Franko

That All That Glitters episode was interesting to watch. I'm assuming/hoping it was relatively early in the run, since they sure seemed to be hitting us hard with the gimmick of the role reversals.

That theme song is the pits. Is that Gary Sandy singing?

Since he had the most to do, I'd declare Chuck McCann as the episode's MVP. On the other hand, my favorite scene was David Haskell & Greg Evigan's confrontation. 

You also get a sense of how the play on TV style isn't as compatible with soaps as one would assume. I found myself missing the undercoring that would come with scenes like David and Greg's, or Chuck and Lois Nettleton's.

And look, Meg Wylie and Jessica Walter in the ending teaser!

7 minutes ago, Khan said:

Sex?

Well, if you insist ...

(No, that's not it.)

I'm going to be a nerd and point out that at least one plot element is shared by Wheels and Hollywood Wives. Do you know what it is?

You know what's the thing I love about Deceptions? It was a deception. Wealthy, "bad" Stefanie Powers just needed the love of good man Barry Bostwick to embrace the middle class lifestyle of "good" Stefanie Powers. A lifestyle that good Stefanie was more than happy to give up ... which meant she had to be punished. Talk about encouraging your audience not to dream too high!

I was saying this to friends about a week ago, one of the biggest disadvantages to Hollywood Wives the movie is that the mystery sustained throughout the book (that Deke & Buddy are identical twins) obviously has to be solved early on. I am curious how a Hollywood Husbands miniseries circa 1987 (Jackie even had a character unmistakably based on Sister Dearest!), or Hollywood Kids ~1996 (which I remember having an obvious Tori Spelling analogue) would have done.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

The issue was she also didn't want it to be 1980. She wanted this "General Hospital"/ "Eastenders" hybrid. 

Ah, that's true. I was being unfair to Monty. She was willing to move on, ABC wasn't.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

I'm curious if Felicia & Frisco and Robert & Anna could have functioned in Riche's Port Charles. I don't know if either male actor would be interested in that vision of "General Hospital." Finola Hughes would have shined as Kristina Wagner did when she returned. 

Talk about your what-could-have-beens. Most, if not all, of the longtime women had some golden opportunities with Riche. It would have been nice to see what she'd have done with Finola.

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Thanks for the list. I think Edie Lehman was pre-Monty. Katherine wasn't working. I am at the end of October, 1990. With Cheryl back, her days were numbered. Monty had no use for Cheryl so I don't think Katherine was a casualty of Monty. She would have been. 

Yeah, I included Katherine (who left with her ward, King) as a prologue for what was coming. We can't lay that one at Monty's feet, even though, as you point out, she would have been cut anyway.

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Broxton was played by Norman Snow in this time period. 

Carla and Frankie both depart the same day as Colton and Charlene, February 26. This might be Robert Fortinero, Jr.'s only appearance in 1991 as he is rarely used once Monty appeared from what I saw earlier this year. 

I would move Nurse Sheila Contillion (Stacey Morez) up to the first round of new hires. She is appearing as early as March (if not February, I will update when I get there again in my viewing). She essentially replaces Dawn at the nurses' station. Joey Moscini is also around in February as he was on the S.S. Tracy as well. There are a lot of new recurring characters who seem like they are going to be more. There were a pair of siblings, Carol and Patrick Pulaski, who were friendly with the Eckerts. Carol was a love interest for Bill and Patrick seemed poised as the loser in love who would be Jenny's second tier love interest to the more exciting lead. Patrick worked as a mannequin dresser at Wyndham's. Carol was someone's secretary, I believe. Mac ended up doing community service at a center with a bunch of kooky types, but they may have arrived in the time of your second wave. 

I also forgot to mention Mary (Mary Jo Catlett), Katherine's housekeeper, who I believe also departed around this time. And I assume that Olin, Anna's housekeeper, was done, too.

2 hours ago, dc11786 said:

Monty dumped all the characters who had been introduced since she left in 1987 (or was it 1986?). Also, no one in that first rounded who was added was returning. Herring was only returning from her maternity leave. 

It's funny. We talk about Bridget & Jerome Dobson wanting to make it 1987 again when they came back to Santa Barbara, and Monty was doing similar. Although as @Jdee43points out, her time machine was set to 1980. BTW, note that Dawn & Decker on the run ALSO began on the day of a wedding. At least that one actually happened.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

Jack Wagner leaving makes sense as Mac was starting to get a lot of the Frisco comical crime fighting stuff. 

Unless I missed it, did they ever resolve Frisco's last story? He was apparently freaking out about somebody uncovering his past, which was the reason he gave to Felicia for leaving her.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

Jason vs. A.J. is in the works from the beginning, although maybe not in the same form as it would later be. 

