Broderick

I think Caroline's too good for anyone else on the show.  Ridge is garbage, Thorne's a wuss, her dad's mean, and her "best friend" is a tramp.  

3 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Y&R's management of the budget seems suspect, although Days extreme taping schedule must make a big difference.

One reason Y&R likely looks so wretched is that we're accustomed to something so much better.  (The bigger they are, the harder they fall.)  

4 hours ago, Videnbas said:

This may seem a random question, but... is anyone else here interested in opera?

I remember a discussion a while back about character archetypes in B&B, and the other night when I was watching clips of Mozart's opera Don Giovanni (Don Juan), it suddenly hit me.

Early B&B of 1987-1988 features EVERY SINGLE ONE of the characters in Don Giovanni.

Don Giovanni (high social status, playboy, arrogant, charming, keeps a list of women in a little book) - Ridge
Leporello (low social status, employed by Don Giovanni, loyal to his boss but dreams of being his equal in status, knows about the little book) - Rocco
Donna Elvira (was seduced by Don Giovanni and then dumped by him, is fiercely bitter but still attracted to him) - Margo
Donna Anna (high social status, Don Giovanni snuck into her room at night and seduced her, it is unclear if this was with or without her consent) - Caroline
The Commendatore (high social status, Donna Anna's father, very protective of his daughter, Don Giovanni's nemesis) - Bill Spencer
Don Ottavio (high social status, Donna Anna's fiancé, loyal, gentle and supportive of her) - Thorne
Zerlina (low social status, starts out as a happily engaged and innocent young girl but is seduced by Don Giovanni and dumps her fiancé in order to be with him) - Brooke
Masetto (low social status, decent man who gets dumped by his fiancée because of her fascination for the attractive and rich Don Giovanni) - Dave

Of course, the opera has a different story, but the characters and several plot points are very similar. This is probably not intentional, but it's interesting nevertheless because it proves the archetypal nature of the early B&B characters.

If Rocco ever sings "Night & Day, I Slave Away" while Ridge seduces Caroline, we'll know they copied, lol.  (Ridge does seem pretty closely modeled on Don Juan.) 

1 hour ago, Manny said:

Question... In the vault, there is an episode listed as December 1975. It features John McCook as Lance. However, several places that I looked online, I saw that John McCook did not debut until 1976. 

So does anyone know if the date on this episode is correct then? Should that maybe be December 1976 instead?

If it's the episode in which Mark Henderson finds out the blood types are screwed-up and Lorie's his sister, that's from December of 1975.  (Lorie and Mark were supposed to get married between Xmas and New Years Eve of 1975.)  Is that the episode you're talking about, where Leslie sings "If My Friends Could See Me Now"?  Lance Prentiss first started appearing sometime in the late fall of 1975.  (The copyright date in the closing credits should verify that --- MCMLXXV = 1975.)   

I believe the current Writers Guild of America minimum for a head writer on a 60-minute serial is about $42,500 per week, or approximately $2,200,000 per year. Josh Griffith may earn more than the union minimum.  lol. 

No idea what coddled veteran actors are being paid nowadays.  But we know from court documents (Shattuck v. Moss) how much Ronn Moss, a 25-year veteran, was being paid by "Bold & Beautiful" for the 2011-2012 season ($700,000 per year), and we know how much he was offered (and subsequently turned down) for the 2012-2013 season (a one-year contract valued at $400,000 per year).  We can assume from his offer that salaries declined approximately 3/7, or 42%, from 2011 to 2012 for long-term veteran actors.  Assuming Moss had accepted the 2012-2013 offer of $400,000 and continued to work on the show, and assuming further audience erosion caused a further 25% budget decrease between 2013 and 2022, his $400,000 per year would now be slashed to approximately $300,000 per year. 

