titan1978

I would also argue that she did loose Gary as well, and she seemed genuinely in love with him up to a point. By season 7 the writers were done with them, and Abby was too.

I think the right decision was made in regards to Sean and Tiffany at the time, to rest the characters. I could have easily seen a place for Tiffany down the road as a supporting player, possibly involved in media stories with a younger set of characters. I think she would have fit in quite well with Jax, Kate, Lulu and Maxie at Crimson. Her becoming a PR person feels natural to me. And I enjoyed Sean, but him being revealed as the big bad with the virus makes way more sense than Holly. His whole foundation was based in going outside the lines when it was necessary or suited him. Sure he was a good guy by the time he left, but I think the swing is much easier to believe with him. Labine spoke about inheriting a show that was filled with characters that were left over from the last three regimes, not really families per se, and her focus on the hospital was to both ground the show and also give a central hub for a foundation. The hospital and Luke & Laura were the spokes that touched everything.

Those three seasons are Knots in my mind. From Ciji to the twins. I loved the whole show, but that’s the core to me, the greatest era.

As a kid watching back then I thought they played that there was some emotion still between them. From the wedding flashbacks to establish their history when she first arrived to how Duke was at times angry and jealous of Robert’s place in their lives. It was part of the story when Grant Putnam kidnapped her. The audience did favor Robert/Holly and Anna/Duke though. I liked them together and I loved their wedding at Lila Quartermaine’s garden, with all the large hats. Anna was my favorite character. When she was gone I was almost gone too. But habit and then my teen gay hormones kicking in when Jagger arrived kept me watching. I was at the perfect age for Jagger/Karen/Brenda/Jason/Robin/Stone. Riche really lucked out while rebuilding things with that teen squad and the Ryan/Felicia story both capturing the audience that was left. I was way more glued to those stories than I had been during Monty’s return year.

Like Rose on ATWT, this is such a great example. The road to get there was rocky, but the climax was fantastic. And the follow up with Diane feeling betrayed.

He has been very open in interviews, especially in the last few years, that Monty was not on top of her game in her second run. That she was behaving unreasonably, and both he and Finola have spoken about how she was treated on her last day by Monty. That her exacting standards were not working this time around. He even alluded to thinking that she was having some kind of mental issues brought on by the loss of her husband, and her heart wasn’t in it anymore. He very well may have intended to leave with or without Monty- but he was not happy with Gloria when he ultimately did. And Riche did try to keep him and Finola, so she had some idea that he might stay without Monty.

I think the nature of Luke and Laura as characters having their original foundations built on more realistic ground by Marland and PFS made them fit in to the tone Riche and Labine were going for pretty seamlessly. At that point, I thought Robert actually needed a rest, and I cannot imagine Tristan in 1993 fitting in with what they were doing. When he came back for the hospital virus storyline I was happy to see him, and I had been sick of him back when he left. But then again, as Nighshift season two showed, Tristan was more than capable of grounded stories and a vulnerable Robert. Finola I can easily see working on the show at almost any point.

This whole baby plot should have been dropped or postponed due to the casting merry-go-round. It is unfortunate what the last few years have done to Alexis. One of the things Guza and his team did that I liked was the Davis girls and their relationships. I also have to agree about Sonny- if he has to be here and always in story, don’t make him an idiot for a plot to work. Historically he has so many issues that it would be more believable to give him things that distract him, not blatant stupidity.

Reading the recaps @depboyhas graciously been providing us, it seems to me that Diana Tayor kind of nudged Jessie off the frontburner, and took her place as Phil’s main focus. I know when he is killed Jessie is a big part of that story. Denise said in an interview that they had a female doctor coming on that was meant for Steve Hardy. Just the bare bones of the character, and once she was on set and in scenes they determined the Steve thing wasn’t going to work. Then they built a backstory for her. I think her essentially firing Finola Hughes and Tristan Roger’s quitting and basically telling ABC it was because of Monty that did her in. That was her two biggest stars on the show at that time. More than one cast member complained up the ladder that she was not on top of her game. Her husband had either passed away just before she arrived or soon into her run. She was inflexible and her instincts were just pissing everyone off that worked on the show.

