November 21-25, 2011

[Max]

I'm pretty sure that GH had better ratings and demos than OLTL did for the whole year prior to the April cancellation announcement. If ABC now decided to uncancel OLTL and axe GH, there would be such a huge s#itstorm that what happened this year would look like a Sunday School picnic in comparison.

[EricMontreal22]

They won't though. With the new hirings of FV and RC, etc, it'd be way beyond complex to do that and not something ABC would consider anyway with the limited lifespan of their soaps.

[Saving ATWT]

I am still sort of suprised that CBS killed Capital, and that PGP didn't make a bigger fuss about ATWT loosing the sweet 1:30 slot in the east. Had things stayed the same, ATWT might still be pulling 2.3 HH numbers from such a powerful lead in such large markets.

With that said, go B&B! The soap is growing even with the Y&R drop. Back in the day, it seemed like they more than less rose and fell in tandam.

So happy for Days! Glad to see OLTL wrapping up on a high note as opposed to all the other recent cancellations. GL, ATWT and AMC all suffered for the final months.

[Saving ATWT]

Thank you--I've made the same point in the past whenever people bitch about how 'bad' Y&R is doing while chanting cancellation. A 3.4HH these days is GREAT and just about every show has some sort of year to date flux.

Another point that needs to be made is that HH, in conjunction with demos, does matter and has for a long time been the metric by which CBS has renewed/cancelled. Y&R is only slightly stronger in demos than GH yet we here zero talk about cancellation and overall budget cuts have been rather small when compared against other non-network owned soaps.

Lastly, TV has changed a lot over the last decade and the networks have lost a massive amount of viewers. With this said, one would expect daytime to see major drops and I don't think this shift translates into the death of the genre. Y&R type ratings are still better than CW hits and aren't that far off from Mad Men numbers. The main problem daytime faces is the inability to repeat or later syndicate episodes. I still say that the best bet for the remaining soaps would be to move over to CW or MY networks.

BTW, great point about CBS holding GL way too long. I will never understand how the soap kept going. I remember there being a rumor that CBS wanted to buy out PGP in 2002, and I've always wondered if Mooves had some sort of plan and was waiting for PGP to eventually sell. He has a golden touch when it comes to managing his prime time dramas and I think wanted to give daytime a try.

[Eric83]

I'm pretty sure February sweeps was the deciding factor of the cancelations. The Sonny/Brenda wedding helped them hit a 1.4 I think and it beat YR in total Women 18-49 viewers. Meanwhile AMC/OLTL were at like a 1.0/0.9, and I remember a week during that time they dipped to 0.8/0.7, while GH had a 1.2. OLTL didn't start beating GH until after the cancelation announcement came, and to be honest even if OLTL had been beating it, it still would have went first.

[Max]

Thank you so much for your kind words, Saving ATWT. That's an interesting (and entirely possible) speculation you had as to why GL's cancellation took so long. IMO, GL also lasted until 2009 because the lower-rated Passions itself had a long overdue cancellation. Perhaps there was also some hesitation about ending the longest running program in broadcast history, as well as the possibility that CBS was not convinced replacement programming would do any better.

Given that GL's cancellation was fifteen-plus years in the making, I was completely shocked that ATWT (which had considerably better ratings) got the axe so soon afterwards. While I knew the writing was on the wall for that soap, I expected it to last until 2012 or 2013.

[Saving ATWT]

I think the fates of GL and ATWT were innerconnected for both PGP as well as CBS. I will always believe that PGP wanted out of the business for various reasons (ratings decline plus fear of angering consumers during the 'culture wars', hence the flip to TelNext). I believe GLs decline had mostly to do with time slot issues across the country (9 and 10am in major markets) seeing as the soap was beating ATWT in demos right up until the late 1990s--World was drowning in it's own history for far too long where as GL got a few re-boots along the way.

I believe CBS cancelled ATWT so swiftly after GL because firstly, it was clear ratings were trending south, and secondly, because ATWT looked shamefully bad for the final two years due to the massive budget cuts. It was clear that Telnext would never put money in for sets much less the transition to HD. Brad Bell said that the people at TelNext made no secret of the fact that they wanted As the World Turns wrapped up and this was probably reason enough for CBS to act in kind.

By 2008, I doubt that CBS had any interest in buying any soaps; however, I am still curious as why PGP refused to sell. I read in another interview that the company responsible for the Daytime Emmy Production wanted to buy Guiding Light but was refused over creative differences. Out of any network, it would be CBS that would hold onto soaps due to Moonves desire for huge HH ratings along with the fact that CBS is the 'blue chip' network since it lacks any big studio affiliation.

I sometimes think that ATWT lived too long in that it had lost all name recognition as well as cultural realivence. Aside from NUKE, World got little attention for the final ten years--not even many soap mag covers. HS and a few Emmys does not count. ATWT got no promotion and none of the actors ever even popped up on the talk show circuit. I often got the feeling that ATWT was simply out of touch with viewers and even contemporary culture which is a fate that even GL managed to avoid.

Max, I've enjoyed your (rare) postings for some time. You have fantastic insights regarding the genre. Also, we seem to dig all the same shows

[Max]

Saving ATWT, I always enjoy reading your wonderful insights as well.

Your above post was excellent, but the only thing I would disagree with is that (I believe) ATWT still had name recognition (although I completely agree about it having zero cultural relevance). Unfortunately, when people heard the words "As the World Turns," they immediately thought "that's an old person's soap." P&G--ironically, the company with the world's greatest reputation for branding--did a horrendous job when it came to promoting the soap and keeping it relevant. (Given that P&G is rarely incompetent, the only logical explanation for this is that they indeed wanted out of the soap business, as you pointed out earlier.)

