Franko

20 minutes ago, Vee said:

Also, sorry to spam people: What exactly went down with Jake Meyer's exit? It seems like Sam Behrens may have gone for a long stretch of 1988 before he finally exited, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. He's so good with Jackie, it's too bad.

I don't know if there was necessarily drama so much as Sam wanted to try his luck with primetime. It was good that he came back in November and early December to wrap up Jake and Bobbie's relationship.

1 minute ago, Dion said:

I think after Gloria Monty left he was dissatisfied with the direction of Jake's character so he left, did a brief stint on LA Law and then came back to GH a short while later to wrap up Jake and Bobbie's story before exiting for good.

And was apparently also set to be the male lead if The Facts of Life continued or had a spinoff with Blair running Eastland.

3 hours ago, dc11786 said:

 

@DRW50 Thanks for the foreshadowing video. My thoughts on the serial killer plot are pretty well known so I won't rehash that too much. I will say I am curious when the writing team knew they were going to go that route. Some of the material, in my opinion, is a stretch on foreshadowing. The Stacey/Buck/Tess material was so thin after Nixon left because she had made that story so plot heavy that Laurie McCarthy and Addie Walsh fumbled it because they had no clue where to take that group next especially when they dropped Janie. I don't think Tess worked with any writer other than Nixon. Her dealing tarot seems to be about as interesting as anything Tess had in the final half of 1994. Buck and Stacey talking about Deborah of all people shows how little material they have. I also think that Gwyn as a psychologist is odd, but her "I've been taking courses for a while" is even more so. 

For what its worth, the Loving Murders was announced as an upcoming storyline on Monday, June 12, 1995.

2 hours ago, DRW50 said:

1993 was a year of one wakeup call after another for JFP, and she was lucky to even last as far past that as she did.

Speaking of which, today is the 28th anniversary of both the announcement that Jill would begin working on Another World and that Loving would be rebooted (the SoHo move, new title, Morgan Fairchild -- but not her role, apparently -- and serial killer storyline were all announced in one fell swoop).

Choking on a macaroon!

I'm going to guess that the partial episodes on March 6 and 9 were because of coverage of the ongoing United Mine Workers strike. On the 6th, President Carter said that he was invoking a law to order the strikers back to work. On the 9th, that law went into effect.

Side note about news coverage: It's quite trippy to watch 1990 episodes of One Life to Live, where the lead-up to the Persian Gulf War is taking up enough air time to practically be a storyline!

I wonder if Frances Reid ever found out that she was near the chopping block ...

2 hours ago, Vee said:

I highly doubt that. I don't think any regime after Monty was remotely invested in Bill, despite Geary's desperate attempts to put him over. They jumped at the chance to bring back Luke and Laura. The only reason Bill was created was to appease TG, who did not want to play Luke again in '91.

"Forever" was a bad choice of words on my part. The endgame for everyone but Tony (and Genie) was pretty clearly to have Luke and Laura back. I should have written it as "If Bill Eckert had to exist, then presumably they'd have liked him as almost Luke until they could have the real deal again."

19 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

The light romantic hero image seems to be his longest characterization alternating between businessman and adventurer. After the Cartel, he was involved with Holly and the story with Holly's half-sister Paloma, while also plotting business ventures with Paul Hornsby. 

Which version of Bill do people felt worked best?

I don't know if it worked all that well, but I suspect that the powers that be would have prefered this incarnation, the "almost Luke," to have gone on forever.

1 hour ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Since the move to Peacock, Days has aired 190 episodes, so I imagine that they're close to, or have already beat every other show that's been on a streaming service before.

To put that in perspective, Netflix's apparent longest-runner is Big Mouth, likely to conclude with 81 total episodes. The Handmaid's Tale, on Hulu, is likely to conclude with 66 episodes. Star Trek: Discovery, Paramount+, will end with 65 episodes.

16 minutes ago, Kane said:

I have mixed feelings about Brown & Esensten, but one of the positive things about their regime is that they actually wrote for and prioritized the black cast members. I won't be at all surprised if it turns out that Alimi Ballard had more episodes in 1995 than in 1993 and 1994 combined. Ewing, too, actually.