Extrapolating Moss's numbers to a 60-minute serial such as Y&R, you could have easily have had a veteran actor making $800,000 per year for the 2011-2012 season.  His/her offer for the 2012-2013 season would've been approximately $460,000, based upon the Ronn Moss contract formula of 3/7 decrease from 2012 to 2013.  Assuming that viewer erosion in the subsequent nine seasons has caused a 25% decrease in salaries from the 2012-2013 season to the 2021-2022 season, that veteran would now be earning approximately $350,000 per year.  So I'd guess the older codgers may still earn somewhere between $300,000 to $500,000 per year.  (The variables, of course, are that traditionally salaries are higher on a one-hour serial than on a 30-minute serial, but the lucrative foreign market of "B&B" might make that particular show's budget more in line with the budget of an hour-long serial.)        

Yeah, the "London Gala" aired in July of 1981, so presumably those scenes were written (and taped) during the Writers Guild strike period.  The sets (which allegedly were repurposed for "Capitol") were likely designed then too, lol.

Another "prominent story" that month (which was a COMPLETE misfire) was that business with Chris Brooks & the furniture, Jane Lewis, and Snapper.   We saw a LOT of the hospital during that storyline, as most of Jane Lewis's relentless and transparent pursuit of Snapper occurred in the hospital.  Additional hospital sets were built, and those sets also seemed to find their way to "Capitol".   

Here's what the Washington DC newspaper said about the premier of "Capitol" in early 1982:  "Capitol involves some elaborate sets built in Hollywood to simulate a Virginia mansion, a Georgetown town house, and a hospital.  John Conboy approached CBS with plans for a daytime serial set in the nation's capital eighteen months ago, and they loved the idea."  

I've no idea whether or not John Conboy actually designed extravagant sets (at William J. Bell's expense) that could be transferred easily to "Capitol", but from a historical standpoint, the answer appears to be that he likely did.  

The writing was all over the map during that timeframe.  We had that weird scene between Lorie and Brooks just before Lorie boarded the plane for London.  ("Oh, Brooks, I suddenly had the strangest feeling that I won't see you again for a long, long time!"  Then she was back in a week, with no mention of that foreboding ever again.)   Greg Foster suddenly developed those awful, migraine headaches that couldn't be explained.  Snapper and Liz worried themselves to death about Greg for about 5 minutes, and then Liz jetted off to London to a ball, and Snapper became 100% involved with furniture, leaving Greg to die.  (This was presumably to make us think Greg, while blacked out with migraines, might be Nikki's Mysterious Stalker.)  This was when Kay Chancellor jetted off to Zurich to consult with plastic surgeons, and then popped back into GC a few weeks later to take Liz to strip shows with no further mention of the plastic surgery trip.  None of it made ANY sense, lol.   It was hard to watch.    

1 hour ago, Paul Raven said:

Thanks Broderick for that analysis. Makes more sense.

Can any eagle eyed viewers recall any new sets ay Y&R during that time that were similar to Capitol?

Was Capitol a even firm go at that point?

The 1981 writers strike. How long was that? What was happening on Y&R at that time ?

We know Bell didn't write long term documents so scab writers had to fly by the seat of their pants. Are there any stories from that time that looked like seemed a bit off?

ALL of the stories from that period seemed a bit off, lol.

The only specific new set I can remember is that ENORMOUS SET that was created for the "London gala" in the late summer of 1981.  (At the time, I assumed that the Colonnade Room had been modified to create that particular set.)  But if Bill Bell is remembering correctly, perhaps that was a specially-built set for the "London gala" storyline, and perhaps it later became the Clegg mansion foyer for "Capitol"?    Y'all will easily recall the set in question.  Lorie comes slinking down the stairs in a gown cut all the way up to crotch, while Kay Chancellor gasps in amazement at her audacity, while Leslie -- the guest of honor -- cringes in horror.  

Here's a "Capitol" promo that appears to feature Y&R's "London Gala" set, just as it had appeared earlier on Y&R:

(It looks as though the Writers Guild Strike ran from April 1981 through July 1981.   The "London Gala" storyline was in July of 1981.)  

15 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Would Conboy and CBS/Screen Gems have had the power to replace the creator and headwriter?

What say would Conboy have had, unless he was using his battles with Bell as evidence that Bill was no longer effective?

I really can't imagine such a scenario. Of course Bill was tucked away in Chicago and Conboy was in L.A and right in the action.

What disagreements could the two have, unless Bill was unhappy with way Conboy was presenting his material?