The numbers were strong but the show was not in a good place. I get them looking for a change. IMO back then I know I felt it was better during Wes Kinney’s run as EP compared to Hardy, especially his last year or so. I also get them thinking it needed something like a drastic reset. We were not that far from Casey the alien, fake Duke dying again, etc. Monty should have followed what worked at the start of her first run- strong writing, refocus the characters already there, and slowly move some out while implementing her new vision. The first time around she eventually got rid of even fan favorites without the show losing ground (Diana, Peter, Jeff, etc), brought in whole new families and people ate it up.

That interview actually makes me sad for today’s soaps. An idea generated from outside the writing team, and the HW knows nothing about any of the players involved from that time period to draw on organically. I am enjoying the story, just makes me sad about the state of things.

To me it equates to when the shows stoped writing the women as complexly, and turned all the depth and attention to the men, and only the ones that were edgy. Victoria is a perfect example of when things went wrong- Heather Tom was fighting against her character becoming primarily a romantic lead. And that is what I think of Victoria now- primarily a character driven by her relationships with men. Yeah, it is so strange to me. But look at the last 20 years- these business/non creative folks running studios now hardly make any content directed towards women anymore. I think the last decade it has gotten especially bad. Barbie should be a huge signal to them but it won’t be, because until more women are in the decision making positions at every studio, it’s an uphill battle.

Something very important and not mentioned yet is that Bill Bell understood the daytime audience. He wrote these shows mostly from the women’s perspective. He didn’t forget his audience was mostly made up of women. When I was an avid watcher of Y&R, all these women (and probably more) were on the show at virtually the same time. Katherine, Jill, Nina, Ashley, Nikki, Leanna, Sheila, Lauren, Tracy, Drucilla, Olivia, Cassandra, Cricket…I’m sure I am missing someone. Closely followed by Victoria and Sharon. These are all complex, individual women with their own points of view, their own vulnerabilities, established backgrounds, motivations and storylines. Some of them never crossed paths. And plenty of sex appeal- Malcolm, Ryan, Paul, Brad, etc. The men were complex too- but the women outnumbered them and were often the best parts. On DAYS he had Laura, Julie, Marie, Susan, etc. All complex and vital characters, and always front and center.

And it never hit those numbers again, never a 7 or higher again IIRC. Her intentions were correct- more grounded characters, more modern concerns, better representation of economic differences. Her instincts and writing team didn’t help execute that vision. Unfortunately she tried to shove too much new down viewers’ throats, and the Eckerts were not well positioned at all. The Quartermaines became support players, and the new cast members were not very popular. I know I only liked Mac and Julia in that whole bunch of characters. Nobody wanted Tony Geary on GH as anybody but Luke. Within her first year, Wendy Riche added her own sensibilities which leaned more naturally into a grounded show, and by the time Luke & Laura returned and the Labine’s material started, it was a really strong show again. What I wonder is if Riche had arrived earlier instead of Monty round 2, what would that have been like? Did GH have to crater in the ratings for the audience that would accept the more grounded vision? Or could she have hung on to those higher numbers? Would the audience in 1991 accept that GH?

Kay Alden reinvigorated the show. It had largely been coasting for a couple of years. So much focus on the Newman family. Sharon and Nick were practically on every day, and to me they were bland AF back then. Bell’s last year started the ball rolling. But her first year laid the kind of groundwork that should have fueled the show for years. Jill/Katherine back at it. Glo by Jabot. Mac/Billy, the resurgence of the Abbott family. Rumor has it she and Ed Scott were wrestling for control of the show, which didn’t help.

