Contessa Donatella

I give. What the heck is FOMO? Roger Newcomb, who created WLS is very well known & has very high esteem. Also nice guy. P&G hired him to curate their Special DVD Collections they did for ATWT & GL. The website has a new address.

Almost all so well said. But, here, you are suggesting that for a woman to go through menopause & then later become pregnant is a miracle?!!! I know I've seen it happen on at least 5 soaps, so how can that be miraculous? 😇😉🙃 Now, really, if you're gonna call out the incest at least spell it right! JAMI not Jammi. 🤣 These little things matter, right? 🤪 But, seriously, I thought that they all did a great job with the Irna tribute show.

"She played strong women but couldn't deal with one in real life." - alleged to have been said by Katharine Hepburn about Joan Crawford & intimating an alleged dalliance

A few more pages from the May 1976 Soap Opera Digest (with Suzanne Rogers on the cover)

YES!!! I thought so. I had previously said "Alamainia". It's in Europe. I realize that doesn't narrow it down a whole lot.

Yes, he's the first after the space after Ryan Quan, so the first listed of the Breakdown Writers. Probably just got cut off the top of the next screen, if you know what I mean.

Guess who has written a book?!

I happened to catch VICTOR, VICTORIA last night on Tubi & that made me think about what I call gender-bending movies, where it is my very most favorite. Close behind are TOOTSIE and SOAPDISH, although I'm not too sure it really fits. Probably the first one I ever saw, and did like, was PRISCILLA, QUEEN OF THE DESERT. What are some of your favorite gender-bending movies?

I think of us as a secret society. The only thing we have in common is this kind of maybe obsessive feeling we have about seeing every single moment of these shows, ya know, LOL! We do not FF show. We think clips are great as extras, enhancements, but never replacements for full episodes, etc. I suspect there are a lot of us. I try to think of a name for us but all I can come up with is "sticklers" which is not very positive sounding.

She comes from a theatre background & from a young age had knowledge & awareness of various BTS jobs. At some point she got formal training as a director & then began to direct for soaps. Also then she was hired to work as a Line Producer which she did for a fair amount of time. Both Directing & Line Producing were two things she was doing, in soaps, when we largely didn't hear about her any more as an actress. P&G had two people shadow Chris Goutman to learn how to be an EP. One was Ellen. The other was Scott McKinsey, director & Beverlee's son. After a considerable period of time they chose - Ellen. Paul, specifically to your point about P&G & whether they were willing to spend money on an experienced EP for GL during the period of time in question. What your thinking is dead-on. They were cheapskates but then they were about almost everything concerning GL at that time. They wouldn't even provide product for the experiment Ellen did with the little store & P&G products for sale. Edit to Add: Standard disclaimer that we know both of these sources can get things wrong. From IMDb Dir, ATWT 1999-2010 55 epis Dir, GL 2005-2009 35 epis P & EP, GL 2003-2009 315 epis P, Delta Fever (may have been director too or instead) 1987 Not Shown but I'm positive that while Conboy was at GL she was at ATWT as a Line Producer & also Directed. Wikipedia described her first directing at AW near the end, then 2 seasons directing at ATWT & also lists working as an Assoc. Producer at GL which sounds like it was just pre shadowing Goutman & being hired as EP. And, here is KZ winning Best Actress in 2006, which our rewatch Queen & often instigator mentioned. Wheeler is shown cheering in the audience & KZ thanks Wheeler by name but also Barbara Bloom & other honchos.

And, the soap press gave KZ a pass much more often than anything in any kind of attack mode. But, when they would finally step up to the plate the things they did nail her for, she most suitable deserved. And if you don't agree I can only refer you to the many episodes where this is amply illustrated.

Well, hello & welcome. I will tell you something about myself. I do not FF. By intent, I never do. I just never got in the habit of doing so. If you routinely FF you are going to miss something. It might be something that would change your mind. Soaps were never meant to be consumed this way. They need to be watched every day, for the whole show. This is my opinion, of course. Who is playing Alexandra where you are? Marj Dusay? Did you watch when Beverlee McKinsey played Alexandra?

I continue to be perplexed why people think this. Everyone was a free agent to make whatever decision they felt worked best for them. Every other person agreed to the voluntary pay cut. Who is it she was an example to? And, how was she a scapegoat? She did & said what she did & said to herself. No one did anything to her except make her the exact same offer they made everyone else. I can certainly see how Wheeler was P&G's scapegoat & sacrificial lamb. But, KZ? Maybe someone can explain it to me. And, of course there is no question that she had the right. I'm not aware of anyone ever who disagrees.