I know budget was always an issue in daytime, but that would be down to Conboy not Bell. Although Bill may have been writing certain actors above guarantee.

I'd love others take on the situation.

 

I expect the Executive Producer (Conboy) could theoretically have fired the head writer (Bell).  Naturally if that had happened, Bell would've appealed the decision to the show's three owners -- Bell Dramatic Serial Company, Corday Productions, and Columbia Pictures Television.  You'd assume Bell Dramatic Serial Company and Corday Productions would have voted to override the Executive Producer and keep Bell as head writer, lol.  BUT if Conboy had kissed the right tails at Columbia Pictures, supposedly Columbia could have insisted on Bell's termination.  This flexing of Columbia's muscle seemed to be the case when Columbia made the decision to expand Y&R to an hour and told Bell, "We'll do it with or WITHOUT you", indicating that Columbia Pictures/Screen Gems held the unilateral ability to replace Bell as head writer if they chose to.   So the ability of Columbia to override Bell's authority was evidently always an issue that lurked in the background.  

I've got no idea if Conboy ever seriously attempted such a maneuver. 

Bell went on record as saying that their parting was fairly acrimonious.  Bell said that "I'd prefer not to talk about John Conboy", but when pressed, he indicated that Conboy -- during the writer's strike of 1981 -- ordered some fairly elaborate sets for Y&R that were subsequently repurposed for "Capitol", leaving Y&R way overbudget for 1981.  Bell Dramatic Serial Company had to cover its portion of the budget overage, and Bell was clearly angry about it, feeling that Conboy had betrayed him financially. 

I've never seen where John Conboy has said a negative word about Bill Bell (ever).  In fact, Conboy has commented on how "fortunate" he was to work with a "wonderful writer" like Bill Bell. 

You'll notice that after John Conboy left Y&R, Bill Bell always wisely reserved for himself a title of "co-executive producer" or "senior executive producer", so that he'd never be placed in a position where one of his co-workers had authority over him again from a creative (or financial) standpoint .    

4 hours ago, Khan said:

 According to Bell himself -- and this might be the truth, or just hyperbole on his part -- he had resolved at one point that if one more actor decided to leave the show, he would retool the show completely.  Subsequently, when Jaime Lyn Bauer (Lorie) informed him that she was leaving at the end of her contract, that pretty much sealed the fates for the rest of the existing Brookses and Fosters (save, of course, Jill, whom Bell ultimately transitioned into the Abbotts).

I believe it's hyperbole.  Bell is oversimplifying what happened, or he's misremembering.  I know he's said that 1,000 times, but it's not what we saw occur on-screen. 

I think it's more like this.  Bill Bell to Kay Alden:  "You know, Kay, that damn Dennis Cole SUCKS as Lance.  Yes, he was a matinee idol of sorts, but he's simply no good as Lance.  I've learned my lesson from this.  I'm not doing any more major recasts of my little pets.  If my two favorite little Sweet Babies -- David Hasselhoff and Jaime Lyn Bauer --  decide to leave the show, I'm not recasting those two roles.  I'll just write those two characters out, and anyone connected with them can either SINK or SWIM on their own merits."  Sure enough, David Hasselhoff and Jaime Lyn Bauer left permanently, within four or five months of each other.  And sure enough, he didn't recast the parts.  And sure enough, everyone around them was given the opportunity to sink or swim. 