To use a car analogy, ATWT suffered from the same fate as did Oldsmobile and Mercury: both of these once popular brands (extremely popular, in the case of Oldsmobile) were perceived as old persons' cars, so the younger generation never even gave these makes a look. (Although in the case of the aforementioned car brands, their demise was solely due to incompetence and overlap with other corporate nameplates, as opposed to a desire to deliberately kill them.) So more than anything else, ATWT died because of aging demos. However, if somebody really cared about that "brand," then it might have been able to have the turn-around that Buick is having: like ATWT, Buick was notorious for having AARP-type demographics and seemed destined for extinction. However, good management created fresh, new cars (that were critically acclaimed) while keeping its historic ties as well. If there was another Marland (which I realize is really wishful thinking), ATWT could have made a similar comeback.

By the way, that is an excellent point that you made about GL's timeslot being responsible for its bad ratings; in fact--all things considered--I was impressed that GL did as well as it did given that the major markets aired it at 9 or 10 A.M. I was long pissed at CBS for allowing its local stations (many of which were owned and operated by the network) to air GL at any time other than its designated slot of 2 or 3 P.M. Furthermore, I had long wondered why PGP was renamed TeleNext (given that P&G wanted out anyway), but your above post finally gives a reason why.

[Saving ATWT]

Love the car analogy, and have noted the same thing myself in so far as that so many things from my childhood have died: Olds, Pontiac, Woolworths, soaps, HoJo's, just to name a few. I think a lot of the problem stems from the perception amongst managment that a brand is dead and that such sentiment then trickles down to consumers or, in the case of certain soaps, fans.

A Buick sort of make over would have required the network and production company to have invested both money and faith into As the World Turns. (Pam Long did this with GL and hit number one but a whole lot of long term fans on here hated it). By the late 1990's, World was on death watch and the goal of PGP was to extract as much money as possible before the bitter end. Furthermore, any real change would have been risky and a majority of brand managers are risk adverse due to fear of a segment of a given fan base screaming 'sell out', as has happened with certain Buick fans who miss their big boats and detest the new Euro-sleek roadsters. At the end, many SON posters blamed the end of the World on the lack of attention shown to Bob, Kim, and Lisa while ignoring that a new generation of people (products) must take the stage.

PGP lacked any faith in the ability of Guiding Light or As the World Turns to successfully evolve into the modern era and fans noticed. ATWT was, indeed, the Olds of the genre and needed a full gutting and refresh; however, as you have probably noticed, a majority of posters in here flinch at any such talk when it comes to 'their' show--they want total focus on yesterday even if this means a diminished prospect of a television tommorow for their soap. Recently, I have seen a lot of Y&R viewers freaking out over small changes and the all important focus on the next generation of Abbots, Newmans and assorted other players--god forbid that vets not stay the eternal focus on MAB. I'm starting to believe that a majority of brands have an expiration date and that Buick and it's brave managment is an exception but not the rule.

As an aside, GL did amazing well considering the time slot issue. The soap proved that loyal fans will migrate and almost bend over backwards for a quality show. Today, fans would turn to the web if need be and given the chance for quality programming.

[Max]

Saving ATWT, your above post was one of the most informative I have ever read during my five-plus years at SON, as you shared facts about brand management that I never before realized. If you don't mind me asking, do you have a major in marketing and/or experience in brand management (because you sure sound like you do)? (Please feel free to decline to answer this question if you prefer.)

[Saving ATWT]

No, went to Bard College for Literature, studied a lot of pre/post colonial history and work as a bartender in NYC: Go figure. I would love to transform a soap but they no longer tape in my city. The issue of branding just seems like common sence to me--position a product accordingly for the desired outcome. Plus, I'm sort of a car geek and GM's irresponsibiity since 1980 irks me. Thank you so much for the kind words. You, too, made a keen insight with the auto anology. We seem to be each others biggest fans What do you do?

As an aside, I do give MAB credit for her management of the Y&R brand--Jabot QVC line; the manner in which she glammed up the sets, actors and overall mood--Daniel's art showing and Noah's music being an example. Poor writing not with standing, Y&R at times (almost) looks prime time with shades of the CW soap Gossip Girl. Bell seems to be one of the few show runners who gets that daytime must evolve, and has done her best to bring her show into the modern era. This is something that the PGP soaps either could or for whatever reason would not do. Her vision is far from 20/20 and she is far from the most talent writer; however, she gets that Y&R must not get trapped in the glory days of it's own history or those of its long time fans.

[Max]

Saving ATWT, thank you so much for answering my question.

I went to George Washington University in Washington, DC and was an accounting major. I got a job working as a staff accountant at a company in the insurance industry and enjoyed it. However, the company I previously worked for had been in financial trouble for a long time, and was acquired by a much larger competitor a year ago. Of course, whenever this happens, all employees (in an overhead capacity) are subsequently laid off.

I have been without a job for seven months, but am thankful that I have enough money and support to last me for a while. I have been constantly applying for new jobs (and even got some interviews), but to no avail. If I can't find another accounting job pretty soon, I may find a job in retail (which is a great interest of mine). (To become a Certified Public Accountant is out of the question, because--in addition to passing the test--the state board requires people to go back to school for an extra year, which is certainly something I can't afford.) Bartending sounds like a tough job, though it can be highly rewarding. Interestingly, one of my former co-workers is himself going to become a bartender.