Ballard and Ewing are certainly on track to meet that goal. With thanks for you being so thorough, and with the knowledge that there's less than 110 episodes left of Loving itself ...

Ballard -- 27 confirmed episodes in '93; 48 confirmed episodes in '94; 35 confirmed episodes so far in '95 (41 more to go!).

Ewing -- 28 confirmed episodes in '93; 78 confirmed episodes in '94; 54 confirmed episodes so far in '95 (53 more to go!).

And, just because:

Morgan -- 45 confirmed episodes in '93; 80 confirmed episodes in '94; 46 confirmed episodes so far in '95 (80 more to go!).

Let it be noted that Geoffrey C. Ewing likely appeared in all 23 episodes of Loving that aired in May 1995. @Kane's site doesn't have a recap for May 18, but we can make an educated guess that Ewing appeared that day. Also, Ewing, Debbi Morgan and Darnell Williams will end the month as the three actors with the most appearances. And assuming that she appeared in the May 18 episode, Debbi was in 23 straight episodes from April 20-May 22.

3 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

The thing I liked about the mini series and the 1st full season with Pam was that she may have pulled herself up by the boot straps by working at the department store and marrying Bobby.. but there were times we were reminded that in her heart, she was a Waco girl... and had a coolness/strength that radiated.

It's a shame that aspect of Pam's characterization didn't last. I guess it was a casualty of so many people on DALLAS (and in primetime soaps as a whole) becoming/being well off. Once you've got it, it apparently doesn't matter how, or how it's affecting you.

5 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

As the series wore on Pam became emotionally unstable and Bobby often treated her like crap because of his male ego.

There's a wonderful YouTuber, Cool Channel Network, who's been doing some amazing recaps. These words about Bobby really sums it up.

Did Billy and Marcy Walker have an amicable divorce? I ask because earlier in the Billy discussion, the idea of his doing a New York soap came up. For whatever reason, All My Children was the first one that came to mind. I'd have cast him as Andrew Hunter, fresh from prison.

30 minutes ago, Khan said:

Maybe, but to tell you the truth, @Franko, I didn't think Jill had much of a "life" on the show beyond her relationship with Gary.  If she hadn't have gone insane and tried to kill Val, she probably would have just left town like Paula Vertosick. 

That's a fair assessment.

8 hours ago, Khan said:

Ideally, there should have been three tiers to the females on KNOTS, with ML, DM, JVA, Constance McCashin and later Michelle Phillips and Kathleen Noone on the top tier; LH, NS and maybe Lar Park Lincoln or one other female on the next tier; and Tonya Crowe and Stacy Galina on the bottom.

If they hadn't gone to a point of no return with Jill, could she have fit on that tier?

2 hours ago, Vee said:

I'll be that guy. I think a soap with balls would do a school shooting story today and play it. Agnes would've done it. Same as soaps abdicating their responsibility on COVID, or abortion.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Absolutely!  I totally agree, @Vee!

I should clarify: I'm okay with a storyline (such as a school shooting) that shows how using guns leads to serious, real consequences.  I'm NOT okay with people packing heat and shooting at each other just because it'll keep viewers from changing the channel to "Karamo."

Preaching to the choir here, but soaps are the ideal media to fully tell the stories of COVID, abortion and gun violence. I wish the remaining shows were willing to go there.

4 hours ago, AbcNbc247 said:

Well tbf, that helped a lot of teenage boys (myself included) realize a few things about themselves

I've said it before, but NBC Daytime's stable of guys from circa 1999-2006 helped me realize it wasn't a phase.

25 minutes ago, j swift said:

I'm not the only one that sees the resemblance, right?

I actually have to keep reminding myself that William Smithers is *not* William Duell from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

5 hours ago, Vee said:

Fascinating. I seem to recall something I heard about one of the books indicating one of the Ewing children was not Jock's. Or am I way off?

I need to re-read my copy; there may have been a hint about J.R. possibly being Digger's son.