Jill Foster SWAM, by virtue of being in a new storyline that held a great deal of potential.  Greg Foster SANK, as neither Wings Hauser nor Howard McGillan had been terribly effective, going all the way back to like 1978.  Chris Brooks SANK, because Bill Bell held her head under the water and drowned her.  (He clearly couldn't foresee separating her character from the Snapper character, though he clearly toyed with the idea of doing it for a few weeks.)  Peggy Brooks SANK, because she was always just the Kid Sister of the others and not a leading lady in her own right.  (Plus that dreadful Steve Williams character and that tasteless cult storyline dragged her way down.)  Leslie Brooks SANK, because although Victoria Mallory was a capable actress and a good musician, her character had been tied too closely to Lorie for her to survive on her own.  (But Bell tried his best -- in the new opening credits for 1982, he even gave Victoria Mallory and Robert Laurence the "anchor position" as the show's "leads", but they couldn't carry their own storyline, which of course wasn't an especially GOOD storyline anyhow. It was just doomed.)  Tom Ligon (Lucas) SANK because he was a casualty of the Lance recast and Jaime Lyn Bauer's exit; plus he'd been victimized by a pair of wretched storylines.  First, he was stuck in that San Leandro mess with Sebastian Crowne (a dud), Jerry Lacy (a dud) and "Pris" (a dud), and then when he finally came up for air, he was given the thankless job of being the insufferable villain in the Vanessa Prentiss suicide.  "You killed my mother, Lorie, and you're going to PAY for it."  The audience knew what happened to Vanessa, and we knew Lucas was wrong in his assumptions, but he said stated his flimsy case ten thousand times, and it was awful.  (If we'd seen Vanessa's suicide occur from Lucas's standpoint -- instead of from Lauralee's standpoint -- and if we'd only learned the truth of how Vanessa died via flashback during Lorie's trial, perhaps we'd have been more sympathetic to Lucas's point of view during the arrest and the trial.  But we knew he was wrong from the get-go, he was strident as hell about it, and it just made him unlikable.)

That's a complicated explanation for what happened to the various characters in the Brooks/Foster orbit, but I believe that's what actually occurred, and Bill Bell merely oversimplified it by saying, "I wrote them all out when Snapper and Lorie left."  It's easier to say it that way.          

Y'all have hit about everything.  Expanding to an hour exposed every (hidden) weakness in Y&R's foundation, and magnified each of those faults. 

CBS & Screen Gems had allowed Bill Bell to write without outlines and long-term projections, because they trusted his instincts.   He told them, "I don't believe my show will work in the hour format," and suddenly they no longer trusted his instincts; they thought they knew better.  They basically told him, "We're going to an hour with or without you," and he reluctantly agreed to the change.  His screenwriting method (sitting down with his dialogue writer Kay Alden and jotting down an outline at 8:00 in the morning and then immediately writing the script) was fine for the 30-minute format, but he and Kay couldn't write an hour-long show that way.  So they brought in additional writers and stumbled, fumbled, with the very process that had made the show successful.

John Conboy understood the languid, sensual, visual appeal of Y&R.  But evidently his relationship with Bill Bell was somewhat strained and was on the verge of imploding; it couldn't have come at a worse time.  Also there was a fundamental "shallowness" to Conboy that probably no one suspected, because Bell's thoughtful writing was concealing it.  Conboy seemed to believe that writing was secondary to beauty -- just take the bras off the girls and have their breasts jiggle, and you've got yourself a success.  Put a boy in a pair of tight pants, and your ratings will increase.  He was a fool.  It was Bell's writing -- combined with Conboy's visuals -- that made Y&R so successful in the 1970s.  Separate those two things (the writing and the beauty) and the product became less than the sum of its parts.  We quickly saw that happen, right before our eyes, and the entire show unraveled.  It was only when Wes Kenney came along in 1982 that the problem was mitigated. 

Bill Bell was clever enough to realize that Y&R wasn't the Holy Grail of soaps.  It was a product that had benefited from the mistakes of its competitors.  One year Y&R was firmly in 9th place; the following year it was 3rd place.  Screen Gems and CBS cheered and lauded Y&R for its "wildfire ratings success".  There wasn't any wildfire success.  Other shows had expanded to an hour and then floundered, or they'd been given lousy time slots.  Y&R had shot up from #9 to #3 by merely being consistent -- holding its own -- while other shows toppled and failed.   Bell didn't have some "magic bullet", and he knew that; but his employers couldn't see the big picture.  