Indeed! Jason and A.J.'s first interaction included A.J. shooting off his mouth and getting punched out.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

Susan Hornsby is more forgotten than written out. I'm not even sure she was a constant present in Paul's life as her primary residence, I believe, was with Paul's parents. 

Susan seems like such an afterthought to me, nothing but easy motivation for Paul to do the cartel's bidding.

1 hour ago, dc11786 said:

Lucy's departure is all on Riche. I'd say the same for David Langton's as well. Langton's death is incredibly sudden and written when there is no headwriter. 

Yeah, once again, I included those as an attempt to put a definitive ending to what was going on. There was overlap, though, like how mourning Robert & Anna was going on at the same time of introducing Karen & Jagger (two characters very much of the early Riche era).

25 minutes ago, Khan said:

what the heck was going on at AMC?  I'm racking my brains trying to figure out what could've happened for them to drop that far.  Had Michael E. Knight just left the show?

Michael left in December 1990.

It looks like AMC's May-June storylines included Erica's cougar relationship with Charlie, Brooke trying to keep secret that Jamie is Tad's son, early Janet and the reveal of Ceara's abuse, among other things.

22 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

I didn't like her on the show either. She said some of the cast members were not nice to her.

I'm going to head-canon this as the cast all being attached to Karen Cellini, and resenting her unofficial replacement.

No, but seriously, I have no problem believing that certain cast members pulled rank on Terri.

True. It'll get worse. I should have meant that it wasn't narrowing the gap with Y&R.

I will conceed that had Ryan's Hope hung around to the mid '90s, the opportunity was there to really tackle New York's transitional period.

Monty 2.0 is now very much a thing, and the audience ain't feelin' it.

37 minutes ago, MichaelGL said:

Having a soap who's backdrop is New York City is so fascinating, I think it would've flourished in the mid to late 90s. 

"Yeah ... about that ..."

-- The City

20 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

Marland always like to incorporate the 'have nots' usually a large family striving for personal and social success eg The Reardons/GL, The Syders ATWT, The Donovans,LOV, The Spencers GH.

Delia and Bob's long-lost kin? Or a fresh off the boat branch of the Ryans? Jumping slightly ahead in the timeline, I'm imagining one of the immigrants giving a soliloquy about how they should have known America wasn't going to be the answer to every prayer when they couldn't even see the Statue of Liberty's face (a tie-in to the 1984-86 renovation before its centennial).

5 hours ago, Khan said:

Wow, @Franko, thank you for gathering all that information!  Looking at those stats, it seems Gloria Monty's second EP'ing stint at GH was an even bigger disaster than I remembered. 

For example, just 3-4 months after the Eckerts were introduced, Fred and Angela, the patriarch and matriarch of the family, were written out; and less than five months after Nancy was introduced, SHE was killed off!  Unless those quick exits had been the plan all along, I'd say either Monty or the network recognized right away that her new vision for the show was all wrong.

Not only that, but there was also @j swift's favorite, Cousin Joey Eckert, who apparently wasn't even memorable enough to make the summaries. Yeah, it seems clear that the orders to retool the retooling came near-instantly.

5 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

The ratings had a lot to do with it.

Why did ABC rehire her? GH was a solid #2 with a 7.5 rating. Once Gloria was done with destroying the show it had dropped to a 5.0 rating and ranked #7.

They wanted to make it 1980 again by science or magic, and couldn't figure out why it wasn't happening.

Gloria's second run lasted from Monday, Dec. 3, 1990-Friday, Jan. 24, 1992.

Several years ago, I chronicled what I think is the definitive list of the three casting waves during that time. I'll pull it up again.

Okay, here's what I had gathered in 2018 thanks to the curlyqgrl summaries.

First Wave:

Out:

Katherine Delafield (Edie Lehman, 11/26/90)

Shep Casey (Bradley Lockerman, 12/21/90)

Rita Lloyd (Kim Terry, 1/10/91)

Lucy Coe (temporarily, for Lynn Herring's maternity leave, 1/29/91)

Broxton (actor name?, 2/1/91 it appears)

Simone Hardy (Stephanie Williams, 2/12/91)

Carla Greco (Laura Harring, 2/14/91?)

Frankie Greco (Robert Fontaine Jr., no clue on date, but presumably around this time)

Cheryl Stansbury (Jennifer Anglin, 2/14/91?)

