DRW50

43 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Yes, pills, not alcohol. And, it has been noted that both Curtis & Sasha, pill addicts, drink. 

Why does the show have so many pill addicts on the current canvas? I know it's an epidemic these days but I'm surprised. 

They should have done the recent Hollyoaks story where a number of characters accidentally took bad pills and died.

15 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I did find that Ben Hendrickson and Mary Ellen Stuart had stellar chemistry in the one clip of them in the hotel together that I once saw. Wasn't this around the time that Hal found out that Darryl was Jennifer's dad? Regardless, that would've been interesting to explore as you would've had not only Barbara not being a big fan of the pairing but Margo too. 

I do with that ATWT (and I don't know if they did) would've tried to get MES back as Frannie. The show always needed a Hughes family ingenue as the central heroine and we never got that again after Frannie left. I would've loved for Rex to have been brought back along with Carolyn and how that dynamic would've played out with an adult Jennifer too. 

"The truth about Jennifer." 

Tom also would have been upset. 

I don't know if they ever asked MES or not. It felt like they mostly stopped caring after 1993 or so - whenever Sabrina's last appearance was. 

3 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Backtracking to Gavin, I find all his scenes to be him smothering Barbara in a sense. Thank God Ben Hendrickson came back around that time. 

I do agree that while hoping through the episodes last night, Gavin (and Darryl) consumed a bulk of the airtime during that time. Marland was smart that he knew to tie many of these characters to established characters we cared for. 

Colleen Zenk complained in the press about the writing for Barbara in the Barbara/Gavin pairing - she felt that Barbara was being too naive, IIRC.

That whole crew was very heavy. I think that's one of the reasons the story is remembered as flagging out, with the Harpers, Daryl, Arthur (one of my final flashes before I go will probably be Rex Smith saying "Arthur"), etc. I think Marland managed to still keep it worth watching, but the real impact was lost due to his death meaning Frannie never returned (cameo aside) and we lost all the drama with Frannie and Barbara we should have had. I still wonder if he was going to pair up Frannie/Hal.

10 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

 

No love for Lonnie McCullough?

I actually do wonder how he might have been in another role - maybe another of Iva's doomed boyfriends (although she was nearly gone by then). He was just all wrong for Linc.

26 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

And what is everyone's opinion of Marcy? I get the impression that she was filling the void that was left by Julie and Emily at the time as Oakdale's minx. I liked watching her stick it to Connor by snagging Linc. It made me feel an ounce of pity for Connor after did Lucy dirty as she got the company but didn't get her dream man. 

I surfed through episodes on playlists during 1991-1992 just for the Worldwide arc. But I know I need to go back and fully watch again as I need to go back and watch Jess/Duncan's arc in full. Wasn't Gavin Kruger a racist turd to Jessica and poking fun at the relationship with Duncan at that time? 

He was a racist, yes. He was too dull and unpleasant a character for all the airtime he received. 

Marcy was fun. I remember when she briefly returned in 1994, Michael Logan praised it on Pure Soap as it meant at least something was happening. Similar to Tess, she was probably closer to early Meg than Julie or Emily as she was just a blatant schemer...she was so blatant that it made Linc and his mother look foolish (although neither were known for their brains). It wasn't a strong story but worked fine as a support plot chugging along. I do wish they'd found some way to keep James Wleck as I thought he was just gorgeous. No comment on the recast...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/05/20/trump-muslims-arabs-michigan-election/

The latest shift in the attempt to get Muslim voters to support Trump (something many on the left and right have been doing eagerly for years now and they just use the carnage in Gaza as justification).

9 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

To Leslie Denniston's defense, I think the character of Maeve was supposed to be boring. I don't know why but I remember Reva, upon meeting her, cattily remarked, "She's kind of quiet, isn't she?" It may have been good acting instead of bad acting on  Leslie's part. I think Maeve was supposed to be the anti-Reva. The opposite of loud and over the top. 

I think Leslie was a competent, likeable actress. She was a good balance with Fletcher, as @P.J. mentioned, as he was go-go-go and she wasn't. I just think such a wan role needed a performer who could give more of an inner life. I'd say someone like Cindy Pickett, who made Jackie such a vibrant character even though most of her stories were about pining and suffering.

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

Lots of things led to where we are today. That doesn't mean I would trade any one of those stories being told for a better show in 2024.

I wouldn't say the stories should never have existed...I just meant it's depressing going back to that time and feeling the panic and the tilt toward what Guza brought in, followed by the panic over what happened when his filth stopped working for viewers, and the swerve into where the show has been over the past decade. I wish there had been a world where the stories had been better received, although I guess those trends were inevitable.

