DRW50

What a huge joke, all around.

3 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

What are you basing the idea about those believing the worst of him? Social Media? 

That's part of it, and also approval ratings, which just collapsed around late 2021 and never recovered. Even for such polarized times they feel low to me compared to his actual record. I can see why some people would break with him over Gaza (although many of the people who have been most vocal never supported him anyway, as shown with the leaders of the "Trump wouldn't be so bad" leftist movement in Michigan), but this happened before then. There's just a level of complete detachment that does make me uneasy about some voters who do hate Trump being tempted to stay home or throw away their vote. 

Hopefully the polls will be wrong again, as they were in 2022, and Trump won't overperform the way he did in 2016 and 2020.

5 hours ago, JaneAusten said:

By the way stop watching MSNBC who is an arm of the Trump campaign from what I hear. I was listening to a local radio station, WCBT 820 AM the progressive station, and a gentleman called in, a black man, saying he is retired and he loves to listen to news.  He chastized Fox and MSNBC, MSNBC in particular because apparently all they do is talk about Trump non stop. I don't know because I don't watch it anymore.

And here is an example of what trash NBC and MSNBC are

NBC hires former RNC chair Ronna McDaniel, who has demonized the press and refused to acknowledge Biden was fairly elected | CNN Business

Disgraceful.  You hire this disgrace of a human being. That says everything about how there is no left in the media just sesationalistic garbage.

I talked a bit about this in the media thread. I have long had my doubts of anything on MSNBC being liberal. I think it's all just a pushback game. I saw that RFK Jr did an interview with NYT where he went out of his way to trash them as being in the tank for Biden. That is very much BS, as they've gone out of their way to cause him to lose this year alone. Yet when they hear these accusations, they will work even harder to prove they are not supporting him. The same goes for MSNBC, which still gets that tag even after day after day of Kornacki, Katy Tur, Andrea Mitchell, etc. 

I do agree with you about polls to a certain extent, but one of the things that really hurts with Biden getting any improvement on certain issues is many seem to always believe the worst of him, trained by nihilism of social media and by his not fitting what they want to worship the way they worshiped Bernie (before they also turned against him). I don't really know how much social media these days is an indicator, but I also feel like some younger people have become more right wing and socially conservative and bigoted. So when I see polls talking about increasing support for Trump among younger people, or among minority groups, it doesn't feel off to me, but the margins do feel too high. 

I guess it depends on how much I can put my trust in the voters at large not being dumb enough to fall for the RFK Jr stunt, or in forgetting how much damage Trump did. And it's hard to do that. because Trump and the whole cult surrounding him have been chugging along for 8 years now (and so much of that cult was already building before he ever went down that escalator).

10 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

The GOP is chaos personified. How many House Republicans are leaving now? I’ve lost count.

I've never seen anything like it. Ken Buck and Mike Gallagher are very right wing figures yet this no longer matters because now it's all about being a MAGA stunt queen. They both ended up leaving in a way that knocks the House GOP in the chops.

I look at polls out today like the one claiming that Trump is leading by 8% in Michigan or all the polls about how well he is doing with minority voters or young voters, and even as I want to think the polls aren't reliable, I still feel like there is such a disconnect with the reality of the GOP and what the public sees them as being. Helped by a media that is more in bed with them than ever.

1999 is also a period which goes for long stretches without a headwriter. There were claims JFP was just happily headwriting the show herself. Then ABC moved Megan McTavish over.

There was actually a great deal of negative attention in the soap magazines to the changes in Becky Lee, which probably shows the popularity of the character in spite of her decade away. I have sometimes wondered if that's the reason the story was junked, although there were probably about six reasons. At least she was written more like her normal self when she was back on briefly when Bo was doing his Weekend at Drew's routine.

The changes to Rachel were horrific and degrading. The material she got under Sandra P Grant felt sadistic and, at times, outright racist. Sandra was better served singing karaoke on a Bruce McCulloch SNL pre-tape a few years earlier than she was by her OLTL run.