Colton Shore (Scott Thompson Baker, 2/26/91)

Charlene Simpson (Maree Cheatham, 2/26/91)

Dawn Winthrop (Jennifer Guthrie, 2/27/91)

Eric Jackson/"Edge Jerome" (Mark St. James, no date given, but presumably late February-early March)

Nurse Jessie Brewer (Emily McLaughlin, 3/1/91; not a writing decision, but notable)

Decker Moss (Michael Watson, no date given, but presumably early March)

Larry Ashton (Hugo Napier, 3/22/91; back for a few days in July)

 

In/Back:

Jenny Eckert (Cheryl Richardson, 2/13/91)

Mac Scorpio (John J. York, 2/18/91)

Bill Eckert (Tony Geary, 2/19/91)

Fred Eckert (William Boyett, 2/20/91)

Angela Eckert (Carol Lawrence, 2/20/91)

Sly Eckert (Glenn Walker Harris Jr., 2/20/91)

Finian O'Toole (Arte Johnson, 2/22/91?)

Harlan Barrett (Michael Cole, 3/7/91)

Lucy Coe (Lynn Herring, 3/12/91)

Paul Hornsby (Paul Satterfield, 3/18/91)

 

 

Second Wave

Out:

Fred Eckert (William Boyett, 5/31/91)

Angela Eckert (Carol Lawrence, 6/5/91; back for Jenny and Ned's wedding in February 1992)

Frisco Jones (Jack Wagner, 6/11/91)

Ned Ashton (Kurt McKinney, 8/30/91)

 

In/Back

Nancy Eckert (Linda Dona, 5/28/91)

Dominique Taub (Tawny Fere Ellis, 6/4/91)

Leopold Taub (Chip Lucia, 6/6/91)

Connor Olivera (Michael Lynch, 6/24/91)

Simone Hardy (Stephanie Williams, 6/25/91)

Cesar Faison (Anders Hove, 6/26/91)

A.J. Quartermaine (Gerald Hopkins, 6/26/91)

Nurse Sheila something-or-other (actress name?, 6/26/91 it appears)

Julia Barrett (Crystal Carson, 6/27/91)

Susan Hornsby (Irina Cashen, 8/21/91)

 

 

Third Wave:

Out:

Nancy Eckert (Linda Dona, 10/14/91 -- whodunnit storyline for another month)

Felicia Jones (Kristina Wagner, 11/5/91; back in May 1992)

Dominique Taub (Tawny Fere Ellis, 11/14/91)

Finian O'Toole (Arte Johnson, 11/21/91?)

Harlan Barrett (Michael Cole, 11/22/91)

Leopold Taub (Chip Lucia, 12/5/91)

Cesar Faison (Anders Hove, 12/5/91)

Anna Devane (Finola Hughes, 12/17/91)

Susan Hornsby (Irina Cashen, 12/27/91)

Anna Devane (Camilla Moore, 1/20/92)

Cesar Faison (Anders Hove, 2/25/92)

Robert Scorpio (Tristan Rogers, 2/25/92)

David Langton (Jeff Pomerantz, 3/23/92)

Lucy Coe (Lynn Herring, 3/27/92)

 

In/Back:

Ned Ashton (Wally Kurth, 9/9/91)

Dr. Eric Simpson (Brandon Hooper, 9/18/91)

Edward Quartermaine (David Lewis, 11/26/91)

Dominique Taub (Shell Davidson, 12/3/91)

Jason Quartermaine (Steve Burton, 12/19/91)

Anna Devane (Camilla Moore, 12/20/91)

David Langton (Jeff Pomerantz, 1/13/92)

Holly Sutton (Emma Samms, 1/16/92)

Cesar Faison (Anders Hove, 1/17/92)

Nikki Langton (Camille Cooper, 1/30/92)

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

What to watch for in 1991

Gloria Monty returns to General Hospital.

She was actually already back. Until I saw the Classic Soap Opera Digest News Tumblr, I didn't know this, but Gloria's first day was Monday, Dec. 3, 1990.

That being said, we can think of February 1991 as the launch of the "new" era, with the introduction of the Eckerts and some of the largest activity of the first wave of cast departures.

Days again -- Jack (Matthew Ashford) disguised as a woman.

 

Steve Olson, Days. I'm still wondering just what went wrong in 1972 to abandon him and opt for SORASing Mike Horton and David Banning, which would cause a massive ripple effect and imbalance.

Devaluing Steve had the largest effect, but we can't also forget his female contemporary, Sandy Horton.

Oh, I've got one ... Taylor's disguises once she arrived back in L.A. in early '95.

 

12 minutes ago, j swift said:

I've often thought that the failure of establishing a female Quartermaine through Dawn Winthrop led to the creation of Emily.  Dawn was recast four times, and her origin story was a mess, but a female Quatermaine in that generation had a lot of story potential.  So, Emily filled that void.

I agree with this. I also don't think that a replacement character has to necessarily come immediately after who they're succeeding. For example, Megan Hathaway and Renee on Days (both surprise DiMera daughters).

What's interesting is when the replacement doesn't catch on, and the OG comes back. On GH, Tracy-Alexandra-Tracy.