In my opinion, the Williams family WAS dropped in too quickly, and the Steve Williams character (probably envisioned by Bell as the "moral" son) came across as a sanctimonious jackass/yuppie who was VERY difficult to like; that particular character stymied the Williams family from Day One, damaging Peggy to an extent, and making the (already distasteful) cult storyline virtually unwatchable.  What actually did work was something completely unexpected -- the little "pseudo-family" created at Jonas's restaurant, where Paul, Andy, and Danny Romalotti all worked as waiters.  Those three guys even got their own "family" opening shot in the 1982 credits.  John Conboy proudly crowed, "We put three handsome young guys in white shirts and black pants, and our ratings immediately went up!"  Naw, it worked because Danny and Andy were orphaned characters, and Paul's real brother (Steve) was a disaster.  The audience could sense that the "real storyline" was among these three guys, and we responded to it.  The new core family that worked wasn't the Williams family itself, but the Paul/Andy/Danny relationship, and Bell worked it for years -- dropping Paul and Andy into a detective office with the charismatic Stephanie E. Williams, and casting Danny in the "little brother" role with Patty, then Traci and Lauren, then Cricket. 

It took a LOT of trial and error to find the things that worked, and the things that didn't.  When the show went to an hour, Bill Bell probably never DREAMED that the "pseudo-family" of Victor, Nikki, Kevin and Kay Chancellor would materialize and work, that Paul's actual "brothers" would be a recurring character played by President Ford's son and a kid spotted on "American Bandstand", but there it was and it worked, and these were the things that kept the show going in the right direction until the Abbotts could finally be stabilized as the "new" Brooks family.            

7 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

 

 

I  recall Traci and 'Tiffany' being mentioned but only in the Jerry Douglas era. How much earlier were the family mentioned?

 

Jill and her roommate (Eve Howard) seemed to be under the impression that "Traci & Tiffany" might be coming home for Christmas 1980.  Naturally I assumed they would be as well, but that didn't pan out.  Brett Halsey's John had spoken with Jill about "Traci & Tiffany" on several occasions.  In hindsight, thank heavens Tiffany's debut was delayed by 18 months or so.  By the time Tiffany's moment to appear had arrived, Bill Bell knew that Jaime Lyn Bauer was leaving, and it became obvious that "Tiffany" needed to be re-tooled into a more assertive, aggressive heroine who could fill the void Jaime's exit would create.  I've often wondered how Bell had initially envisioned Tiffany -- probably nothing like the character Eileen Davidson brought to the canvas in the spring of 1982. 

Jeanne Cooper's long absence wasn't explained at all on-screen (that I can remember).  She basically just came back from Felipe's Island, asked Victor to continue overseeing Chancellor Industries, dumped Derek, dumped Douglas, and *poof* vanished after one or two episodes.  No mention of a trip or anything.  (This was sometime in the early months of 1981.)  I don't recall seeing her again until way up in the summertime, when an episode opened with her standing in the living room, examining her wrinkles in the mirror, and deciding that she would engage the new escort service.   Then she took another strange hiatus a few months later, after the London Gala.  She and Cash booked a return trip to Genoa City from London, but she advised him that he would be returning alone, as she'd decided to travel to Zurich to meet with a plastic surgeon.  We didn't see her for several weeks, when she came breezing back in for the Smiley/gambling debt storyline with no follow-up about the Zurich surgeon.   Possibly these exits were inspired by real-life trips to rehab, but obviously the press wasn't anxious to report on that.  I believe they were just described as "vacations" -- "Jeanne Cooper has returned to her role as Kay Thurston following a long vacation".      

Hopefully one day we'll have the opportunity to review these early Jabot scenes with today's knowledge, and we'll be able to understand exactly what was occurring behind the scenes.  My own suspicion is that three things were in play (1) pilot season, (2) the casting of Jack, and (3) Bond's contract status.  

Back in the 1980s, spring was always identified as "pilot season", and actors were often missing from their roles in the spring because they were auditioning for various nighttime pilots.   I believe Brett Halsey was always the designated choice for John Abbott, but he likely had a pilot for a nighttime series (or possibly a movie-of-the-week) on the horizon that was hampering his ability to work on daytime consistently until later in the summer.  Just my guess.  

All kids my age were familiar with Terry Lester from a live-action science-fiction series called "Ark II".  He was a younger actor who was somewhat "in demand" in the late 1970s and early 1980s.  Yes, he'd allegedly auditioned for Snapper Foster, but he did have a certain popularity factor, and it might have taken some special concessions to get him to sign-on as John Junior.  I expect he had some other options besides Y&R, as well.  

