AMC: Wednesday

[All My Shadows]

You know, this all convinces how much I hate the labels "gay" and "lesbian."

It seems that you can only be extremely one way or extremely the other, or, if you're like me, squarely in between. I believe that there are certain degrees of gayness and straightness and, while I know it is definitely not the intent of the writers of AMC, Bianca is a perfect example of a character who has identified herself as a lesbian only because it's one of the choices that's been put in front of her. Not the choice to be a lesbian, but the choice to call herself one.

ETA: I should mention that I know I'm not squarely in between being gay and straight. Bisexual is just so much easier to say than explaining that I'm more attracted to guys that girls...

[rsmith2k2]

Well I AM a gay woman and I believe I have the right to call myself that and it just means I am hot for women and not men. There is a difference in labels and self-identification. And I am not saying *everyone* is gay or is flexible or bi- or straight. I am saying that *Bianca* has self-identified as lesbian and has gone to lengths when coming out to force herself to be attracted to male physicality for Erica's sake and she couldn't get into it, even when getting drunk to kiss that dude in high school. She has been consistently portrayed as NOT attracted to male bodies physically and attracted to women only. This story does not honor Bianca's history or her integrity.

With all due respect, you've actually bastardized the gay postion politically right now, insofar as Being Gay is a Choice vs. Being Gay is Not a Choice. Who we love has not one damned thing to do with soul love or ignoring the external manifestations of biological gender. You are simply restating the agenda AMC and GLAAD is pushing. If no one discriminated by gender in looking for a partner based on their sexual orientation, then we'd all be bisexual. There would be no "gay," no "straight."

I have never seen, in the context of arguing against those who, for example, have made constitutional amendments around the country proscribing gay marriage, the gay movement EVER say we "don't see...man or woman." It is the proponents of The Defense of Hetero Marriage that believe being gay is a choice, not gays (for the most part, there is division of opinions in all groups). Those who fight against gay marriage, don't believe being gay is hard-wired, rather that is a behavioral choice. And that gay people can choose NOT to be gay if they try.

This romance, again whether intentional or not is giving fodder to those who believe that with the "right" man or with a "feminine enough" man that Bianca as a lesbian should find Zoe "woman enough" to satisfy her as a lesbian, even now...in Zoe's currently still 100% biologically male state.

The gay movement in general, the political line, if that's what you are discussing, has not one damned thing to do with "soul love and bodies don't matter"...I am not sure at all where that is coming from other than McT. Perhaps that is true for bisexuals or people who are more hetero/homoflexible (and I recognize that sexual orientation is a range, a scale...) but I don't think it applies to truly GAY people. Especially not as presented on AMC.

For the record, there's not a damn thing wrong with Bianca, if she were a real person, falling for whomever she chooses, whatever their gender...and I would respect that in real life. However, I still would not consider an attraction on the part of RL Lesbian Bianca to still biologically male (with inner woman, not yet physically expressed) as a lesbian one. I would consider it more bisexual than lesbian until Zoe was much further along in transition. That's not a judgement. Just don't think it's gay. But Bianca is more than just an individual character and like it or not as a nearly unique presence in Daytime, I think it's on TPTB to present Bianca in a more typical, what most people understand to be lesbian context than being in a romance with girlfriend who's physical gender is not yet available or visible. Show the rule before you show the exception. They've undershown Bianca's relationships with bio-women, have been raped away, avoided, truncated, sent it offscreen.

IMO, what goes on in RL, does not necessarily make the right story for an individual character and I don't think this story is right for Bianca. The attraction to Zarf and Zoe and the pursuit of Zoe has created hetero-dreams for Bianca in viewers who do not understand all the sensitive and complicated gender and orientation politics involved. There are straight viewers I've read on many sites who hope that Bianca and Zoe will get married, that Zoe will remain a no-op/no-hormone TG, that Bianca will have Zoe's children and Zoe will remain dressed as Zarf. They are NOT seeing the full play of layers and now either hope for something less-than-lesbian or closer-to-straight for Bianca. And for those that never wanted Bianca to be gay...well, now they have something to grab a hold of.