When Susan D. Lee informed AW of their cancellation even though their ratings were higher that SuBe/Beach's she informed Spelling at that time what his deal was, which was that they would have a one-time 6 month extension in exchange for some unknown accommodation. NBC half-owned them so I'm sure it was x paying y for the rest of the term rather that however it had been. At any rate Spelling was not in any position to object. But there wasn't any issue of making a decision on the Spelling Beach soap based on ratings after July 1999. It was pre-set. But, yes, they couldn't believe that PSSN hadn't immediately produced amazing ratings in all demos. They were convinced that Reilly's genius would provide something no soap fan would ever believe possible, a show where it did not have to grow its audience. NBC leadership at different times was just impossible to believe they were as out of touch as they often were. Yes, I can see that, at least theoretically.

And, they were courted in the face of the AW cancelation: ABC, FOX, what became Paramount, what became Sony & what was for a time Viacom. ABC wanted it for themselves, not a partnership. FOX also wanted it to themselves to try out having a daytime soap. But, the others all had some kind of deal in mind. Unknown what, of course. Sony was loosely allied with them on their Soap City site which covered, Bell Y&R and B&B, ATWT and GL, AW, and DAYS of course. Plus, I mean, why didn't AMC & OLTL both drop back to half hour & then intentionally program themselves together as a block. I imagine probably leadership was too chicken to try to reinvent.

Your basic idea is correct. NBC wanted to kill AW to get rid of it to put a show they would own in that timeslot. (Which one? GEN?, SuBe/Beach?, PSSN? right, probably one of them, LOL!!!) And, they wanted to kill it as far back as them forcing Swajeski to write that Jake raped Marley. Then, that desire continued, of course. NBC blocked the Dobsons coming to HW AW in the spring of 1993. At some point, they HAD to have come to that conclusion. There are a handful of people I consider to be bonafide SoapKillers. He is one, of course, but it's telling to me that he has the specific nickname "Daytime Destroyer" & what Susan Lucci said about him in her first memoir, that he combined two of the worst qualities - arrogance & ignorance. Erica Slezak had words for him, too, and neither of them said a cross word, in general for years! Oh, and we can't forget his cameo in Santa Barbara, ... as god. If that's not hubris I do not know what is!

There is absolutely no question that it is a point & a point from a specific perspective. Just as the people in different industries who have taken voluntary pay cuts to do their part in trying to keep that industry alive is just as valid & relevant a point, from another perspective. There are a few things that are key. Everyone must be asked to share their part of the burden & why it's important for execs to pony up first. And, as far as is possible the burden needs to be equal. She had a 52 week work cycle, so yes, a year before her next date came up. I never thought she took a cut at all. What I knew about Grant at the time does not match what some others say happened, so I tend to consider it disputed knowledge & don't get into it. But, I will say that consideration about Grant as Philip more importantly was about time on front burner. Just like Kim, he commanded a huge amount of front burner time & space. They were the top two who gobbled up way more than their share, just because it had evolved that way, maybe. When Grant was gone it gave a lot of people chances. But, there came a time when a lot of people felt he was needed back. So dang much change!!! If the lore is to be believed the show got rid of Michelle & Danny because of some really appalling fanbase wars. And, when they did so, they left something of a vacuum which GusH stepped nicely into. Yet, Tom Pelphrey was incredibly popular. Also Jami. And, Swajeski wrote my favorite Otalia scene, Olivia putting roses on Gus's grave, Natalia finds her there, they finally express their true feelings, in the snow, moving to the gazebo & Natalia jilts Frank & the entire Cooper family at the altar. To me the thing about the writers is that they had the hardest OJT of any because they had to figure out HOW TO WRITE for this new production model that was mandated by CBS. And, I assert that they did figure it out. Swajeski & Hurst are on my list of favorite writers. And, so many departments had such tough OJT. Sound! OY.

Great points. WORD. Hmm, I always heard that MTS had the highest Q ratings of ANY soap actress. Agree that it's ludicrous to think teens/YA only want to see people their own age. But, it was the advertisers who sold the bill of goods that one demo was more valuable than another.

