  Just, "Wow. Ok.  People in the Midwest and the South might have a problem with that.  That's crazy." 

The follow-ups (or lack thereof) were AWFULLY frustrating and ruined what could've potentially been an enlightening interview.    

The Goutman interview wasn't bad.  (Sometimes it's interesting to hear from a person who's universally reviled, lol.)  But the dude asking the questions was horrid.  He didn't seem capable of asking even the most fundamental follow-up questions.   Goutman mentioned that CBS and P&G had "differing views about some issues".   Most interviewers would then ask, "Which issues?  Can you elaborate?", or something to that effect.  Locher said, "Oh, so they didn't play nice in the sandbox.  Wow.  Crazy.  Hmmm", or something, and just let it go.  He did that with 90% of the questions, as though he didn't even listen to Goutman's response.