3 minutes ago, Vee said:

Most of those storylines are famous and very well-remembered and praised to this day though, so in the long-form analysis decades later does the ratings drop (and IIRC Labine leaving voluntarily, to do Heart and Soul which didn't pan out) matter?

It matters in the sense that I think the reaction they had to the ratings helped lead directly to where we are today. With that said, if the show was capable of telling these stories now, I'd support them. I'm just not sure viewers as a whole would.

34 minutes ago, Vee said:

Is it though? We've seen couples stans lash out at them with anyone but their chosen fave for decades.

We have, yes, with people who lash out at the story and even send out threats and act like lunatics, but seeing people act physically sick over the whole thing and go on about how Drew was her abuser...that was what felt new to me.

21 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Certainly in the 90s with Stone & AIDS & Robin & HIV & Monica's breast cancer, we were about as detailed as one probably could get. 

They were, yes. Unfortunately, the response to those (ratings drops and the ushering in of Guza and his sicknesses) does make me wonder again if soap viewers just didn't want to see the real life illness plots.

I didn't see any of the older plots either - if there were a large amount of painstakingly realistic illness stories on soaps in the '50s and '60s and '70s, my apologies to the people who wrote them.

Just now, Vee said:

Except that isn't about puritanism IMO. That's about stans of the Nina character being overprotective of her, disliking Drew (which they have a right to) or in many cases committed to one pairing (Sonny) which is done.

I see what you mean, but I would say that only wanting a soap character to have any kind of passion with one character and being so vehement when that doesn't happen is also part of the new puritanism.

9 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Grudgingly I gave Easton major props for that scene today. It reminded me that he is a talented actor who has been criminally underused. 

What does this mean? Agnes, at GL, Bert's uterine cancer, was legendary. At AW Irna had Pat have an illegal abortion & become sterile as a result. (Later went away, of course, and had twins.) Of course, Miss Susan had an actual woman in a wheelchair & the audience was offended. 

I think he's been used a generous amount given his very limited range. I respect him for trying today, and I know he's been going through a lot recently per the article about Kamar, but when I just see the effort, I can't connect.

It means that those writers and soaps in general in those years were more likely to be vague about soap illnesses than later writers who felt more obligated to try to write a specific illness even though they weren't capable of making it feel real. People remember the legendary issue stories, but most illness stories back then were not so detailed. 

The abortion plotline is another subject entirely and I'm not sure what I should say about that part.

12 minutes ago, ranger1rg said:

It's definitely worth the effort, because it's a staple of daytime. You cannot be saying that soaps need to stay away from romance/sex because it might not work.

It used to be, but I'm not sure these days. The demos who watch soaps now don't seem as interested, younger people don't seem as interested, etc. Looking at the response to Nina/Drew, for example, outside of a few fans, reminded me of how much times have changed. I hear people say they want to see a character being a ho, but the reality seems to be different. I do think the show needs stronger relationships in general, along with actual storylines and characters who have more of a spark to them.

39 minutes ago, detroitpiston said:

Yup. I feel bad for Easton because he seemed to be doing decent work but the directing and editing choices stifled his performance impact. The set up kind of reminded me a lot of “The Body” from Buffy but a very paint by numbers version that lacked the real devastation and heartache. Man where is JFP when you need her???

The scene where Finn was over Gregoy's corpse, weeping, looked like someone trying to recreate a painting. You could sense the "moment" rather than feeling a genuine response.

14 minutes ago, carolineg said:

I also agree about Gregory's death.  This may sound morbid and I really have 0 medical knowledge, but he seemed okay and then just died.  I understand ALS is tricky, and they drew out Mike's story for a very long time and it was depressing, but i think there might have been more to squeeze out of this story?*

Coronation Street is currently telling an ALS story which has gone on for over a year, and they've shown the loss of function over that time - no longer being able to walk, or speak, and recently, putting in a feeding tube. I question whether viewers actually want to see this (it hasn't helped the ratings, although Corrie, like all the British soaps, is just about unwatchable these days anyway), but they are committing more. Generally, I do feel like daytime just isn't a great place for this type of plot - much as we all probably used to laugh at "soap opera disease" when we were younger, I wonder if Bell, Nixon, Irna, etc. had the right idea.

I do wonder if there is any particular heat with the twenty/thirtysomething cast, or if any attempt at such is just stumbled upon. Even if Chase left and Amanda Setton got down and dirty, this just isn't that type of show. I know DAYS has a lot more sex, but any time I watch and see them try it just feels cold and forced to me, not helped by charmless Ken dolls like RSW. So even if GH did go in that direction, would it work? Is it worth the effort?

