Vee

I think Jon and the Wall were far, far from an afterthought this season or last.

When would the show have found the time this season to stop dead, dredge up the old story of Tyrion's first wife, and have him and Jaime have a sit-down over it that ends badly? That spare time certainly did not exist in the finale, or in the onscreen narrative that led up to it. It would've been very kludgily forced in, IMO, if they'd tried to drop it in tonight as Jaime is freeing Tyrion. "Oh, by the way..." They could get to it someday, but it would not have worked last night. As for Jojen, I thought the scene was quick but realistic - and I thought his last moments, as the fire came down, were great. If, as is alleged, Jojen is all but dead in the books now anyway I can see why they'd want to economize and let him have a good death here and now. Especially since, up til now, he's been the much more prominent of the Reeds, whereas I understand in the books Meera has had a larger role as well. And now, presumably, she will take prominence on the show. Books can do those things - they can balance infinite time, they can stop dead for little roundelays. GOT already gives so much time over to character scenes, monologues, etc. but when it's time to move I don't think they can just allow something to drag the plot to a halt.

Maybe Bran will go flying around and they'll have him kludgily voice animals, like in Milo & Otis. He can pop up and check in with everyone. One week he's a raven, the next he's a squirrel or a seagull. "Arya! It's me!" As the animal sort of vaguely moves its mouth in some half-assed fashion. I could watch that for a few months. Speaking of Bran and voice acting, here is his silly-looking new animated film where he plays a boy raised by trolls. I really don't see the general populace ever picking up the mixed critical opinion of the AV Club of late. Given the overwhelming reaction this year that's just not happening with this show.

I don't think anyone is really giving major critical weight to the AV Club's take on this show at this point - they've sort of been dog-paddling towards trying to create some sort of furor since before the show returned this year. And I mean, it only matters to me as much as I let it.

I really don't think anyone who isn't hidebound about the books is going to say that sucked. I think that is the absolute last thing on the general public's minds after that episode, which was a showstopper. I think the show is firing on all cylinders and I think the general reaction to this year bears that out as well. I haven't seen even a hint of that kind of reaction to this year, at least among the general public - most people I know IRL don't read the books, and those that do don't have a problem AFAIK. The most I heard from my most obsessive friend was that she hoped they would mention the last of the giants, which they did.

I don't mind the Daenerys story - I just like watching her struggle to learn to rule, I like the nitty-gritty of that process. I know it's not the most exciting thing for some people but it fascinates me. And of course her arc has left her a hypocrite; she must chain her own children. I don't think Arya ever belonged with the Hound. She should've gone off with Brienne, but of course I can't have nice things so off she goes to Braavos with some other brilliant tweenage idea. I had expected the Children of the Forest to be sort of homunculus-like and less human; more sort of tree goblin children, as depicted in some of the art on the Blu-Ray sets. The kid who turned up was surprisingly human.

Yeah, that started out by the book and then turned into a streetfight. Raw [!@#$%^&*]. So did they get the cash from the Bank to get ships and go North? I think adding the Dragonstone crew in with Jon Snow and the boyz (a.k.a. Jon Snow featuring the Ice Kold Krew) is a pretty brilliant move, story-wise. And assuming Arya, Varys and Tyrion are all headed to at least different points on Essos, well, that's very interesting too. To say nothing of Littlefinger and Sansa - where the hell were they going? Who the hell is the next Hand of the King? Pretty slim pickings now. Who are they leaving in charge, assuming Jaime can't break his Kingsguard vow? Tommen and the idiot Tyrell father? Cersei's going to have to take charge by default. And she's not terribly good at governing.

Yeah, I can't unpack all of that right now. It was all fantastic. Just a few things now: I had a feeling about Tywin, but the rest was a shock. And the stuff with Jon and Mance, and Stannis went in a different direction than I expected - great stuff from Kit Harington and Ciaran Hinds, who makes a meal of just a few appearances. Was this why Stannis went to Braavos? To get more ships or men? Or just funds? I can't recall. The fight between Brienne and the Hound started out badass and turned out just awful and difficult to watch, which is what it was supposed to be. Not awful in a bad way, just awful because we care about both people and it's a terrible thing they had to do. Brienne and Arya did have great chemistry, it's too bad about that whole thing. Now what the hell are those two supposed to do? I would assume Tywin picked up Shae after they turned her. I was amazed they had the balls to do that to Tyrion's character, but I was very impressed by all those scenes. Incredible work from Lena Headey as well. And all I could think when that renegade maester (name?) started talking about how the Mountain would be "different" was, they're about to make the worst White Walker possible. I half-expected the Three-Eyed Raven (or whoever) to warg Bran into Daenerys's errant dragon. I would've sooner Jojen and Bran continued their quiet little teen crush and lost Meera, who I think has little character so far, but I suppose this is to set up her as Bran's eventual love interest, which is what I had pegged her for when the Reed kids first turned up on the scene. She's a fine actress so seeing her more of her in a bigger role is fine by me. I loved that whole Army of Darkness fight. Poor old Jojen. I had half-expected to see ride up on a cliff as Arya sailed away - I got spoiled for who that is, sadly - but I wonder if they're saving it to shock next year. If Melisandre isn't there to, ultimately, either ice (ohhhh!) Jon Snow like she intended to do to Gendry, or throw over Stannis and call him the one true King when this is all over, I'll eat my hat.