I want AMC to own this story if they're going to tell it, instead of treating someone changing their orientation (this is a conversion story on some levels...because if this couple was a hit with the audience, then AMC would never show Bianca with a bio-female actor as a gf EVER AGAIN and I feel confident of that) essentially before our eyes and saying it's gay, Gay, GAAAAY! They simplified and fairy-tailized this story and de-sorased Bianca's emotional maturity for this story. If they're gonna tell it...then AMC needs to be REAL about it and not gloss over the myriad issues this story raises.

So because McT was desperate and arrogant. Because GLAAD is so up it's own ass and panting after a couple of PSAs (and the are NOT a TG support organization, I've seen TGs online complaining about that fact and I have also found TG suppport for this story waning, not growing as it plays out) that it couldn't see the potential damage to Bianca's character. GLAAD couldn't or wouldn't bother to see in the context of how under-developed Bianca's lesbian love life has been for the last 7 years, that to now pair her with girlfriend played by a biological man, creates confusion, sends mixed and bad messages and while maybe educating people in some manner about TGs, misrepresenting the lesbian experience.

If the story is clouding the minds of straight viewers about what it means to be lesbian...then the

story is not worth it. And it's doing just that.

Everybody is all about Zoe's integrity. Zoe, Zoe, Zoe. Must honor Zoe. Must see her as a woman and nothing else. F*ck, Bianca's integrity as a lesbian. She must sacrifice her integrity for Zoe and there's no need to subsume one minority for another, especially when this story would have been better told and more clear for the audience has they remained friends.

This story goes to great lengths to support that Zoe is a woman, through and through, 100% at the moment she claims it, no further action required. They try to sell soul love and tell us bodies don't matter to lesbians, it's all about what's on the inside...the outside doesn't matter as long as the soul is gender-appropriate. Yet, at the same time...Zoe is going to EXTRAORDINARY lengths to change her very exterior from male to female. Why, because BODIES MATTER. It matters enough to TGs that they will make the most difficult choices a human may face. But it does matter. The show wants it every way. Mostly they want it Zoe's way at Bianca's expense, but then arguments used to support Zoe's womanhood are contradicting themselves.

[baller]

I think what it really shows is that the writers gave up on this story a while ago, because it seems that the rest of the show is getting a LOT better and this isn't at all

[ANDREA LOATHES REILLY]

Sorry, this won't fly...

Bianca fell for a man who presented himself as a man when they met. Zoarf's feelings on his/her anatomy is totally irrelevant. You see, I guess we were supposed to see the spiritual connection between the two, thus explaining how and why Bianca was feeling what she was feeling, but that is not what happened. On my screen, I saw a woman, who happens to be a lesbian, fall for a man!

So, one can only conclude that Bianca is bisexual or even trisexual, if you will...

ANDREA

[All My Shadows]

It's easy for you, though, because you, like you said, you are gay and you have absolutely no attraction towards men at all. But there are those who have slight attraction to one sex, heavy attraction to the other, or vice versa, or heavy attraction to them both, or whatever.

And I agree, it doesn't make sense at all for Bianca to fall for someone who is a man on the outside. They've never ever suggested that Bianca has had an attraction to men. Now that I think about it, this story would have been eons better had Maggie come to town and feel for Zoe. She has a fucked up sense of what her orientation is (not gay, not straight, not even bisexual), so it would have made so much more sense and I think it would have been some riveting stuff for Bianca and Maggie as a couple (given Maggie never cheated on Binks in France and they came back together when Binks returned last year).

ETA: Oh and I understand what you mean when you say that there's a difference between labels and self-identification, but in a way, I think people are very able to self-identify themselves into a label, even if they know it isn't completely true. You're 100% gay, so it's not hard for you to just say "I'm gay" or "I'm a lesbian" because it's true. It's hard for me to say "I'm gay," because sometimes I am attracted to females. I don't like saying "I'm bisexual" either because it implies that I have an equal attraction to women and men, but that's not true.

[tina m]

Colby really has matured, I thought those scenes Wednesday were great.

The end was great with all the lights off and Tad confronts Adam!

Swan song for Bianca/Zoe, that was funny that he thought Adam was the one who was the secret admirer.

Of course Lily won't see Ava!!! Grr!! I wouldn't mind seeing Jonathan/Ava, but we'll see.