I saw some of the Dex and Joss scenes today, which admittedly were not meant to be hot stuff, but I was reminded of how old and played out Joss feels - even more than her mother.

The one younger couple I can remember interesting me, somewhat, in recent times was Spencer and Trina, and you know nobody at GH gave a damn about that pairing.

1 minute ago, Vee said:

I was very impressed with the material posted from this a couple years ago and always wanted to see the whole storyline. I think Lucinda went back to her family home after this?

I think that's what led to the therapy story and flashbacks and the visit home, yes. (Hubbard later complained about how the whole thing played out onscreen but I still give Marland and Caso a lot of credit for taking that swing) I need to rewatch some of that soon. I remember some lovely scenes where John went to visit her at the stables or somewhere. 

That whole period of ATWT, 91-92, will forever fascinate me (well, mostly).

1 hour ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Y'all are going to stop coming for my toilet flush opening!  I am one of the small few that liked that theme.

That aside, I was up late last night watching Lucinda lose Walsh--really the first time I've seen those scenes. It bothered me to see my poor Lucy accept defeat so easily. I expected her to go out in a blaze; however, she took it on the chin. I find myself not liking Connor, Kirk, or Evan at all during this arc. 

The handling of the betrayal is compelling because there were so many different angles. Connor wanted the company and also wanted to punish Lucinda for her own insecurities and hurting her father. Evan and Kirk just wanted power. Holden felt he owed nothing to Lucinda because she'd already treated him like garbage. There was no good and no bad. Lucinda did pay, but unlike when OLTL did this with Dorian and she would have to go on outlandish revenge schemes, Lucinda refused to let them get her down and she retreated with dignity, only to come back stronger than ever. The whole story was very mature and I could care about everyone involved. One of the few times a corporate espionage story on a soap was worth watching, and a reminder that you can tell these types of stories and have years-long consequences even without a lot of misery or slaughter.

27 minutes ago, NothinButAttitude said:

Good for her! I am glad that she corrected that error. Again, it just bothered me how Bianca became an afterthought when Lucinda loved her dearly. 

As so many old writers were pushed out, newer people would not know her. If they had brought her back, she likely would have drugged and raped Holden and tried to kill Lucinda and Lily to get their money.

@Vee

https://deadline.com/2024/05/fred-roos-dead-francis-ford-coppola-godfather-producer-1235925291/

1 hour ago, Khan said:

I remember when someone from the show (Goutman?) talked up how the globe in that opening was comprised of clips from old episodes, and I thought, "How am I supposed to be impressed by that, when we can barely see 'em!?" 

Freeze and watch frame-by-frame and I bet every one has Katie.

13 minutes ago, carolineg said:

Is GH even trying to go for a younger viewer?  Soap operas are the least progressive medium and I don't think they were trying to follow a trend.

The lack of progressiveness would actually work in this case...

I think the show makes a token effort, mostly through Joss and her burgeoning male harem. The viewers they might have gotten through Sprina they seemed to actively resent, for sadly obvious reasons.

The Trump campaign openly saying he will lead a "reich." Yet so many in the media and the public will still tell us both men are the same, or Trump is better than Biden.

https://apnews.com/article/trump-election-2024-rhetoric-germany-antisemitism-31002afb91b642c0314223d19e51f427

I think the idea of Kyle had potential (much more than what AW did with Sharon Gabet), and I think he worked well with Kim Zimmer and most of the other people in the cast. His acting was theatrical, but this was a very theatrical era for the show. 

I just don't believe the stories were compelling - they were unpleasant (everything with Roxy), convoluted, and gave you no real reason to care. The Maeve material was like something out of a '30s movie, and in order to avoid having her get into it with Reva, Miss Sally had to run around doing everything.

Leslie Denniston was also extremely dull as Maeve. 

If P&G were going to try to find a role for Sharon Gabet, bringing her in as Maeve might have been more interesting. I can already see the print ads - "The one woman who could come between Kyle and Reva." 

There is a genuine pushback among younger people about sex scenes in movies and television. A viral tweet went around from one of them saying they wanted the Hays Code to return. I don't know if the treatment of Chase and Brook Lynn is meant to appeal to that audience. Probably not. 

I get the feeling the show mostly gave them a big wedding because there wasn't anyone else to do that with at present and this was initially planned as a moment of change/a new era for the show, until the caving and backpedaling began.