4 hours ago, Broderick said:

Another aspect of the novel was that Gary, as a teenager, married a local girl -- a Mexican -- from Braddock.  Her name was Vera Rodriguez if I remember correctly.  It wouldn't do for Gary to be married to a Mexican girl -- and a CATHOLIC at that, lol! -- so Jock ran her off, which pissed off her entire (huge) Mexican family.  Gary then promptly married Maureen (subsequently revised to Valene for the TV series).  Maureen wasn't happy with Gary at all, because he would go off on alcoholic benders, which enraged Jock Ewing but which Miss Ellie tolerated (because Gary was her "sweet baby" who could do no wrong.   Maureen ended up having sex on several occasions with JR Ewing while Gary was away, because Maureen loved JR's "big stud horse pecker", as she typically described his member.  The implication was that Lucy was as likely to be JR's child as Gary's, and the ironic theme throughout the book was that Lucy hated JR's guts but had no idea he might be her daddy, lol.  That was a thread deliberately left open-ended.   

Wow, I completely forgot about Vera. And that Maureen loved getting it on with J.R. (which clearly doesn't jibe with how Joan van Ark played Valene).

1 hour ago, Broderick said:

In the 1978 novel Dallas by Lee Raintree, which was based on David Jacobs' outlines of the initial five scripts, Jimmy was more-or-less a kid brother to Pam & Cliff, and Aunt Maggie served as a mother to all three kids (Cliff, Pam, and Jimmy).  The novel was written from the script outlines, before the filming was done and even before the scripts were finalized.  It was timed to be released in conjunction with the miniseries.   

Raintree took some interesting liberties in that book. For example, Lucy being the product of a rape between J.R. and "Maureen." And Sue Ellen being at least a decade younger (she's Miss Texas '75, not '67). It also goes into more detail about why J.R. and Julie's relationship exists; he comes to her for the kind of sex he wouldn't dare expect/ask from Sue Ellen.

42 minutes ago, Khan said:

That makes sense, @Soaplovers.  I think the producers should have addressed that issue, too.  Val had been through every parent's worst nightmare.  Getting the twins back seemed to put a nice bow on everything, but it really shouldn't have.  We should've seen Val struggling even after getting Betsy and Bobby back.  Val should've been paranoid about losing them again to the point where she refuses to leave the house without them or have them sleep in another bedroom.  And Ben should've been beside himself (again) over how to handle the situation.

Of course, being the cruel bastard that I am, I would've had Ben convince Val to leave the twins at home with Lilimae or one of Karen's sons for an evening out with Mack and Karen, only to have Ben and Val return home that night to discover that the twins have been abducted yet again.

So many possibilities with that scenario, which could have happened at any time throughout Season 7. It could be one of the Empire Valley people, letting Gary know that they mean business. Or either Joshua before his death or a crazy fan after his death. Or an unbalanced Cathy or Lilimae. Or even save it for the end of the season and have Bobby and Betsy, not Karen, be held by Phil Harbert.

After that, though, Bobby and Betsy would never be allowed to be kidnapped again. Wouldn't want to overdo it.

3 minutes ago, kalbir said:

JR was never a romantic leading man.

I'm not especially well-versed in the later seasons, but was Vanessa Beaumont the show's one and only attempt at trying to give J.R. someone who loved him with almost no strings attached?

22 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

I don't know what the ladies found attractive about JR. 

Take away the money, and you've got a guy with massive daddy issues whose interest in you peters out after the conquest. Be still my heart -- not!

1 minute ago, Broderick said:

It was all kinda handled in the dumbest way possible.  If they were dying to have a Princess Diana, they should've had her be a Colby who was already married to a prince.  Plus that could've spared us from a guerilla massacre or two. 

Agreed. Feels like that could have worked as part of Bliss' characterization.

2 minutes ago, Broderick said:

And that whole Amanda thing was dumb as hell.  

One of the Shapiros evidently said, "Let's find a girl who looks sort of like Princess Diana, have her be from London, and marry her off to a prince.  Our poverty-stricken audience will think every rich family has a princess in it!!"  

We'd already had Adam spring-up out of nowhere, and then Amanda suddenly dropped out of the clouds.  It made you wonder if Blake and Alexis actually had fourteen or fifteen children and had forgotten all of them except two -- woops, three -- woops, FOUR!  

I can't blame Dynasty for trying its luck at capitalizing on Diana-mania (It's not like Dallas, for instance, could.) but the execution just wasn't there.