I can't wait for the Telltale Games RPG coming up - they've done such a wonderful job with the Walking Dead license.

The moment is coming

I had people reciting his lines from the duel to me all night. And our drunk friend could just barely contain herself from spoiling the books, but at least we bonded over our hopes that Bran would join Jon and Daenerys in winning the day.

Pedro Pascal allegedly lives nearby. What do I do with my life now?

Oddly enough, it's not unlike what a friend of mine in Australia had been describing to me about a recent election down there - I thought what he described sounded just like the Tea Party taking seats. And now we have this, I'll have to fill him in.

They are bigoted, xenophobic extremists who despise Obama, some of whom espouse a bizarre separatist ideology and occasionally let loose with sentiments that border on domestic terrorism. The GOP believed they could channel all this hate, fear and low-info neuroses into their existing coffers and power base, believed they could control these people. They can't. The Tea Party has been taking seats from establishment GOP, disrupting working government and eating the Republican Party alive ever since. And now the establishment GOP is practically beholden to them, in fear of losing their seats like Cantor or others. The lunatics have hijacked the asylum. The Tea Party was also never an organic grassroots movement - it was built, bought and paid for by major right wing donors and then activated amongst the base.

I had no idea Jill Mitwell (who lasted at OLTL well into last summer, IIRC) went back that far. Wow. Your insight is consistently invaluable. I have heard that about Marsha Clark and John Wesley Shipp and Marland before. Probably from you.

I think their torching the giants, etc. at the tunnel, knocking the men off the Wall and and going ape on the guys inside (including with Ghost) helped. But as Jon said, Mance was only testing their defenses. If he'd wanted to pour it on he could've, and probably taken them.

That was pretty fantastic. Neil Marshall has done some great films, and his action work on the show is always first-rate. I had been inadvertently spoiled about Ygritte dying over the last week due to some careless browsing online, but I always had a feeling that kid was going to figure in somehow this season, either as the first to die or - as I ultimately surmised - the one to kill her. I actually really liked the Sam and Gilly stuff. I've always been fine with their little bits, but the stuff with Sam, Gilly and Aemon was particularly excellent, IMO. As was Jon and Thorne's little moment on the Wall. That stuff in the tunnel, with the giant and the oath, was a real fist-pumping tearjerker. And there were some great jawdroppers, like the moment with the scythe. And Ghost!

That's still one of the funniest things I've ever seen on daytime. AMC was of such a specific piece in its heyday, and they could get away with that stuff because they were both socially conscious and still loving to their most eccentric and incorrect or dysfunctional characters. I was so glad to see that spirit return to the show last year.

The Red Viper has claimed his next victim. I read up a lot on the Escobar case back in the day, and it sounds like a plum role for Pedro Pascal. He'll be head to head with Wagner Moura, who's an incredible Brazilian actor famous for the Elite Squad films who also popped up on American screens as the best thing in Neill Blomkamp's blah sci-fi movie Elysium.

George R.R. Martin promises to kill you when the moment is right - for charity.

I don't need to exaggerate. I just wish you wouldn't spend every week implicitly suggesting we're all stupid for liking the hit show you hate.

From what I keep hearing from most other people, at least 90% of the stuff you're decrying as quoted appears to have been in these books originally. It's a medieval fantasy world full of sex, violence and quite a bit of rape. But it always had many points of view, including many strong female points of view, and I think the show continues to have that today. But according to you, everyone who read the books or not, who likes the show and finds it to be of high quality, just doesn't get it, because you think it's lowest common denominator trash. So you've told us, over and over and over. If you dislike the show this strongly, I have to join Antoyne in failing to see why you spend week after week telling us how terrible it is and how much it's missing the point, how much we are, and how George R.R. Martin is a lazy jerk who you're convinced is abandoning you. You're not just torturing yourself, you're hectoring a number of us. And guess what, I don't come to the thread about the TV show to be lectured by you since you can't scream at Martin in person about what an !@#$%^&*] you think he is.

Perhaps you're right. I have no idea why I would think you have a problem with HBO's Game of Thrones, here, in the "HBO: Game of Thrones" thread.

Yes. The show which, according to your previous post, you apparently hate and resent. In other news sure to make you upset, here is a casting notice from Winter Is Coming. The site speculates that the young girl being cast is in fact - I'm spoilering that, but these new notices really tell me, a person who goes without GOT spoilers as much as possible, nothing much except that these new characters will appear. I'm excited about the angle.

At least you're not bitter, in the PrimetimeOxides section of the television message board in a thread labeled "HBO: Game of Thrones".