31 minutes ago, Vee said:

I think a lot of us are fascinated with LOV for a lot of reasons, not just those of us who love the Murders but also particularly the protean nature of the show; how it morphs into so many different shows and canvases over and over, especially in the '90s. There's so many disparate pieces that work or could work. But I would disagree that there's not much of Agnes in it. I said in the past and stand by the idea that it can be seen as an Agnes test laboratory for various stories, concepts, character archetypes, etc. which she revisited over and over through her career, including again and again at AMC in later years - in addition to Ava and Kate, Ally, etc., I think Cooper and Hannah, Steffi, etc. all are descended from Phil and Tara and other Agnes young love attempts, and can be seen to prefigure Becca and Scott, Greenlee, etc., all the way down to Pete and Celia and poor sweet suffering rich boy A.J. at AMC 2.0. You have various goofball characters (Egypt) that resemble her AMC successes or that she later tried to recreate again (arguably in the redemption attempts with Kate Collins' Janet at the end of AMC in summer '11, and Billy Clyde on AMC 2.0); you have the older Black character who is clearly an analog for Sadie Gray after Agnes tried and failed to port Ellen Holly and Lillian Hayman from OLTL to LOV. Here, in this misty little show too few watched, Agnes tinkered with her private fascinations over and over. That's a big part of what makes me often revisit the show, in addition to the unique visions of other writing teams coming in over and over trying to reconfigure the show to new visions from those parts. And that's not even getting to the Marland stuff early on.

I can definitely see Minnie as potentially filling the role Sadie could have had.

It's interesting how much better the young love elements of Loving were (especially the Cooper/Ally/Casey/Steffi quad) compared to what happened with AMC in the '90s and early '00s. I'm not sure why - maybe more ABC influence and poorer producers and writers. 

I wish Agnes could have done more about the hatchet job on Egypt in her '94 return.

59 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

I do think LOVING probably had more in common with a “sleepy/safe” P&G soap like SEARCH (no offense to it, there are eras I’m fascinated by with that show too) than much of the ABC Daytime lineup it was paired with. 

That makes a lot of sense. It also helps explain why I was interested in the show. The Loving Murders does feel like something that could have ripped through a P&G town (like AW...repeatedly).

Thanks for letting me know. Still need to try to watch those specials.

A banner day for NBC, which seems to be sinking in the same mire as it was when Matt Lauer practically gave Trump a lap dance.

28 minutes ago, Khan said:

 Curiously, she doesn't mention it all in her memoir, which suggests to me that even Agnes Nixon had written off the show by the end of her life.  Just as I'm convinced that Douglas Marland took his name off the show before exiting, because he knew the show was a dud, lol.

Thanks. I can see why she wouldn't, as it wasn't one of her successes, and you can't say it changed television the way OLTL or AMC did. I'm not even sure you can find the Nixon trademarks (other than a third generation Rachel and Ada and I suppose some of the gothic elements). Yet it is probably the Nixon show I am most intertwined with (along with OLTL), and honestly now that I think of it, it was Loving that got me into ABC soaps in the first place. So any annoying opinions I've had on GH, AMC or OLTL over the years, people can blame on Loving.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

it was Jeffrey Osborne who wrote and performed that "L-O-V-I-N-G" theme, not Mathis.  (But I do agree with the lyrics being terrible.  Between the generic, perfume-sounding title and the show's utter lack of identity, everyone who tried to compose a theme song for the show had zilch to work with, lol.)

Ugh. I swear I knew that, just half-asleep. Thanks.

42 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

 That said, its often generic brand of soap storytelling looks so much more appealing today when daytime is in the condition it's in. And despite the low ratings, the show always visually looked good and did cast some charismatic actors during its run. 

I do wonder if that is one of the reasons why the show tends to get a lot more talk (on here, anyway) than some of the bigger soaps that were more successful (or at least more clearly defined). You can try to pick the show apart and put it back together. I feel a certain bizarre loyalty to it, maybe because the time I got into the show was at such a rollercoaster (the Loving murders). 

I suppose that is also why Agnes kept going back. (did she ever say very much about the show in her later years?)

They also just uploaded a number of August 1981 episodes.

41 minutes ago, Kane said:

I think the Hart to Hart comparison was referring to Jack and Stacey's role in the two Clays story. When Alex realizes that he was brainwashed when he was a POW, it's Jack and Stacey who end up doing the investigating and Stacey figures out what Alex's trigger is. I'm not sure how it played, but on paper it reads like busywork to keep the two characters busy in between stories of their own.