Bond Gideon had likely signed a very short-term contract when she initially took over from Miss Dickson -- 3 months or 13-weeks or something.   This would've meant that her deal was expiring in May or June of 1980, and it was probably renegotiation time for her long-term contract.  If Bell & Conboy wanted to dump her, this was their chance.  If they wanted to keep her, this was Bond Gideon's opportunity to make them ante-up a bigger salary.  Evidently, her agent overstepped her popularity (called her "Q-factor" in those days) and as a result she was out the door, with Deborah Adair coming quickly as her replacement.  (As y'all could tell from the clips that surfaced a while back, Bond Gideon was a pretty girl, a capable actress, and she seemed to have a fairly good command of the Jill character.)  There's always been a theory that she was miscast and then "Shattucked" because of her unpopularity; after watching her clips, I find that doubtful.    

All of this is just conjecture, but Bell appeared to know where he was going with this particular storyline.   He started dropping hints early on about the good-for-nothing, playboy son, the wife who'd abandoned the family years ago, the two daughters (one in boarding school, the other in college), the beloved housekeeper -- all of these things that didn't come to fruition fully until two years down the road.  There were very few missteps here on Bill Bell's part, unlike other storylines which seemed to misfire like crazy (Sebastian Crowne & the orphans, the Stevens family who could hop on a plane and disappear from the canvas in a single episode, Kay Chancellor vanishing into thin air for endless months with no explanation at all between her rescue from Felipe's island and her liaison with Jerry Cashman the male escort, Todd Williams the much-discussed young seminarian who never appeared on-screen, Suzanne Lynch who took a job in the Chancellor Industries cafeteria and was never seen or heard from again, Douglas Austin who was a petty thief breaking into a safe in one episode and Victor Newman's dear friend from the mysterious war in the next episode, and so forth and so on).  I believe the Jabot storyline was the ONE thing Bell seemed sure about; it just took a couple of months of actor-shuffling to get it rolling by late summer of 1980.     

34 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

Thanks for that.

So it looks like Sean Garrison was John Abbott #1.

Maybe that didn't get mentioned because originally John was not going to be a major player. 

Although we did see him in that scene with Bond. Perhaps the plan was for John to be a stumbling block in the Jill/Jack romance and not another older man Jill was attracted to.

 

As for Bond and the negotiations, surely contracts would have been signed off before she joined the show.

Unless Bond started off as recurring? Maybe they agreed to that and then Bond's agent thought he had the upper hand?

Though that seems unlikely as Y&R didn't seem to do that, especially with major roles.

 

I'm pretty sure it was Brett Halsey, lol.  

You could tell from Scene One that this "Jabot plot" was going to be Jill's next big storyline, and John Abbott was slated to play a crucial role in it.  They pulled out all the stops -- shiny new sets, professionally-designed Jabot logo, an expensive suit from Giorgio's of Beverly Hills for the CEO, the whole she-bang.  And remember, this scene came only a few months after Jill divorced Stuart Brooks, so the foreshadowing with the Older Man was pretty obvious.  

Jill had been working at some lower-income hair salon called "Bob's Beauty Bar" (or something like that), and she hated it.  She'd whined about it several times.  Steve Williams kept telling her she could do better.  Finally, she decided that she'd apply for the job at Jabot.  She marched into the new Jabot set (without even a commercial break to mark the time sequence between her resolution and her action) and talked John Abbott into interviewing her, though he specified to her that normally hiring was done by the HR department.  She was underqualified for the job, but sold herself well, and he hired her on a trial basis.    The scene was a "big deal", and you could tell it was moving toward a specific purpose.

It was several weeks later that John became impressed enough with her to say, "I'd like for you to speak with John Junior -- we've always called him Jack -- and help him get his head on straight."  Initially it was all about her relationship with John Senior. 