Plus Curt and Leora Sanders on AMC in 1981 and that one couple with Craig Wasson as the husband on OLTL in 1991.

31 minutes ago, Khan said:

Sadly, I think Mr. Winther was right.

GENERATIONS was a show that needed to happen, but everything was working against it.  It was placed in a terrible time slot, against a juggernaut like Y&R, on a network whose daytime lineup was itself struggling.  Moreover, the theme song and opening titles were like something out of a coffee commercial ("Folgers brand coffee: three generations later, we're still the best part of waking up"), the sets, wardrobe and background music looked and sounded like they belonged on "Saved by the Bell"; the actors were mediocre, with only a handful of standouts among the cast; and although Sally Sussman had a great vision for her show, she was also 100-percent the wrong person to execute it.

Even though I like the theme, you've hit several nails on the head.

9 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Generations clearance started dropping summer 1990, cancellation announced some three months later, and two months later the final episode. Pretty quick moves by NBC.

Yup, they were clearly ready to move. I posted the cancellation announcement article on the NBC Daytime thread. It seems the network was intending to move further into the news and infotainment field.

9 minutes ago, kalbir said:

AFAIK there were no new big syndicated talk show debuts in Fall 1990. At that point we were at four years of Oprah, three years of Geraldo, two years of Live with Regis and Kathie Lee. Fall 1991 was the debuts of Jenny Jones, Maury Povich, Jerry Springer, and Montel Williams, and I think clearances for Loving and Santa Barbara dropped in that time frame but I could be wrong on that.

Yup, to the best of my knowledge, there was no significant new syndicated talk show in 1990-91. As it turns out, there was actually a fifth debut in fall 1991: Chuck Woolery also had his own show.

Los Angeles Times, Thursday, Nov. 22, 1990

NBC has axed “Generations,” the first daytime soap opera to feature a black family on an ongoing basis, and CBS has canceled “The Hogan Family,” a long-running comedy series that until this season had been seen on NBC.

Those announcements were among a list of mid-season changes revealed Wednesday by the two networks. They included the unveiling of a daytime news program anchored by Faith Daniels for NBC and a new Nell Carter sitcom for CBS.

NBC said that “Generations,” the story of two affluent Chicago families, one black and one white, will have its last broadcast Jan. 25. The soap opera, which began in 1989, won critical acclaim for featuring black performers in dramatic roles, but has suffered low ratings.

The National Assn. for the Advancement of Colored People immediately urged NBC to keep the show on the air.

“We’re very saddened; ‘Generations’ was a breakthrough show,” Sandra Evers-Manly, president of the NAACP’s Beverly Hills-Hollywood chapter, said through a spokeswoman. She urged “Generations” viewers to write NBC asking that the decision be rescinded.

In Los Angeles, as in many other cities, the half-hour “Generations” aired against the second half of CBS’ popular “The Young and the Restless.” So far this season, “Generations” is attracting only 8% of the available viewers, compared with “Y&R;’s” 31%. NBC ranks third behind CBS and ABC in overall daytime ratings.

Sally Sussman, the creator, executive producer and head writer of “Generations,” said that the difficult time slot and lack of support from NBC’s affiliated stations ensured the show’s demise. “To be perfectly honest, as soon as the show went on the air, they were talking about canceling it,” she said in an interview.

Although the show has been canceled, Sussman said, 300 episodes have already been sold into syndication in France, and TV stations here and abroad have expressed interest in continuing it. “You don’t have to be on the network to be successful,” she said.

Brandon Tartikoff, chairman of the NBC Entertainment Group, said in a prepared statement that NBC Productions is exploring the viability of continuing to produce “Generations” for syndication.

Jorn Winther, senior executive producer of “Generations,” said that the show’s poor ratings performance will make the networks wary of new soaps featuring black core characters. “I can’t imagine it (a show like ‘Generations’) will happen again in my lifetime--I’m 57,” he said. “I don’t think I’m going to see an integrated show again.”

As the daytime audience dwindles, NBC hopes to bring viewers back to daytime by introducing four new information series, and has another two in development.

The first is “A Closer Look,” a “woman-oriented” mid-day half-hour anchored by Daniels, to debut Jan. 28. Also to be introduced in the “near future,” NBC said, are “A.M. Assignment,” featuring an all-female news team assigned to “in-depth feature stories”; “Women’s Diaries,” a “real-life soap” about ordinary people and their problems, and “Trialwatch,” a “magazine” show using actual footage from courtroom trials.

Trialwatch made it to air. To the best of my knowledge, unless they had trial runs, A.M. Assignment and Women's Diaries never made it to air.

Jumping ahead a little, NBC announced Generations' cancellation on Wednesday, Nov. 21, 1990.