Thanks. That makes sense. Something they might have benefited from trying more often rather than where they ended up going with them.

Never mind - I got the dates wrong and Horan was in the July 1989 episode, not the December 1988.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

It doesn't even make sense!  Jack and Stacey as Corinth's answer to Jonathan and Jennifer Hart?  In what universe?

I wonder how quickly those plans were abandoned. I know Stacey does some sleuthing but I remember it with Trucker. 

I was thinking about your comments on the Johnny Mathis theme songs. They were very true. I prefer the second Mathis theme song to the first, but the lyrics are hilariously terrible. "Look into my eyes...I could use a little LOVING..." "The one thing we should cherish, now and forever, is L-O-V-I-N-G." 

57 minutes ago, dc11786 said:

I don't think resting the character of Rick was a terrible idea though I never can remember at what point in the story James Horan arrives as Clay. Clay was just meeting Rick so there was story to explore there especially given Clay's own outsider status, while I could also see Rick potentially feeling closer to Alex.

On paper, Horan was probably the least dynamic Clay, but something about his portrayal always clicks home for me. I especially wish we'd gotten more of his dynamic with Alex. I liked that in that episode, Mantooth and Horan even have variations of the same hairstyle. Probably not intentional, but visually, it works well for where they were in their lives. 

You're so right about the characters of Jack and Stacey mostly being stripped bare. Most of the longtimers on Loving had that problem, except maybe Ava, and you just had to rely on the actors to keep the scraps together. 

I noticed Ann in the July 1989 episode. I had forgotten she lasted that far into 1989. She seemed very much like a spare part. 

45 minutes ago, Kane said:

SOD's comings & goings blurb characterizes Nummi's exit as a show decision:

"Ron Nummi (Rick Alden) - Nummi, who joined the cast in 1987 as the Aldens' black sheep son, Rick, emerged as a central character when Rick became involved in a steamy illicit relationship with Stacey Forbes (Lauren-Marie Taylor). Now, however, the writers have opted to reconcile Stacey and her husband, Jack (Perry Stephens), and turn them into an amateur detective team, a la Hart to Hart, thus making Rick expendable."

However, when Fitzpatrick joined, SOD also made a point of the fact that Nummi was supposedly let go for lack of story and yet the character was brought back within a couple of months.

Although I haven't seen much of his time on the show, I've always liked Nummi in what I have seen and thought it was a shame that the show didn't try to take him in another direction after breaking up Rick and Stacey.

Thanks. I didn't even see any of the Hart to Hart material...

I would have rather they just let him leave alive than bring him back to kill him off. Nummi is an interesting presence who would have been better served focusing on his relationships with the Aldens rather than the not especially interesting drama with Jack and Stacey.

Thanks @Soapsuds . I was tempted to watch, but I was tired. I wonder if any of the hot button issues (the vocal fan hate he received or the whole steamy affair with Lesli Kay) were mentioned. 

Coulouris was a very charismatic guy, great look too, but to me he always seemed best suited to softcore. Unfortunately for him the genre was mostly dried up by then. 

51 minutes ago, Kane said:

Those character confessional style promos are from 1989. I recall seeing other ones of Rocky, Trisha, and Trucker.

Nummi left in December 1989. In 1990 Rick was briefly played by Brian Fitzpatrick before the character was killed off.

Thanks. I thought it must have been a misdate.

(this has probably been discussed before but did Nummi want to leave the role?)

1 hour ago, denzo30 said:

If i remember she filled in for a few months.  I wonder what was wrong with Ford at the time.  I did not think that Peg Murray was a very believable Ada but I have def. have seen worse.

She's a bit too sweet to be Ada, but then there's only one Constance Ford.

Thanks again for tagging me @slick jones 

I put a link to ten Loving episodes in the show's thread, although you may already have all the details on those.

Jim Muneco uploaded some OLTL videos. A few episodes were already up at present but I'm not sure these were (one is a Soapnet airing).

A promo I hadn't seen before. I wonder if the date is accurate as I thought Ron Nummi had left by this point.

The Jim Muneco channel put up ten episodes from 1988-1990. I'll just post the first to save space.

The January 5th episode was already on Youtube (with commercials), but the copy on this channel has better picture quality.