As for who played John in that initial interview scene -- I remember it as being Halsey.  But then again, I was a young teenager, and John Abbott was a 50-year old man, and all 50 year old men tend to look the same to a young kid.  The only time I recall laying eyes on Sean Garrison is in the You Tube clip posted by Bond Gideon's real-life husband.  But memories from 40+ years ago can be deceiving, I guess. 

In hindsight, there was a lot of stopping and starting with this particular storyline (much like in the beginning of the Derek Thurston storyline in 1976), but by the time we started seeing Terry Lester, Deborah Adair and Brett Halsey on a regular basis in the fall of 1980, it seemed as though Jabot had existed on the show for a long time, and it seemed as though Jill had been interacting with Abbott Senior and Abbott Junior for eons.   The whole show was rather topsy-turvy in 1980 as ya'll know, but the Jabot aspect of it always seemed fairly smooth, self-confident, sophisticated, and Bell-like, while many other aspects of the show in 1980 seemed cobbled together more haphazardly.    

15 minutes ago, DaytimeFan said:

I do have to wonder if they're 'on contract' for SAG health insurance purposes or if it's a contract without any episode guarantee, just an agreed price per episode?

I wonder about all of that, too.  It appeared the same treatment had been given to Kristoff St. John, Christian LeBlanc, Kate Linder and Doug Davidson, all at the same time.

Kristoff, of course, passed away soon after. 

Doug Davidson began airing his grievances publicly, and soon after he spoke out, he was listed as recurring, rather than contract.  (Before he opened his mouth, he was listed as contract.)  Then his appearances plummeted, and he hasn't been seen at all since back in late 2020. 

LeBlanc and Linder have remained quiet about their deals, and are still listed as contract, though their appearances are minimal.  (LeBlanc is actually on the other side of the country, doing "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof" in New York currently.)    

33 minutes ago, sheilaforever said:

Hahaha - Vickie sure had a biiiiig mouth back then. I also remember the show to tackle the serious angst and psychological issues Victoria was suffering from due to Gary's stalking and the tree house finale. However, she in my memory also saved before things got REALLY bad. Was it Cole who rescued her? I can't remember.

Maybe Nicholas?  The whole thing is kind of a blur to me, as there weren't any real "surprises" in it.  The Gary Dawson character was pretty quiet and assuming, and Victoria was at her LOUDEST and most STRIDENT then.  I'd kind of hoped that Gary wouldn't turn out to be the stalker, that he and Victoria would develop a relationship, and he'd teach her to be a little quieter and less bossy.  But nope, he was the stalker.  When the duct tape came out, that was the highlight of the storyline, lol.  

7 hours ago, Darn said:

Can someone clear this up for me, I was reading the Wikipedia article for Victoria and it says that she was raped by her stalker Gary in the treehouse but I don’t recall is happening and if it did I’m not sure it’s been referenced since.

I remember Gary putting some duct tape over her loud, screeching mouth (a much appreciated gesture!), but I don't recall him raping her.  

I know the show is still pretending that Christian LeBlanc and Kate Linder are on contract, but I'm guessing they're not.  They look awfully recurring.  

5 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I think most of the Black male characters on Y&R in the past 15 years had potential, no? Including the character played by Lamon Archey, who they refused to write for. 

But let's take Nate, a character born on screen and compare him to Nicholas Newman, another character born on screen. Compare the first year each adult character was on the canvas. Lord knows JM was no Olivier (neither Laurence nor Martinez) when he first arrived but they gave him story, surrounded him with highly competent and talented actors (Heather Tom and all the experienced adult actors) and oh, Nick was involved in plenty of story (his own and others).

What did grown Nate get? 

Even compare Devon's transition from teen to adult to Nick's. Nick had a heavy duty relationship, an affair with Grace Turner. Entree into the business world, working for the family business. What did Devon get? A barely visible girlfriend? Languishing until they pair him in a triangle with his adopted father...and his de facto Aunt?

One character was written into viability...the others...not so much.

Yes, and go another step -- look at how they handled David Tom's Billy Abbott a few years later, and they were still pumping stories at his less those less-than-charismatic replacements that came between David Tom and Billy Miller.  They were just determined to make Billy a central character.  Nate -- nothing at all.  Devon -- very little after that initial storyline of foster care (which I believe was actually proposed to the writers by Victoria Rowell).  