But, at the same time P&G fought NBC trying to keep them from killing AW. Then, after being exhausted from internecine warfare BTS in a soap opera, summer '99 with AW's demise, they had to turn around & being to fight with CBS. Me, I am one who does not think that P&G made some calculated decision that it was time to get out of the soap business. Although, it is true that they drastically reduced the number of products they carried that required the soaps for them to advertise on. (What I recall reading was between 2000 & 2006 where more happened as they went along, they reduced their number of household products by half. Since they used to have multiple brands that is not unimaginable. But, it made the soaps much less important to them.) And, I assert that they got tired of the fight. When P&G Studios was announced as one of the sponsors of our bright shiny new soap, I was gobsmacked! Back when soaps were the golden goose that laid all those golden eggs that paid from primetime experimentation. (I know it's usually cash cow.) But, back then, there were fewer channels, soaps were produced MUCH more cheaply & as you describe things had changed. When soap journo & one of the editors of SOAP OPERA NOW, Michael Kape, interviewed the Daytime Destroyer, Brian Frons for the first time in 1983 he said that already he hated soaps & wanted to kill them & clear the daypart of them. Notably he canceled SFT twice, first on CBS & then on NBC. Then, he ended up at ABC. One very terrible day in April he was supposed to go forth & give a cancelation order to OLTL. He got it into his head to do AMC, also. We don't know whether to go with maximum insult & say it was a whim, or not. But, we also know that he wanted to do the same to GH & THE ONLY REASON HE DID NOT is that they did not have any show in the wings or even in development that they could put in its spot. After AMC/OLTL massacre he turned SOAPnet into ANOTHER Disney Jr. Then he was fired, or let go, or whatever. And, then, 3 months later, his boss, Anne Sweeney, gone, also, although I think she was promoted in Peter Principle style. His current bio says he runs a highly successful consultancy business. Yeah, right. Easy to say. I am not the first person to wonder why this industry hires saboteurs!!! And, many people from different soaps came to GL by request & appointment to see what they were doing & how they were doing it. US soaps reinvented themselves several times. GL was the last attempt. I absolutely agree. I think they knew the reality of the situation & why a sacrificial ask like that was appropriate. I only care that people think about things & not blindly believe some fiction about her refusing the pay cut out of high-minded ideals.

One word: Grady. Thanks, believe me I know it was a lucky, blessed time. You may see that I am considered a Wheeler apologist, which I own, but I hope that it is obvious that I also blame her for some specific things. Even though, the blame really fell on P&G & on CBS.

As usual you make a number of excellent points. And, that she programmed that in Feb. Sweeps, yes, it's another bungle. Not as egregious as moving Jerry to recurring, but it is def up there in her top 5, I'd say.

Where Kim's talking about EW crying falls down, is that she cried, too, as much if not more. It was high pressure, crises regularly, when KZ marched past other doors on her way to EW's, people got upset, worried, what was Kim going to say next, some of them cried, too. They knew who they were concerned about what in the h3ll she was going to say or do & I assure you it was not that were concerned that Ellen would say or do something horrible & awful to Kim. They knew who was the one who was going to raise holy h3ll & I'm sure you know who I mean. That she likely felt she could get away with the crap she pulled on a regular basis is down to her feeling about EW being a woman & younger & fitter & that in a big way she was spoiled. It only makes sense if you know anything about the people involved. And, if there had been anyone else, why wouldn't P&G have picked them? My assertion all along is that neither of their two choices were competent to the task they were set & with almost no budget, no one would have been. If anyone was a scapegoat. it was not privileged Kim, no, it was Ellen. I lived in Brooklyn from very late 1998-July 2005. My life partner was the GL Editor at Digest from early 1999 to July 2005. I had the privilege to meet most of the soap press, typically I was in the Digest office 2 or 3 afternoons & then there were activities often at night. I became personal friends with various GL people. I treasure that time. I am not an insider. Never have been. It just so happens that I knew people & know some still. If you can't tell that I am telling "stuff" I'm doing this all wrong. 😉

You know i begin in a strong way at or about Conboy & Weston. So, yes, before Wheeler. I am not concerned with KZ's feelings but I completely agree that she was within her rights to say no. Beyond that we all may have a lot of opinions. And, I think it not only make sense that we do but it is right & proper that we look at what went on & why to the extent that it is known & yes, have a whole lot of opinions!!! What you say about Reva, a few episodes, her imagining that Wheeler somehow fooled with the character of Reva just boggles the mind. Personally I LIKED Inside the Light & in general the special Wednesday episodes. although I fully admit some were great & some, oh, not so. The home rebuilding I also liked, in general. I do not remember it being in Sweeps. If youare right about that, another bungle!!!

And, here, is just one of the times when KZ's pov does not necessarily line up with facts. KZ was never used as a decoy. What they did lines up with things that have happened in other industries, like the airlines. The idea is that everyone is asked at the same, or close to the same, time, to make a sacrifice, by taking a pay cut THE SAME CUT ACROSS THE BOARD, basically, the younger actors didn't actually make enough money to be treated the same, but everyone else, same. The execs took their cuts first, up front. Then they took their sad pitch to the people. Every single person except one said yes. No bullying, no pressuring, no tricks, everything up front & above board. It was known all along that KZ was the only person to say no. But, make no mistake it was not known until she did it & said it. She writes as if they knew she would do & say what she did. Nothing could be further from the truth. No one tried to make it scandalous, it was on its own. Many fans looked at the situation & thought how unselfish so many people were being & wasn't that amazing & also loyal. Not much was discussed about KZ because after all, what could you say? Technically she had the right to do what she did. Full Stop. The End. But, I do not know anyone who thought she did it for the principle of the thing. If you had suggested that, people would have laughed. People who were talking about principles were talking about Jerry, Grant, Mikey, Beth, etc.

I so hated Malone at AW but then I learned that supposedly everything he pitched got shot down. So now I give him not a pass but some small amount of grace.