It was the filming style too- the kind of detached quality was accentuated by the staging. The ubiquitous foreground character and the person in the background shots, the specific way characters talked to themselves sometimes, the story isolation, the music. I think Marland’s work, especially on ATWT had that detached air as well. But it was very much a kitchen sink type of drama. Of the three of them, I think Agnes Nixon’s work was the most modern, even going all the way back to OLTL. She had her finger on the pulse and deeply understood the traditions of the medium. Which really was present in the early 90’s- Victor, Nikki, and Victoria were often awful to other characters. Nick had the Newman arrogance, but not tinged with as much classism as Victoria. It didn’t make them any less compelling or make me want them to not be there. Look at Lauren- she’s a monster to Traci, and all the way through Sheila has an edge. Plus my favorite Katherine is the one cutting up photos of Jill and Jack in bed together, and then trying to drive a wedge between Jill and Phillip II. Complex without going too far.

As others have said- he really explored the inner person with every major character on his shows. I can only speak for Y&R, and you knew the psychology of those people and why they made the choices they made. When he was on top of his game, Y&R was lushly produced, and filled with fascinating characters all dealing with their various psychological issues. It did gothic well, and was very much like an old Hollywood film at times. I have described his style as cerebral and a bit chilly before on this board. It’s always been my impression, especially with Y&R in the 80’s and 90’s before he retired. The characters had emotions but something about the way the show was put together sometimes gave it a detached air. When I watch what little there is if his DAYS available I don’t feel the same way. But that’s the differences between the Horton family and the characters he drew from on Y&R.

Honestly, that’s even worse. These people know how to run a factory production line and have forgotten all about basic entertainment. I hope they don’t have someone discover the corpse on Thanksgiving!

Brooke had Jamie, but the show needed some teens so she also ended up adopting Laura, sharing a name with her child that was killed IIRC. Erica also had the worst one of all time- the unabortion. Alexis Davis on GH had Kristina and Molly before she remembered she had a long lost daughter that turned out to be Sam. Later retconned into being fathered by Julian Jerome. Which never made any sense to me. Brenda also had a son that she believed had died. And I felt at the time that kid was being shoehorned in because they didn’t want her to age out of having a kid. Luke and Holly also now had Ethan, which gave Holly a child and allowed Tony Geary to reinvent his character’s history in a terrible way. I’m kind of shocked they never went this route with Tracy Quartermaine. She has so many periods of time not on the show to easily fit a baby in. And she was snobby enough to abandon one that didn’t fit her image (conceived during an affair, etc). Days gave us John’s son Paul in the last few years. A son he conceived when we were watching the show.

I know I have seen photos of Alexis in drag as a butler on GH. It was during a period of time I was disgusted with the show and wasn’t watching.

It’s been at least two days in Port Charles since Austin was killed, based on the changing clothes and pacing. Nobody is missing this guy? Not work? Not even a scene of Ava flashing back to their last conversation? The way they are playing this is beyond strange. Zero continuation for 3 full days? It was the cliffhanger! I don’t know what’s worse- seeing Finn all the time or having to hear all the characters talk about him.

It was beyond gross. Add in having to watch Marty basically be in second position of importance behind her son Cole. Puke.

There was still some life left there. And I actually enjoy Paige but I get many fans dislike of her as the central character. I kind of agree with Donna Mills though- at that point there wasn’t much left for her to sink her teeth into, and Abby was becoming dangerously close to just being a scheming vixen for the sake of it. The best part about Knots was that the characters had the depth and meaning. We watched Abby grow and find power. Seeing her scramble against Paige was not worth watching. I think there was a great thread that could have been followed with Abby though. A continued bid for power that ultimately cost her everything. I know Donna wanted to tell a story where Abby loses, and is practically homeless. I think there was a path to telling that story and possibly even having Abby build herself back up without being as nefarious as the first time around. Not completely defanged but going through tremendous growth. Like during the period of time when she had Lotus Point, was more concerned with her children’s well being and was content, even without Gary. She was still ruthless at times. But not the way she was before the twins were taken.

I will never understand the decision to do that with Marty. Beyond tone deaf. I was excited to have her back for a minute. I knew they couldn’t recapture the weight of her original run but it ended up worse than I could imagine.

I don’t watch B&B, but I remember this from the board. How did Oliver also not know this was not his young, virginal girlfriend? As cute as Oliver is, his body type could not have been more different from Ridge.