Yeah, and to my knowledge that's not "expensive" directing, or "time-consuming" directing -- it's just creativity, preparation on the director's part, and then execution of what you'd thought of and planned.   We've all seen low-budget films and TV shows that are well-directed and some that are poorly directed.  Lately, Y&R has fallen into the second category.  

4 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Obviously, as they had more time then, the actors and camera moved around quite a bit more, which added to the visual and dramatic impact.

Nowadays, everybody pretty much stands still and the camera angles are static throughout the scene.

Perhaps I'm blaming the wrong people.  But I believe a lot of the problem is LAZINESS on the part of today's directors.  Even with a much shorter shooting day, the director still receives his/her script several days in advance and has ample time to mentally block the scenes and visualize which shots can be used to make each scene more effective and dramatic.  When you get to the studio, it's just a matter of quickly executing what you'd planned in advance for the scenes.  No, the cameras themselves probably can't move as much today as they did in the 1980s, (due to the time constraints) but there are STILL three cameras, and the director should already have a clear idea of the episode's look and feel before he/she ever shows up at the studio, and which of the three cameras will be used to capture each shot in the final print.  

I'm sure we all share a common view of today's absent (or subpar) music choices.  

7 hours ago, yrfan1983 said:

"Derek and Jill suggested that Liz give herself a more youthful look by dyeing her hair. They gave her a wig to acquaint herself with the new image, but she felt ridiculous."

Ok this sounds amazing

Liz's whole world was falling apart -- Jill giving her a fright wig to wear, the grotesque Wings Hauser suddenly popping up as her son, Maestro Faustch shoving strudel down her throat, and her vodka-swilling, cigarette-smoking, 49-year-old gal-pal trying to get pregnant. 

Nonetheless, it's wonderful to read these old summaries.  Thanks so much, French Fan!     

And they're standing in front of one of the best backdrops on daytime TV (in my opinion).  

8 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

If I asked Eilewn questions, I'd ask her how she adjusted to coming back as Ashley after she was played by 2 other actresses, how she was able to play changes in the character.  Also, I would ask she was able to differentiate between Kristen and Ashley in her approaches to acting, etc.

 

I would've asked those questions, too.  She also mentioned that she's "always nervous that I'll mess it up".  Alan Locher responded, "Wow that's crazy" (or something along those lines).  He seemed to find it difficult to believe that she might "mess it up", since she'd learned her lines.  Obviously, she wasn't worried about forgetting her lines, but rather about how she might potentially stray in her acting choices.  This could've turned into a fairly in-depth look into her craft, but he just brushed it aside with no real interest in her response.    

15 hours ago, asafi said:

indeed mentioning Michael Tylo was tactless.. come an, it was during Brenda's tenure. I wish he would have asked her about Brenda - she was such a great Ashley recast (maybe even better then the original) 

She's spoken about Brenda before.  If I remember right, she met Brenda at some type of "celebrity waiter" event, and recommended that Brenda audition for the role, as she'd already told Bill Bell that she was leaving in late 1988.   

Alan Locher is a babbling fool.  I'm sure somewhere out there, a WORSE interviewer exists, but I've never actually seen a poorer one before.  

If the nitwit planned to ask about Eileen's co-stars (Michael Tylo, lol), why on earth didn't he ask about Don Diamont?  That's who Eileen was paired with for several years from the late 1990s through the early 2000s, was the character who raised Abby Carlton (mysteriously known now as Abby Newman-Abbott, which makes no sense at all), and was married to Ashley during the breast cancer storyline.  Also, he'd previously been Eileen's boyfriend in real life during the late 1980s.  Instead he asks about Michael Tylo (who she never met) and J Eddie Peck (who she worked with for about a week).  He's a complete ninny.   

3 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

Here's another pic:

That's two vampires going out for a festive New Years Eve bash 

Really, it's Margaret Colin playing Paige Madison on "Edge" in costume as the ingenue in "Mansion of the Damned", being seduced by Lee Godart playing Eliot Dorn on "Edge" in costume as Satan in "Mansion of the Damned".